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Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi

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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2016-02-16, 11:56

Tim Wakefield wrote:I have a really good job with some hidden benefits (don't have to go to meijer much) which is better than most kids and besides sports betting, I don't spend a lot of money. Also have a second job in the summer in addition to my 40 hour caf job. Most of my pay checks go to rent and my bank account. I just paid for this last semester out of my checking account and have about ~12k in student loans thanks to tuition and my study abroad. My grandparents gave me a decent head start, but I've been more or less staying afloat on my own. It's pretty satisfying to me and a sense of pride that I wouldn't have it everything was free, I guess. Apart from disagreeing with the concept of the rich paying for it, I think it's important to know why you're at college and working hard to stay there.

You seem to struggle with a) macroeconomics (you seem to get micro at least) and b) the fact that everyone doesn't have the head starts you had.
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Post by Tim Wakefield 2016-02-16, 12:00

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:I have a really good job with some hidden benefits (don't have to go to meijer much) which is better than most kids and besides sports betting, I don't spend a lot of money. Also have a second job in the summer in addition to my 40 hour caf job. Most of my pay checks go to rent and my bank account. I just paid for this last semester out of my checking account and have about ~12k in student loans thanks to tuition and my study abroad. My grandparents gave me a decent head start, but I've been more or less staying afloat on my own. It's pretty satisfying to me and a sense of pride that I wouldn't have it everything was free, I guess. Apart from disagreeing with the concept of the rich paying for it, I think it's important to know why you're at college and working hard to stay there.

You seem to struggle with a) macroeconomics (you seem to get micro at least) and b) the fact that everyone doesn't have the head starts you had.

Luckily I'm not an economist. Just an average college kid with some opinions.

I get it about the head start. Love my grandparents to death for it, and I'm not saying everyone should just be thrown to the wolves and have to pay for everything themselves. But I'm far closer to that then Bernie's plan.
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Post by DWags 2016-02-16, 12:05

Tim Wakefield wrote:I have a really good job with some hidden benefits (don't have to go to meijer much) which is better than most kids and besides sports betting, I don't spend a lot of money. Also have a second job in the summer in addition to my 40 hour caf job. Most of my pay checks go to rent and my bank account. I just paid for this last semester out of my checking account and have about ~12k in student loans thanks to tuition and my study abroad. My grandparents gave me a decent head start that got me through freshman year, but I've been more or less staying afloat on my own. It's pretty satisfying to me and a sense of pride that I wouldn't have if everything was free, I guess. Apart from disagreeing with the concept of the rich paying for it, I think it's important to know why you're at college and working hard to stay there.

Bam.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2016-02-16, 12:08

Tim Wakefield wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

You seem to struggle with a) macroeconomics (you seem to get micro at least) and b) the fact that everyone doesn't have the head starts you had.

Luckily I'm not an economist. Just an average college kid with some opinions.

I get it about the head start. Love my grandparents to death for it, and I'm not saying everyone should just be thrown to the wolves. But I'm far closer to that then Bernie's plan.

What I'm getting at that you need to spend some time thinking about... College costs are out of control (no one would argue that) and it's getting to a point where it wont make sense for people to make the investment anymore. From a nationwide perspective, ignoring your individual situation, we can't allow things to get to such a point where people stop going to college because it doesn't actually pay off. We still need educated people to have a productive society. Even sociologists and other majors that are generally known for not paying well are still important and we do need them. If people stop going to college because they can't afford it and accept that financially they will be just as well off with out it, well that's no good for anybody.

Now, is the answer that everything should be free for everyone? Probably not. And let's be honest, even if bernie got elected, that's probably not what would happen. But, my point more is that if you think that the current system is sustainable in the long term... Well, that's incorrect.
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Post by Tim Wakefield 2016-02-16, 12:26

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:

Luckily I'm not an economist. Just an average college kid with some opinions.

I get it about the head start. Love my grandparents to death for it, and I'm not saying everyone should just be thrown to the wolves. But I'm far closer to that then Bernie's plan.

What I'm getting at that you need to spend some time thinking about... College costs are out of control (no one would argue that) and it's getting to a point where it wont make sense for people to make the investment anymore. From a nationwide perspective, ignoring your individual situation, we can't allow things to get to such a point where people stop going to college because it doesn't actually pay off. We still need educated people to have a productive society. Even sociologists and other majors that are generally known for not paying well are still important and we do need them. If people stop going to college because they can't afford it and accept that financially they will be just as well off with out it, well that's no good for anybody.

