Great read: Devos merging church and state

by **DWags** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 7:03

The plumb has always been public education. Get that, and the independence between church and state will be forever crippled

Devos: lamenting public schools being the center of towns not churches.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 7:13

waiting for someone to tell me that religion and religious extremism isn't a problem in America. Rolling Eyes

by **DWags** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 7:20

Robert J Sakimano wrote:waiting for someone to tell me that religion and religious extremism isn't a problem in America.

Blessed be the pussy grabbers and the brown haters

John 3:18

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 7:26

DWags wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:waiting for someone to tell me that religion and religious extremism isn't a problem in America.

Blessed be the pussy grabbers and the brown haters

John 3:18

he that mocks the disabled shall effortlessly be delivered to the Kingdom

Ecclesiastes 32:4

by **DWags** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 7:58

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
DWags wrote:

Blessed be the pussy grabbers and the brown haters

John 3:18
he that mocks the disabled shall effortlessly be delivered to the Kingdom

Ecclesiastes 32:4

Those that don't watch two Russian prostitutes urinate on each other will have a harder time getting to heaven than a camel going through an eye of a needle

Matthew 19:14

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 7:59

DWags wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: he that mocks the disabled shall effortlessly be delivered to the Kingdom

Ecclesiastes 32:4

Those that don't watch two Russian prostitutes urinate on each other will have a harder time getting to heaven than a camel going through an eye of a needle

Matthew 19:14

Great read: Devos merging church and state 502811600

the religious kooks make it so easy.

by **DWags** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 8:02

Seriously though, I'm telling you, it's scary how much the religious right is compromising secular institutions. I honestly believe churches do some great things. I see my church doing so much for so many, and some great people from left leaning UofM MSU grads to right leaning blue collar hard working people, come together to try to help a problem in the area we live in. Whether you want the Sunday service to reinforce your belief in God/Heaven or whether you tolerate that to do good things with good people, it's a great place. And frankly, our little church group has done some wild things, from our wives taking us to strip joints, to just crazy tailgates at Ann Arbor or MSU, but Most in our group have the ability to seperate church/state.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 8:05

DWags wrote:Seriously though, I'm telling you, it's scary how much the religious right is compromising secular institutions. I honestly believe churches do some great things. I see my church doing so much for so many, and some great people from left leaning UofM MSU grads to right leaning blue collar hard working people, come together to try to help a problem in the area we live in. Whether you want the Sunday service to reinforce your belief in God/Heaven or whether you tolerate that to do good things with good people, it's a great place. And frankly, our little church group has done some wild things, from our wives taking us to strip joints, to just crazy tailgates at Ann Arbor or MSU, but Most in our group have the ability to seperate church/state.

yeah, I know some religious folks do some positive things.. as a group, they just make it so easy, though, with their selective sense of morality and ethics as they view others through their stained prism of political and cultural sanctimony.

by AnomanderRake Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 13:08

I have a dream, that one day every religious person will wake up and come to their fucking senses that there is no omnipotent, omniscient being that gives two damns about us.

by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 13:28

It's threads like this that remind me of the total scourge on America Catholic schools at all levels have been.

by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 13:28

AnomanderRake wrote:I have a dream, that one day every religious person will wake up and come to their fucking senses that there is no omnipotent, omniscient being that gives two damns about us.

I'll pray for you tonight brother.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 13:32

LooseGoose wrote:It's threads like this that remind me of the total scourge on America Catholic schools at all levels have been.

this.

by **DWags** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 13:40

LooseGoose wrote:It's threads like this that remind me of the total scourge on America Catholic schools at all levels have been.

It's posts like this that remind me you're not a conservative nor libertarian but a cheerleader for republicans even if they will never have your pot smoking life in mind of their movements. Secular institutions? Who cares as long as it's the republicans destroying them. amirite?

Sheep.

by **GRR Spartan** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 13:48

Nothing wrong with parochial schools. They are great places for religious training and required state cirriculum.

Just don't use state or Federal taxes to support them.

