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Serious Question about Obama/#LIBS

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Post by InTenSity 2017-01-23, 08:11

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Wow. That is a profoundly stupid thing to say. Just breathtaking.

Yeah intensity care to elaborate on that one ?
Looking at national politics, the Christian right will have more of a chance to enact whatever crazy shit they'd want to do, than Muslims ever will. I guess I should have said that in the US, I'm more worried about the christian right than I am about sharia law. Without there being a huge change in demographics I don't think that sharia law will ever be something I'll have to worry about following in the US.
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Post by Guest 2017-01-23, 09:34

InTenSity wrote:Looking at national politics, the Christian right will have more of a chance to enact whatever crazy shit they'd want to do, than Muslims ever will. I guess I should have said that in the US, I'm more worried about the christian right than I am about sharia law. Without there being a huge change in demographics I don't think that sharia law will ever be something I'll have to worry about following in the US.

Can you be more specific on "crazy shit"? I don't know what the Christian right has in mind that's bothering you. I'm doubting it's the 3rd Sunday of the month potluck dinner so I'd like to know what you think they're up to.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2017-01-23, 09:38

the "christian" right has already shown that they don't have a problem with their leader sexually assaulting women.

however.. if a Muslim leader in, say, Iran or Pakistan had openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, I'm sure the fine "christians" in America would have something to say about it..
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-01-23, 10:02

Cameron wrote:
InTenSity wrote: Not anymore, the Christian right scares me more than sharia law.

Wow. That is a profoundly stupid thing to say. Just breathtaking.

Not really. What is more concerning, the mosquito in your living room or the anaconda in Brazil? The Christian Right probably represents a lot more than a mosquito, but you get the point. Really, for a rational person, this 4 pound puppy sitting next to me that spent most of the morning biting my hand is more worrisome than sharia law is.
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Post by xsanguine 2017-01-23, 11:00

Have you guys figured it out yet or still wondering why people don't like having elitists peering down their nose at them while referring to them in disparaging terms?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2017-01-23, 11:04

xsanguine wrote:Have you guys figured it out yet or still wondering why people don't like having elitists peering down their nose at them while referring to them in disparaging terms?
agree completely.

The Black Lives Matter movement, Planned Parenthood advocates, those evil people in Hollywood, musicians, environmentalists, anti-death penalty advocate, pro-gun control folks, educated progressives, union members, members of the LGBTQ community, etc should not be stereotyped, generalized and referred to in disparaging terms.


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Post by DWags 2017-01-23, 11:12

xsanguine wrote:Have you guys figured it out yet or still wondering why people don't like having elitists peering down their nose at them while referring to them in disparaging terms?

The recipe is universal. Find a wound common to many, someone to blame for it and a good story to tell. Mix it all together. Tell the wounded you know how they feel. That you found the bad guys. Label them: the minorities, the politicians, the businessmen. Cartoon them. As vermin, evil masterminds, flavourless hipsters, you name it. Then paint yourself as the saviour. Capture their imagination. Forget about policies and plans, just enrapture them with a good story. One that starts in anger and ends in vengeance. A vengeance they can participate in.

That’s how it becomes a movement. There’s something soothing in all that anger. Though full of hatred, it promises redemption. Populism can’t cure your suffering, but it can do something almost as good — better in some ways: it can build a satisfying narrative around it. A fictionalized account of your misery. A promise to make sense of your hurt. It is them. It’s been them all along.

For all those who listen, Populism is built on the irresistible allure of simplicity. The narcotic of the simple answer to an intractable question. The problem is now made simple. The problem is you.

I'd sincerely like to apologize to you for making you vote that way.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2017-01-23, 11:21

DWags wrote:
xsanguine wrote:Have you guys figured it out yet or still wondering why people don't like having elitists peering down their nose at them while referring to them in disparaging terms?

