Football rumors (Merged)

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by kingstonlake on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 11:35

LooseGoose wrote:Matt Charboneau‏ @mattcharboneau 5m5 minutes ago
More
King arraignment complete. Attorney said video on his phone will show the incident was consensual

Hmmmmmmmm
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Cameron on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 11:46

Maybe that will be the case, but I can't imagine the police/prosecutor haven't seen the video, and I can't imagine they'd have brought charges if they thought it would sink their case. But police and prosecutors don't always act in good faith, so maybe.

And regardless, wasn't the creation of the video itself a crime?
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MSU addict on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 11:54

Cameron wrote:Maybe that will be the case, but I can't imagine the police/prosecutor haven't seen the video, and I can't imagine they'd have brought charges if they thought it would sink their case. But police and prosecutors don't always act in good faith, so maybe.

And regardless, wasn't the creation of the video itself a crime?
I am of the opinion that if it was particularly damning it would not have taken four months to charge.

It seems to me more about trying the case in the court of public opinion (which I disdain).  Most everyone here jumped off the deep end when it they said they had "video evidence."

He was also charged with capturing an image of an unclothed person without consent.  Which again may be more about bringing multiple charges for a potential plea than anything else.

In the end, I believe these will unfortunately be "he said - she said" cases.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by GRR Spartan on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 11:57

I believe Cameron is correct. The video may show the sex act(s) to be consensual but the woman didn't give her consent to be video'ed.

Creating and possibly distributing the video without participants consent is a crime but it isn't sexual assault.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by steveschneider on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 12:25

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I didn't read Wojo's article but I didn't think anything he said there in that clip was unfair. Basic point = Culture has eroded due to signing higher ranked kids with questionable character and assuming the culture would take care of itself when instead the kids became the culture. Spot on, actually. Other factors involved for sure, but that was certainly part of it. A big part.

I'm not much of a sports radio guy and it hurt my brain listening to that but it seemed like Valenti's beef with Wojo was that Wojo was trying to paint MSU as a terrible culture since the Rosebowl. A lot of unrelated player issues that got thrown together in his article to cast MSU in a negative light.



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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 12:29

Yeah I agree with that, and I agree with Valenti - that much is stupid. Max Bullough and Connor Cook not being a captain have little to do with what has happened to the program over the past 6-9 months.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MiamiSpartan on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 12:37

Cameron wrote:Maybe that will be the case, but I can't imagine the police/prosecutor haven't seen the video, and I can't imagine they'd have brought charges if they thought it would sink their case. But police and prosecutors don't always act in good faith, so maybe.

And regardless, wasn't the creation of the video itself a crime?
I think the video is limited. The articles I've read said that King recorded him having sex with her. It did not say that he recorded the forced BJ, or the forced BJ on Corely and Vance. So it could very well be that her telling him No was before the video started. She doesn't have to be shouting NO throughout the whole thing, or kicking and clawing at him, for it to be non-consensual.

I'm sure the defense attorneys are going to try to interpret the video as showing it as consensual. I'm sure it's not so obviously consensual that it clears him or there wouldn't have been charges, but it may be ambiguous enough that this is why the video wasn't hard evidence for charges.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by steveschneider on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 12:38

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Yeah I agree with that, and I agree with Valenti - that much is stupid. Max Bullough and Connor Cook not being a captain have little to do with what has happened to the program over the past 6-9 months.

Yeah, it was painful trying to listen to him make a connection that just isn't there. I didn't really follow what Malik Mcdowell last season had anything to do with this either?

My .02 is Malik saw the Spartan season was a bust and he mailed it in last year to protect his draft stock. Why is his name even being included in this scandal? I just don't see any relation.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MiamiSpartan on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 12:49

MSU addict wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Exactly. I try to be in the "let's see how it plays out before jumping to conclusions" camp, but to me it says a lot that in the Court of Dantonio, they committed a terrible infraction. He knows what happened. It is likely he saw the texts, saw the video, and maybe even heard it straight from the players' mouths. I don't think he booted them because of the charges, but rather was waiting for the charges (their names being made public) so that he could do what he's wanted to do for nearly 5 months. When you look at Dantonio's history of letting things play out through the system, giving second chances, etc., I think it says volumes about their guilt in this that he booted them immediately upon their names becoming public.
I disagree. From what I know of the Jones Day report they said that Dantonio did not and should not have, conducted any sort of investigation once he became aware of an alleged crime.