Betsy wants a church centric America.
If you're a Muslim you might be shit out of luck.

by **Cameron** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:31

More disturbing to me than the story itself is the fact that there are plenty of people out there who could read that whole piece, believe every single word of it, and yet not see a single problem.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:38

LooseGoose wrote:It's threads like this that remind me of the total scourge on America Catholic schools at all levels have been.

When Trump gets kicked out of office DeVos has to go too, so I wouldn't worry about this too much.

by **DWags** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:41

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:It's threads like this that remind me of the total scourge on America Catholic schools at all levels have been.

When Trump gets kicked out of office DeVos has to go too, so I wouldn't worry about this too much.

Pence might be worse as far as church/state separation.

by CheesySpartan Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:41

GRR Spartan wrote:Nothing wrong with parochial schools. They are great places for religious training and required state cirriculum.

Just don't use state or Federal taxes to support them.

Betsy wants a church centric America.
If you're a Muslim you might be shit out of luck.

14 states and DC already have voucher programs. Wisconsin is one of them and it has been applauded from everything I've seen.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:44

DWags wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

When Trump gets kicked out of office DeVos has to go too, so I wouldn't worry about this too much.

Pence might be worse as far as church/state separation.

That might be true. Well shit, hope everyone's kids likes worshiping the one true religion. Sorry Muslims.

by **DWags** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:44

CheesySpartan wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:Nothing wrong with parochial schools. They are great places for religious training and required state cirriculum.

Just don't use state or Federal taxes to support them.

Betsy wants a church centric America.
If you're a Muslim you might be shit out of luck.

14 states and DC already have voucher programs. Wisconsin is one of them and it has been applauded from everything I've seen.

As long as you're cool with Dearborn kids bringing them to Muslim schools.

I'm not good with either.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:47

For all the Republicans out there touting the virtues of the founding fathers this is not what they intended.

by **GRR Spartan** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:49

Another form of church and corporate welfare.

Wait until a Muslim school wants vouchers.
Then we find out its only certain schools.

Another dodge is requiring school districts to supply paraprofessionals for pararochial schools for special needs classrooms. They want the students, just not the extra costs.

Relationships gious and economic segregation.
Divide and conquer in DeVos's ideal Trumplandia.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:57

white people suck.

by CheesySpartan Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:58

DWags wrote:
CheesySpartan wrote:

14 states and DC already have voucher programs. Wisconsin is one of them and it has been applauded from everything I've seen.

As long as you're cool with Dearborn kids bringing them to Muslim schools.

I'm not good with either.

In my experiences, a parochial education is consistently one of the best and most students who graduate from it go on to be successful at the college level. So, its easy to see why low-income families want vouchers to send their kids there. When I went to a catholic high school in the 90's all the faculty and staff were laypersons and we had to take one religion class a year. Not all students were catholic and few were practicing. 99% of my graduating class went on to college and the other 3 people went to service academies.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 15:00

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 15:02

CheesySpartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

As long as you're cool with Dearborn kids bringing them to Muslim schools.

I'm not good with either.

In my experiences, a parochial education is consistently one of the best and most students who graduate from it go on to be successful at the college level. So, its easy to see why low-income families want vouchers to send their kids there. When I went to a catholic high school in the 90's all the faculty and staff were laypersons and we had to take one religion class a year. Not all students were catholic and few were practicing. 99% of my graduating class went on to college and the other 3 people went to service academies.

so you and your republican ilk would be okay with using federal dollars to fund Muslim charter schools.

cool.

by **DWags** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 15:12

CheesySpartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

As long as you're cool with Dearborn kids bringing them to Muslim schools.

I'm not good with either.

In my experiences, a parochial education is consistently one of the best and most students who graduate from it go on to be successful at the college level. So, its easy to see why low-income families want vouchers to send their kids there. When I went to a catholic high school in the 90's all the faculty and staff were laypersons and we had to take one religion class a year. Not all students were catholic and few were practicing. 99% of my graduating class went on to college and the other 3 people went to service academies.

Yearly as a h.s. administrator we'd interview for teaching jobs. So many of the resumes came from Parochial school teachers because of the health benefits, salary, and pension.