Now, is the answer that everything should be free for everyone? Probably not. And let's be honest, even if bernie got elected, that's probably not what would happen.But, my point more is that if you think that the current system is sustainable in the long term... Well, that's incorrect.

Not trying to be a dick but so far you've said that I struggle with macro economics (maybe true but don't think you needed to say it) and that I'm "incorrect" on this. I don't even know how you turned this into an argument. I just told you guys about my situation and that I fundamentally disagree with Bernie's policies. I have ZERO ideas about driving costs down. Never claimed to.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2016-02-16, 12:34

Tim Wakefield wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

What I'm getting at that you need to spend some time thinking about... College costs are out of control (no one would argue that) and it's getting to a point where it wont make sense for people to make the investment anymore. From a nationwide perspective, ignoring your individual situation, we can't allow things to get to such a point where people stop going to college because it doesn't actually pay off. We still need educated people to have a productive society. Even sociologists and other majors that are generally known for not paying well are still important and we do need them. If people stop going to college because they can't afford it and accept that financially they will be just as well off with out it, well that's no good for anybody.

Now, is the answer that everything should be free for everyone? Probably not. And let's be honest, even if bernie got elected, that's probably not what would happen.But, my point more is that if you think that the current system is sustainable in the long term... Well, that's incorrect.

Not trying to be a dick but so far you've said that I struggle with macro economics (maybe true but don't think you needed to say it) and that I'm "incorrect" on this. I don't even know how you turned this into an argument. I just told you guys about my situation and that I fundamentally disagree with Bernie's policies. I have ZERO ideas about driving costs down. Never claimed to.

The problem is that you have too much of a hard on for your own situation and you try to pretend that you exist in a vacuum. Which you do not. Good for you, glad it worked for you, that doesn't mean the system as is is sustainable.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2016-02-16, 12:35

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:

Not trying to be a dick but so far you've said that I struggle with macro economics (maybe true but don't think you needed to say it) and that I'm "incorrect" on this. I don't even know how you turned this into an argument. I just told you guys about my situation and that I fundamentally disagree with Bernie's policies. I have ZERO ideas about driving costs down. Never claimed to.

The problem is that you have too much of a hard on for your own situation and you try to pretend that you exist in a vacuum. Which you do not. Good for you, glad it worked for you, that doesn't mean the system as is is sustainable.
I can tell ya this.... I got a head start and still finished in the back.

of course, I wasn't worried.

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Post by xsanguine 2016-02-16, 12:35

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:

Luckily I'm not an economist. Just an average college kid with some opinions.

I get it about the head start. Love my grandparents to death for it, and I'm not saying everyone should just be thrown to the wolves. But I'm far closer to that then Bernie's plan.

College costs are out of control (no one would argue that) and it's getting to a point where it wont make sense for people to make the investment anymore.

So then don't make the investment.

If the investment doesn't make sense, don't make it. There's plenty of investments that can and do make sense.

But just because the investment doesn't make sense to you don't mean I should be forced to pitch in and pay for this bad investment.
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Post by Tim Wakefield 2016-02-16, 12:37

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:

Not trying to be a dick but so far you've said that I struggle with macro economics (maybe true but don't think you needed to say it) and that I'm "incorrect" on this. I don't even know how you turned this into an argument. I just told you guys about my situation and that I fundamentally disagree with Bernie's policies. I have ZERO ideas about driving costs down. Never claimed to.

The problem is that you have too much of a hard on for your own situation and you try to pretend that you exist in a vacuum. Which you do not. Good for you, glad it worked for you, that doesn't mean the system as is is sustainable.

You're like Robot Rubio with this "sustainable system" crap. Why do you keep saying it? I agree with you, and I never said that it is sustainable


Last edited by Tim Wakefield on 2016-02-16, 12:39; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2016-02-16, 12:38

xsanguine wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

College costs are out of control (no one would argue that) and it's getting to a point where it wont make sense for people to make the investment anymore.

So then don't make the investment.

If the investment doesn't make sense, don't make it. There's plenty of investments that can and do make sense.

But just because the investment doesn't make sense to you don't mean I should be forced to pitch in and pay for this bad investment.

