Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by MattyFresh on 2017-10-10, 22:42

Saw that Travis, I blame Russia.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by MattyFresh on 2017-10-10, 22:50

shots fuckin' fired, I know who I am rooting for now!



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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-10-10, 22:50

gHost Spartan wrote:Soccer is a niche sport in USA. Most American soccer fans follow EPL and La Liga (arguably) more than MLS, which I think appeals to those fans who seek more of a connection to a local club. But you see a lot more kids wearing Barça and Man U gear than any MLS team. Sucks USA didn't make it but I generally don't really root for them in soccer anyway.

You disgust me. I am not a soccer fan, but I always root for the USA.


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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-10-10, 22:51

MattyFresh wrote:shots fuckin' fired, I know who I am rooting for now!



Donald Trump has a little fire and fury lined up for Iceland.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by MattyFresh on 2017-10-10, 22:52

Iceland moar like WETLAND amirite?

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Cym Jim on 2017-10-10, 23:03

5th in that group? Holy shit!
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-10-10, 23:04

Cym Jim wrote:5th in that group? Holy shit!

We are trying out an appeasement strategy. We will let you know how it works out.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by The Pantry on 2017-10-10, 23:06

fuck soccer
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Cym Jim on 2017-10-11, 01:35

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Floyd Robertson on 2017-10-11, 06:29

So we won't be hearing about soccer for another four years?
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by NigelUno on 2017-10-11, 07:37

gHost Spartan wrote:Soccer is a niche sport in USA. Most American soccer fans follow EPL and La Liga (arguably) more than MLS, which I think appeals to those fans who seek more of a connection to a local club. But you see a lot more kids wearing Barça and Man U gear than any MLS team. Sucks USA didn't make it but I generally don't really root for them in soccer anyway.

Who do you root for?  Brazil?  Argentina?  Mexico?

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 08:06

Floyd Robertson wrote:So we won't be hearing about soccer for another four years?

Great hot take. Just the best.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2017-10-11, 08:21

gHost Spartan wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Who do you root for?  Brazil?  Argentina?  Mexico?

Depends on the match. I pick a team to root for in each match, not necessarily a team to win the entire World Cup. Once I rooted for Iran. Generally, I favor Spain, though, because aside from USA that's my favorite country.

I bet you root for Alabama football and Duke basketball too. No
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 08:25

Coconut Sid wrote:I hope this is the final death blow for soccer in the US.

It won't be. Great hot take.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Floyd Robertson on 2017-10-11, 08:27

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:So we won't be hearing about soccer for another four years?

Great hot take. Just the best.

I know. Seriously, though, what is it going to take for the USMNT to compete at a high level in the World Cup, and by that I mean more than 1 top 10 finish every 100 years.
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2017-10-11, 08:29

As a non soccer fan, I won't say that I look forward to the US playing in the World Cup, but it does hold my interest when they are playing. Except that they usually play during work hours so I don't get to watch them anyway. I don't know where I was going with this.
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by InTenSity on 2017-10-11, 08:30

Floyd Robertson wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Great hot take. Just the best.

I know. Seriously, though, what is it going to take for the USMNT to compete at a high level in the World Cup, and by that I mean more than 1 top 10 finish every 100 years.
A way for advertisers to make $$. The US audience being ok with a game that might be 1-nil.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 08:35

Floyd Robertson wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Great hot take. Just the best.

I know. Seriously, though, what is it going to take for the USMNT to compete at a high level in the World Cup, and by that I mean more than 1 top 10 finish every 100 years.

Probably a way to train players from an early age that doesn't involve wasting time on getting useless things like "educations" like other countries have. Shit I dunno though

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by DWags on 2017-10-11, 08:36

Floyd Robertson wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Great hot take. Just the best.

I know. Seriously, though, what is it going to take for the USMNT to compete at a high level in the World Cup, and by that I mean more than 1 top 10 finish every 100 years.


Better athletes.    Our best athletes still aren't interested in soccer past pee wee.   And I'm not saying that our soccer athletes aren't absolutely fantastic athletes who could run circles around me in my very best prime, I'm just saying that sport will never be a big draw past pee wee.   

Money, hype, cheerlearders, t.v. time, it's a hell of a hill to climb against the big three.   Football basketball baseball, then hockey.  You'd think they could take a run at hockey, but I can't name a professioanal team right now.  

Other countries have their best athletes playing in that sport from the get go.  It's worshiped in othger countries.   

