Football rumors (Merged)

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by DWags on 2017-06-06, 12:17

"Monday’s meeting was a chance for Dantonio to explain his program — the discipline structure, organization, etc. — to board members who are less familiar with the inner workings of a major college football program."

This is what I was saying yesterday. Board members have the absolute right to ask Dantonio questions regarding his program. It's frankly their duty to if they are not informed like other board members. I would have questions about WHAT APPEARS to be the wheels falling off. Not that they are, but I'd have questions regarding the appearance. Sounds like they asked and liked the answers.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-06-06, 12:30

PC is on BTN if you want to watch it.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-06, 12:55

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:PC is on BTN if you want to watch it.

I think CoachD has been very solid up there.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Death Roe on 2017-06-06, 12:56

Coach D is killing it.

My faith in him is definitely reaffirmed.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by DWags on 2017-06-06, 13:51


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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by SeeRockCity on 2017-06-06, 14:11


Idiots. Sounds like they went right from the Title IX class talking about not raping women to raping women. Wonder if they had time to shower first.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2017-06-06, 14:47

A lot of people calling them "stupid" or "idiots". No. I mean, yeah, they are, but being drunk and still driving home is stupid and idiotic. Getting in a fight at a bar is stupid and idiotic. Calling these guys stupid and idiotic is being wayyyyyy to fucking nice to them.

These guys are flat out fucking assholes, dickheads, pieces of shit. Rape is a crime of violence, not passion. It's not "Oh, I'm horny, I need some pussy or a bj". It's about power and forcing someone to bend to your will. How can you fucking do that in a situation like that? God dammit, I can't even imagine how big of a turn off it would be to have a girl crying and saying, "No, please stop!" But these pieces of shit got off on that, and kept going. And King fucking recorded it. Fucking evil monsters, the whole bunch of them.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by SeeRockCity on 2017-06-06, 15:33

MiamiSpartan wrote:A lot of people calling them "stupid" or "idiots". No. I mean, yeah, they are, but being drunk and still driving home is stupid and idiotic. Getting in a fight at a bar is stupid and idiotic. Calling these guys stupid and idiotic is being wayyyyyy to fucking nice to them.

These guys are flat out fucking assholes, dickheads, pieces of shit. Rape is a crime of violence, not passion. It's not "Oh, I'm horny, I need some pussy or a bj". It's about power and forcing someone to bend to your will. How can you fucking do that in a situation like that? God dammit, I can't even imagine how big of a turn off it would be to have a girl crying and saying, "No, please stop!" But these pieces of shit got off on that, and kept going. And King fucking recorded it. Fucking evil monsters, the whole bunch of them.

I think that is implied. Most people are saying that in addition to being all those things, they are also stupid.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2017-06-06, 16:31

SeeRockCity wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:A lot of people calling them "stupid" or "idiots". No. I mean, yeah, they are, but being drunk and still driving home is stupid and idiotic. Getting in a fight at a bar is stupid and idiotic. Calling these guys stupid and idiotic is being wayyyyyy to fucking nice to them.

These guys are flat out fucking assholes, dickheads, pieces of shit. Rape is a crime of violence, not passion. It's not "Oh, I'm horny, I need some pussy or a bj". It's about power and forcing someone to bend to your will. How can you fucking do that in a situation like that? God dammit, I can't even imagine how big of a turn off it would be to have a girl crying and saying, "No, please stop!" But these pieces of shit got off on that, and kept going. And King fucking recorded it. Fucking evil monsters, the whole bunch of them.

I think that is implied. Most people are saying that in addition to being all those things, they are also stupid.
Oh, I know. I didn't mean that there's anyone that doesn't think that they're assholes. Just that calling them stupid feels so tame.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-06-06, 16:51

So many people immediately pouncing on these guys as monsters. Maybe they are, but maybe they aren't. I learned a long time ago the police and prosecutors have a tendency to overstate things. Therefore, until it's determined to be factual and truthful, I'm going to wait for the trials so I can hear from all sides before making up my mind. I'm sorry to learn I'm in the minority here.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Cameron on 2017-06-06, 17:25

tGreenWay wrote:So many people immediately pouncing on these guys as monsters. Maybe they are, but maybe they aren't. I learned a long time ago the police and prosecutors have a tendency to overstate things. Therefore, until it's determined to be factual and truthful, I'm going to wait for the trials so I can hear from all sides before making up my mind. I'm sorry to learn I'm in the minority here.

