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Warning, this thread is for soccer (more like Travis and Matty Liverpool chat)

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Post by MiamiSpartan 2017-10-16, 20:11

DWags wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Not a false equivalent of what the article said. The article was saying, "Well, the women are good, so they should take over."  Different level of play, different competition, countries with different social structures. But the article doesn't mention any of that, because it's an article based on tweets.

No one with half a brain (or a definite agenda) is saying that we only need a coaching change. Not sure who you're hearing that from.  It was touched on a little in this thread, and a LOT in tRCMB thread, but it starts at the youth level. Coaching at that level, the overly structured leagues, the pay to play system. It all needs to change.  Getting that change to happen is the hard part.  

So you're talking 20 good years.  15?   Well shit Miami, I'm 56 next month, I do t have that kind of time.

Serious question, are our guys that far behind in skill level at the World Cup or is it Soccer IQ in your opinion.
Skill is where we severely fall behind. We are, overall, better than everyone except Mexico in CONCACAF (our qualifying region, composed of North America and the Caribbean). We should never finish below 2nd in qualifying. All the changes being discussed aren't needed to go to the World Cup. That was largely coaching, combined with player arrogance. The changes are needed to ever be consistently Top 10-15 in the world. If a goal isn't wrongly allowed for Panama against Costa Rica last week, we fall ass backwards into the world cup, and the cracks are papered over.

Compared to the rest of the world, the US is decent at fundamentals. It's the technical skills where we fall short. The touch, the dribbling, the passing, that kind of stuff. We produce world class goal keepers (until now, as we're in a lull with Tim Howard getting old and no one all that great behind him), but goalkeeping is not a technical position. It's the athleticism and reading of the game that makes a keeper, and that the US can produce. It's the other 10 positions where we've never had anyone close to world class (though 19yo Pulisic can become the first).
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-16, 20:17

MiamiSpartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

So you're talking 20 good years.  15?   Well shit Miami, I'm 56 next month, I do t have that kind of time.

Serious question, are our guys that far behind in skill level at the World Cup or is it Soccer IQ in your opinion.
Skill is where we severely fall behind. We are, overall, better than everyone except Mexico in CONCACAF (our qualifying region, composed of North America and the Caribbean). We should never finish below 2nd in qualifying. All the changes being discussed aren't needed to go to the World Cup. That was largely coaching, combined with player arrogance. The changes are needed to ever be consistently Top 10-15 in the world. If a goal isn't wrongly allowed for Panama against Costa Rica last week, we fall ass backwards into the world cup, and the cracks are papered over.

Compared to the rest of the world, the US is decent at fundamentals. It's the technical skills where we fall short. The touch, the dribbling, the passing, that kind of stuff. We produce world class goal keepers (until now, as we're in a lull with Tim Howard getting old and no one all that great behind him), but goalkeeping is not a technical position. It's the athleticism and reading of the game that makes a keeper, and that the US can produce. It's the other 10 positions where we've never had anyone close to world class (though 19yo Pulisic can become the first).

Which makes me think that maybe this isn't such a bad thing.
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Post by MiamiSpartan 2017-10-16, 20:20

Herbie Green wrote:It is the athletes.  If the US has 3,000 elite athletes but none of them play soccer and Germany has 500 elite athletes and 50 of them play soccer, then the USA will never beat Germany.
The US ends up about even with a country 1/50th of the size like Honduras which puts about all of its best athletes in soccer.
Herbs, the players on the US team are as good or better athletes, on average, as any country in the world, including Germany, Brazil, etc. In tRCMB soccer thread the other day, arfabe (who is born and raised Mexican), said he would kill for Mexico to have players with the athletic ability of the US players (just so you know it's not just something that American soccer fans say).

Yes, our best athletes don't play soccer. But in terms of athletic ability, no country produces athletes like our best. Our Tier 2 athletes are comparable to other countries' Tier 1 athletes.
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Post by MiamiSpartan 2017-10-16, 20:21

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Skill is where we severely fall behind. We are, overall, better than everyone except Mexico in CONCACAF (our qualifying region, composed of North America and the Caribbean). We should never finish below 2nd in qualifying. All the changes being discussed aren't needed to go to the World Cup. That was largely coaching, combined with player arrogance. The changes are needed to ever be consistently Top 10-15 in the world. If a goal isn't wrongly allowed for Panama against Costa Rica last week, we fall ass backwards into the world cup, and the cracks are papered over.