This loss won't help that climb at all.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2017-10-11, 08:50

Floyd Robertson wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Great hot take. Just the best.

I know. Seriously, though, what is it going to take for the USMNT to compete at a high level in the World Cup, and by that I mean more than 1 top 10 finish every 100 years.
We had a top 8 finish 15 years ago.

We had a Top 4 finish among South American/North American teams 15 months ago, finishing only behind 3 teams that were in the Top 6 in the world, IIRC.


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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 08:52

DWags wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:

I know. Seriously, though, what is it going to take for the USMNT to compete at a high level in the World Cup, and by that I mean more than 1 top 10 finish every 100 years.


Better athletes.    Our best athletes still aren't interested in soccer past pee wee.   And I'm not saying that our soccer athletes aren't absolutely fantastic athletes who could run circles around me in my very best prime, I'm just saying that sport will never be a big draw past pee wee.   

Money, hype, cheerlearders, t.v. time, it's a hell of a hill to climb against the big three.   Football basketball baseball, then hockey.  You'd think they could take a run at hockey, but I can't name a professioanal team right now.  

Other countries have their best athletes playing in that sport from the get go.  It's worshiped in othger countries.   

This loss won't help that climb at all.

I almost preemptively posted that this is bullshit but I didn't because I figured someone would mention it. It didn't take long. Good #hottake though. There are 330 million people in the us. The number of athletes is irrelevant when you have so many other people compared to the other countries. I'm sure I could take percentages of people in Germany (82 million) or whatever and statistically prove to you that it's bullshit but I'm not going to. You should be able to do that yourself.

The biggest problem is training and development. Plenty of kids play soccer. Its not a lack of people issue. The issue is that from 3 years old until hey leave high school a ton of these kids are coached by Billy's dad who is mostly concerned with Billy getting in the field even though Billy fucking sucks. This works fine for other sports where there isn't as much competition from outside the US (except for baseball and hockey, but those are sports where more of the professional leagues are international players at this point) but in soccer our guys that got coached by Billy's dad are going up against guys who were trained from an early age by people whose only job is being a soccer trainer. They don't stand a chance. It's not the same system, so leaving it at just "oh if they just picked soccer first like those other countries we'd be fine." No we wouldn't, we'd still lose.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by MSU addict on 2017-10-11, 08:57

Floyd Robertson wrote:So we won't be hearing about soccer for another four years?
Wishful thinking. Don't they start qualifying 3 years before the actual tournament?
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 08:59

MSU addict wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:So we won't be hearing about soccer for another four years?
Wishful thinking. Don't they start qualifying 3 years before the actual tournament?

If it's wishful thinking Msu addict you could just, I dunno, not click on the goddamn thread.

But yeah technically the "actual tournament" is the finals. It's the World Cup. Errrrrbody included. It takes awhile.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by DWags on 2017-10-11, 09:01

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
DWags wrote:


Better athletes.    Our best athletes still aren't interested in soccer past pee wee.   And I'm not saying that our soccer athletes aren't absolutely fantastic athletes who could run circles around me in my very best prime, I'm just saying that sport will never be a big draw past pee wee.   

Money, hype, cheerlearders, t.v. time, it's a hell of a hill to climb against the big three.   Football basketball baseball, then hockey.  You'd think they could take a run at hockey, but I can't name a professioanal team right now.  

Other countries have their best athletes playing in that sport from the get go.  It's worshiped in othger countries.   

This loss won't help that climb at all.

I almost preemptively posted that this is bullshit but I didn't because I figured someone would mention it. It didn't take long. Good #hottake though. There are 330 million people in the us. The number of athletes is irrelevant when you have so many other people compared to the other countries. I'm sure I could take percentages of people in Germany (82 million) or whatever and statistically prove to you that it's bullshit but I'm not going to. You should be able to do that yourself.

