2017/18 Football Thread

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by gHost Spartan on 2017-06-11, 07:48

DWags wrote:
Nordic wrote:Obviously more to the story and I doubt MSU can say anything. We aren't turning away DL unless there are reasons. I'm sure Solari will get to the bottom of it  Rolling Eyes .

That said, people were putting way too much stock in Peat. Similar to Copeland last year. He hasn't played a down of D1 football and hasn't played football in over a year.

Yep. Fuck it. We'll play with who we got. We'll be fine. Keep trimming fat and let's go.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by DWags on 2017-06-11, 08:40

gHost Spartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Yep. Fuck it. We'll play with who we got. We'll be fine. Keep trimming fat and let's go.


Difference is, we all know we're not fielding a big ten champ team next year, and, unless you're a complete moron, nobody is saying that will happen. What has to happen is you get rid of the bullshit and build around the talent you have. And we do have some.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-11, 08:46

We're going to win a B1GTen title this year.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by DWags on 2017-06-11, 09:11

LooseGoose wrote:We're going to win a B1GTen title this year.

If we do I owe you a bottle of scotch. $300<<. If we don't I want a cherry pie.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-11, 09:47

DWags wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:We're going to win a B1GTen title this year.

If we do I owe you a bottle of scotch. $300<<. If we don't I want a cherry pie.

We're on. But mostly I just wanted to be a complete moron.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-11, 11:03

Floyd Robertson wrote:No idea what in the actual fuck is going on here.


From 810Spartan.....usually a solid source.

Long, long story but he wasn't accepted back into MSU. He told the coaches his grades were in order, when in reality they were not.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Floyd Robertson on 2017-06-11, 19:13

Tim Allen‏ @TAllenSparty  58m58 minutes ago
2017 Spartan Freshman. On-Campus and ready to start the process- 2010- 2013- 2015 BIG Champions #EarnTheJersey.
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Nordic on 2017-06-11, 21:31

Floyd Robertson wrote: Tim Allen‏ @TAllenSparty  58m58 minutes ago
2017 Spartan Freshman. On-Campus and ready to start the process- 2010- 2013- 2015 BIG Champions #EarnTheJersey.

Are those the new kickers?
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Floyd Robertson on 2017-06-11, 21:45

Nordic wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote: Tim Allen‏ @TAllenSparty  58m58 minutes ago
2017 Spartan Freshman. On-Campus and ready to start the process- 2010- 2013- 2015 BIG Champions #EarnTheJersey.

Are those the new kickers?
All except for Rocky.
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Nordic on 2017-06-11, 22:38

Rocky 4 Heisman
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-13, 12:53

CB Vayante Copeland no longer with Michigan State

As a redshirt freshman in 2015, Copeland started the first two games of the season before suffering a fractured vertebra against Oregon.

He played in seven games last year, including five starts, but suffered a broken foot during a midseason practice and missed the final five games of the season. He made 36 tackles and recorded an interception in those games.

Copeland participated in Michigan State's spring game on April 1. Earlier this year, he received a third chance to enter a court-sponsored diversionary program after being charged with marijuana possession in 2015.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-06-13, 12:58

Can we talk about how fat and slow he was in the Spring game.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-13, 13:07

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Can we talk about how fat and slow he was in the Spring game.

Too many munchies.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-06-13, 13:43

Since we're so short on bodies, I'm willing to suit up and play, but you guys aren't going to like what you see.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Floyd Robertson on 2017-06-13, 13:51

tGreenWay wrote:Since we're so short on bodies, I'm willing to suit up and play, but you guys aren't going to like what you see.

This is one of the messages playing in Skandalaris (per Harns). Seems appropriate here.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Death Roe on 2017-06-13, 14:02

-- Michael Scott

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Where to start?
I mean, the first thing with pea soup is the texture, okay?
I've had watery pea soup, it's AWFUL.
Uh, I've had gelatinous, thick pea soup, it's TERRIBLE.
Pea soup, much like clam chowder, needs to have that consistency first, that you can stand the spoon up in it, but the spoon soon tilts, that's the consistency you want.
Number two: Uh, pea soup on it's own can be a little bland. It wants, uh, a fairly aggressive peppering and salting.
Number three: Pea soup needs a fine dice of ham. Not bacon, not any other meat, not turkey. It needs a fine dice of ham.
Uh, number four: Uh, pea soup scorches easily. You don't wanna heat it on a high heat. You wanna heat it on medium low, just until it's warmed through.
Uh, number five: Pea soup is best made, uh, by hand, not out of a Campbell's can. And the key to pea soup, you want a ham bone, uh, for the stock you make, uh, to, to boil your peas.
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by steveschneider on 2017-06-13, 14:30

DWags wrote:
gHost Spartan wrote:


Difference is, we all know we're not fielding a big ten champ team next year, and, unless you're a complete moron, nobody is saying that will happen. What has to happen is you get rid of the bullshit and build around the talent you have. And we do have some.

You are correct.

Here's my question, what are the positives that well help this team improve from last seasons 3-9?

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Nordic on 2017-06-13, 14:52

steveschneider wrote:
DWags wrote:

Difference is, we all know we're not fielding a big ten champ team next year, and, unless you're a complete moron, nobody is saying that will happen.   What has to happen is you get rid of the bullshit and build around the talent you have. And we do have some.  

You are correct.

Here's my question, what are the positives that well help this team improve from last seasons 3-9?


TOC won't be the starting QB
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by DWags on 2017-06-13, 15:16

Here's the deal, and I hate doing this on June 13th, but I think our offensive line will be better this year. If we stay healthy, we'll be able to get back to running the ball more effectively. Why that's important is that we will then be able to open the field up for Lewerke this year. Jackson is going to be damn good, pray that Davis and Rison have good years, but what I hear about Rison is that he might be able to contribute, Chambers too. We'll see, . We'll need a tight end to step up but our backfield including our QB will be much better next year. Chewins, Higby, Allen and Beedle will hold their own, guaranteed. If they get through the season injury free, I like this offenses chances. I really like Lewerke's arm. He can make wide side passes, he can throw it down field, and we'll see if the game slows down for him a bit.