But it CAN'T work like that long term. It just can't. Again, you're talking about individuals, I'm talking about society.

I know this isn't the case (yet, though I doubt it would ever get this bad) but to make and over the top example to make my point... what if it didn't make sense to make the investment to become a doctor? And what if everyone stopped doing that? Then what? We'll just sort of have to deal with getting sick and dying I guess.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2016-02-16, 12:39

Tim Wakefield wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

The problem is that you have too much of a hard on for your own situation and you try to pretend that you exist in a vacuum. Which you do not. Good for you, glad it worked for you, that doesn't mean the system as is is sustainable.

You're like Robot Rubio with this "sustainable system" crap. Why do you keep saying it? I never said that

So what do you want to happen with regards to college costs? Maybe I missed something.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2016-02-16, 12:40

as long as people who can play football and basketball get college paid for then my self-esteem will stay sufficiently intact.

GO GREEN!!
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Post by Tim Wakefield 2016-02-16, 12:41

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:

You're like Robot Rubio with this "sustainable system" crap. Why do you keep saying it? I never said that

So what do you want to happen with regards to college costs? Maybe I missed something.

I want them to go down. Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 2599972566 How? I never claimed to know. Like you said 10 times, it's pretty clear that the system is not sustainable in its current state.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2016-02-16, 12:43

Tim Wakefield wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

So what do you want to happen with regards to college costs? Maybe I missed something.

I want them to go down. Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 2599972566 How? I never claimed to know. Like you said 10 times, it's pretty clear that the system is not sustainable in its current state.

I was under the impression that you were saying everything was super good and that it should maintain its current path. My bad.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2016-02-16, 12:48

Tim Wakefield wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

So what do you want to happen with regards to college costs? Maybe I missed something.

I want them to go down.
Shocked
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Post by xsanguine 2016-02-16, 12:50

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
xsanguine wrote:

So then don't make the investment.

If the investment doesn't make sense, don't make it. There's plenty of investments that can and do make sense.

But just because the investment doesn't make sense to you don't mean I should be forced to pitch in and pay for this bad investment.

But it CAN'T work like that long term. It just can't. Again, you're talking about individuals, I'm talking about society.

I know this isn't the case (yet, though I doubt it would ever get this bad) but to make and over the top example to make my point... what if it didn't make sense to make the investment to become a doctor? And what if everyone stopped doing that? Then what? We'll just sort of have to deal with getting sick and dying I guess.

Well if everyone were sick and dying becoming a doctor would make a great investment. Supply and demand. There's a reason why something is or isn't a good/bad investment... It's not a reason that just falls out of the sky.

If college has become such that the costs do not justify the demand why make a bad issue even worse by not allowing the market to regulate the cost of it and forcing everyone to subsidize a bad investment?
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Post by Turtleneck 2016-02-16, 12:54

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:

I want them to go down.
Shocked

Are we still talking about the costs of college?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2016-02-16, 12:56

Turtleneck wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: Shocked

Are we still talking about the costs of college?
I suppose some people do what they need to in order to pay for college.. Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 2599972566

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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2016-02-16, 12:57

xsanguine wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

But it CAN'T work like that long term. It just can't. Again, you're talking about individuals, I'm talking about society.

I know this isn't the case (yet, though I doubt it would ever get this bad) but to make and over the top example to make my point... what if it didn't make sense to make the investment to become a doctor? And what if everyone stopped doing that? Then what? We'll just sort of have to deal with getting sick and dying I guess.

Well if everyone were sick and dying becoming a doctor would make a great investment. Supply and demand. There's a reason why something is or isn't a good/bad investment... It's not a reason that just falls out of the sky.

If college has become such that the costs do not justify the demand why make a bad issue even worse by not allowing the market to regulate the cost of it and forcing everyone to subsidize a bad investment?

Ah, good point. If there were a lack of doctors then doctor wages would go up and it would make sense to make that investment again.

But, when that happens, the cost of seeing your doctor is going to go up. So when you go to the doctor, in effect, didn't you just pay for their college?