The biggest problem is training and development. Plenty of kids play soccer. Its not a lack of people issue. The issue is that from 3 years old until hey leave high school a ton of these kids are coached by Billy's dad who is mostly concerned with Billy getting in the field even though Billy fucking sucks. This works fine for other sports where there isn't as much competition from outside the US (except for baseball and hockey, but those are sports where more of the professional leagues are international players at this point) but in soccer our guys that got coached by Billy's dad are going up against guys who were trained from an early age by people whose only job is being a soccer trainer. They don't stand a chance. It's not the same system, so leaving it at just "oh if they just picked soccer first like those other countries we'd be fine." No we wouldn't, we'd still lose.


except those of us who have had kids come up through soccer and have seen these indoor soccer arenas running full time 12 months a year with coaches who we have to fund raise and pay for kind of know that's bullshit too Travis.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by MSU addict on 2017-10-11, 09:03

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
DWags wrote:


Better athletes.    Our best athletes still aren't interested in soccer past pee wee.   And I'm not saying that our soccer athletes aren't absolutely fantastic athletes who could run circles around me in my very best prime, I'm just saying that sport will never be a big draw past pee wee.   

Money, hype, cheerlearders, t.v. time, it's a hell of a hill to climb against the big three.   Football basketball baseball, then hockey.  You'd think they could take a run at hockey, but I can't name a professioanal team right now.  

Other countries have their best athletes playing in that sport from the get go.  It's worshiped in othger countries.   

This loss won't help that climb at all.

I almost preemptively posted that this is bullshit but I didn't because I figured someone would mention it. It didn't take long. Good #hottake though. There are 330 million people in the us. The number of athletes is irrelevant when you have so many other people compared to the other countries. I'm sure I could take percentages of people in Germany (82 million) or whatever and statistically prove to you that it's bullshit but I'm not going to. You should be able to do that yourself.

The biggest problem is training and development. Plenty of kids play soccer. Its not a lack of people issue. The issue is that from 3 years old until hey leave high school a ton of these kids are coached by Billy's dad who is mostly concerned with Billy getting in the field even though Billy fucking sucks. This works fine for other sports where there isn't as much competition from outside the US (except for baseball and hockey, but those are sports where more of the professional leagues are international players at this point) but in soccer our guys that got coached by Billy's dad are going up against guys who were trained from an early age by people whose only job is being a soccer trainer. They don't stand a chance. It's not the same system, so leaving it at just "oh if they just picked soccer first like those other countries we'd be fine." No we wouldn't, we'd still lose.
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 09:15

DWags wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I almost preemptively posted that this is bullshit but I didn't because I figured someone would mention it. It didn't take long. Good #hottake though. There are 330 million people in the us. The number of athletes is irrelevant when you have so many other people compared to the other countries. I'm sure I could take percentages of people in Germany (82 million) or whatever and statistically prove to you that it's bullshit but I'm not going to. You should be able to do that yourself.

The biggest problem is training and development. Plenty of kids play soccer. Its not a lack of people issue. The issue is that from 3 years old until hey leave high school a ton of these kids are coached by Billy's dad who is mostly concerned with Billy getting in the field even though Billy fucking sucks. This works fine for other sports where there isn't as much competition from outside the US (except for baseball and hockey, but those are sports where more of the professional leagues are international players at this point) but in soccer our guys that got coached by Billy's dad are going up against guys who were trained from an early age by people whose only job is being a soccer trainer. They don't stand a chance. It's not the same system, so leaving it at just "oh if they just picked soccer first like those other countries we'd be fine." No we wouldn't, we'd still lose.


except those of us who have had kids come up through soccer and have seen these indoor soccer arenas running full time 12 months a year with coaches who we have to fund raise and pay for kind of know that's bullshit too Travis.

First of all, I played in those indoor arenas you speak of- don't assume that the coaches know shit. But, thats also true. Don't skip over the part where I said "this isn't the only problem."

Sheer land mass also creates unique difficulties that countries like Russia and china and India and Canada also have despite having massive populations themselves. Like I said, it's not just population. Nonsense. The size of these countries presents the other issue of having people training in New York and Florida and California and Texas all doing it different ways with players that don't know each other and learning different systems that we try to mash together when they get older, unsuccessfully even if they do get good training from an early age.

There's lots of problems and it sucks.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by DWags on 2017-10-11, 10:11

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
DWags wrote:


except those of us who have had kids come up through soccer and have seen these indoor soccer arenas running full time 12 months a year with coaches who we have to fund raise and pay for kind of know that's bullshit too Travis.

First of all, I played in those indoor arenas you speak of- don't assume that the coaches know shit. But, thats also true. Don't skip over the part where I said "this isn't the only problem."

Sheer land mass also creates unique difficulties that countries like Russia and china and India and Canada also have despite having massive populations themselves. Like I said, it's not just population. Nonsense. The size of these countries presents the other issue of having people training in New York and Florida and California and Texas all doing it different ways with players that don't know each other and learning different systems that we try to mash together when they get older, unsuccessfully even if they do get good training from an early age.