The recipe is universal. Find a wound common to many, someone to blame for it and a good story to tell. Mix it all together. Tell the wounded you know how they feel. That you found the bad guys. Label them: the minorities, the politicians, the businessmen. Cartoon them. As vermin, evil masterminds, flavourless hipsters, you name it. Then paint yourself as the saviour. Capture their imagination. Forget about policies and plans, just enrapture them with a good story. One that starts in anger and ends in vengeance. A vengeance they can participate in.

That’s how it becomes a movement. There’s something soothing in all that anger. Though full of hatred, it promises redemption. Populism can’t cure your suffering, but it can do something almost as good — better in some ways: it can build a satisfying narrative around it. A fictionalized account of your misery. A promise to make sense of your hurt. It is them. It’s been them all along.

For all those who listen, Populism is built on the irresistible allure of simplicity. The narcotic of the simple answer to an intractable question. The problem is now made simple. The problem is you.

I'd sincerely like to apologize to you for making you vote that way.
hey now.. I don't appreciate the personal attack.

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Post by MiamiSpartan 2017-01-23, 12:32

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
This led me to think more about the OP, the concept of "teams" as OTPT puts it, etc. Are we that divided along party lines and policy in this country that this is what this boils down to?
Yes, that's absolutely what it is. I'm not sure that it's all that new of a thing, however. I wonder if it's just that everything is so much more exacerbated by the internet. On top of so much greater access to news, and media outlets of any niche worldview that you can imagine, every average dumb ass on the street has a voice that can be heard (read) by hundreds, thousands, sometimes millions of people.

But is the divide really new? Go back to any time in this country's history, however united we think the country was at a certain time, and there was still a shit ton of petty partisan bickering. Revolution and early days of this country? It took 13 years from the time that we declared Independence, and 6 year from the time the Cym Jims finally gave up, to come up with a Constitution....which still left tons of bickering for decades. Many politicians who were firmly against the South, Slavery, etc. in the Civil War, still detested Lincoln. Even during WWII, Republicans would tear into FDR on many things. Bush Sr went from what, a 95% approval rating to less than 40% of the vote in 18 months.

To most politicians and those that work for them, it's just a game, so the "teams" analogy is very appropriate. It's somewhat of an important game to them, as their jobs/careers depend on it, but the actual politics of it, is just a game. Saw this first hand working for an ad agency/PR firm that handled a lot of political accounts, many years ago. One guy, when I first met him, would brag about winning a national award for best negative campaign ad. About a year later, he quit to work in minor league baseball (baseball being a passion of his). Said he was tired of ruining people's lives for a living. He's hardly the only one to have that sort of epiphany, and if someone is still working in politics, they likely haven't had it.

Look at how much trouble a moderate third party has in getting started, even though half the country are not really Republicans or Democrats. Those parties will put so much money behind squashing anything like that. It took Ross Perot's own very deep pockets to make a little bit of a dent in that, but it couldn't last with no one else to pick that, or the funding, up. Keeping with the game analogy, it's like UM and OSU wanting a return to the Big 2, and always trying to push down the teams that challenge that. It's a lot easier to play a game with one adversary than with multiple adversaries.
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Post by Guest 2017-01-23, 12:50

MiamiSpartan wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
This led me to think more about the OP, the concept of "teams" as OTPT puts it, etc. Are we that divided along party lines and policy in this country that this is what this boils down to?
Yes, that's absolutely what it is. I'm not sure that it's all that new of a thing, however. I wonder if it's just that everything is so much more exacerbated by the internet. On top of so much greater access to news, and media outlets of any niche worldview that you can imagine, every average dumb ass on the street has a voice that can be heard (read) by hundreds, thousands, sometimes millions of people.