So, getting away from doctors, what about all other goods? They all require college educated people to get to you. At this point, businesses have been able to get away with not paying more because supply and demand hasn't forced them to. But, if it did because people don't make the investment, suddenly their wages go up and the costs to you for basically everything goes up. Aka, you just paid for their college. The only question you're asking is when you pay for their college, not if.
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Post by Guest 2016-02-16, 12:58

Get an associates degree at community college, go to trade school. Go to community college for two years before entering university and you saved yourself like 40000 grand.  Work in the retail industry.  Every one doesn't deserve to be able to go to college. Most are dumb shits who skipped community college and then complain about paying for 4 years at university.  We don't need more people with college degrees, we need more people in other areas of work. The whole college is too expensive, tough shit.   I want to own a private plane but I understand if I buy one ill be in a bunch of debt.  The fuck is all this liberal shit about? Anybody understand how the world works? You think when Michigan was booming people had college degrees? Get the fuck outta here.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2016-02-16, 13:00

would fewer people in college mean more or less goatee-bedazzled jort wearers at MSU tailgate parties?

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Post by Tim Wakefield 2016-02-16, 13:01

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

Are we still talking about the costs of college?
I suppose some people do what they need to in order to pay for college.. Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 2599972566

Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 502811600
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Post by xsanguine 2016-02-16, 13:11

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
xsanguine wrote:

Well if everyone were sick and dying becoming a doctor would make a great investment. Supply and demand. There's a reason why something is or isn't a good/bad investment... It's not a reason that just falls out of the sky.

If college has become such that the costs do not justify the demand why make a bad issue even worse by not allowing the market to regulate the cost of it and forcing everyone to subsidize a bad investment?

Ah, good point. If there were a lack of doctors then doctor wages would go up and it would make sense to make that investment again.

But, when that happens, the cost of seeing your doctor is going to go up. So when you go to the doctor, in effect, didn't you just pay for their college?

So, getting away from doctors, what about all other goods? They all require college educated people to get to you. At this point, businesses have been able to get away with not paying more because supply and demand hasn't forced them to. But, if it did because people don't make the investment, suddenly their wages go up and the costs to you for basically everything goes up. Aka, you just paid for their college. The only question you're asking is when you pay for their college, not if.

Well you're paying for their abilities they learned through college or medical school or whatever. They then choose whether to pay for college (if they took loans) or to go to Atlantic City with an 8 ball and escort for the weekend. If they paid their way while they went through college it's already paid for. You're paying them for their abilities, either way.

If those goods require a college degree then people will get a college degree to fill those roles. If those roles begin to pay less and less to the point where roles that don't require college education start to pay the same... Then people are going to see they don't need a college degree. There's no existential rule that indicates college is "required". We as a society (the market) determined that and employers determined that. But for whatever reason jobs requiring college degrees are paying less... Could be the workforce talent isn't as good, could be the jobs are just requiring degrees because everyone else has also despite the job not being that difficult. A myriad of reasons.
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Post by Stoops21 2016-02-16, 13:11

SpartanDawgs265 wrote:Get an associates degree at community college, go to trade school. Go to community college for two years before entering university and you saved yourself like 40000 grand.  Work in the retail industry.  Every one doesn't deserve to be able to go to college. Most are dumb shits who skipped community college and then complain about paying for 4 years at university.  We don't need more people with college degrees, we need more people in other areas of work. The whole college is too expensive, tough shit.   I want to own a private plane but I understand if I buy one ill be in a bunch of debt.  The fuck is all this liberal shit about? Anybody understand how the world works? You think when Michigan was booming people had college degrees? Get the fuck outta here.

Why did you go to college? To sit around for 7 years?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2016-02-16, 13:12

xsanguine wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Ah, good point. If there were a lack of doctors then doctor wages would go up and it would make sense to make that investment again.

But, when that happens, the cost of seeing your doctor is going to go up. So when you go to the doctor, in effect, didn't you just pay for their college?

So, getting away from doctors, what about all other goods? They all require college educated people to get to you. At this point, businesses have been able to get away with not paying more because supply and demand hasn't forced them to. But, if it did because people don't make the investment, suddenly their wages go up and the costs to you for basically everything goes up. Aka, you just paid for their college. The only question you're asking is when you pay for their college, not if.

Well you're paying for their abilities they learned through college or medical school or whatever. They then choose whether to pay for college (if they took loans) or to go to Atlantic City with an 8 ball and escort for the weekend. If they paid their way while they went through college it's already paid for. You're paying them for their abilities, either way.