There's lots of problems and it sucks.


Better athletes fix those problems.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 10:26

DWags wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

First of all, I played in those indoor arenas you speak of- don't assume that the coaches know shit. But, thats also true. Don't skip over the part where I said "this isn't the only problem."

Sheer land mass also creates unique difficulties that countries like Russia and china and India and Canada also have despite having massive populations themselves. Like I said, it's not just population. Nonsense. The size of these countries presents the other issue of having people training in New York and Florida and California and Texas all doing it different ways with players that don't know each other and learning different systems that we try to mash together when they get older, unsuccessfully even if they do get good training from an early age.

There's lots of problems and it sucks.


Better athletes fix those problems.

That's simply not true dwags. I'm sorry. It is not.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on 2017-10-11, 10:27

DWags wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

First of all, I played in those indoor arenas you speak of- don't assume that the coaches know shit. But, thats also true. Don't skip over the part where I said "this isn't the only problem."

Sheer land mass also creates unique difficulties that countries like Russia and china and India and Canada also have despite having massive populations themselves. Like I said, it's not just population. Nonsense. The size of these countries presents the other issue of having people training in New York and Florida and California and Texas all doing it different ways with players that don't know each other and learning different systems that we try to mash together when they get older, unsuccessfully even if they do get good training from an early age.

There's lots of problems and it sucks.


Better athletes fix those problems.

Back to you in the studio, bobby Sak.
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2017-10-11, 10:34

DWags wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I almost preemptively posted that this is bullshit but I didn't because I figured someone would mention it. It didn't take long. Good #hottake though. There are 330 million people in the us. The number of athletes is irrelevant when you have so many other people compared to the other countries. I'm sure I could take percentages of people in Germany (82 million) or whatever and statistically prove to you that it's bullshit but I'm not going to. You should be able to do that yourself.

The biggest problem is training and development. Plenty of kids play soccer. Its not a lack of people issue. The issue is that from 3 years old until hey leave high school a ton of these kids are coached by Billy's dad who is mostly concerned with Billy getting in the field even though Billy fucking sucks. This works fine for other sports where there isn't as much competition from outside the US (except for baseball and hockey, but those are sports where more of the professional leagues are international players at this point) but in soccer our guys that got coached by Billy's dad are going up against guys who were trained from an early age by people whose only job is being a soccer trainer. They don't stand a chance. It's not the same system, so leaving it at just "oh if they just picked soccer first like those other countries we'd be fine." No we wouldn't, we'd still lose.


except those of us who have had kids come up through soccer and have seen these indoor soccer arenas running full time 12 months a year with coaches who we have to fund raise and pay for kind of know that's bullshit too Travis.
Indoor soccer arenas hurt the development of "outdoor" soccer more than help it. It's not the same game.

What does your fundraising to pay for coaches get you? What do you know about their qualifications? What are they trying to accomplish with the team?

Travis is on the right track that youth coaching and development sucks. Beyond the "Billy's Dad" factor, the kids are OVER-coached. Youth soccer in this country is overly structured and overly organized. Coaches drill fundamentals so much that kids never learn the technical skills. They never learn to just play and be creative. It's a creative sport. Compare it to basketball? Ever hear Magic or Jordan or LeBron credit their elementary school coach for working with them on those two handed bounce pass drills, which really upped their game? No, basketball players by and large credit the playgrounds. That's where they could be free to express themselves and try things.

You don't get that with soccer. You have soccer fields full on Saturdays with overly-structured leagues. But do you ever see pick up games anywhere? It's rare. You need the fundamentals, but you need kids to be able to go out and to try new/different things in the game, without the coach benching them because they didn't listen to his rigid instructions.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2017-10-11, 10:37

DWags wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

First of all, I played in those indoor arenas you speak of- don't assume that the coaches know shit. But, thats also true. Don't skip over the part where I said "this isn't the only problem."

Sheer land mass also creates unique difficulties that countries like Russia and china and India and Canada also have despite having massive populations themselves. Like I said, it's not just population. Nonsense. The size of these countries presents the other issue of having people training in New York and Florida and California and Texas all doing it different ways with players that don't know each other and learning different systems that we try to mash together when they get older, unsuccessfully even if they do get good training from an early age.

There's lots of problems and it sucks.


