Russia and Trump

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-18, 15:07

Remember when Trump chided Obama for failing to address how some Middle Eastern regimes treat women in a 2009 speech in Cairo, but then failed to muster the courage to do so in his own 2017 speech in Riyadh?

Young woman arrested in Saudi Arabia for wearing 'suggestive clothing'
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/world/young-woman-arrested-in-saudi-arabia-for-wearing-suggestive-clothing/2017/07/18/1021f4f4-6bd6-11e7-abbc-a53480672286_video.html?tid=sm_tw

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-21, 15:30

Turtleneck wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:I did not find the speech to be all that remarkable. I suppose you could say it was Trump's best foreign policy speech to date, but at this point that is a fairly low bar to get across.

In an August 2016 foreign policy speech, Trump was critical of Obama for not using a 2009 speech in Egypt as an opportunity to address oppressive Middle Eastern regimes. Trump said:



Trump has been given the same opportunity twice. In Saudi Arabia, he could have addressed "the oppression of women and gays in many Muslim nations," but opted not to do so. In Poland, Trump had an opportunity to address the policies of Poland's ruling Law and Justice Party, which includes a crackdown on free speech, exerting state control over independent media, and judicial interference among others.

Council of Europe criticizes Poland over judicial vote
Europe's pre-eminent human rights organization on Thursday called Poland's vote to change regulations governing a top legal body a "major setback for judicial independence," highlighting widespread international criticism.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/council-europe-criticizes-poland-judicial-vote-48606940?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MB%207-13&utm_term=%2AMorning%20Brief

Protests in Poland over plans to put Supreme Court under political control
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/20/world/poland-protests-democracy-supreme-court/index.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20Campaign&utm_term=%2AMorning%20Brief

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-08-05, 10:12





ALISO VIEJO, Calif. — Democrats are increasingly conflicted about how forcefully to press the issue of possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

Fearful of alienating voters who appear more concerned about the economy and health care, Democrats campaigning in districts across the country are de-emphasizing Russia in their rhetoric — and some are warning that a persistent focus on the Russia investigation could backfire.

“In the races where I’m working, I think voters think that Russia is important and that the questions need to get answered,” Bill Burton, a veteran Democratic consultant, said at a political convention this past weekend. “But they’re mostly sick of hearing about it, and they want to hear politicians talk about things that are more directly important in their lives.”

In a state that is critical to the party’s efforts to retake the House, Darry Sragow, a Democratic strategist whose California Target Book handicaps races in California, called Russia a “distraction” and said Democrats “are going to be in deep, deep trouble if they don’t start talking about what voters care about.”

“We need to talk about what people think about when they wake up in the morning, and it’s not Russia,” Sragow said. “The more we talk about stuff that voters don’t truly care about in their daily lives … it confirms that the Democratic Party’s brain has been eaten by the elites in Washington who have been sitting fat and happy for a lot of years while working Americans have lost their jobs and lost confidence in the future.”

Democrats fear Russia probe blowback 'We need to talk about what people think about when they wake up in the morning, and it’s not Russia,' said one strategist.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-08-05, 10:16

Jared Kushner really fears Russian blow back.
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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by DWags on 2017-08-05, 10:43

LooseGoose wrote:



ALISO VIEJO, Calif. — Democrats are increasingly conflicted about how forcefully to press the issue of possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

Fearful of alienating voters who appear more concerned about the economy and health care, Democrats campaigning in districts across the country are de-emphasizing Russia in their rhetoric — and some are warning that a persistent focus on the Russia investigation could backfire.

“In the races where I’m working, I think voters think that Russia is important and that the questions need to get answered,” Bill Burton, a veteran Democratic consultant, said at a political convention this past weekend. “But they’re mostly sick of hearing about it, and they want to hear politicians talk about things that are more directly important in their lives.”

In a state that is critical to the party’s efforts to retake the House, Darry Sragow, a Democratic strategist whose California Target Book handicaps races in California, called Russia a “distraction” and said Democrats “are going to be in deep, deep trouble if they don’t start talking about what voters care about.”

“We need to talk about what people think about when they wake up in the morning, and it’s not Russia,” Sragow said. “The more we talk about stuff that voters don’t truly care about in their daily lives … it confirms that the Democratic Party’s brain has been eaten by the elites in Washington who have been sitting fat and happy for a lot of years while working Americans have lost their jobs and lost confidence in the future.”

Democrats fear Russia probe blowback 'We need to talk about what people think about when they wake up in the morning, and it’s not Russia,' said one strategist.