I really like our defensive tackles. I think they could be dynamic. Our LB's still have a nut in Frey at Sam, and Batchie and Dowell did show some signs, plus the older you get the more you recognize and the slower the game goes. I know everyone thinks our DB's are going to be hard to work with, but honestly I see Layne as a potentially great corner. Lets pray Scott is able to step up and lets hope here for no injuries agaiin. Our safeties concern me, and I hope their lack of speed is compensated by what seems to be a fairly high football IQ but face it, there is no experience for speed. Miller, and Morrisey and Willis wont light up any major big ten boards, but they seem servicable and a year really makes a difference. Lets skip defensive ends as far as getting fired up about, but lets see what kind of off season cooper and Alexander had, and if Dantonio says Cooper is a no go, we're fucked there.

I'm thinking 7-5, better experience, seeing the field more. I'm not too worried, but this team will be able to put some W's up. If injuries happen, I'm going to all the home games, and staying at my tailgate the whole time.

I like our chances, i only say 7 to temper my enthusiasm, but this team has talent. 2018, I really like.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by steveschneider on 2017-06-13, 15:42

DWags wrote:Here's the deal, and I hate doing this on June 13th, but I think our offensive line will be better this year. If we stay healthy, we'll be able to get back to running the ball more effectively. Why that's important is that we will then be able to open the field up for Lewerke this year. Jackson is going to be damn good, pray that Davis and Rison have good years, but what I hear about Rison is that he might be able to contribute, Chambers too. We'll see, . We'll need a tight end to step up but our backfield including our QB will be much better next year. Chewins, Higby, Allen and Beedle will hold their own, guaranteed. If they get through the season injury free, I like this offenses chances. I really like Lewerke's arm. He can make wide side passes, he can throw it down field, and we'll see if the game slows down for him a bit.

I really like our defensive tackles. I think they could be dynamic. Our LB's still have a nut in Frey at Sam, and Batchie and Dowell did show some signs, plus the older you get the more you recognize and the slower the game goes. I know everyone thinks our DB's are going to be hard to work with, but honestly I see Layne as a potentially great corner. Lets pray Scott is able to step up and lets hope here for no injuries agaiin. Our safeties concern me, and I hope their lack of speed is compensated by what seems to be a fairly high football IQ but face it, there is no experience for speed. Miller, and Morrisey and Willis wont light up any major big ten boards, but they seem servicable and a year really makes a difference. Lets skip defensive ends as far as getting fired up about, but lets see what kind of off season cooper and Alexander had, and if Dantonio says Cooper is a no go, we're fucked there.

I'm thinking 7-5, better experience, seeing the field more. I'm not too worried, but this team will be able to put some W's up. If injuries happen, I'm going to all the home games, and staying at my tailgate the whole time.

I like our chances, i only say 7 to temper my enthusiasm, but this team has talent. 2018, I really like.

+1 for well informed post and solid opinion.

What about our staff? I've read that our offense is 'stale' and predictable. Does that concern you at all? Are there any areas on the coaching staff we need to improve
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-06-13, 15:51

Wild card at corner - TJ Harrell

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Herbie Green on 2017-06-13, 16:08

I think the front 7 is the most important factor to having a successful season and that appears to be the biggest weakness or question.  If you cant stop the run or pressure the qb then you are going to be a worthless team.  
It seems rare to produce talent out of nowhere on the defensive line and I am not looking forward to watching more mullets and tattoed linebackers chasing ball carriers in the secondary.
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Nordic on 2017-06-13, 17:19

steveschneider wrote:
DWags wrote:

Difference is, we all know we're not fielding a big ten champ team next year, and, unless you're a complete moron, nobody is saying that will happen.   What has to happen is you get rid of the bullshit and build around the talent you have. And we do have some.  

You are correct.

Here's my question, what are the positives that well help this team improve from last seasons 3-9?


More serious outlook....

Offense: Improved from Last Year / Average in the BIG
QB: Much Improved from Last Year / Average in the BIG
There is lots of debate on whether the OL was the issue or TOC.  IMO the OL was third on the list of positional issues behind the DL & QB. TOC is a gritty competitor, but he lacked vision and couldn't throw the ball downfield (insert Nigel posting a youtube video of RJ Shelton vs. Indiana). We can argue this till we are blue in the face, but I don't think anyone would say that TOC was an adequate QB. Lewerke stats don't look much better (actually they are worse), but he was r-Fr vs. r-Sr.  If he is no better than TOC and doesn't continue to grow, yeah, we are in trouble.  I can't quantify Lewerke's performance with stats, but he looked like he could see the field and deliver the ball where it needed to go. It is unfair, but he if I'm doing a comparison it would be Cousin's without the arm strength (which is TBD).  Based on the limited reps, he looks to have a good feel for the game, good pocket presence, decent scrambler and made the right reads/put the ball where it needed to be.
RB: Same as Last Year / Above Average to Elite in the BIG
We have the same 3 dudes as last year.  Conventional thought would be another year under their belt and they should be better. I'll call it even.
WR: Unknown / Above Average potential
The lose of Corley is big from a talent perspective. He showed why he was a big time recruit last year making some great catches. That said, I can't say I will miss his on-the-field demeanor. RJ turned into solid+ performer, mainly out of necessity.  FDIII and to a lesser extent Stewart underwhelmed/disappointed. They'll need to be better or get passed by.  Jackson looks like a stud if he stays healthy. We'll need to see how he catches the ball downfield, but he has the look of a playmaker. I really liked Layne in the spring game.  I would love to see him stick at WR. A lot of unknowns, but promising youth at WR.
TE: Far Worse / Below Average
Price had a bad year. He dropped some key passes and his pass blocking never improved. Lyles was steady, but also plateaued. Even so, they were an above average group.  I find it disturbing that Sokol hasn't seen more minutes so far. Yes we had depth, but he is a big athletic kid that should of been catching balls by his Sophomore year.  He was Wing T QB in HS. I would love to see them use him as an H-back. Behind him are even more young unknowns.
OL: Improved / Average to Above Average
The OL has been a favorite whipping boy the last few years. But lets look at this logically, not emotionally.  Injuries have been a major problem. 2015 had countless line combos, including Jack Allen at LT. Call it an excuse, I'll call it reality. Kodi Keiler was a walking injury, Machado was a disaster and Beedle at tackle was a fail. People love to rip on Staten, but look what he had to work around in 2015 and with in 2016.  Still they only gave up 21 sacks in 2015 & 26 sacks in 2016.  Not great, not awful, pretty average.  Obv run blocking was below average. If you take a deep look at the OL roster, it has the potential to be the biggest OL we've had. Maybe not in 2017, but 2018 this line should be ripe.  We have more 6-6 big wide bodies on the roster than I can remember. Guys like Chewins and Campbell still need to fill out and 2017 will be a bit of a learning curve. But I expect it will be better than last year (of course I said this last year too).  The fact that Campbell is winning the RT spot as a r-Fr, instead of having a stop gap like Machado or Beedle is a good sign. Beedle as a guard should be fine, he has a big ass.