But is the divide really new? Go back to any time in this country's history, however united we think the country was at a certain time, and there was still a shit ton of petty partisan bickering. Revolution and early days of this country? It took 13 years from the time that we declared Independence, and 6 year from the time the Cym Jims finally gave up, to come up with a Constitution....which still left tons of bickering for decades. Many politicians who were firmly against the South, Slavery, etc. in the Civil War, still detested Lincoln. Even during WWII, Republicans would tear into FDR on many things. Bush Sr went from what, a 95% approval rating to less than 40% of the vote in 18 months.

To most politicians and those that work for them, it's just a game, so the "teams" analogy is very appropriate. It's somewhat of an important game to them, as their jobs/careers depend on it, but the actual politics of it, is just a game. Saw this first hand working for an ad agency/PR firm that handled a lot of political accounts, many years ago. One guy, when I first met him, would brag about winning a national award for best negative campaign ad. About a year later, he quit to work in minor league baseball (baseball being a passion of his). Said he was tired of ruining people's lives for a living. He's hardly the only one to have that sort of epiphany, and if someone is still working in politics, they likely haven't had it.

Look at how much trouble a moderate third party has in getting started, even though half the country are not really Republicans or Democrats. Those parties will put so much money behind squashing anything like that. It took Ross Perot's own very deep pockets to make a little bit of a dent in that, but it couldn't last with no one else to pick that, or the funding, up. Keeping with the game analogy, it's like UM and OSU wanting a return to the Big 2, and always trying to push down the teams that challenge that. It's a lot easier to play a game with one adversary than with multiple adversaries.

And for anyone lamenting 2 parties, divided country and ugly elections go read your history on the elections of 1824 and 1828.


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Post by Cameron 2017-01-23, 13:15

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Wow. That is a profoundly stupid thing to say. Just breathtaking.

Not really. What is more concerning, the mosquito in your living room or the anaconda in Brazil? The Christian Right probably represents a lot more than a mosquito, but you get the point. Really, for a rational person, this 4 pound puppy sitting next to me that spent most of the morning biting my hand is more worrisome than sharia law is.
Well, yes, framed that way, obviously Sharia law is not something to worry about. I was taking that comment to mean that the values and practices espoused by the Christian right were more worrying than those espoused by Sharia law, which is obviously crazy.
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Post by Watch Out Pylon! 2017-01-23, 13:31

Cameron wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Not really. What is more concerning, the mosquito in your living room or the anaconda in Brazil? The Christian Right probably represents a lot more than a mosquito, but you get the point. Really, for a rational person, this 4 pound puppy sitting next to me that spent most of the morning biting my hand is more worrisome than sharia law is.
Well, yes, framed that way, obviously Sharia law is not something to worry about. I was taking that comment to mean that the values and practices espoused by the Christian right were more worrying than those espoused by Sharia law, which is obviously crazy.

The internet told me that Dearborn is already under Sharia law.
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Post by MiamiSpartan 2017-01-23, 13:50

LooseGoose wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Yes, that's absolutely what it is.  I'm not sure that it's all that new of a thing, however.  I wonder if it's just that everything is so much more exacerbated by the internet.  On top of so much greater access to news, and media outlets of any niche worldview that you can imagine, every average dumb ass on the street has a voice that can be heard (read) by hundreds, thousands, sometimes millions of people.

But is the divide really new?  Go back to any time in this country's history, however united we think the country was at a certain time, and there was still a shit ton of petty partisan bickering.  Revolution and early days of this country?  It took 13 years from the time that we declared Independence, and 6 year from the time the Cym Jims finally gave up, to come up with a Constitution....which still left tons of bickering for decades.  Many politicians who were firmly against the South, Slavery, etc. in the Civil War, still detested Lincoln.  Even during WWII, Republicans would tear into FDR on many things.  Bush Sr went from what, a 95% approval rating to less than 40% of the vote in 18 months.