Grand juries don't give a fuck about Dems or pubs or economy or health care. This shit has crossed the rubicon at this point and something comes of it or not. The shit on tv and radio has become white noise. No more important than us talking about what a football coach should have done. Grand Jury just doesn't care.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-08-05, 10:57

Every grand jury in Mio must have been very political.
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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by NigelUno on 2017-08-07, 07:23

US Secretary of State Tillerson: Russian election meddling 'created serious mistrust'

Speaking at the ASEAN Regional Forum in the Philippines Monday, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said he told Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov that "meddling in the elections is certainly a serious incident."

"We talked about it in the discussion we had with Minister Lavrov yesterday -- and trying to help them understand just how serious this incident had been and how seriously it had damaged the relationship between the US and the American people and the Russian people," Tillerson said.

"(I said) this had created serious mistrust between our two countries and that we simply have to find some way to deal with that."

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-08-08, 12:33

Turtleneck wrote:I did not find the speech to be all that remarkable. I suppose you could say it was Trump's best foreign policy speech to date, but at this point that is a fairly low bar to get across.

In an August 2016 foreign policy speech, Trump was critical of Obama for not using a 2009 speech in Egypt as an opportunity to address oppressive Middle Eastern regimes. Trump said:

In winning the Cold War, President Ronald Reagan repeatedly touted the superiority of freedom over communism, and called the USSR the Evil Empire.

Yet, when President Obama delivered his address in Cairo, no such moral courage could be found. Instead of condemning the oppression of women and gays in many Muslim nations, and the systematic violations of human rights, or the financing of global terrorism, President Obama tried to draw an equivalency between our human rights record and theirs.

Trump has been given the same opportunity twice. In Saudi Arabia, he could have addressed "the oppression of women and gays in many Muslim nations," but opted not to do so. In Poland, Trump had an opportunity to address the policies of Poland's ruling Law and Justice Party, which includes a crackdown on free speech, exerting state control over independent media, and judicial interference among others. This means that all of Trump's references to individual freedom rang hollow. If he was committed to individual freedom, he would have asked the Law and Justice Party to rollback its efforts to consolidate power.

Trump, even with his references to individual freedom, did not mention the word democracy once. The word democracy does not appear in the entire speech. Trump spent considerable time talking about the West and Western civilization, but casted the West primarily in racial and religious terms. His speech was a clear reference to Huntington's Clash of Civilization thesis, and it was disappointing that he seemingly left off the table the West's commitment to liberal free-market democracy. I think you can read into many of his comments that he was speaking about liberal free-market democracy - his references to Polish history and individual freedom are evidence - but he never explicitly stated liberal free-market democracy as being a part of a larger Western value system. Yet there is a problem with putting liberal free-market democracy in the basket of Western civilization...liberal free-market democracy transcends the West. Even if he was casting the West in more than racial and religious terms, no longer does the West get to claim liberal free-market democracy as being exclusively Western.

This speech demonstrated that Trump has no coherent foreign policy. For better-or-worse, we knew what Reagan wanted and what he stood for. In Saudi Arabia, Trump did not frame the world as a fight for the survival of Western civilization, but did so in Poland. In Poland, it was "Do we have the desire and the courage to preserve our civilization in the face of those who would subvert and destroy it? The West will never, ever be broken. Our values will prevail, our people will thrive and our civilization will triumph.” In Saudi Arabia, it was “This is not a battle between different faiths, different sects, or different civilizations. This is a battle between barbaric criminals who seek to obliterate human life and decent people.” In one instance it is a battle for the survival of the West on par with our fights against communism and fascism, and in another it is on par with fighting criminals.

Trump's words were probably less meaningful to Putin as the author of the Washington Examiner article suggests. Furthermore, given the reports that followed Trump's meeting with Putin, it does not appear that Trump is too serious about pushing back against Russia.

Finally, it was a joke when Trump said, "We empower women as pillars of our society and of our success," This is a man with a history of mostly objectifying women.

Loose, I know you found an article that said the speech was remarkable, but I was hoping we could discuss further. You sort of went silent.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by NigelUno on 2017-08-23, 21:08


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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by NigelUno on 2017-09-27, 07:38


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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-09-27, 09:19

If Special Counsel Mueller has IRS files it means the NFL is going to be the subject of 25 more tweets.
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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2017-09-27, 09:20

GRR Spartan wrote:If Special Counsel Mueller has IRS files it means the NFL is going to be the subject of 25 more tweets.
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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-09-29, 13:42

More Fake News.