However, the families that send their kids to parochial schools are usually much more stable then many public school families, unless it's a tony suburban school. I could give you a zillion chapter and verse studies that show you its poverty that makes kids learning curve longer, not schools. The public school teachers are the ones who got the interviews and did well in that process and then got tenured to keep their jobs after three years. Those who didn't took jobs at the schools they were trying to leave.

This is what I guarantee happens, and I'm going to make it happen in the Detroit area. I will start a buss service from Detroit when Devos gets the national voucher program passed, and I will drive kids daily from Detroit to parochial schools in the burbs. I will, along with two fired up friends, fund this. We will inundate those schools with kids from poverty areas in the Detroit area, and we'll see if the test scores stay up or they drop overall.

Sometimes people get what they ask for.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 15:15

DWags wrote:
CheesySpartan wrote:

In my experiences, a parochial education is consistently one of the best and most students who graduate from it go on to be successful at the college level. So, its easy to see why low-income families want vouchers to send their kids there. When I went to a catholic high school in the 90's all the faculty and staff were laypersons and we had to take one religion class a year. Not all students were catholic and few were practicing. 99% of my graduating class went on to college and the other 3 people went to service academies.

Yearly as a h.s. administrator we'd interview for teaching jobs. So many of the resumes came from Parochial school teachers because of the health benefits, salary, and pension.

However, the families that send their kids to parochial schools are usually much more stable then many public school families, unless it's a tony suburban school. I could give you a zillion chapter and verse studies that show you its poverty that makes kids learning curve longer, not schools. The public school teachers are the ones who got the interviews and did well in that process and then got tenured to keep their jobs after three years. Those who didn't took jobs at the schools they were trying to leave.

This is what I guarantee happens, and I'm going to make it happen in the Detroit area. I will start a buss service from Detroit when Devos gets the national voucher program passed, and I will drive kids daily from Detroit to parochial schools in the burbs. I will, along with two fired up friends, fund this. We will inundate those schools with kids from poverty areas in the Detroit area, and we'll see if the test scores stay up or they drop overall.

Sometimes people get what they ask for.

I wish more of the religious zealot families at East Lansing HS would send their kids to Lansing Catholic. They're doing their best to taint a good forward-thinking education.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 15:16

DWags wrote:
CheesySpartan wrote:

In my experiences, a parochial education is consistently one of the best and most students who graduate from it go on to be successful at the college level. So, its easy to see why low-income families want vouchers to send their kids there. When I went to a catholic high school in the 90's all the faculty and staff were laypersons and we had to take one religion class a year. Not all students were catholic and few were practicing. 99% of my graduating class went on to college and the other 3 people went to service academies.

Yearly as a h.s. administrator we'd interview for teaching jobs. So many of the resumes came from Parochial school teachers because of the health benefits, salary, and pension.

However, the families that send their kids to parochial schools are usually much more stable then many public school families, unless it's a tony suburban school. I could give you a zillion chapter and verse studies that show you its poverty that makes kids learning curve longer, not schools. The public school teachers are the ones who got the interviews and did well in that process and then got tenured to keep their jobs after three years. Those who didn't took jobs at the schools they were trying to leave.

This is what I guarantee happens, and I'm going to make it happen in the Detroit area. I will start a buss service from Detroit when Devos gets the national voucher program passed, and I will drive kids daily from Detroit to parochial schools in the burbs. I will, along with two fired up friends, fund this. We will inundate those schools with kids from poverty areas in the Detroit area, and we'll see if the test scores stay up or they drop overall.

Sometimes people get what they ask for.

let me know - I'll funnel some cash your direction for this fantastic cause.

by CheesySpartan Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 16:17

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
CheesySpartan wrote:

In my experiences, a parochial education is consistently one of the best and most students who graduate from it go on to be successful at the college level. So, its easy to see why low-income families want vouchers to send their kids there. When I went to a catholic high school in the 90's all the faculty and staff were laypersons and we had to take one religion class a year. Not all students were catholic and few were practicing. 99% of my graduating class went on to college and the other 3 people went to service academies.
so you and your republican ilk would be okay with using federal dollars to fund Muslim charter schools.

cool.