Better athletes fix those problems.
Our USMNT has better athletes than Trinidad and Tobago's team. We have as good of athletes on our national team as any other national team in the world.
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Tim Wakefield on 2017-10-11, 10:53


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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 10:58

Tim Wakefield wrote:Travis is #triggered

https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog/status/918105564177141760

I just don't get the compulsion of weirdos like you that insist on telling everyone that they don't like soccer whenever the topic comes up. You know what I don't like Tim? Fantasy football. It's fucking awful. Am I popping off every time someone talks about fantasy football? No. I just ignore it. Because I don't like it.

You don't like soccer? Fucking neat wake. Don't click on the thread then just to be a douchebag.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by DWags on 2017-10-11, 11:27

MiamiSpartan wrote:
DWags wrote:


except those of us who have had kids come up through soccer and have seen these indoor soccer arenas running full time 12 months a year with coaches who we have to fund raise and pay for kind of know that's bullshit too Travis.
Indoor soccer arenas hurt the development of "outdoor" soccer more than help it.  It's not the same game.  

What does your fundraising to pay for coaches get you?  What do you know about their qualifications?  What are they trying to accomplish with the team?

Travis is on the right track that youth coaching and development sucks.  Beyond the "Billy's Dad" factor, the kids are OVER-coached.  Youth soccer in this country is overly structured and overly organized.  Coaches drill fundamentals so much that kids never learn the technical skills.  They never learn to just play and be creative.  It's a creative sport.  Compare it to basketball?  Ever hear Magic or Jordan or LeBron credit their elementary school coach for working with them on those two handed bounce pass drills, which really upped their game?  No, basketball players by and large credit the playgrounds.  That's where they could be free to express themselves and try things.  

You don't get that with soccer.  You have soccer fields full on Saturdays with overly-structured leagues.  But do you ever see pick up games anywhere?  It's rare.  You need the fundamentals, but you need kids to be able to go out and to try new/different things in the game, without the coach benching them because they didn't listen to his rigid instructions.



I have no idea what the coaching got my kids.  It was somethjing they wanted to do, until they didn't.   It's not a sport for everyone.  You're right, we don't see a lot of "pick up" games of soccer in America.  I know why I think that is.   I also know that the only thing I can follow in that sport is what I've seen in my life.  I saw both nephews play pee wee and I also saw most of the best athletes on those teams end up joing middle school football and never looking back.   That, I guess, is not the case according to you guys, so I'll take your word for it.  Maybe it's because the coaches are rigid, or the game isn't exciting for them.  I have no idea, but the best athletes from my nephews pee wee teams, the ones who scored and defended and were fast, ended up playing football.   You guys tell me that's not so, I believe you.  So, I don't know what the answer is, but I do know we suck at that sport on a world wide basis.  I'll listen and read some of the experts reasons.  I'm interested in knowing why, a country like ours, who loves sports to a fault, who throws their kids into soccer at 3 years and younger, who fund raise and spend all kids of money, who travel with their pre-teens and teens to all kinds of fuck places to play other pre-teens and teens, and stay at packed hotels full of soccer enthusiasts just can't get the ball rolling.

Know why?   And this is the biggest thing why I think my theory is more right than any other....

Our women's teams kick fucking ass.  

Better coaching?
Better indoor facilities?
Better fund raising parents?
Better coordination of styles?
Less rigid coaches?
more pick up games?

I say it's just better athletes.  Our girls go into it cause nobody pays much attention to basketball or softball in this country.  

Maybe I'm wrong, but when our women have been kicking ass since we had the world cup here however long ago, and often are the best in the world and win gold medals, and yet our males don't.  You can tell me they have different coaches or different rigid styles or whatever, and you might be right.  But I think a huge factor is our best athletes gravitate to it.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Tim Wakefield on 2017-10-11, 11:33

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:Travis is #triggered

https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog/status/918105564177141760

I just don't get the compulsion of weirdos like you that insist on telling everyone that they don't like soccer whenever the topic comes up. You know what I don't like Tim? Fantasy football. It's fucking awful. Am I popping off every time someone talks about fantasy football? No. I just ignore it. Because I don't like it.

You don't like soccer? Fucking neat wake. Don't click on the thread then just to be a douchebag.

I also hate fantasy football* Travis

*American football

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 11:36

Tim Wakefield wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I just don't get the compulsion of weirdos like you that insist on telling everyone that they don't like soccer whenever the topic comes up. You know what I don't like Tim? Fantasy football. It's fucking awful. Am I popping off every time someone talks about fantasy football? No. I just ignore it. Because I don't like it.