The fake news pushers are certainly succeeding at keeping your panties in a bunch.

Yet Another Major Russia Story Falls Apart. Is Skepticism Permissible Yet?

LAST FRIDAY, most major media outlets touted a major story about Russian attempts to hack into U.S. voting systems, based exclusively on claims made by the Department of Homeland Security. “Russians attempted to hack elections systems in 21 states in the run-up to last year’s presidential election, officials said Friday,” began the USA Today story, similar to how most other outlets presented this extraordinary claim.



This official story was explosive for obvious reasons, and predictably triggered instant decrees – that of course went viral – declaring that the legitimacy of the outcome of the 2016 U.S. presidential election is now in doubt.

So what was wrong with this story? Just one small thing: it was false. The story began to fall apart yesterday when Associated Press reported that Wisconsin – one of the states included in the original report that, for obvious reasons, caused the most excitement – did not, in fact, have its election systems targeted by Russian hackers:

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2017-09-29, 13:44

LooseGoose wrote:More Fake News.

The fake news pushers are certainly succeeding at keeping your panties in a bunch.

Yet Another Major Russia Story Falls Apart. Is Skepticism Permissible Yet?

LAST FRIDAY, most major media outlets touted a major story about Russian attempts to hack into U.S. voting systems, based exclusively on claims made by the Department of Homeland Security. “Russians attempted to hack elections systems in 21 states in the run-up to last year’s presidential election, officials said Friday,” began the USA Today story, similar to how most other outlets presented this extraordinary claim.



This official story was explosive for obvious reasons, and predictably triggered instant decrees – that of course went viral – declaring that the legitimacy of the outcome of the 2016 U.S. presidential election is now in doubt.

So what was wrong with this story? Just one small thing: it was false. The story began to fall apart yesterday when Associated Press reported that Wisconsin – one of the states included in the original report that, for obvious reasons, caused the most excitement – did not, in fact, have its election systems targeted by Russian hackers:

Someone should really talk to Mueller about this. Maybe he should open a restaurant called Nothingburgers instead?
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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Rocinante on 2017-09-29, 16:18

Goose's fake news links claim that media is questioning the results of the election. I googled 2016 hacks of U.S. election and the first result was a WaPo article with this a paragraph in:

"In only a handful of states, including Illinois, did hackers actually penetrate computer systems, according to U.S. officials, and there is no evidence that hackers tampered with any voting machines."

Fucking snowflake.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by NigelUno on 2017-10-10, 20:38

Carter Page says he won’t testify before Senate Intelligence panel in Russia probe

Carter Page, a former foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign, informed the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday that he will not be cooperating with any requests to appear before the panel for its investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election and would plead the Fifth, according to a source familiar with the matter.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-10-12, 09:56

Mueller is digging into Cambridge Analytica’s activities in the 2016 election.
Things are getting curiouser and curiouser
https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/355010-cambridge-analytica-asked-to-provide-info-to-house-intel-committee%3Famp




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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by NigelUno on 2017-10-19, 09:30

Trump Campaign Staffers Pushed Russian Propaganda Days Before the Election

Kellyanne Conway and Donald Trump Jr. pushed messages from an account operated from Russia’s ‘troll farm’—including allegations of voter fraud a week before Election Day.

Some of the Trump campaign’s most prominent names and supporters, including Trump’s campaign manager, digital director, and son, pushed tweets from professional trolls paid by the Russian government in the heat of the 2016 election campaign.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by DWags on 2017-10-19, 12:54

NigelUno wrote:Trump Campaign Staffers Pushed Russian Propaganda Days Before the Election

Kellyanne Conway and Donald Trump Jr. pushed messages from an account operated from Russia’s ‘troll farm’—including allegations of voter fraud a week before Election Day.

Some of the Trump campaign’s most prominent names and supporters, including Trump’s campaign manager, digital director, and son, pushed tweets from professional trolls paid by the Russian government in the heat of the 2016 election campaign.


And they'll say "We didn't know who sent them, we were just pushing them to help the elections.  

This is the most scum ball slimiest administration I've ever been alive for.   Scumbags all.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by steveschneider on 2017-10-19, 12:57

DWags wrote:


And they'll say "We didn't know who sent them, we were just pushing them to help the elections.  

This is the most scum ball slimiest administration I've ever been alive for.   Scumbags all.

It's really mind blowing.

I guess the good news is Mueller's investigation is coming right along. Fingers crossed!
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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Cameron on 2017-10-25, 17:50

DWags wrote:


And they'll say "We didn't know who sent them, we were just pushing them to help the elections.  