Under different circumstances I might agree with you, but being that there is video of the incident and charges are being brought and they've been kicked off the team... I feel that the totality of what we know warrants jumping to some conclusions.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Herbie Green on 2017-06-06, 17:27

What an asswipe Seidel is if you read his column from last night about MSU hiding and Dantonio sneaking out the backdoor.
Well today they pressed charges and released the names and here is Dantonio standing up like a man and taking questions
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-06, 17:33

Herbie Green wrote:What an asswipe Seidel is if you read his column from last night about MSU hiding and Dantonio sneaking out the backdoor.
Well today they pressed charges and released the names and here is Dantonio standing up like a man and taking questions

I read it and didn't link it because it was a cheap shot. I don't mind criticism but there's a line between being critical, demanding excellence and throwing cheap shots because you can.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by steveschneider on 2017-06-06, 17:36

http://www.freep.com/videos/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2017/06/06/takeaways-msus-news-conference-sexual-assault-charges/102554410/

Fucking amateur hour. Watch the start of the video, that shit should be on the cutting room floor.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-06, 17:38

Pretty low bond....

Michigan State's Demetric Vance arraigned on sexual assault charge

Vance arrived in court with several family members and and a bishop from his church. All declined to comment following the hearing.

His preliminary examination hearing was set for 9 a.m. June 22, and a probable cause conference is scheduled for 1 p.m. June 15.

The prosecution asked for a $50,000 bond, but Vance's attorney said Vance has no interest in fleeing or contacting the alleged victim and plans to fully fight the charge. Judge Richard Ball set bond at 10 percent of $10,000 and ordered no contact between Vance and the alleged victim.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Floyd Robertson on 2017-06-06, 17:40

Wetzel: It's up to Mark Dantonio to right Michigan State ship after vile sexual assault scandal

It probably shouldn’t be notable that by all accounts Michigan State handled these allegations and the criminal investigation into them properly and without interference. This is college football though, where cover-up scandals are all too common.

Dantonio and athletic director Mark Hollis let the police do their job, suspending, but not naming, the players. It came at a cost – unable to offer much of a comment, the specter of the scandal hovered over the program, which never helps recruiting. Dantonio spent months almost underground, unable to do any promotion for the program. The Spartans, who take pride in never backing down, were forced to, at least temporarily.

All this came at a time when chief rivals Michigan, Ohio State and Notre Dame were racing around assembling talented recruiting classes.

Once the charges were filed, the three players were dismissed. Finally, the coach and athletic director spoke out. This appears to be the un-Baylor approach. For that, Spartan fans can be pleased.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Dendrobates on 2017-06-06, 18:27

After reading what happened and the fact the 3 guys are being charged, I hope they fucking rot. Rape is a disgusting thing to do to someone. They all know that is wrong and should pay.

I hope the victim gets the help that she needs.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2017-06-06, 18:27

Cameron wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:So many people immediately pouncing on these guys as monsters. Maybe they are, but maybe they aren't. I learned a long time ago the police and prosecutors have a tendency to overstate things. Therefore, until it's determined to be factual and truthful, I'm going to wait for the trials so I can hear from all sides before making up my mind. I'm sorry to learn I'm in the minority here.

Under different circumstances I might agree with you, but being that there is video of the incident and charges are being brought and they've been kicked off the team... I feel that the totality of what we know warrants jumping to some conclusions.
Exactly. I try to be in the "let's see how it plays out before jumping to conclusions" camp, but to me it says a lot that in the Court of Dantonio, they committed a terrible infraction. He knows what happened. It is likely he saw the texts, saw the video, and maybe even heard it straight from the players' mouths. I don't think he booted them because of the charges, but rather was waiting for the charges (their names being made public) so that he could do what he's wanted to do for nearly 5 months. When you look at Dantonio's history of letting things play out through the system, giving second chances, etc., I think it says volumes about their guilt in this that he booted them immediately upon their names becoming public.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by kingstonlake on 2017-06-06, 18:34

These three are obviously dumb as fuck and low life scum. My question is, with video evidence, why so long to file charges. Is it a case of the video making it difficult to win a verdict. is there something in it that leaves some sort of prosecutorial doubt in the case. Maybe I'm over thinking it.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MSU addict on 2017-06-06, 19:43

First off, I believe if they have done what is alleged - let them rot.

That said, unless I hear an account from someone who actually saw the video, I am not giving it much weight.  I don't understand why everyone is going off the deep end about "video evidence."  It may be may be quite damning, but it may actually help exonerate them.  

It seems to be trying the case in the court of public opinion.  If that video evidence was so damning - why the fuck does it take four months for charges to be brought?  Why does it the case have to be sent back to the police for more investigation if they had video that left little doubt as to what happened.  How long did it take them to charge Auston Robertson, a week?