Yes, Dantonio kicked them off the team. He had no choice but to do so. Can you imagine the hue and cry that would have occurred if he had not? Can you imagine the cloud hanging over the program if he did not?

He had no choice in the matter what so ever.
When I said the "Court of Dantonio", I was being metaphorical, not indicating that he actually investigated it. But he was alerted to it by another player. We also know a 4th player, who was not involved, was included on a group text with the 3 where they discussed the incident. There's probably a good chance that the 4th player told Dantonio. My point is that Dantonio knew enough about what happened to know that these guys did this shit, to at least an extent. I don't think he booted them just for PR sake. He absolutely had a choice to not kick them off the team at this point. He could have left them as suspended, while letting the legal process play itself out. That's usually his M.O. I have no doubt that he knows they did some awful shit, and that's why they're gone, regardless of the legal outcome.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Herbie Green on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 12:51

MSU addict wrote:
Cameron wrote:Maybe that will be the case, but I can't imagine the police/prosecutor haven't seen the video, and I can't imagine they'd have brought charges if they thought it would sink their case. But police and prosecutors don't always act in good faith, so maybe.

And regardless, wasn't the creation of the video itself a crime?
I am of the opinion that if it was particularly damning it would not have taken four months to charge.

It seems to me more about trying the case in the court of public opinion (which I disdain).  Most everyone here jumped off the deep end when it they said they had "video evidence."

He was also charged with capturing an image of an unclothed person without consent.  Which again may be more about bringing multiple charges for a potential plea than anything else.

In the end, I believe these will unfortunately be "he said - she said" cases.

I don't know what you meant by unfortunate, but it is unfortunate because these cases are often so hard to prove and get convictions, which doesn't necessarily mean they proven innocent.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Rocinante on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 13:04

It appears that MD knew he wanted to get rid of these guys from jump street and was just waiting for the charges to be filed. Assuming he knows what happened, I'm completely fine with people jumping to conclusions, because he's proven to be nothing but an honorable dude.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Rocinante on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 13:06

What really sucks is that Blackwell, who was, by all accounts a great asset to recruiting went and fucked himself in the ass over this. disappointed as hell he didn't have more integrity.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MSU addict on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 13:24

MiamiSpartan wrote:
MSU addict wrote:I disagree. From what I know of the Jones Day report they said that Dantonio did not and should not have, conducted any sort of investigation once he became aware of an alleged crime.

Yes, Dantonio kicked them off the team. He had no choice but to do so. Can you imagine the hue and cry that would have occurred if he had not? Can you imagine the cloud hanging over the program if he did not?

He had no choice in the matter what so ever.
When I said the "Court of Dantonio", I was being metaphorical, not indicating that he actually investigated it. But he was alerted to it by another player. We also know a 4th player, who was not involved, was included on a group text with the 3 where they discussed the incident. There's probably a good chance that the 4th player told Dantonio. My point is that Dantonio knew enough about what happened to know that these guys did this shit, to at least an extent. I don't think he booted them just for PR sake. He absolutely had a choice to not kick them off the team at this point. He could have left them as suspended, while letting the legal process play itself out. That's usually his M.O. I have no doubt that he knows they did some awful shit, and that's why they're gone, regardless of the legal outcome.
Again I will disagree. Dantonio did what was right for the program, that is his job. Even if he feels they were innocent, his only real course of action is to kick them off the team.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MSU addict on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 13:38

Well this is a strange twist:

Auston Robertson reported claims against three MSU players, trustee says

Mitch Lyons, a Michigan State trustee from Rockford, said on The Huge Show on Tuesday on WBBL-FM in Grand Rapids that Robertson referenced the alleged assault during a January meeting with Dantonio.