This is the most scum ball slimiest administration I've ever been alive for.   Scumbags all.

They really might not know, though. It's not inconceivable that they could have been manipulated by the Russians without even knowing it. I mean, the collective IQ of that whole campaign might not hit four digits, so it's in play...

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-11-19, 10:13

And another Dem talking point is exposed as a lie.....all used to push the Russia narrative.

Byron York: How pundits got key part of Trump-Russia story all wrong

A key talking point in the theory that Donald Trump and the Russians conspired in the 2016 election is the allegation that last summer, during the Republican convention, the Trump campaign changed the GOP platform to weaken its stance on Russia's aggression in Ukraine.

It's been cited many, many times. The only problem is, it's all wrong.

The wildest expression of the theory came, as it often does, from MSNBC's Rachel Maddow, who told viewers on March 8 that "something weird" happened to the GOP platform on "that Ukraine and Russia thing" when the Trump team "jumped right up on that and they insisted that that plank only, that one, had to be taken out, that language could not stand."

Maddow's charge echoed what Democrats have long been saying about the issue. "Donald Trump changed the Republican platform to become what some experts would regard as pro-Russian," Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook told ABC on July 24 of last year. Some journalists, including those less fevered than Maddow, joined in to report the so-called weakening as an accepted fact. National Public Radio, for example, explained "how the Trump campaign weakened the Republican platform on aid to Ukraine."

Much of the reporting and commentary appears to spring from a single story, published in the Washington Post on July 18, 2016, with the headline "Trump campaign guts GOP's anti-Russia stance on Ukraine." The piece reported that the Trump team "orchestrated a set of events" to change the platform in a pro-Russian direction.

Missing from all the talk is what the Republican platform actually said before it was allegedly "gutted" by Trump. What did the original draft of the platform say about Russia and Ukraine? Was it, in fact, changed? If so, how?

As it turns out, a look at the original draft of the platform — which has never been released publicly — shows that it always had tough language on Russian aggression in Ukraine. And not only did that language stay in the final platform — nothing was taken out — it was actually strengthened, not weakened, as a result of events at the convention.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Rocinante on 2017-11-19, 12:37

That article is shady. I don’t see in there a reference to where he got the information that he says is the original language. If there is one, please point it out. It’s also marked as “opinion” which is weird if it’s facts.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Rocinante on 2017-11-19, 12:44

Actually, he doesn’t even claim to have the original, but he does have some supposed amendment that a Texas lawmaker wanted to add related to Ukraine which he claims is the language everyone was talking about when they said the Trump campaign changed the platform to be more pro Russia. But again he doesn’t source that information. Then he basically shows that yes, the Trump campaign DID in fact want the unsourced language he provided out because “Ukraine would have an outsized role in the platform”. Wtf does that mean? This guy is a bad journalist. I’m calling this fake news unless you can better source it.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by NigelUno on 2017-11-19, 12:46

LooseGoose wrote:And another Dem talking point is exposed as a lie.....all used to push the Russia narrative.

Byron York: How pundits got key part of Trump-Russia story all wrong

A key talking point in the theory that Donald Trump and the Russians conspired in the 2016 election is the allegation that last summer, during the Republican convention, the Trump campaign changed the GOP platform to weaken its stance on Russia's aggression in Ukraine.

It's been cited many, many times. The only problem is, it's all wrong.

The wildest expression of the theory came, as it often does, from MSNBC's Rachel Maddow, who told viewers on March 8 that "something weird" happened to the GOP platform on "that Ukraine and Russia thing" when the Trump team "jumped right up on that and they insisted that that plank only, that one, had to be taken out, that language could not stand."

Maddow's charge echoed what Democrats have long been saying about the issue. "Donald Trump changed the Republican platform to become what some experts would regard as pro-Russian," Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook told ABC on July 24 of last year. Some journalists, including those less fevered than Maddow, joined in to report the so-called weakening as an accepted fact. National Public Radio, for example, explained "how the Trump campaign weakened the Republican platform on aid to Ukraine."

Much of the reporting and commentary appears to spring from a single story, published in the Washington Post on July 18, 2016, with the headline "Trump campaign guts GOP's anti-Russia stance on Ukraine." The piece reported that the Trump team "orchestrated a set of events" to change the platform in a pro-Russian direction.

Missing from all the talk is what the Republican platform actually said before it was allegedly "gutted" by Trump. What did the original draft of the platform say about Russia and Ukraine? Was it, in fact, changed? If so, how?