Compared to the rest of the world, the US is decent at fundamentals. It's the technical skills where we fall short. The touch, the dribbling, the passing, that kind of stuff. We produce world class goal keepers (until now, as we're in a lull with Tim Howard getting old and no one all that great behind him), but goalkeeping is not a technical position. It's the athleticism and reading of the game that makes a keeper, and that the US can produce. It's the other 10 positions where we've never had anyone close to world class (though 19yo Pulisic can become the first).

Which makes me think that maybe this isn't such a bad thing.
Bad for our egos and short term enjoyment next summer. But DEFINITELY not bad for the long term future of the program.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-16, 20:29

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Which makes me think that maybe this isn't such a bad thing.
Bad for our egos and short term enjoyment next summer. But DEFINITELY not bad for the long term future of the program.

Personally as a cross between the US and Italy fan on the national stage- it's fine. I'll still have my team to root for. And the US was probably going to get swept right out of the first round.

Note- that tie between the US And Italy with Italy going on to win he whole thing in 06 was basically perfect for me.
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Post by Herbie Green 2017-10-17, 00:18

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:It is the athletes.  If the US has 3,000 elite athletes but none of them play soccer and Germany has 500 elite athletes and 50 of them play soccer, then the USA will never beat Germany.
The US ends up about even with a country 1/50th of the size like Honduras which puts about all of its best athletes in soccer.
Herbs, the players on the US team are as good or better athletes, on average, as any country in the world, including Germany, Brazil, etc.  In tRCMB soccer thread the other day, arfabe (who is born and raised Mexican), said he would kill for Mexico to have players with the athletic ability of the US players (just so you know it's not just something that American soccer fans say).

Yes, our best athletes don't play soccer.  But in terms of athletic ability, no country produces athletes like our best. Our Tier 2 athletes are comparable to other countries' Tier 1 athletes.  

Ok, I guess we can agree we are talking about tier 2 U.S. athletes.  These countries would salivate to have our 25th ranked 100M dash guy or 250th ranked basketball player.  I admit I know nothing about soccer beyond that.

I do know something about basketball.  Interestingly, the play has moved from pick up ball to more structured like AAU teams.  But I guess the style of play passed down, as dysfunctional as it can be, produces most of the best players in the world.  It is ingrained in our culture.

  Soccer has no such culture.  Don't we even try to hire foreign coaches to try to manufacture it?
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Post by DWags 2017-10-17, 00:26

MiamiSpartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

So you're talking 20 good years.  15?   Well shit Miami, I'm 56 next month, I do t have that kind of time.

Serious question, are our guys that far behind in skill level at the World Cup or is it Soccer IQ in your opinion.
Skill is where we severely fall behind. We are, overall, better than everyone except Mexico in CONCACAF (our qualifying region, composed of North America and the Caribbean). We should never finish below 2nd in qualifying. All the changes being discussed aren't needed to go to the World Cup. That was largely coaching, combined with player arrogance. The changes are needed to ever be consistently Top 10-15 in the world. If a goal isn't wrongly allowed for Panama against Costa Rica last week, we fall ass backwards into the world cup, and the cracks are papered over.

Compared to the rest of the world, the US is decent at fundamentals. It's the technical skills where we fall short. The touch, the dribbling, the passing, that kind of stuff. We produce world class goal keepers (until now, as we're in a lull with Tim Howard getting old and no one all that great behind him), but goalkeeping is not a technical position. It's the athleticism and reading of the game that makes a keeper, and that the US can produce. It's the other 10 positions where we've never had anyone close to world class (though 19yo Pulisic can become the first).

Thanks. This explains a lot.
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Post by MiamiSpartan 2017-10-17, 14:16

gHost Spartan wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Herbs, the players on the US team are as good or better athletes, on average, as any country in the world, including Germany, Brazil, etc. In tRCMB soccer thread the other day, arfabe (who is born and raised Mexican), said he would kill for Mexico to have players with the athletic ability of the US players (just so you know it's not just something that American soccer fans say).