Robertson was later kicked off the team after for a separate alleged sexual assault case.

"When Auston Robertson came into his office for a regularly weekly meeting, Coach D asked him the regular questions he typically asks him, and then he became a little emotional and didn't even go into details," Lyons said during an appearance on the show Tuesday afternoon. "He alluded to the fact that something happened, and Coach D had a sense that it involved some sort of sexual allegation, and he immediately said 'Don't say anything more.'"

That alleged incident eventually led to sexual assault charges against Donnie Corley, Josh King and Demetric Vance, filed this week by the Ingham County Prosecutor.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by InTenSity on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 13:44

First off, why is the trustee talking about who talked? Second. WTF?!?

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by LooseGoose on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 13:45

MSU addict wrote:Well this is a strange twist:

Auston Robertson reported claims against three MSU players, trustee says

Mitch Lyons, a Michigan State trustee from Rockford, said on The Huge Show on Tuesday on WBBL-FM in Grand Rapids that Robertson referenced the alleged assault during a January meeting with Dantonio.

Robertson was later kicked off the team after for a separate alleged sexual assault case.

"When Auston Robertson came into his office for a regularly weekly meeting, Coach D asked him the regular questions he typically asks him, and then he became a little emotional and didn't even go into details," Lyons said during an appearance on the show Tuesday afternoon. "He alluded to the fact that something happened, and Coach D had a sense that it involved some sort of sexual allegation, and he immediately said 'Don't say anything more.'"

That alleged incident eventually led to sexual assault charges against Donnie Corley, Josh King and Demetric Vance, filed this week by the Ingham County Prosecutor.

The version of events offered by Lyons mirrors that detailed by the Jones Day report, an external law firm investigation commissioned by Michigan State to investigate whether Michigan State staff members complied with school policy in regards to the alleged incident.

That report, released this week, stated that an unnamed player became emotional during a January meeting with Dantonio, and said "I had to get her out of there. She is my friend."

Wow....and then he got into what he's accused of.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Floyd Robertson on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 13:45

I kind of have a problem with Lyons breaking that news to the media, let alone on Huge's show.

Trustees should not be dealing with the media at all, IMHO.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by steveschneider on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 13:45

MSU addict wrote:Well this is a strange twist:

Auston Robertson reported claims against three MSU players, trustee says

Mitch Lyons, a Michigan State trustee from Rockford, said on The Huge Show on Tuesday on WBBL-FM in Grand Rapids that Robertson referenced the alleged assault during a January meeting with Dantonio.

Robertson was later kicked off the team after for a separate alleged sexual assault case.

"When Auston Robertson came into his office for a regularly weekly meeting, Coach D asked him the regular questions he typically asks him, and then he became a little emotional and didn't even go into details," Lyons said during an appearance on the show Tuesday afternoon. "He alluded to the fact that something happened, and Coach D had a sense that it involved some sort of sexual allegation, and he immediately said 'Don't say anything more.'"

That alleged incident eventually led to sexual assault charges against Donnie Corley, Josh King and Demetric Vance, filed this week by the Ingham County Prosecutor.

What the fuck? He had enough sense to know that what other people did was completely wrong but none for himself.

Just crazy.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Dendrobates on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 14:02

steveschneider wrote:

What the fuck? He had enough sense to know that what other people did was completely wrong but none for himself.

Just crazy.

Yes, this. WTF man?

Can someone refresh me what happened with Robertson? Or do we not yet know the details?
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by InTenSity on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 14:25

Dendrobates wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

What the fuck? He had enough sense to know that what other people did was completely wrong but none for himself.

Just crazy.

Yes, this. WTF man?