You don't like soccer? Fucking neat wake. Don't click on the thread then just to be a douchebag.

I also hate fantasy football* Travis

*American football

Then make sure to check the fantasy football thread to tell them all about it.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 11:44

DWags wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Indoor soccer arenas hurt the development of "outdoor" soccer more than help it.  It's not the same game.  

What does your fundraising to pay for coaches get you?  What do you know about their qualifications?  What are they trying to accomplish with the team?

Travis is on the right track that youth coaching and development sucks.  Beyond the "Billy's Dad" factor, the kids are OVER-coached.  Youth soccer in this country is overly structured and overly organized.  Coaches drill fundamentals so much that kids never learn the technical skills.  They never learn to just play and be creative.  It's a creative sport.  Compare it to basketball?  Ever hear Magic or Jordan or LeBron credit their elementary school coach for working with them on those two handed bounce pass drills, which really upped their game?  No, basketball players by and large credit the playgrounds.  That's where they could be free to express themselves and try things.  

You don't get that with soccer.  You have soccer fields full on Saturdays with overly-structured leagues.  But do you ever see pick up games anywhere?  It's rare.  You need the fundamentals, but you need kids to be able to go out and to try new/different things in the game, without the coach benching them because they didn't listen to his rigid instructions.



I have no idea what the coaching got my kids.  It was somethjing they wanted to do, until they didn't.   It's not a sport for everyone.  You're right, we don't see a lot of "pick up" games of soccer in America.  I know why I think that is.   I also know that the only thing I can follow in that sport is what I've seen in my life.  I saw both nephews play pee wee and I also saw most of the best athletes on those teams end up joing middle school football and never looking back.   That, I guess, is not the case according to you guys, so I'll take your word for it.  Maybe it's because the coaches are rigid, or the game isn't exciting for them.  I have no idea, but the best athletes from my nephews pee wee teams, the ones who scored and defended and were fast, ended up playing football.   You guys tell me that's not so, I believe you.  So, I don't know what the answer is, but I do know we suck at that sport on a world wide basis.  I'll listen and read some of the experts reasons.  I'm interested in knowing why, a country like ours, who loves sports to a fault, who throws their kids into soccer at 3 years and younger, who fund raise and spend all kids of money, who travel with their pre-teens and teens to all kinds of fuck places to play other pre-teens and teens, and stay at packed hotels full of soccer enthusiasts just can't get the ball rolling.

Know why?   And this is the biggest thing why I think my theory is more right than any other....

Our women's teams kick fucking ass.  

Better coaching?
Better indoor facilities?
Better fund raising parents?
Better coordination of styles?
Less rigid coaches?
more pick up games?

I say it's just better athletes.  Our girls go into it cause nobody pays much attention to basketball or softball in this country.  

Maybe I'm wrong, but when our women have been kicking ass since we had the world cup here however long ago, and often are the best in the world and win gold medals, and yet our males don't.  You can tell me they have different coaches or different rigid styles or whatever, and you might be right.  But I think a huge factor is our best athletes gravitate to it.

You're onto something on the italicized part. That's not good either. Pay to play if you will.

But look, you're taking this stance that lebron james is Lebron James because he's lebron James and it was just a matter of which sport he chose- he was always going to be a star. That's not the case. To tag along to the pick up game, even more simple. Kid lebron walking to school- he's got a basketball in his hand. He's dribbling it, maybe bouncing it off of light post, whatever. He's always working on it just for fun. His whole life is basketball. A soccer player isn't dribbling a ball on their way to school (I'm just making this an example here, go with me.) they are going to practice on Tuesday. And playing a game Saturday. And that's it. They aren't constantly fucking around with a soccer ball and developing those skills.

As for the women- other countries are starting to develop their women's programs that were neglected forever. We just used the same development process for women that we did for men. They didn't do anything on the same level for women as they did for men for a long time. We'll see how long our "being awesome" lasts once other countries programs take hold. Hunch- it's not going to. But if it does then we can have that conversation in 20 years.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2017-10-11, 12:29

DWags wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Indoor soccer arenas hurt the development of "outdoor" soccer more than help it.  It's not the same game.  

What does your fundraising to pay for coaches get you?  What do you know about their qualifications?  What are they trying to accomplish with the team?