Defense: Similar to last year /  Average in the BIG
DE: Worse than last year / Far below Average in the BIG
The single biggest position issue with the team last year was the DL, more specifically at DE.  Not even worth recapping last year, I think we can all agree it was atrocious.  After the continued loses of young DEs, I don't see it getting better and who knows about Cooper & Bowers. I'm not buying the Willekes and double Alexander hype. They are playing out of necessity.  It would be a good story if walk-ons were cracking the 2-deep without all the attrition we've had... but that is not the case. God I hope I am wrong here.
DT: Better / Average to Above Average
I'm not sure they are elite category, but the combo of R.Williams and Panasuik has the potential to be really good. Panasuik got abused early on, no surprise, he was a frosh. But started holding his own later in the year. I fully expect him to become a dominate player.  Jones should be the 3rd man in the rotation. Really need a 4th & 5th man to step up and put the D on their back. I'm not sure that person exists on the roster, however.
LB: Same as Last Year / Average to Above Average
I've talked a lot about Frey. By far the toughest SOB on our team. Problem is, he is simply not big or fast enough to be an every down LB. But it is what it is. Reshke is a lose, but barely played last year. Bullough is a lose, but he didn't exactly have the Sr year many were expecting. Bachie looked really good when he was thrown into the fire against Maryland. He should be solid. Dowell seemed to regress last year. I expect that to reverse in 2017. But again he is another smallish LB, couple his size with Frey and we are simply too small at LB for my tastes. But far from the biggest issue. Plenty of depth. Hopefully one of the young kids is a banger and rotates with Frey/Dowell at the OLB spots.
CB: No fucking clue
Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of the CBs so I'm not even going to try.  Layne looked good last year, but I would love to see him at WR. Copeland was below average last year and looked awful in the spring game, so whatever.
S: Unknown to Better / Unknown to Average
Nicholson got a bad rap IMO. He was one of our best tacklers last year (much improved from 2015). He played well in the box, maybe not so much outside of it. I tried to cut Cox some slack. Safety is by far the hardest position to play in our quarters D. They have the most reads and responsibilities and when they fuck up, it's going to look really bad. And Cox looked really bad a lot last year. That said, I don't see how we could be worse, especially from a coverage perspective. What Morrison/Miller/Dowell/Willis lack in athleticism compared to Montae/Cox hopefully they make up in just being in the right position most of the time.  Call this one another incomplete/wait and see.

Special Teams: Same / Average
Underated aspect of why we fell so hard. Sadler was an absolute machine at dropping balls inside the 20. That was huge for our defense. Hartbarger seemed to get better last year, maybe I'm just mis-remembering. Touchback % has also been way down the last two years.  Gieger was solid. Made some big kicks, missed some that he should have made.  No idea on Cronin...if I recall he didn't look that great in the spring game...I could be wrong. The fact that they brought in 3 kids this offseason is not exactly encouraging. Hopefully one of them can kick it into the end zone. As far as returns goes, you can blame Snyder till your blue in the face, but this is a Dantonio philosophical issue. He'll sacrifice setting up a long return for fielding the punt cleanly and not turning it over. Unless we stumble upon Mel Gray in recruiting, this isn't going to change.

Overall: I had been pegging 2018 as the year we get back to contending for a BIG title. The OL will have matured, we would have a two-year starting QB and the young DL talent will would of been in their 3rd year. All the makings of a championship caliber team. However, the attrition at DE is a major blow to this theory.  Not really sure what to think of our long term future now. DL is the single most impactful position in college football IMO (more important that OL and QB) and DE is a major fucking problem now and in the future. For 2017, we'll be right on that 6-6 edge. Think about all the close games that just seemed to slip away in the 2nd half. That hasn't been a norm.  Last year was also the first year we were a negative in the turnover margin.  The previous 3 years were Top 5 in turnover margin. Correct those two things alone and we win a couple more games. Add in better QB /OL play and that is a couple more. The D is going to struggle. We won't be able to grind out wins like the past. I think it is kind of funny all the people on here or tRCMB saying they would take 6-6 or 7-5, but you know damn well as soon as we lose our first game, fans will be calling for calling for coaches heads. Should be a fun ride!


Last edited by Nordic on 2017-06-13, 17:35; edited 5 times in total
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-13, 17:25

Nordic wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

You are correct.