If those goods require a college degree then people will get a college degree to fill those roles. If those roles begin to pay less and less to the point where roles that don't require college education start to pay the same... Then people are going to see they don't need a college degree. There's no existential rule that indicates college is "required". We as a society (the market) determined that and employers determined that. But for whatever reason jobs requiring college degrees are paying less... Could be the workforce talent isn't as good, could be the jobs are just requiring degrees because everyone else has also despite the job not being that difficult. A myriad of reasons.
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Post by Guest 2016-02-16, 13:17

Stoops21 wrote:
SpartanDawgs265 wrote:Get an associates degree at community college, go to trade school. Go to community college for two years before entering university and you saved yourself like 40000 grand.  Work in the retail industry.  Every one doesn't deserve to be able to go to college. Most are dumb shits who skipped community college and then complain about paying for 4 years at university.  We don't need more people with college degrees, we need more people in other areas of work. The whole college is too expensive, tough shit.   I want to own a private plane but I understand if I buy one ill be in a bunch of debt.  The fuck is all this liberal shit about? Anybody understand how the world works? You think when Michigan was booming people had college degrees? Get the fuck outta here.

Why did you go to college? To sit around for 7 years?

Have never been enrolled in classes at MSU for even close to 7 years. If I didn't have money, I would get off my ass and go to trade school. I would become a welder, a stone mason, a plumber and make more money then most make with a college degree. However, making college more affordable is a convent excuse to point of the laziness of people for not exploring other routes. There are tons of jobs that don't require a bachelors degree which pays way above minimum wage. The University degree route isn't that much more effective when compared to cheaper alternatives. However, every one thinks they deserve to have the American dream and get that degree which will automatically make them 300,000 a year. God Bless liberals.


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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2016-02-16, 13:21

xsanguine wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Ah, good point. If there were a lack of doctors then doctor wages would go up and it would make sense to make that investment again.

But, when that happens, the cost of seeing your doctor is going to go up. So when you go to the doctor, in effect, didn't you just pay for their college?

So, getting away from doctors, what about all other goods? They all require college educated people to get to you. At this point, businesses have been able to get away with not paying more because supply and demand hasn't forced them to. But, if it did because people don't make the investment, suddenly their wages go up and the costs to you for basically everything goes up. Aka, you just paid for their college. The only question you're asking is when you pay for their college, not if.

Well you're paying for their abilities they learned through college or medical school or whatever. They then choose whether to pay for college (if they took loans) or to go to Atlantic City with an 8 ball and escort for the weekend. If they paid their way while they went through college it's already paid for. You're paying them for their abilities, either way.

If those goods require a college degree then people will get a college degree to fill those roles. If those roles begin to pay less and less to the point where roles that don't require college education start to pay the same... Then people are going to see they don't need a college degree. There's no existential rule that indicates college is "required". We as a society (the market) determined that and employers determined that. But for whatever reason jobs requiring college degrees are paying less... Could be the workforce talent isn't as good, could be the jobs are just requiring degrees because everyone else has also despite the job not being that difficult. A myriad of reasons.


I'm glad it makes you feel better to say that you're paying for their abilities instead of paying for their college. Personally, I'd I have to pay an extra $100 for something I really don't care what you want to call it. Still $100 out of my pocket.

People don't have a God given ability to do accounting or packaging or sociology. A majority of the jobs were talking about really do require education beyond our broken high school educations. Your myriad of reasons ignores the most obvious one, crazy amounts of greed, but that's a whole other thing.

Also, paying your way through college at this point is either impossible for most, or it soon will be. That phrase is so 1972. At this point you either have a) a rich family b) lots of student debt or c) a fantastic set of tits and flexible morals.
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Post by xsanguine 2016-02-16, 13:22

College makes sense in a lot of ways if you go into the right field. Others, not so much. My best friend dropped out of high school in the 10th grade but he got into an industry and just worked his way up and is making close to $150k a year in hotel management in NYC. He has to fire people with college degrees in hospitality (that job does NOT require a degree) for being late and screwing off, shit you'd think would be reserved for those orphan heathens that couldn't muster up a measly $20k a year...