Yes, our best athletes don't play soccer. But in terms of athletic ability, no country produces athletes like our best. Our Tier 2 athletes are comparable to other countries' Tier 1 athletes.

I don't disagree with your analysis at all but I find it really difficult to believe that out of all the athletes we have in this country we aren't dominating every single sport. When I was a kid we never played soccer. Never. Every Saturday and Sunday we played tackle football somewhere. Summer we played baseball. Now, I never see kids playing anything outside. Do kids only just play in leagues now? I would think that playing pickup games outside after school for years and year and years builds up those skills much more so than playing organized soccer once or twice a week? I dunno... just speculating. I don't know shit
Yes, kids mostly just play in leagues. It's overly organized, and overly sterile. There's just no culture for playground soccer, pick up games, etc. You didn't even mention basketball. How many kids in this country grew up with a hoop nailed on their garage, or knew someone that did? If not, how many kids would walk to a park to shoot hoops? Think back to MSU, and how there were always games going on the courts outside the dorms whenever the weather was nice. That's what it's like in other countries with soccer.
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Post by MiamiSpartan 2017-10-17, 14:38

Couple of names popping up for the USMNT coaching job are Sam Allardyce from England, and Laurent Blanc from France.

Eesh, both have been shrouded in controversy, and carry a lot of baggage. Allardyce wouldn't bring any great tactical revolution by any means (he's kind of a dinosaur in that regard). He was England manager for about a month last year before he was caught on tape telling someone how to skirt some rules regarding player ownership.

I think pretty highly of Blanc's coaching, but he has some racist comments in his past. Not hating blacks or anything, but basically saying that youth coaches in France tend to promote the biggest and fastest kids who are usually black, over kids with more actual soccer skill. It wasn't malicious, but he was stereotyping. I think US Soccer would catch a lot of shit if they hired him.
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-17, 15:41

Here comes Bob Bradley... jk
tbh I would love landing Blanc over Big Sam, fukc the flak.
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Hey Travis, 4-0 Liverpool at the half!
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-17, 15:44

MattyFresh wrote:Here comes Bob Bradley... jk
tbh I would love landing Blanc over Big Sam, fukc the flak.
_____________________

Hey Travis, 4-0 Liverpool at the half!
It's not on my television matty :(
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-17, 15:46

same, I just get updates from the LFC app. I used to have FuboTV, which has the stream online
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-17, 15:49

MattyFresh wrote:same, I just get updates from the LFC app. I used to have FuboTV, which has the stream online
My television said it was going to be on my television but then it was man city instead. I am very mad with my television.
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-17, 15:59

5-0

Roberto Firmino (4')
Philippe Coutinho (13')
Mohamed Salah (19')
Mohamed Salah (40')
Roberto Firmino (54')
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-17, 16:30

MattyFresh wrote:5-0

Roberto Firmino (4')
Philippe Coutinho (13')
Mohamed Salah (19')
Mohamed Salah (40')
Roberto Firmino (54')

6-0 OX! (86')

edit: 7-0 Alexander-Arnold (90')
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Post by aualum06 2017-10-22, 10:23

I don't know a lot but I think a sacking should probably happen
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-22, 11:12

fucks
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-22, 11:21

Not great matty
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-22, 11:24

Better
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-22, 11:24

MO!
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-22, 11:49

PATHETIC
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-22, 11:57

NOT GREAT MATTY
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-28, 10:09

Liverpool vs Huddersfield... dilly dilly
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-28, 10:38

At least lovren got hurt
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-28, 10:42

Fuckin hell matty. Fuckin hell.
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Post by Turtleneck 2017-10-28, 10:45

You guys ever watch American soccer, or are you fine being traitors?
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-28, 10:51

Nah. If Detroit got a team then I certainly would but as it stands there’s no difference between watching teams in Europe and watching those in Seattle or Atlanta or whatever. (Except the teams in Europe don’t conflict with other sports tv schedules so bonus points for being a traitor)
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Post by Turtleneck 2017-10-28, 11:04

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Nah. If Detroit got a team then I certainly would but as it stands there’s no difference between watching teams in Europe and watching those in Seattle or Atlanta or whatever. (Except the teams in Europe don’t conflict with other sports tv schedules so bonus points for being a traitor)

I have been to some of the local USL team's games/matches. I am sorry you hate America.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-28, 11:09

Turtleneck wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Nah. If Detroit got a team then I certainly would but as it stands there’s no difference between watching teams in Europe and watching those in Seattle or Atlanta or whatever. (Except the teams in Europe don’t conflict with other sports tv schedules so bonus points for being a traitor)

I have been to some of the local USL team's games/matches. I am sorry you hate America.