Can someone refresh me what happened with Robertson? Or do we not yet know the details?
I think he was the one who gave one of the other players girlfriends a ride home, along with his girlfriend, offered to take her to her apartment. Assaulted her, then drove his GF home. I think. Either way, he was arrested within a few days and kicked off the team. This is about a month or so after the other allegations were already out there.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MiamiSpartan on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 14:41

And how did Robertson know? I can't help but wonder if he was the 4th guy in this group text where the others discussed it. If so, that leads to some very awful questions. I mean, out of 4 guys in a certain text group, and they all are currently charged with sexual assault. Just a really random coincidence that they're all pieces of shit? Or was this particular group about some fucked up shit that they were all into?

Even if he wasn't the 4th guy in the group text, how did he know about this? Maybe he was at the party, but then others would know, too. Did the police report mentioning testimony from others at this party? I didn't think that it did, but I could be wrong. So if he wasn't part of the group text, did they come up to him and say, "Yo dude, we just had to tell someone, and we know that you like to force your power over girls, so we figured you'll be cool with this...."
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by SeeRockCity on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 15:23

So three guys rape dude #1's friend
Dude #1 revenge rapes one of the three dude's girlfriends?

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by InTenSity on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 15:40

SeeRockCity wrote:So three guys rape dude #1's friend
Dude #1 revenge rapes one of the three dude's girlfriends?
Allegedly Reshke GF.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by LooseGoose on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 15:52

InTenSity wrote:
SeeRockCity wrote:So three guys rape dude #1's friend
Dude #1 revenge rapes one of the three dude's girlfriends?
Allegedly Reshke GF.

I'm not sure that Reschke's GF wasn't a separate thing.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 16:13

I had heard it was the gf of a fellow DL from Illinois/Chicago. That would narrow it down to King, Panasiuk and R. Williams. By the context of the information I did not believe it to be King when I first heard the info.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MSU addict on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 16:25

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I had heard it was the gf of a fellow DL from Illinois/Chicago. That would narrow it down to King, Panasiuk and R. Williams. By the context of the information I did not believe it to be King when I first heard the info.
Seeing how we like rumors around here, I have seen some speculation that Roberston was set up for dropping the dime on his teammates, and that would play well with your rumor.

One some level it makes perfect sense as Roberston was on this ice based on his previous conduct and would almost be presumed guilty.

This shits crazier than a James Comey hearing.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by InTenSity on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 16:28

MSU addict wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I had heard it was the gf of a fellow DL from Illinois/Chicago. That would narrow it down to King, Panasiuk and R. Williams. By the context of the information I did not believe it to be King when I first heard the info.
Seeing how we like rumors around here, I have seen some speculation that Roberston was set up for dropping the dime on his teammates, and that would play well with your rumor.

One some level it makes perfect sense as Roberston was on this ice based on his previous conduct and would almost be presumed guilty.
If he was setup, I can't even begin to imagine. Lets play the what if game. Lets say this was all a setup, and in 6 months from now it turns out that Robertson is innocent of everything and had been going through his probation and turning his life around. Do you allow him back on the team, especially if he never touched anyone?

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Floyd Robertson on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 16:28

MSU addict wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I had heard it was the gf of a fellow DL from Illinois/Chicago. That would narrow it down to King, Panasiuk and R. Williams. By the context of the information I did not believe it to be King when I first heard the info.
Seeing how we like rumors around here, I have seen some speculation that Roberston was set up for dropping the dime on his teammates, and that would play well with your rumor.

One some level it makes perfect sense as Roberston was on this ice based on his previous conduct and would almost be presumed guilty.

This shits crazier than a James Comey hearing.  

Harns is being rightfully taken to task for floating the speculation on Twitter.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Cameron on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 16:34

InTenSity wrote:
MSU addict wrote:Seeing how we like rumors around here, I have seen some speculation that Roberston was set up for dropping the dime on his teammates, and that would play well with your rumor.

One some level it makes perfect sense as Roberston was on this ice based on his previous conduct and would almost be presumed guilty.
If he was setup, I can't even begin to imagine. Lets play the what if game. Lets say this was all a setup, and in 6 months from now it turns out that Robertson is innocent of everything and had been going through his probation and turning his life around. Do you allow him back on the team, especially if he never touched anyone?

In the unlikely event that he was set up, I can't see why not. If you get kicked off the team for something, and then later it is proven that you didn't actually do that something, reinstatement is the logical conclusion.