Unfortunately in the end, I have a feeling this is still going to be a "they said - she said" case.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-06-06, 19:50

I'm not trying to stop you guys from talking about it, but who cares at this point. Innocent, guilty, varying degrees - no longer our concern. Coach D made the decision to move on without him, he deemed the evidence to be enough that they should not be part of the program. Only concern left here is for the victim.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MSU addict on 2017-06-06, 19:50

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Under different circumstances I might agree with you, but being that there is video of the incident and charges are being brought and they've been kicked off the team... I feel that the totality of what we know warrants jumping to some conclusions.
Exactly. I try to be in the "let's see how it plays out before jumping to conclusions" camp, but to me it says a lot that in the Court of Dantonio, they committed a terrible infraction. He knows what happened. It is likely he saw the texts, saw the video, and maybe even heard it straight from the players' mouths. I don't think he booted them because of the charges, but rather was waiting for the charges (their names being made public) so that he could do what he's wanted to do for nearly 5 months. When you look at Dantonio's history of letting things play out through the system, giving second chances, etc., I think it says volumes about their guilt in this that he booted them immediately upon their names becoming public.
I disagree. From what I know of the Jones Day report they said that Dantonio did not and should not have, conducted any sort of investigation once he became aware of an alleged crime.

Yes, Dantonio kicked them off the team. He had no choice but to do so. Can you imagine the hue and cry that would have occurred if he had not? Can you imagine the cloud hanging over the program if he did not?

He had no choice in the matter what so ever.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Herbie Green on 2017-06-06, 20:48

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'm not trying to stop you guys from talking about it, but who cares at this point. Innocent, guilty, varying degrees - no longer our concern. Coach D made the decision to move on without him, he deemed the evidence to be enough that they should not be part of the program. Only concern left here is for the victim.

Yeah, as far as I am concerned this case is closed as a MSU fan. I suppose though we will have to read every twist and turn of the legal process for months under the headline of MSU sports.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Wally Fairway on 2017-06-06, 21:06

MSU addict wrote:First off, I believe if they have done what is alleged - let them rot.

That said, unless I hear an account from someone who actually saw the video, I am not giving it much weight.  I don't understand why everyone is going off the deep end about "video evidence."  It may be may be quite damning, but it may actually help exonerate them.  

It seems to be trying the case in the court of public opinion.  If that video evidence was so damning - why the fuck does it take four months for charges to be brought?  Why does it the case have to be sent back to the police for more investigation if they had video that left little doubt as to what happened.  How long did it take them to charge Auston Robertson, a week?

Unfortunately in the end, I have a feeling this is still going to be a "they said - she said" case.

What I'm most interested in at this point is - If there is video evidence and as most people are jumping to a guilty conclusion, why in the hell did it take the prosecutor 4 months to decide to press charges?
Something really just doesn't quite seem right, I'm all in for if they raped her then rot. And I have no problem with cutting them loose from the program and the school for being in that situation...but I'll wait to see what happens in court.
I'm hoping that they don't take a plea, if they really think they are innocent. But that will barely make the news, which is right. Because if they were not MSU football players they would be like the other 100 cases heard every month in Ingham county - for drugs, drunk driving, homicide, CSC, etc that we never hear about.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by steveschneider on 2017-06-06, 21:34

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'm not trying to stop you guys from talking about it, but who cares at this point. Innocent, guilty, varying degrees - no longer our concern. Coach D made the decision to move on without him, he deemed the evidence to be enough that they should not be part of the program. Only concern left here is for the victim.

I'm with you not really much more to say at this juncture. Time to just let the whole thing play out.

All of our questions will be answered in due time.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-06, 23:23


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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-06-06, 23:26

Was just about to post that LG. Just finished watching. Not a huge Mike V fan. Decidedly neutral. That is a must watch, however. Very fair and on point.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-06-06, 23:30


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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-06-06, 23:39

I didn't read Wojo's article but I didn't think anything he said there in that clip was unfair. Basic point = Culture has eroded due to signing higher ranked kids with questionable character and assuming the culture would take care of itself when instead the kids became the culture. Spot on, actually. Other factors involved for sure, but that was certainly part of it. A big part.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by NigelUno on 2017-06-07, 06:53

gHost Spartan wrote:
Wally Fairway wrote:

What I'm most interested in at this point is - If there is video evidence and as most people are jumping to a guilty conclusion, why in the hell did it take the prosecutor 4 months to decide to press charges?
Something really just doesn't quite seem right, I'm all in for if they raped her then rot. And I have no problem with cutting them loose from the program and the school for being in that situation...but I'll wait to see what happens in court.
I'm hoping that they don't take a plea, if they really think they are innocent. But that will barely make the news, which is right. Because if they were not MSU football players they would be like the other 100 cases heard every month in Ingham county - for drugs, drunk driving, homicide, CSC, etc that we never hear about.

The existence of a video doesn't necessarily prove or disprove anything - we simply do not know the content of the video; but the video potentially can bolster or mitigate some of the allegations. Remember, the prosecution has to be able to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt; it's better to be cautious, interview all of the witnesses, collecting other evidence, getting search warrants for the phones, etc. There's a lot more involved than simply taking a few statements and watching a video. On TV they wrap this shit up in an hour but not in real life, a lot depends on the evidence.