Here's my question, what are the positives that well help this team improve from last seasons 3-9?


More serious outlook....

Offense: Improved from Last Year / Average in the BIG
QB: Much Improved from Last Year / Average in the BIG
There is lots of debate on whether the OL was the issue or TOC.  IMO the OL was third on the list of positional issues behind the DL & QB. TOC is a gritty competitor, but he lacked vision and couldn't throw the ball downfield (insert Nigel posting a youtube video of RJ Shelton vs. Indiana). We can argue this till we are blue in the face, but I don't think anyone would say that TOC was an adequate QB. Lewerke stats don't look much better (actually they are worse), but he was r-Fr vs. r-Sr.  If he is no better than TOC and doesn't continue to grow, yeah, we are in trouble.  I can't quantify Lewerke's performance with stats, but he looked like he could see the field and deliver the ball where it needed to go. It is unfair, but he if I'm doing a comparison it would be Cousin's without the arm strength (which is TBD).  Based on the limited reps, he looks to have a good feel for the game, good pocket presence, decent scrambler and made the right reads/put the ball where it needed to be.
RB: Same as Last Year / Above Average to Elite in the BIG
We have the same 3 dudes as last year.  Conventional thought would be another year under their belt and they should be better. I'll call it even.
WR: Unknown / Above Average potential
The lose of Corley is big from a talent perspective. He showed why he was a big time recruit last year making some great catches. That said, I can't say I will miss his on-the-field demeanor. RJ turned into solid+ performer, mainly out of necessity.  FDIII and to a lesser extent Stewart underwhelmed/disappointed. They'll need to be better or get passed by.  Jackson looks like a stud if he stays healthy. We'll need to see how he catches the ball downfield, but he has the look of a playmaker. I really liked Layne in the spring game.  I would love to see him stick at WR. A lot of unknowns, but promising youth at WR.
TE: Far Worse / Below Average
Price had a bad year. He dropped some key passes and his pass blocking never improved. Lyles was steady, but also plateaued. Even so, they were an above average group.  I find it disturbing that Sokol hasn't seen more minutes so far. Yes we had depth, but he is a big athletic kid that should of been catching balls by his Sophomore year.  He was Wing T QB in HS. I would love to see them use him as an H-back. Behind him are even more young unknowns.
OL: Improved / Average to Above Average
The OL has been a favorite whipping boy the last few years. But lets look at this logically, not emotionally.  Injuries have been a major problem. 2015 had countless line combos, including Jack Allen at LT. Call it an excuse, I'll call it reality. Kodi Keiler was a walking injury, Machado was a disaster and Beedle at tackle was a fail. People love to rip on Staten, but look what he had to work around in 2015 and with in 2016.  Still they only gave up 21 sacks in 2015 & 26 sacks in 2016.  Not great, not awful, pretty average.  Obv run blocking was below average. If you take a deep look at the OL roster, it has the potential to be the biggest OL we've had. Maybe not in 2017, but 2018 this line should be ripe.  We have more 6-6 big wide bodies on the roster than I can remember. Guys like Chewins and Campbell still need to fill out and 2017 will be a bit of a learning curve. But I expect it will be better than last year (note, I said this last year too).  The fact that Campbell is winning the RT spot as a r-Fr, instead of having a stop gap like Machado or Beedle is a good sign. Beedle as a guard should be fine, he has a big ass.

Defense: Similar to last year / Below Average
DE: Worse than last year / Far below Average in the BIG
The single biggest issue position issue with the team last year was the DL, more specifically at DE.  Not even worth recapping last year, I think we can all agree it was atrocious.  After the continued loses of young DEs, I don't see it getting much better and who knows about Cooper & Bowers. I'm not buying the Willekes and double Alexander hype. They are playing out of necessity.  It would be a good story if walk-ons were cracking the 2-deep without all the attrition we've had... but that is not the case. God I hope I am wrong here.
DT: Better / Average to Above Average
I'm not sure they are elite category, but the combo of R.Williams and Panasuik has the potential to be really good. Panasuik got abused early on, no surprise, he was a frosh. But started holding his own later in the year. I fully expect him to become a dominate player.  Jones should be the 3rd man in the rotation. Really need a 4th & 5th man to step up and put the D on their back. I'm not sure that person exists on the roster, however.
LB: Same as Last Year / Average to Above Average
I've talked a lot about Frey. Toughest SOB on our team bare known. Problem is, he is simply not big or fast enough to be an every down LB. But it is what it is. Reshke is a lose, but barely played last year. Bullough is a lose, but he didn't exactly have the Sr year many were expecting. Bachie looked really good when he was thrown into the fire against Maryland. He should be solid. Dowell seemed to regress last year. I expect that to reverse in 2017. But again he is another smallish LB, couple his size with Frey and we are simply too small at LB for my tastes. But far from the biggest issue. Plenty of depth. Hopefully one of the young kids is a banger and rotates with Frey/Dowell at the OLB spots.
CB: No fucking clue
Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of the CBs so I'm not even going to try.  Layne looked good last year, but I would love to see him at WR. Copeland was below average last year and looked awful in the spring game, so whatever.
S: Unknown to Better / Unknown to Average
Nicholson got a bad rap IMO. He was one of our better tacklers last year (much improved from 2015). He played well in the box, maybe not so much outside of it. I tried to cut Cox some slack. Safety is by far the hardest position to play in our quarters D. They have the most reads and responsibilities and when they fuck up, it's going to look really bad. Cox looked really bad a lot last year. That said, I don't see how we could be worse, especially from a coverage perspective. What Morrison/Miller/Dowell/Willis lack in athleticism compared to Montae/Cox hopefully they make up in just being in the right position most of the time.  Call this one another incomplete/wait and see.