Like the Constitution (that's for turtleneck) a degree is just a piece of paper. Colleges can be slept through for many degrees so it's no surprise their value is sinking. I do know some people with degrees that make a lot of money (though I have noticed not in the industry their major would have put them in) but I know a lot of people that went to trade school that are making tons of money. Mike Rowe makes a lot of good points in regards to this, I believe.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2016-02-16, 13:24

xsanguine wrote:College makes sense in a lot of ways if you go into the right field. Others, not so much. My best friend dropped out of high school in the 10th grade but he got into an industry and just worked his way up and is making close to $150k a year in hotel management in NYC. He has to fire people with college degrees in hospitality (that job does NOT require a degree) for being late and screwing off, shit you'd think would be reserved for those orphan heathens that couldn't muster up a measly $20k a year...

Like the Constitution (that's for turtleneck) a degree is just a piece of paper. Colleges can be slept through for many degrees so it's no surprise their value is sinking. I do know some people with degrees that make a lot of money (though I have noticed not in the industry their major would have put them in) but I know a lot of people that went to trade school that are making tons of money. Mike Rowe makes a lot of good points in regards to this, I believe.

There are some that don't require it. Hospitality is a good example. But for the most part, they really do need those degrees, and we really do need people to do those jobs even though they don't pay well.
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Post by Rocinante 2016-02-16, 13:26

Travis Travis Travis... The market will fix everything, don't you know?
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Post by xsanguine 2016-02-16, 13:29

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
xsanguine wrote:

Well you're paying for their abilities they learned through college or medical school or whatever. They then choose whether to pay for college (if they took loans) or to go to Atlantic City with an 8 ball and escort for the weekend. If they paid their way while they went through college it's already paid for. You're paying them for their abilities, either way.

If those goods require a college degree then people will get a college degree to fill those roles. If those roles begin to pay less and less to the point where roles that don't require college education start to pay the same... Then people are going to see they don't need a college degree. There's no existential rule that indicates college is "required". We as a society (the market) determined that and employers determined that. But for whatever reason jobs requiring college degrees are paying less... Could be the workforce talent isn't as good, could be the jobs are just requiring degrees because everyone else has also despite the job not being that difficult. A myriad of reasons.


I'm glad it makes you feel better to say that you're paying for their abilities instead of paying for their college. Personally, I'd I have to pay an extra $100 for something I really don't care what you want to call it. Still $100 out of my pocket.

People don't have a God given ability to do accounting or packaging or sociology. A majority of the jobs were talking about really do require education beyond our broken high school educations. Your myriad of reasons ignores the most obvious one, crazy amounts of greed, but that's a whole other thing.

Also, paying your way through college at this point is either impossible for most, or it soon will be. That phrase is so 1972. At this point you either have a) a rich family b) lots of student debt or c) a fantastic set of tits and flexible morals.

It doesn't make me feel better, I don't really care. If the cost justifies me seeing them to fix my ailment I don't give a shit what they spend or spent that money on. That seems pretty petty, Travis.

That's true, no one has a God given ability to do those things. But does it really cost $50k+ to learn to do those things? Maybe it does in some cases, but maybe it doesn't... That's for the market to find out and the responsibility of the individual undertaking such an expensive investment to do their due diligence regarding. Like I was just stating about my friend... He doesn't even have a high school diploma and he is giving people write ups and firing people that spent over 50k for a degree in something he is excelling at because they can't show up on time or can't look presentable on a consistent basis. I don't want to subsidize that individual's investment... That's not a good investment for me, why am I supposed to do that for them?

As to the last point... Don't go to college. Go to a trade school or do what a lot of people do and get into a good industry and learn it from the ground up... If you find yourself at a point where to go higher you need a degree and it makes financial sense (like that company pays for some of it, for example) then you go and do it. You'll learn far more in your first year or two on the job than you'd ever learn in college.

Now that we have that out of the way. Wanna spoon?
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Post by Stoops21 2016-02-16, 13:49

SpartanDawgs265 wrote:
Stoops21 wrote:

Why did you go to college? To sit around for 7 years?

Have never been enrolled in classes at MSU for even close to 7 years. If I didn't have money, I would get off my ass and go to trade school. I would become a welder, a stone mason, a plumber and make more money then most make with a college degree. However, making college more affordable is a convent excuse to point of the laziness of people for not exploring other routes. There are tons of jobs that don't require a bachelors degree which pays way above minimum wage. The University degree route isn't that much more effective when compared to cheaper alternatives. However, every one thinks they deserve to have the American dream and get that degree which will automatically make them 300,000 a year. God Bless liberals.