To respond to Green Way, I kind of agree with you but I see Corley and Vance more as incredibly intoxicated opportunists than violent rapists. Good people can commit horrendous crimes. As an attorney, I feel strongly about due process of law and being innocent until proven guilty (see Duke Lax). But I gotta admit that it looks bad for these kids. Tragic all around, so many lives ruined for what, nothing.

My guess is that at least two if not all of them will be imprisoned within the next year.

I didn't read or listen to all the links...is there video of all 3? Or just King?

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-07, 09:05

Matt Charboneau‏ @mattcharboneau 1m1 minute ago
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Donnie Corley has been arraigned in 54B District Court this morning. Josh King should be here shortly for his arraignment

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-07, 10:06

Matt Charboneau‏ @mattcharboneau 5m5 minutes ago
More
King arraignment complete. Attorney said video on his phone will show the incident was consensual

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by kingstonlake on 2017-06-07, 10:35

LooseGoose wrote:Matt Charboneau‏ @mattcharboneau 5m5 minutes ago
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King arraignment complete. Attorney said video on his phone will show the incident was consensual

Hmmmmmmmm
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Cameron on 2017-06-07, 10:46

Maybe that will be the case, but I can't imagine the police/prosecutor haven't seen the video, and I can't imagine they'd have brought charges if they thought it would sink their case. But police and prosecutors don't always act in good faith, so maybe.

And regardless, wasn't the creation of the video itself a crime?
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MSU addict on 2017-06-07, 10:54

Cameron wrote:Maybe that will be the case, but I can't imagine the police/prosecutor haven't seen the video, and I can't imagine they'd have brought charges if they thought it would sink their case. But police and prosecutors don't always act in good faith, so maybe.

And regardless, wasn't the creation of the video itself a crime?
I am of the opinion that if it was particularly damning it would not have taken four months to charge.

It seems to me more about trying the case in the court of public opinion (which I disdain).  Most everyone here jumped off the deep end when it they said they had "video evidence."

He was also charged with capturing an image of an unclothed person without consent.  Which again may be more about bringing multiple charges for a potential plea than anything else.

In the end, I believe these will unfortunately be "he said - she said" cases.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-06-07, 10:57

I believe Cameron is correct. The video may show the sex act(s) to be consensual but the woman didn't give her consent to be video'ed.

Creating and possibly distributing the video without participants consent is a crime but it isn't sexual assault.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by steveschneider on 2017-06-07, 11:25

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I didn't read Wojo's article but I didn't think anything he said there in that clip was unfair. Basic point = Culture has eroded due to signing higher ranked kids with questionable character and assuming the culture would take care of itself when instead the kids became the culture. Spot on, actually. Other factors involved for sure, but that was certainly part of it. A big part.

I'm not much of a sports radio guy and it hurt my brain listening to that but it seemed like Valenti's beef with Wojo was that Wojo was trying to paint MSU as a terrible culture since the Rosebowl. A lot of unrelated player issues that got thrown together in his article to cast MSU in a negative light.



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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-06-07, 11:29

Yeah I agree with that, and I agree with Valenti - that much is stupid. Max Bullough and Connor Cook not being a captain have little to do with what has happened to the program over the past 6-9 months.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2017-06-07, 11:37

Cameron wrote:Maybe that will be the case, but I can't imagine the police/prosecutor haven't seen the video, and I can't imagine they'd have brought charges if they thought it would sink their case. But police and prosecutors don't always act in good faith, so maybe.

And regardless, wasn't the creation of the video itself a crime?
I think the video is limited. The articles I've read said that King recorded him having sex with her. It did not say that he recorded the forced BJ, or the forced BJ on Corely and Vance. So it could very well be that her telling him No was before the video started. She doesn't have to be shouting NO throughout the whole thing, or kicking and clawing at him, for it to be non-consensual.

I'm sure the defense attorneys are going to try to interpret the video as showing it as consensual. I'm sure it's not so obviously consensual that it clears him or there wouldn't have been charges, but it may be ambiguous enough that this is why the video wasn't hard evidence for charges.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by steveschneider on 2017-06-07, 11:38

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Yeah I agree with that, and I agree with Valenti - that much is stupid. Max Bullough and Connor Cook not being a captain have little to do with what has happened to the program over the past 6-9 months.

Yeah, it was painful trying to listen to him make a connection that just isn't there. I didn't really follow what Malik Mcdowell last season had anything to do with this either?

My .02 is Malik saw the Spartan season was a bust and he mailed it in last year to protect his draft stock. Why is his name even being included in this scandal? I just don't see any relation.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

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