Sure

by **The_Dude** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 16:32

I'll neve forgive her for what she did to me and my family

by CheesySpartan Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 16:34

DWags wrote:
CheesySpartan wrote:

In my experiences, a parochial education is consistently one of the best and most students who graduate from it go on to be successful at the college level. So, its easy to see why low-income families want vouchers to send their kids there. When I went to a catholic high school in the 90's all the faculty and staff were laypersons and we had to take one religion class a year. Not all students were catholic and few were practicing. 99% of my graduating class went on to college and the other 3 people went to service academies.

Yearly as a h.s. administrator we'd interview for teaching jobs. So many of the resumes came from Parochial school teachers because of the health benefits, salary, and pension.

However, the families that send their kids to parochial schools are usually much more stable then many public school families, unless it's a tony suburban school. I could give you a zillion chapter and verse studies that show you its poverty that makes kids learning curve longer, not schools. The public school teachers are the ones who got the interviews and did well in that process and then got tenured to keep their jobs after three years. Those who didn't took jobs at the schools they were trying to leave.

This is what I guarantee happens, and I'm going to make it happen in the Detroit area. I will start a buss service from Detroit when Devos gets the national voucher program passed, and I will drive kids daily from Detroit to parochial schools in the burbs. I will, along with two fired up friends, fund this. We will inundate those schools with kids from poverty areas in the Detroit area, and we'll see if the test scores stay up or they drop overall.

Sometimes people get what they ask for.

Yeah but are you going to take the kids who want to go and learn or just anybody? If a kid doesn't want to learn it doesn't matter where he/she goes. They will fail. Same with a kid who wants to learn. They will succeed no matter where they go.

by **The_Dude** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 16:35

CheesySpartan wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:Nothing wrong with parochial schools. They are great places for religious training and required state cirriculum.

Just don't use state or Federal taxes to support them.

Betsy wants a church centric America.
If you're a Muslim you might be shit out of luck.

14 states and DC already have voucher programs. Wisconsin is one of them and it has been applauded from everything I've seen.

You are trying to reason with a complete tribalist lapdog who just parrots anything D is good and R is bad.

by CheesySpartan Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 16:35

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
DWags wrote:

Yearly as a h.s. administrator we'd interview for teaching jobs. So many of the resumes came from Parochial school teachers because of the health benefits, salary, and pension.

However, the families that send their kids to parochial schools are usually much more stable then many public school families, unless it's a tony suburban school. I could give you a zillion chapter and verse studies that show you its poverty that makes kids learning curve longer, not schools. The public school teachers are the ones who got the interviews and did well in that process and then got tenured to keep their jobs after three years. Those who didn't took jobs at the schools they were trying to leave.

This is what I guarantee happens, and I'm going to make it happen in the Detroit area. I will start a buss service from Detroit when Devos gets the national voucher program passed, and I will drive kids daily from Detroit to parochial schools in the burbs. I will, along with two fired up friends, fund this. We will inundate those schools with kids from poverty areas in the Detroit area, and we'll see if the test scores stay up or they drop overall.

Sometimes people get what they ask for.
let me know - I'll funnel some cash your direction for this fantastic cause.

$20 in a library book isn't going to cut it this time Bob.

by **The_Dude** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 16:39

CheesySpartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Yearly as a h.s. administrator we'd interview for teaching jobs. So many of the resumes came from Parochial school teachers because of the health benefits, salary, and pension.

However, the families that send their kids to parochial schools are usually much more stable then many public school families, unless it's a tony suburban school. I could give you a zillion chapter and verse studies that show you its poverty that makes kids learning curve longer, not schools. The public school teachers are the ones who got the interviews and did well in that process and then got tenured to keep their jobs after three years. Those who didn't took jobs at the schools they were trying to leave.

This is what I guarantee happens, and I'm going to make it happen in the Detroit area. I will start a buss service from Detroit when Devos gets the national voucher program passed, and I will drive kids daily from Detroit to parochial schools in the burbs. I will, along with two fired up friends, fund this. We will inundate those schools with kids from poverty areas in the Detroit area, and we'll see if the test scores stay up or they drop overall.

Sometimes people get what they ask for.