As it turns out, a look at the original draft of the platform — which has never been released publicly — shows that it always had tough language on Russian aggression in Ukraine. And not only did that language stay in the final platform — nothing was taken out — it was actually strengthened, not weakened, as a result of events at the convention.

Would you describe the Washington Examiner as far right or alt right?

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-11-19, 13:44

When you can't attack the facts, attack the messenger.


Standard fare.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-11-19, 13:50

1. Byron York has proven to be a strong defender of the president. If this is about objectivity, why is he more credible than those who you perceive as being opposed to the president? Logically speaking, it does not make much sense to call it "case closed" after reading a single article from a partisan source.

2. I wonder if the president contributed to the problem York is describing with his own words. From a July, 2016, interview with Trump,

STEPHANOPOULOS: Then why did you soften the GOP platform on Ukraine?

TRUMP: I wasn't involved in that. Honestly, I was not involved.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Your people were.

TRUMP: Yes. I was not involved in that. I'd like to -- I'd have to take a look at it. But I was not involved in that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you know what they did?

TRUMP: They softened it, I heard, but I was not involved.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-donald-trump-vice-president-joe-biden/story?id=41020870

More to the point, York's article does not dismiss what seems to be at the heart of the issue: the Trump campaign worked to exclude language that supported providing Ukrainian forces with "lethal defensive weapons." As York's article says,

The first thing to note is that Denman's amendment, had it been added to the platform at the length she proposed it, would have given Ukraine an outsized presence in the platform. Besides, Denman's first paragraph basically repeated points that were already in the platform. So it seems highly unlikely that Denman's amendment would have been added to the platform in its entirety.

But the core of Denman's addition was in the second paragraph, in which she sought to add support of sanctions and "lethal defensive weapons" for Ukraine. While many Republicans support lethal aid, it would also be entirely reasonable not to include it — to leave an explicit commitment out of a platform that had already promised to "not accept any territorial change in Eastern Europe imposed by force, in Ukraine or elsewhere."

When Denman proposed her amendment, a Trump national security aide named J.D. Gordon, who was in the room, wanted to edit it. According to Denman, Gordon got on the phone, saying he was calling "New York" to discuss the changes.

The end result was that at the behest of the Trump campaign, the platform committee took out the first paragraph of Denman's amendment altogether. They took out the reference to "lethal defensive weapons" from the second paragraph. But they approved her statement of support for maintaining, and possibly increasing, sanctions against Russia, and, in the place of lethal aid, substituted a pledge to provide "appropriate assistance to the armed forces of Ukraine" and to work more closely with NATO.

3. Given that Tillerson has since shuttered the State Department's sanctions office, and the way Trump has publically approached NATO relations, I am not sure supporting increased sanctions and working through NATO are representative of a strengthened the platform. Overall, there are is a large disconnect between what York claims, and some of the content is his article. He does not, from my perspective, adequately explain this disconnect. Why is it that you believe this is a fabricated story?

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by NigelUno on 2017-11-19, 14:02

LooseGoose wrote:When you can't attack the facts, attack the messenger.


Standard fare.

Oh...so the far right tells the truth?  



I'm going to just drop this picture right here:  


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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-11-20, 18:24

Turtleneck wrote:1. Byron York has proven to be a strong defender of the president. If this is about objectivity, why is he more credible than those who you perceive as being opposed to the president? Logically speaking, it does not make much sense to call it "case closed" after reading a single article from a partisan source.

2. I wonder if the president contributed to the problem York is describing with his own words. From a July, 2016, interview with Trump,

STEPHANOPOULOS: Then why did you soften the GOP platform on Ukraine?

TRUMP: I wasn't involved in that. Honestly, I was not involved.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Your people were.

TRUMP: Yes. I was not involved in that. I'd like to -- I'd have to take a look at it. But I was not involved in that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you know what they did?

TRUMP: They softened it, I heard, but I was not involved.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-donald-trump-vice-president-joe-biden/story?id=41020870

More to the point, York's article does not dismiss what seems to be at the heart of the issue: the Trump campaign worked to exclude language that supported providing Ukrainian forces with "lethal defensive weapons." As York's article says,

The first thing to note is that Denman's amendment, had it been added to the platform at the length she proposed it, would have given Ukraine an outsized presence in the platform. Besides, Denman's first paragraph basically repeated points that were already in the platform. So it seems highly unlikely that Denman's amendment would have been added to the platform in its entirety.