To most politicians and those that work for them, it's just a game, so the "teams" analogy is very appropriate.  It's somewhat of an important game to them, as their jobs/careers depend on it, but the actual politics of it, is just a game.  Saw this first hand working for an ad agency/PR firm that handled a lot of political accounts, many years ago.  One guy, when I first met him, would brag about winning a national award for best negative campaign ad.  About a year later, he quit to work in minor league baseball (baseball being a passion of his).  Said he was tired of ruining people's lives for a living.  He's hardly the only one to have that sort of epiphany, and if someone is still working in politics, they likely haven't had it.  

Look at how much trouble a moderate third party has in getting started, even though half the country are not really Republicans or Democrats.  Those parties will put so much money behind squashing anything like that.  It took Ross Perot's own very deep pockets to make a little bit of a dent in that, but it couldn't last with no one else to pick that, or the funding, up.  Keeping with the game analogy, it's like UM and OSU wanting a return to the Big 2, and always trying to push down the teams that challenge that.  It's a lot easier to play a game with one adversary than with multiple adversaries.

And for anyone lamenting 2 parties, divided country and ugly elections go read your history on the elections of 1824 and 1828.


Yeah, but a couple of elections from nearly 200 years ago is hardly a reason to only have 2 legitimate parties who represent the extremes, while forcing the majority of the country to have to choose between those extremes (ok, there are extremes even further to the right and left--and off the chart altogether--which sadly are what constitutes third parties, but I think everyone knows what I'm getting at).  While a strong enough third party could definitely pose the problem of not reaching a clear majority of electoral votes, I'd file that under "let's cross that bridge when we come to it".  

Don't make fans choose between only Michigan and Ohio State, just because MSU or Wisconsin or Iowa won't get ESPN slobbering enough.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-01-23, 14:02

Cameron wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Not really. What is more concerning, the mosquito in your living room or the anaconda in Brazil? The Christian Right probably represents a lot more than a mosquito, but you get the point. Really, for a rational person, this 4 pound puppy sitting next to me that spent most of the morning biting my hand is more worrisome than sharia law is.
Well, yes, framed that way, obviously Sharia law is not something to worry about. I was taking that comment to mean that the values and practices espoused by the Christian right were more worrying than those espoused by Sharia law, which is obviously crazy.

This puppy is getting pretty fucking annoying Cameron. Like "oh you peed outside for the first time all day. Good fucking job. I've cleaned up your piss twice already and I'm pretty sure you pooed somewhere in here. You want a fucking medal? Fuck."
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Post by xsanguine 2017-01-23, 17:37

DWags wrote:
xsanguine wrote:Have you guys figured it out yet or still wondering why people don't like having elitists peering down their nose at them while referring to them in disparaging terms?

The recipe is universal. Find a wound common to many, someone to blame for it and a good story to tell. Mix it all together. Tell the wounded you know how they feel. That you found the bad guys. Label them: the minorities, the politicians, the businessmen. Cartoon them. As vermin, evil masterminds, flavourless hipsters, you name it. Then paint yourself as the saviour. Capture their imagination. Forget about policies and plans, just enrapture them with a good story. One that starts in anger and ends in vengeance. A vengeance they can participate in.

That’s how it becomes a movement. There’s something soothing in all that anger. Though full of hatred, it promises redemption. Populism can’t cure your suffering, but it can do something almost as good — better in some ways: it can build a satisfying narrative around it. A fictionalized account of your misery. A promise to make sense of your hurt. It is them. It’s been them all along.

For all those who listen, Populism is built on the irresistible allure of simplicity. The narcotic of the simple answer to an intractable question. The problem is now made simple. The problem is you.

I'd sincerely like to apologize to you for making you vote that way.

What way did I vote, Dwags?
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Post by xsanguine 2017-01-23, 17:43

I was just wondering if we figured out why those white trailer trash rednecks toting guns and bibles aren't voting the way I want them to. I assume it's because they're so much dumber than I am because they don't have the same opinion. Of course, I'd like to hear from the knuckle dragging, impacted bowel conservatives why they aren't voting smart like me?