But it seems pretty far-fetched.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MiamiSpartan on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 16:44

Floyd Robertson wrote:
MSU addict wrote:
Seeing how we like rumors around here, I have seen some speculation that Roberston was set up for dropping the dime on his teammates, and that would play well with your rumor.

One some level it makes perfect sense as Roberston was on this ice based on his previous conduct and would almost be presumed guilty.

This shits crazier than a James Comey hearing.  

Harns is being rightfully taken to task for floating the speculation on Twitter.
The setup thing sounds pretty absurd. First, it assumes that the girl that King/Corely/Vance raped didn't (or wouldn't) go to the cops. As if the only reason they were in hot water was because Robertson told Dantonio. Uhh, there was an actual victim here.

Then, they would need a girl to claim to be raped....in order to help three other rapists get back at Robertson. So basically they'd need to get a girl who is ok with supporting rapists...and willing to risk getting in trouble herself (criminally and/or civilly) in doing so.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Floyd Robertson on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 16:49

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:

Harns is being rightfully taken to task for floating the speculation on Twitter.
The setup thing sounds pretty absurd.  First, it assumes that the girl that King/Corely/Vance raped didn't (or wouldn't) go to the cops.  As if the only reason they were in hot water was because Robertson told Dantonio.  Uhh, there was an actual victim here.

Then, they would need a girl to claim to be raped....in order to help three other rapists get back at Robertson.  So basically they'd need to get a girl who is ok with supporting rapists...and willing to risk getting in trouble herself (criminally and/or civilly) in doing so.

Yeah, when you think it through and put it like this, it's where the speculation should end.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 17:12

I don't think the setup angle is legitimate but I can see why people are coming up with some far fetched conspiracies.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 17:49

Mosallam steps into the frey to condemn Lyons. Good for him.

https://twitter.com/Bmosallam63/status/872527089337065473



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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by steveschneider on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 18:05

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Mosallam steps into the frey to condemn Lyons. Good for him.

https://twitter.com/Bmosallam63/status/872527089337065473



Yeah, this has done nothing but create wild speculation and dragged more peoples names into this mess.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by MSU addict on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 18:23

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I don't think the setup angle is legitimate but I can see why people are coming up with some far fetched conspiracies.
I agree that it is unlikely, but when you mentioned his accuser may be the girlfriend of a DL from Chicago (and possibly King's) to me that takes it out of the realm of the absurd.

Also if I am reading today's developments correctly Robertson told Dantonio 1/16 (a Monday).  I believe the police report was filed on 1/17.  If that is true - the police report was likely filed after the victim was contacted by police (based on Dantonio's report) inquiring if a crime had been committed.  Which also probably makes it less absurd.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 18:44

It seems the girl that Robertson allegedly assaulted is/was R. Williams gf. That was my original suspicion based on what I heard but it was confirmed by someone on another board today.

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by DWags on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 18:55

Let's say all the shit is true about set up and revenge. Then they couldn't be kicked off campus fast enough. Get these soap opera fuckers out. Buh bye

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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by NigelUno on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 19:10

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Mosallam steps into the frey to condemn Lyons. Good for him.

https://twitter.com/Bmosallam63/status/872527089337065473



Dang. 2 former players going at it.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Floyd Robertson on Wed 7 Jun 2017 - 20:59

Mark Dantonio response to sex-assault scandal an example in post-Baylor era

By now, every time something this ugly occurs on a college campus everyone who cares about college athletics should be as mad as hell and unwilling to take it anymore. Nonetheless, when a big-time coach as respected as Dantonio backs up his words of outrage with strong action, it resonates.
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Re: Football rumors (Merged)

Post by Jethro Bodeen on Thu 8 Jun 2017 - 1:49

NigelUno wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Mosallam steps into the frey to condemn Lyons. Good for him.

https://twitter.com/Bmosallam63/status/872527089337065473



Dang.  2 former players going at it.

What else has Lyons said/done? I've never heard of anything.
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