But the core of Denman's addition was in the second paragraph, in which she sought to add support of sanctions and "lethal defensive weapons" for Ukraine. While many Republicans support lethal aid, it would also be entirely reasonable not to include it — to leave an explicit commitment out of a platform that had already promised to "not accept any territorial change in Eastern Europe imposed by force, in Ukraine or elsewhere."

When Denman proposed her amendment, a Trump national security aide named J.D. Gordon, who was in the room, wanted to edit it. According to Denman, Gordon got on the phone, saying he was calling "New York" to discuss the changes.

The end result was that at the behest of the Trump campaign, the platform committee took out the first paragraph of Denman's amendment altogether. They took out the reference to "lethal defensive weapons" from the second paragraph. But they approved her statement of support for maintaining, and possibly increasing, sanctions against Russia, and, in the place of lethal aid, substituted a pledge to provide "appropriate assistance to the armed forces of Ukraine" and to work more closely with NATO.

3. Given that Tillerson has since shuttered the State Department's sanctions office, and the way Trump has publically approached NATO relations, I am not sure supporting increased sanctions and working through NATO are representative of a strengthened the platform. Overall, there are is a large disconnect between what York claims, and some of the content is his article. He does not, from my perspective, adequately explain this disconnect. Why is it that you believe this is a fabricated story?

LooseGoose wrote:

You guys keep swallowing all the shit these turds are feeding you.

Loose, York seems to contradict himself in his article. I know, because you're not a turd swallower, that you would not read a single article from one source and say "case closed." That would violate your own logic and commitment to objectively analyzing the Trump administration. Can you clarify my comments for me? It would be a big help. Thanks.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-11-21, 21:26

Loose, are you just swallowing York's turds, or can you offer an explanation?

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Rocinante on 2017-11-22, 11:25

Man if you haven't listened to Jake Bernstein on Fresh Air a couple days ago, the story is starting to become clear with the Panama and Paradise Papers and Russia's development of Trump as an asset for decades. It goes so deep. I don't know what Mueller is getting into, but this conspiracy basically spans the whole globe, and the connections to Trump's cabinet are staggering.

Jake Bernstein on Fresh Air

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-11-24, 13:24

This is an interesting read. Pro American/Democracy/Liberal Russians are denouncing the Russia/Trump links because they feel that it portrays Putin as some sort of geopolitical genius. They're probably mostly right in my guesstimation. There's more to it than that but some interesting perspective.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/world/europe/russia-vladimir-putin-liberals.html

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-11-24, 20:36

Rocinante wrote:Man if you haven't listened to Jake Bernstein on Fresh Air a couple days ago, the story is starting to become clear with the Panama and Paradise Papers and Russia's development of Trump as an asset for decades. It goes so deep. I don't know what Mueller is getting into, but this conspiracy basically spans the whole globe, and the connections to Trump's cabinet are staggering.

Jake Bernstein on Fresh Air

People have lost their minds.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Rocinante on 2017-11-24, 21:09

LooseGoose wrote:
Rocinante wrote:Man if you haven't listened to Jake Bernstein on Fresh Air a couple days ago, the story is starting to become clear with the Panama and Paradise Papers and Russia's development of Trump as an asset for decades. It goes so deep. I don't know what Mueller is getting into, but this conspiracy basically spans the whole globe, and the connections to Trump's cabinet are staggering.

Jake Bernstein on Fresh Air

People have lost their minds.

Good quality informative post Goose.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Rocinante on 2017-11-24, 21:16

PS the rich don’t pay taxes.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-11-24, 23:15

LooseGoose wrote:
Rocinante wrote:Man if you haven't listened to Jake Bernstein on Fresh Air a couple days ago, the story is starting to become clear with the Panama and Paradise Papers and Russia's development of Trump as an asset for decades. It goes so deep. I don't know what Mueller is getting into, but this conspiracy basically spans the whole globe, and the connections to Trump's cabinet are staggering.

Jake Bernstein on Fresh Air

People have lost their minds.

You’re lucky enough to have never possessed one to lose.

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-11-25, 00:00

Roy Moore's wife: Trump 'owes us a thank you' for diverting attention from Russia
http://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/roy-moores-wife-president-trump-owes-us-diverting/story?id=51229306

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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-11-25, 11:33

Bumping for Goose



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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2017-12-01, 13:14

Where Goose at?!?!?
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Re: Russia and Trump

Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2017-12-01, 13:21

My friend Goose picked a good week to make himself scarce.
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Re: Russia and Trump

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