Yeah but are you going to take the kids who want to go and learn or just anybody? If a kid doesn't want to learn it doesn't matter where he/she goes. They will fail. Same with a kid who wants to learn. They will succeed no matter where they go.

Yup. You could put Detroit kids in Birmingham schools and vice versaand the results would be the same.

Unfortunately it's a culture thing that democratic politicians enable. Not sure how you get minorities to value education and become good parents. Well I know how but no politician would do it. (take away benefits the more kids out of wedlock you have instead of the opposite)

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 16:43

The_Dude wrote:
CheesySpartan wrote:

14 states and DC already have voucher programs. Wisconsin is one of them and it has been applauded from everything I've seen.

You are trying to reason with a complete tribalist lapdog who just parrots anything D is good and R is bad.

Great read: Devos merging church and state Btchplz

by **Cameron** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 17:59

CheesySpartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Yearly as a h.s. administrator we'd interview for teaching jobs. So many of the resumes came from Parochial school teachers because of the health benefits, salary, and pension.

However, the families that send their kids to parochial schools are usually much more stable then many public school families, unless it's a tony suburban school. I could give you a zillion chapter and verse studies that show you its poverty that makes kids learning curve longer, not schools. The public school teachers are the ones who got the interviews and did well in that process and then got tenured to keep their jobs after three years. Those who didn't took jobs at the schools they were trying to leave.

This is what I guarantee happens, and I'm going to make it happen in the Detroit area. I will start a buss service from Detroit when Devos gets the national voucher program passed, and I will drive kids daily from Detroit to parochial schools in the burbs. I will, along with two fired up friends, fund this. We will inundate those schools with kids from poverty areas in the Detroit area, and we'll see if the test scores stay up or they drop overall.

Sometimes people get what they ask for.

Yeah but are you going to take the kids who want to go and learn or just anybody? If a kid doesn't want to learn it doesn't matter where he/she goes. They will fail. Same with a kid who wants to learn. They will succeed no matter where they go.

You're a real shithead.

by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 17:59

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

You are trying to reason with a complete tribalist lapdog who just parrots anything D is good and R is bad.

Are all the tribalists on one side?

by **DWags** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 18:01

CheesySpartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Yearly as a h.s. administrator we'd interview for teaching jobs. So many of the resumes came from Parochial school teachers because of the health benefits, salary, and pension.

However, the families that send their kids to parochial schools are usually much more stable then many public school families, unless it's a tony suburban school. I could give you a zillion chapter and verse studies that show you its poverty that makes kids learning curve longer, not schools. The public school teachers are the ones who got the interviews and did well in that process and then got tenured to keep their jobs after three years. Those who didn't took jobs at the schools they were trying to leave.

This is what I guarantee happens, and I'm going to make it happen in the Detroit area. I will start a buss service from Detroit when Devos gets the national voucher program passed, and I will drive kids daily from Detroit to parochial schools in the burbs. I will, along with two fired up friends, fund this. We will inundate those schools with kids from poverty areas in the Detroit area, and we'll see if the test scores stay up or they drop overall.

Sometimes people get what they ask for.

Yeah but are you going to take the kids who want to go and learn or just anybody? If a kid doesn't want to learn it doesn't matter where he/she goes. They will fail. Same with a kid who wants to learn. They will succeed no matter where they go.

Ow you got it cheesey!!! Yet public schools in a poverty area where teachers work waaaayyy harder because kids have never been brought up to learn and they have to get these kids attention through 12 power strategies of teaching and put in way more hours with less available ancillary help, are told they aren't as good as parochial teachers who often teach children of professionals. It's laughable. It's why many parochial teachers don't get the public jobs. Most public teachers are much more well equipped.

And when you have 20 kids in a room that aren't reading at grade level or doing math at grade level and get frustrated you have classroom discipline issues and those ten kids who you say want to learn don't do nearly as well as you think.

Our plan is to take the kids who are reading way below grade level and bring them to suburban parochial schools. Since, you know, they're so great. If you take public voucher money you better have a system of accepting kids. And you can't have a test to get in. This will be the most fun me and my buddies have had in years.

by **Cameron** Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 18:04

LooseGoose wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Are all the tribalists on one side?

Did he say they were?

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