Special Teams: Same / Average
Underated aspect of why we fell so hard. Sadler was an absolute machine at dropping balls inside the 20. That was huge for our defense. Hartbarger seemed to get better last year, maybe I'm just mis-remembering. Touchback % has also been way down the last two years.  Gieger was solid. Made some big kicks, missed some that he should have made.  No idea on Cronin...if I recall he didn't look that great in the spring game...I could be wrong. The fact that they brought in 3 kids this offseason is not exactly encouraging. Hopefully one of them can kick it into the end zone. As far as returns goes, you can blame Snyder till your blue in the face, but this is a Dantonio philosophical issue. He'll sacrifice setting up a long return for fielding the punt cleanly and not turning it over. Unless we stumble upon Mel Gray in recruiting, this isn't going to change.

Overall: I had been pegging 2018 as the year we get back to contending for a BIG title. The OL will have matured, we would have a two-year starting QB and the young DL talent will would of been on their 3rd year. The attrition at DE is a major blow to this theory.  Not really sure what to think about our long term future now. DL is the single most impactful position in college football IMO (more important that OL and QB) and DE is a major fucking problem now and in the future. For 2017, we'll be right on that 6-6 edge. Think about all the close games that just seemed to slip away in the 2nd half. That hasn't been a norm.  Last year was also the first year we were a negative in the turnover margin.  The previous 3 years were Top 5 in turnover margin. Correct those two things alone and we win a couple more games. Add in better QB /OL play and that is a couple more. The D is going to struggle. We won't be able to grind out wins like the past. I think it is kind of funny all the people on here or tRCMB saying they would take 6-6 or 7-5, but you know damn well as soon as we lose our first game, fans will be calling for calling for coaches heads. Should be a fun ride!

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Floyd Robertson on 2017-06-13, 17:28

Nordic you should really podcast that for tSwill. Listening > scrolling on the phone. ;-)
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by DWags on 2017-06-13, 17:31

Nordic wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

You are correct.

Here's my question, what are the positives that well help this team improve from last seasons 3-9?


More serious outlook....

Offense: Improved from Last Year / Average in the BIG
QB: Much Improved from Last Year / Average in the BIG
There is lots of debate on whether the OL was the issue or TOC.  IMO the OL was third on the list of positional issues behind the DL & QB. TOC is a gritty competitor, but he lacked vision and couldn't throw the ball downfield (insert Nigel posting a youtube video of RJ Shelton vs. Indiana). We can argue this till we are blue in the face, but I don't think anyone would say that TOC was an adequate QB. Lewerke stats don't look much better (actually they are worse), but he was r-Fr vs. r-Sr.  If he is no better than TOC and doesn't continue to grow, yeah, we are in trouble.  I can't quantify Lewerke's performance with stats, but he looked like he could see the field and deliver the ball where it needed to go. It is unfair, but he if I'm doing a comparison it would be Cousin's without the arm strength (which is TBD).  Based on the limited reps, he looks to have a good feel for the game, good pocket presence, decent scrambler and made the right reads/put the ball where it needed to be.
RB: Same as Last Year / Above Average to Elite in the BIG
We have the same 3 dudes as last year.  Conventional thought would be another year under their belt and they should be better. I'll call it even.
WR: Unknown / Above Average potential
The lose of Corley is big from a talent perspective. He showed why he was a big time recruit last year making some great catches. That said, I can't say I will miss his on-the-field demeanor. RJ turned into solid+ performer, mainly out of necessity.  FDIII and to a lesser extent Stewart underwhelmed/disappointed. They'll need to be better or get passed by.  Jackson looks like a stud if he stays healthy. We'll need to see how he catches the ball downfield, but he has the look of a playmaker. I really liked Layne in the spring game.  I would love to see him stick at WR. A lot of unknowns, but promising youth at WR.
TE: Far Worse / Below Average
Price had a bad year. He dropped some key passes and his pass blocking never improved. Lyles was steady, but also plateaued. Even so, they were an above average group.  I find it disturbing that Sokol hasn't seen more minutes so far. Yes we had depth, but he is a big athletic kid that should of been catching balls by his Sophomore year.  He was Wing T QB in HS. I would love to see them use him as an H-back. Behind him are even more young unknowns.
OL: Improved / Average to Above Average
The OL has been a favorite whipping boy the last few years. But lets look at this logically, not emotionally.  Injuries have been a major problem. 2015 had countless line combos, including Jack Allen at LT. Call it an excuse, I'll call it reality. Kodi Keiler was a walking injury, Machado was a disaster and Beedle at tackle was a fail. People love to rip on Staten, but look what he had to work around in 2015 and with in 2016.  Still they only gave up 21 sacks in 2015 & 26 sacks in 2016.  Not great, not awful, pretty average.  Obv run blocking was below average. If you take a deep look at the OL roster, it has the potential to be the biggest OL we've had. Maybe not in 2017, but 2018 this line should be ripe.  We have more 6-6 big wide bodies on the roster than I can remember. Guys like Chewins and Campbell still need to fill out and 2017 will be a bit of a learning curve. But I expect it will be better than last year (of course I said this last year too).  The fact that Campbell is winning the RT spot as a r-Fr, instead of having a stop gap like Machado or Beedle is a good sign. Beedle as a guard should be fine, he has a big ass.