I mean, it's not because I look down on people who wear belt buckles, flannel (in a non-ironic way) or moronic looking straw hats. Of course not. I know it's not because of any of those views.
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Post by DWags 2017-01-23, 18:30

xsanguine wrote:I was just wondering if we figured out why those white trailer trash rednecks toting guns and bibles aren't voting the way I want them to. I assume it's because they're so much dumber than I am because they don't have the same opinion. Of course, I'd like to hear from the knuckle dragging, impacted bowel conservatives why they aren't voting smart like me?

I mean, it's not because I look down on people who wear belt buckles, flannel (in a non-ironic way) or moronic looking straw hats. Of course not. I know it's not because of any of those views.

You sound angry enough to vote for a populist.
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Post by xsanguine 2017-01-23, 18:32

DWags wrote:
xsanguine wrote:I was just wondering if we figured out why those white trailer trash rednecks toting guns and bibles aren't voting the way I want them to. I assume it's because they're so much dumber than I am because they don't have the same opinion. Of course, I'd like to hear from the knuckle dragging, impacted bowel conservatives why they aren't voting smart like me?

I mean, it's not because I look down on people who wear belt buckles, flannel (in a non-ironic way) or moronic looking straw hats. Of course not. I know it's not because of any of those views.

You sound angry enough to vote for a populist.

That's the point.
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Post by DWags 2017-01-23, 18:44

xsanguine wrote:
DWags wrote:

You sound angry enough to vote for a populist.

That's the point.

Hey, it worked. Baaaahhhh. Feel better?
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Post by xsanguine 2017-01-23, 18:46

DWags wrote:
xsanguine wrote:

That's the point.

Hey, it worked. Baaaahhhh. Feel better?

You realize I was lampooning the foundation and ideology of this thread, right?
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Post by DWags 2017-01-23, 18:49

xsanguine wrote:
DWags wrote:

Hey, it worked. Baaaahhhh. Feel better?

You realize I was lampooning the foundation and ideology of this thread, right?

I still think you voted for the populist. Just a feeling.
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Post by xsanguine 2017-01-23, 18:53

DWags wrote:
xsanguine wrote:

You realize I was lampooning the foundation and ideology of this thread, right?

I still think you voted for the populist. Just a feeling.

Good thing you never became a detective, Dwags. Razz
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Post by Cameron 2017-01-23, 19:42

xsanguine wrote:I was just wondering if we figured out why those white trailer trash rednecks toting guns and bibles aren't voting the way I want them to. I assume it's because they're so much dumber than I am because they don't have the same opinion. Of course, I'd like to hear from the knuckle dragging, impacted bowel conservatives why they aren't voting smart like me?

I mean, it's not because I look down on people who wear belt buckles, flannel (in a non-ironic way) or moronic looking straw hats. Of course not. I know it's not because of any of those views.
To be fair, straw hats look dumb as shit.
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Post by DWags 2017-01-23, 20:26

xsanguine wrote:
DWags wrote:

I still think you voted for the populist. Just a feeling.

Good thing you never became a detective, Dwags. Razz

Nor a jackass that fell for a populist.
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Post by DWags 2017-01-23, 20:27

Cameron wrote:
xsanguine wrote:I was just wondering if we figured out why those white trailer trash rednecks toting guns and bibles aren't voting the way I want them to. I assume it's because they're so much dumber than I am because they don't have the same opinion. Of course, I'd like to hear from the knuckle dragging, impacted bowel conservatives why they aren't voting smart like me?

I mean, it's not because I look down on people who wear belt buckles, flannel (in a non-ironic way) or moronic looking straw hats. Of course not. I know it's not because of any of those views.
To be fair, straw hats look dumb as shit.

Not if you're in a quartet.
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Post by xsanguine 2017-01-23, 20:39

DWags wrote:
xsanguine wrote:

Good thing you never became a detective, Dwags. Razz

Nor a jackass that fell for a populist.

Never do that.
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