I don't think everyone thinks just because they have a degree they should be handed an easy life. I think people are starting to realize with rising costs that alternatives are just as good if not better. If college costs aren't fixed I think we will see a major shift in the next few years in attendance and those that actually complete their 4 years
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Post by Turtleneck 2016-02-16, 14:07

It is a really bad idea to treat education like a commodity. It is not a bag of rice or pork belly. However, we have been moving in that direction for some time...and then a percentage of the population, although educated, thinks this guy would be a good leader...

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Post by Guest 2016-02-16, 16:28

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
You seem to struggle with a) macroeconomics (you seem to get micro at least) and b) the fact that everyone doesn't have the head starts you had.

What I'm getting at that you need to spend some time thinking about....College costs are out of control (no one would argue that) and it's getting to a point where it wont make sense for people to make the investment anymore.

Perhaps you could go all macro on us and drop a little explanation for this?  You seem to think the fact that college costs are rocketing is inevitable.   Would there be any correlation in the amount of federal $$ poured into education?   Are profs being paid more?   More administrators?  College costs didn't just go through the roof by magic - something drove them there.   What were the factors and can they be reversed?

Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 O-COLLEGE-COSTS-570

Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 2013-12-06-Collegecosts

Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 Blog_higher_ed_costs

Is federal aid driving up tuition costs? Economists say so.



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Post by Guest 2016-02-16, 16:33

Reynolds: Fire administrators to fix higher ed

University presidents are a pretty well compensated bunch. As Bruni notes, Yale paid its former president Richard Levin an $8.5 million "additional retirement benefit." Shirley Ann Jackson, president of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, gets $7 million a year. E. Gordon Gee of the Ohio State University got a $6 million retirement bonus after earning about $2 million a year as president.

At California Polytechnic University-Pomona, for instance, the number of administrators grew 221% from 1975 to 2008. Administrators in the California State University system now outnumber faculty 12,183 to 12,019. In 2010, the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor employed 49% more full-time administrative and professional staff than full-time faculty. Nationwide, the number of full-time administrators per 100 students at leading universities grew by 39% between 1993 and 2007, while the number of employees engaged in teaching, research, or service grew only 18%, according to the Goldwater Institute.

Even when schools plead poverty and reduce faculty payrolls, transferring teaching duties to low-paid part time adjuncts, they keep hiring administrators. As a study from the New England Center for Investigative Reporting and the American Institutes for Research discovered, over the past 25 years the ratio of non-academic to academic positions, at both public and private universities, has doubled. When asked, college presidents blamed funding cuts and talk about efforts to cut costs. But the "funding cut" story is a "fairy tale":

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Post by Turtleneck 2016-02-16, 16:51

LooseGoose wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

What I'm getting at that you need to spend some time thinking about....College costs are out of control (no one would argue that) and it's getting to a point where it wont make sense for people to make the investment anymore.

Perhaps you could go all macro on us and drop a little explanation for this?  You seem to think the fact that college costs are rocketing is inevitable.   Would there be any correlation in the amount of federal $$ poured into education?   Are profs being paid more?   More administrators?  College costs didn't just go through the roof by magic - something drove them there.   What were the factors and can they be reversed?

Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 O-COLLEGE-COSTS-570

Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 2013-12-06-Collegecosts

Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 Blog_higher_ed_costs

Is federal aid driving up tuition costs? Economists say so.




Paying professors more? Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 1494614055 Rapid expansion of administration? Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi - Page 2 3003718628
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Post by Vlad 2016-02-16, 17:32

My 19 year old says she agrees with Sanders on social issues but with Trump on immigration and refugees.
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Post by xsanguine 2016-02-16, 18:09

Turtleneck wrote:She could study the social sciences or humanities. This election,
and most of the way the general public seems to go about understanding politics, society and economics, is a pretty good example of the failure of the liberal arts education in this country.

bounce
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Post by xsanguine 2016-02-16, 18:10

Vlad wrote:My 19 year old says she agrees with Sanders on social issues but with Trump on immigration and refugees.

Jesus fucking Christ.....
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Post by Turtleneck 2016-02-16, 18:11

Vlad wrote:My 19 year old says she agrees with Sanders on social issues but with Trump on immigration and refugees.

She sounds like a bit of a populist.
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