Defense: Similar to last year /  Average in the BIG
DE: Worse than last year / Far below Average in the BIG
The single biggest position issue with the team last year was the DL, more specifically at DE.  Not even worth recapping last year, I think we can all agree it was atrocious.  After the continued loses of young DEs, I don't see it getting much better and who knows about Cooper & Bowers. I'm not buying the Willekes and double Alexander hype. They are playing out of necessity.  It would be a good story if walk-ons were cracking the 2-deep without all the attrition we've had... but that is not the case. God I hope I am wrong here.
DT: Better / Average to Above Average
I'm not sure they are elite category, but the combo of R.Williams and Panasuik has the potential to be really good. Panasuik got abused early on, no surprise, he was a frosh. But started holding his own later in the year. I fully expect him to become a dominate player.  Jones should be the 3rd man in the rotation. Really need a 4th & 5th man to step up and put the D on their back. I'm not sure that person exists on the roster, however.
LB: Same as Last Year / Average to Above Average
I've talked a lot about Frey. Toughest SOB on our team bare known. Problem is, he is simply not big or fast enough to be an every down LB. But it is what it is. Reshke is a lose, but barely played last year. Bullough is a lose, but he didn't exactly have the Sr year many were expecting. Bachie looked really good when he was thrown into the fire against Maryland. He should be solid. Dowell seemed to regress last year. I expect that to reverse in 2017. But again he is another smallish LB, couple his size with Frey and we are simply too small at LB for my tastes. But far from the biggest issue. Plenty of depth. Hopefully one of the young kids is a banger and rotates with Frey/Dowell at the OLB spots.
CB: No fucking clue
Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of the CBs so I'm not even going to try.  Layne looked good last year, but I would love to see him at WR. Copeland was below average last year and looked awful in the spring game, so whatever.
S: Unknown to Better / Unknown to Average
Nicholson got a bad rap IMO. He was one of our better tacklers last year (much improved from 2015). He played well in the box, maybe not so much outside of it. I tried to cut Cox some slack. Safety is by far the hardest position to play in our quarters D. They have the most reads and responsibilities and when they fuck up, it's going to look really bad. Cox looked really bad a lot last year. That said, I don't see how we could be worse, especially from a coverage perspective. What Morrison/Miller/Dowell/Willis lack in athleticism compared to Montae/Cox hopefully they make up in just being in the right position most of the time.  Call this one another incomplete/wait and see.

Special Teams: Same / Average
Underated aspect of why we fell so hard. Sadler was an absolute machine at dropping balls inside the 20. That was huge for our defense. Hartbarger seemed to get better last year, maybe I'm just mis-remembering. Touchback % has also been way down the last two years.  Gieger was solid. Made some big kicks, missed some that he should have made.  No idea on Cronin...if I recall he didn't look that great in the spring game...I could be wrong. The fact that they brought in 3 kids this offseason is not exactly encouraging. Hopefully one of them can kick it into the end zone. As far as returns goes, you can blame Snyder till your blue in the face, but this is a Dantonio philosophical issue. He'll sacrifice setting up a long return for fielding the punt cleanly and not turning it over. Unless we stumble upon Mel Gray in recruiting, this isn't going to change.

Overall: I had been pegging 2018 as the year we get back to contending for a BIG title. The OL will have matured, we would have a two-year starting QB and the young DL talent will would of been on their 3rd year. The attrition at DE is a major blow to this theory.  Not really sure what to think about our long term future now. DL is the single most impactful position in college football IMO (more important that OL and QB) and DE is a major fucking problem now and in the future. For 2017, we'll be right on that 6-6 edge. Think about all the close games that just seemed to slip away in the 2nd half. That hasn't been a norm.  Last year was also the first year we were a negative in the turnover margin.  The previous 3 years were Top 5 in turnover margin. Correct those two things alone and we win a couple more games. Add in better QB /OL play and that is a couple more. The D is going to struggle. We won't be able to grind out wins like the past. I think it is kind of funny all the people on here or tRCMB saying they would take 6-6 or 7-5, but you know damn well as soon as we lose our first game, fans will be calling for calling for coaches heads. Should be a fun ride!


Well done. Agree with most. On phone however too hard to chime in. This is very well thought out. Thanks.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-13, 17:59

Spartan Football‏Verified account @MSU_Football 5h5 hours ago
More
Spartans release updated roster: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/msu/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2016-17/misc_non_event/SummerRoster.pdf …

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-06-13, 18:21

I just wanted to thank all of you who quoted Nordy on his most excellent post. It's always fun scrolling through long posts just to read your one sentence observations.












Fuckers.
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Nordic on 2017-06-13, 18:36

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Wild card at corner - TJ Harrell

Yeah...that was an interesting one this spring. I forgot about him and Scott (who dwags mentioned).

I was a bit leary of the Scott hype, for similar reasons to the Willekes hype...but he looked legit in the spring game. Just need Manny to get some weight on him.

I can see Harrell has a hybrid nickel corner/LB. Great option as a bubble screen buster...typically the role of our LBs.

Two promising players.
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by NigelUno on 2017-06-13, 19:06

Nordic wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

You are correct.

Here's my question, what are the positives that well help this team improve from last seasons 3-9?


More serious outlook....