Travis is on the right track that youth coaching and development sucks.  Beyond the "Billy's Dad" factor, the kids are OVER-coached.  Youth soccer in this country is overly structured and overly organized.  Coaches drill fundamentals so much that kids never learn the technical skills.  They never learn to just play and be creative.  It's a creative sport.  Compare it to basketball?  Ever hear Magic or Jordan or LeBron credit their elementary school coach for working with them on those two handed bounce pass drills, which really upped their game?  No, basketball players by and large credit the playgrounds.  That's where they could be free to express themselves and try things.  

You don't get that with soccer.  You have soccer fields full on Saturdays with overly-structured leagues.  But do you ever see pick up games anywhere?  It's rare.  You need the fundamentals, but you need kids to be able to go out and to try new/different things in the game, without the coach benching them because they didn't listen to his rigid instructions.



I have no idea what the coaching got my kids.  It was somethjing they wanted to do, until they didn't.   It's not a sport for everyone.  You're right, we don't see a lot of "pick up" games of soccer in America.  I know why I think that is.   I also know that the only thing I can follow in that sport is what I've seen in my life.  I saw both nephews play pee wee and I also saw most of the best athletes on those teams end up joing middle school football and never looking back.   That, I guess, is not the case according to you guys, so I'll take your word for it.  Maybe it's because the coaches are rigid, or the game isn't exciting for them.  I have no idea, but the best athletes from my nephews pee wee teams, the ones who scored and defended and were fast, ended up playing football.   You guys tell me that's not so, I believe you.  So, I don't know what the answer is, but I do know we suck at that sport on a world wide basis.  I'll listen and read some of the experts reasons.  I'm interested in knowing why, a country like ours, who loves sports to a fault, who throws their kids into soccer at 3 years and younger, who fund raise and spend all kids of money, who travel with their pre-teens and teens to all kinds of fuck places to play other pre-teens and teens, and stay at packed hotels full of soccer enthusiasts just can't get the ball rolling.

Know why?   And this is the biggest thing why I think my theory is more right than any other....

Our women's teams kick fucking ass.  

Better coaching?
Better indoor facilities?
Better fund raising parents?
Better coordination of styles?
Less rigid coaches?
more pick up games?

I say it's just better athletes.  Our girls go into it cause nobody pays much attention to basketball or softball in this country.  

Maybe I'm wrong, but when our women have been kicking ass since we had the world cup here however long ago, and often are the best in the world and win gold medals, and yet our males don't.  You can tell me they have different coaches or different rigid styles or whatever, and you might be right.  But I think a huge factor is our best athletes gravitate to it.
That's a long diatribe for apparently misreading what was said. Let me try again. I'm not disagreeing at all that our best athletes gravitate to other sports. I'm saying that our US Men's National Team soccer players are as good of athletes as those that are on the national teams of every other country (on average), and far better athletes than Trinidad & Tobago's (who beat us last night), Honduras', Panama's, and Costa Rica's (all who finished above us in the standings for qualification).

So the point is that our failure in soccer at the national team level is NOT an athlete problem. Sure, if our best athletes played soccer, we'd probably have a better team. And it would be pretty crazy to see someone with the size and athleticism of LeBron on a soccer field if he developed even average technical skills (6'6" is usually about as tall as they come in soccer at a major level, and are typically gangly twigs (google "Peter Crouch" or "Marouane Fellaini", two guys with terrible technical ability, but who have carved out long careers just by being tall). But we wouldn't have a team capable of competing for a World Cup championship just because we had better athletes than everyone else.
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-10-11, 12:37

My ten year old nephews soccer game tonight is cancelled because of rain. That's not helping. Get out there and play.

I'm not even sure if I'm joking or serious right now. Half of both I guess.

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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2017-10-11, 12:41

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
As for the women- other countries are starting to develop their women's programs that were neglected forever. We just used the same development process for women that we did for men. They didn't do anything on the same level for women as they did for men for a long time. We'll see how long our "being awesome" lasts once other countries programs take hold. Hunch- it's not going to. But if it does then we can have that conversation in 20 years.
Forgot to come back to Dwags comment on the women's game. Just to expand on what Travis said here, some of the other best countries in the world for women's soccer are Canada, Sweden, Japan, Australia and England, none of which have a very strong men's team. You do have Germany, France, and Brazil, which have good women's teams with good men's teams. There's a definite correlation between how progressive a country is culturally with regards to women and the strength of their women's team.
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Re: Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

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