Offense: Improved from Last Year / Average in the BIG
QB: Much Improved from Last Year / Average in the BIG
There is lots of debate on whether the OL was the issue or TOC.  IMO the OL was third on the list of positional issues behind the DL & QB. TOC is a gritty competitor, but he lacked vision and couldn't throw the ball downfield (insert Nigel posting a youtube video of RJ Shelton vs. Indiana). We can argue this till we are blue in the face, but I don't think anyone would say that TOC was an adequate QB. Lewerke stats don't look much better (actually they are worse), but he was r-Fr vs. r-Sr.  If he is no better than TOC and doesn't continue to grow, yeah, we are in trouble.  I can't quantify Lewerke's performance with stats, but he looked like he could see the field and deliver the ball where it needed to go. It is unfair, but he if I'm doing a comparison it would be Cousin's without the arm strength (which is TBD).  Based on the limited reps, he looks to have a good feel for the game, good pocket presence, decent scrambler and made the right reads/put the ball where it needed to be.
RB: Same as Last Year / Above Average to Elite in the BIG
We have the same 3 dudes as last year.  Conventional thought would be another year under their belt and they should be better. I'll call it even.
WR: Unknown / Above Average potential
The lose of Corley is big from a talent perspective. He showed why he was a big time recruit last year making some great catches. That said, I can't say I will miss his on-the-field demeanor. RJ turned into solid+ performer, mainly out of necessity.  FDIII and to a lesser extent Stewart underwhelmed/disappointed. They'll need to be better or get passed by.  Jackson looks like a stud if he stays healthy. We'll need to see how he catches the ball downfield, but he has the look of a playmaker. I really liked Layne in the spring game.  I would love to see him stick at WR. A lot of unknowns, but promising youth at WR.
TE: Far Worse / Below Average
Price had a bad year. He dropped some key passes and his pass blocking never improved. Lyles was steady, but also plateaued. Even so, they were an above average group.  I find it disturbing that Sokol hasn't seen more minutes so far. Yes we had depth, but he is a big athletic kid that should of been catching balls by his Sophomore year.  He was Wing T QB in HS. I would love to see them use him as an H-back. Behind him are even more young unknowns.
OL: Improved / Average to Above Average
The OL has been a favorite whipping boy the last few years. But lets look at this logically, not emotionally.  Injuries have been a major problem. 2015 had countless line combos, including Jack Allen at LT. Call it an excuse, I'll call it reality. Kodi Keiler was a walking injury, Machado was a disaster and Beedle at tackle was a fail. People love to rip on Staten, but look what he had to work around in 2015 and with in 2016.  Still they only gave up 21 sacks in 2015 & 26 sacks in 2016.  Not great, not awful, pretty average.  Obv run blocking was below average. If you take a deep look at the OL roster, it has the potential to be the biggest OL we've had. Maybe not in 2017, but 2018 this line should be ripe.  We have more 6-6 big wide bodies on the roster than I can remember. Guys like Chewins and Campbell still need to fill out and 2017 will be a bit of a learning curve. But I expect it will be better than last year (of course I said this last year too).  The fact that Campbell is winning the RT spot as a r-Fr, instead of having a stop gap like Machado or Beedle is a good sign. Beedle as a guard should be fine, he has a big ass.

Defense: Similar to last year /  Average in the BIG
DE: Worse than last year / Far below Average in the BIG
The single biggest position issue with the team last year was the DL, more specifically at DE.  Not even worth recapping last year, I think we can all agree it was atrocious.  After the continued loses of young DEs, I don't see it getting better and who knows about Cooper & Bowers. I'm not buying the Willekes and double Alexander hype. They are playing out of necessity.  It would be a good story if walk-ons were cracking the 2-deep without all the attrition we've had... but that is not the case. God I hope I am wrong here.
DT: Better / Average to Above Average
I'm not sure they are elite category, but the combo of R.Williams and Panasuik has the potential to be really good. Panasuik got abused early on, no surprise, he was a frosh. But started holding his own later in the year. I fully expect him to become a dominate player.  Jones should be the 3rd man in the rotation. Really need a 4th & 5th man to step up and put the D on their back. I'm not sure that person exists on the roster, however.
LB: Same as Last Year / Average to Above Average
I've talked a lot about Frey. By far the toughest SOB on our team. Problem is, he is simply not big or fast enough to be an every down LB. But it is what it is. Reshke is a lose, but barely played last year. Bullough is a lose, but he didn't exactly have the Sr year many were expecting. Bachie looked really good when he was thrown into the fire against Maryland. He should be solid. Dowell seemed to regress last year. I expect that to reverse in 2017. But again he is another smallish LB, couple his size with Frey and we are simply too small at LB for my tastes. But far from the biggest issue. Plenty of depth. Hopefully one of the young kids is a banger and rotates with Frey/Dowell at the OLB spots.
CB: No fucking clue
Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of the CBs so I'm not even going to try.  Layne looked good last year, but I would love to see him at WR. Copeland was below average last year and looked awful in the spring game, so whatever.
S: Unknown to Better / Unknown to Average
Nicholson got a bad rap IMO. He was one of our best tacklers last year (much improved from 2015). He played well in the box, maybe not so much outside of it. I tried to cut Cox some slack. Safety is by far the hardest position to play in our quarters D. They have the most reads and responsibilities and when they fuck up, it's going to look really bad. And Cox looked really bad a lot last year. That said, I don't see how we could be worse, especially from a coverage perspective. What Morrison/Miller/Dowell/Willis lack in athleticism compared to Montae/Cox hopefully they make up in just being in the right position most of the time.  Call this one another incomplete/wait and see.

Special Teams: Same / Average
Underated aspect of why we fell so hard. Sadler was an absolute machine at dropping balls inside the 20. That was huge for our defense. Hartbarger seemed to get better last year, maybe I'm just mis-remembering. Touchback % has also been way down the last two years.  Gieger was solid. Made some big kicks, missed some that he should have made.  No idea on Cronin...if I recall he didn't look that great in the spring game...I could be wrong. The fact that they brought in 3 kids this offseason is not exactly encouraging. Hopefully one of them can kick it into the end zone. As far as returns goes, you can blame Snyder till your blue in the face, but this is a Dantonio philosophical issue. He'll sacrifice setting up a long return for fielding the punt cleanly and not turning it over. Unless we stumble upon Mel Gray in recruiting, this isn't going to change.

Overall: I had been pegging 2018 as the year we get back to contending for a BIG title. The OL will have matured, we would have a two-year starting QB and the young DL talent will would of been in their 3rd year. All the makings of a championship caliber team. However, the attrition at DE is a major blow to this theory.  Not really sure what to think of our long term future now. DL is the single most impactful position in college football IMO (more important that OL and QB) and DE is a major fucking problem now and in the future. For 2017, we'll be right on that 6-6 edge. Think about all the close games that just seemed to slip away in the 2nd half. That hasn't been a norm.  Last year was also the first year we were a negative in the turnover margin.  The previous 3 years were Top 5 in turnover margin. Correct those two things alone and we win a couple more games. Add in better QB /OL play and that is a couple more. The D is going to struggle. We won't be able to grind out wins like the past. I think it is kind of funny all the people on here or tRCMB saying they would take 6-6 or 7-5, but you know damn well as soon as we lose our first game, fans will be calling for calling for coaches heads. Should be a fun ride!

Awesome write up.

OL was a bigger problem than QB though.
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Rocinante on 2017-06-13, 19:11

So Rocky is fat?

Who cares. With a name like that he's going to be a fucking superstar. Next Ben Rothlesburger, you know minus the raping.

Oh God I hope.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-06-13, 19:27

Rocky is not fat. Vayante Copeland was fat and slow in the spring game. Fucking still thinking about that ham sandwich I bet.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Rocinante on 2017-06-13, 19:54

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Rocky is not fat. Vayante Copeland was fat and slow in the spring game. Fucking still thinking about that ham sandwich I bet.

I wasn't until now, asshole.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-13, 20:45

Couch: MSU football players set down phones, try old-school communication to change vibe


EAST LANSING – Time will tell if Michigan State’s football team has enough talent and experience to win this season, whether there are enough defensive ends on the roster to sniff an opposing quarterback, enough playmakers to overcome deficiencies.

Those are questions that can’t be answered until September. The difference between 3-9 and 6-6, however, is elsewhere. It’s in a team’s togetherness, its leadership, whether its players have common purpose.

“Last year, (there was) a lot of division. … When it was time to work, I feel like we didn’t have that connection or that bond,” MSU senior running back Gerald Holmes said Tuesday. “All of that played a role with trust issues.”

MSU’s players are immersed in trying correct those issues before the 2017 season begins.

When a group of 18- to 22-year-olds puts down their cell phones to engage in actual old-school conversation, they’re truly committed to a cause.

The Spartans are dumping their phones at the door when entering their cafeteria, an effort to understand each other and strengthen relationships.

“It was weird,” Holmes said, reenacting reaching into his pocket for a phone that wasn’t there. “Sometimes you’ve got Twitter updates. You probably sent a message out earlier and are waiting on a response. ‘Oh, my phone’s on the table over there.’”

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Nordic on 2017-06-13, 23:35

LooseGoose wrote:Couch: MSU football players set down phones, try old-school communication to change vibe


EAST LANSING – Time will tell if Michigan State’s football team has enough talent and experience to win this season, whether there are enough defensive ends on the roster to sniff an opposing quarterback, enough playmakers to overcome deficiencies.

Those are questions that can’t be answered until September. The difference between 3-9 and 6-6, however, is elsewhere. It’s in a team’s togetherness, its leadership, whether its players have common purpose.

“Last year, (there was) a lot of division. … When it was time to work, I feel like we didn’t have that connection or that bond,” MSU senior running back Gerald Holmes said Tuesday. “All of that played a role with trust issues.”

MSU’s players are immersed in trying correct those issues before the 2017 season begins.

When a group of 18- to 22-year-olds puts down their cell phones to engage in actual old-school conversation, they’re truly committed to a cause.

The Spartans are dumping their phones at the door when entering their cafeteria, an effort to understand each other and strengthen relationships.

“It was weird,” Holmes said, reenacting reaching into his pocket for a phone that wasn’t there. “Sometimes you’ve got Twitter updates. You probably sent a message out earlier and are waiting on a response. ‘Oh, my phone’s on the table over there.’”

Hopefully the trash has been taking out.

Bumping the full article in case tGreenway missed it the first time.
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by pulling69 on 2017-06-14, 00:32

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Rocky is not fat. Vayante Copeland was fat and slow in the spring game. Fucking still thinking about that ham sandwich I bet.

At least someone in the secondary was able to put down their food..... cough cough Cox burrito.
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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-06-14, 02:37

Nordic wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Couch: MSU football players set down phones, try old-school communication to change vibe



Hopefully the trash has been taking out.

Bumping the full article in case tGreenway missed it the first time.

I ate a ham sandwich for lunch, and I might have another tomorrow.

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-14, 07:03

Niyo: MSU football aims to start over with less 'division'

Still, every once in a while, Terry admits, he’ll find himself in a conversation with one of his classmates, someone like linebacker Shane Jones, another fifth-year senior who was around for that Rose Bowl season in 2013 and all the heady success that followed

“And we’ll just be, like, ‘Damn,’ you know?” Terry said, the exasperation plainly audible. “Because everything just kind of happened so fast. I mean, it’s a lot of weight on our shoulders. But we don’t want to sit back and ask, ‘What happened?’ We want to fix it right away. So that’s what we’re doing right now.”

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-14, 07:13

Michigan State football team struggled with cohesion, not talent, last season

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Re: 2017/18 Football Thread

Post by Death Roe on 2017-06-14, 09:03

WHITE HELMET

DO WANT

https://twitter.com/MSU_Football/status/874974823033733124

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Where to start?
I mean, the first thing with pea soup is the texture, okay?
I've had watery pea soup, it's AWFUL.
Uh, I've had gelatinous, thick pea soup, it's TERRIBLE.
Pea soup, much like clam chowder, needs to have that consistency first, that you can stand the spoon up in it, but the spoon soon tilts, that's the consistency you want.
Number two: Uh, pea soup on it's own can be a little bland. It wants, uh, a fairly aggressive peppering and salting.
Number three: Pea soup needs a fine dice of ham. Not bacon, not any other meat, not turkey. It needs a fine dice of ham.
Uh, number four: Uh, pea soup scorches easily. You don't wanna heat it on a high heat. You wanna heat it on medium low, just until it's warmed through.
Uh, number five: Pea soup is best made, uh, by hand, not out of a Campbell's can. And the key to pea soup, you want a ham bone, uh, for the stock you make, uh, to, to boil your peas.
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