That’s a whole thing here Turtleneck. I kinda hate them. They’re exclusionary hipsters who are one of the main voices actually fighting against Detroit getting an MLS team because they’d prefer to have their little underground club, as hipsters are want to do. Fuck those guys.
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-28, 11:11

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Fuckin hell matty. Fuckin hell.

I know mate its an utter sin but Danny just gave us some room 1-0
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-28, 11:16

MattyFresh wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Fuckin hell matty. Fuckin hell.

I know mate its an utter sin but Danny just gave us some room 1-0

Woooooooo!!!! 2-0
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-28, 11:17

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
MattyFresh wrote:

I know mate its an utter sin but Danny just gave us some room 1-0

Woooooooo!!!! 2-0

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Post by Watch Out Pylon! 2017-10-28, 11:19

Hey soccer dudes. I see this #savethecrew stuff on Game day. Where is the Columbus team moving to?
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-28, 11:20

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Hey soccer dudes. I see this #savethecrew stuff on Game day. Where is the Columbus team moving to?

Austin, TX. Maybe.
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-28, 11:51

MattyFresh wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Hey soccer dudes. I see this #savethecrew stuff on Game day. Where is the Columbus team moving to?

Austin, TX. Maybe.

Columbus attendance has been dwindling the last few years and its another one of those new stadium vs city mayor and shit disasters while people down in Austin are all willing and able. Speaking of attendance, MLS matches were set higher average attendance than both the Italian Serie A and French Ligue 1, probably the 3rd and 4th best leagues in the world being the Primier League and Span's La Liga.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/24/mls-surpasses-serie-ligue-1-popularity-stakes-after-new-attendance-records-2017
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Post by Turtleneck 2017-10-28, 12:13

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

I have been to some of the local USL team's games/matches. I am sorry you hate America.

That’s a whole thing here Turtleneck. I kinda hate them. They’re exclusionary hipsters who are one of the main voices actually fighting against Detroit getting an MLS team because they’d prefer to have their little underground club, as hipsters are want to do. Fuck those guys.

Detroit does not have a USL team, and that is not the crowd at the USL games here. The team here plays in a 13-14k seat stadium, and 5k would be an amazing turnout. When they are gone the city will have a nice empty stadium and one less reason to convince people outside the city to visit.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-28, 12:15

Turtleneck wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

That’s a whole thing here Turtleneck. I kinda hate them. They’re exclusionary hipsters who are one of the main voices actually fighting against Detroit getting an MLS team because they’d prefer to have their little underground club, as hipsters are want to do. Fuck those guys.

Detroit does not have a USL team, and that is not the crowd at the USL games here. The team here plays in a 13-14k seat stadium, and 5k would be an amazing turnout. When they are gone the city will have a nice empty stadium and one less reason to convince people outside the city to visit.

Whatever minor league the Detroit team is in. There is one and at first it seemed neat and fun but now that they’re trying to stand in the way of a real league they’re douchebags and I hope their team folds.
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-28, 14:04

you guys realize that's a semi pro team in Detroit or 4th division that averaged nearly 5k this year, I went to one of their matches a while back while in town and it was pretty crazy. Obviously it was nothing compared to the Sounders match I went to a few years back, that was super crazy
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2017-10-28, 14:07

MattyFresh wrote:you guys realize that's a semi pro team in Detroit or 4th division that averaged nearly 5k this year, I went to one of their matches a while back while in town and it was pretty crazy. Obviously it was nothing compared to the Sounders match I went to a few years back, that was super crazy

Yeah, I know. And they’re fucking assholes hipster douchebags about it. They could be cool and say “yeah let’s bring in mls and we’ll do the same stuff and get a ton more people involved” but instead they want to keep their little club thing so they can be ironic or whatever and they don’t want the big guy moving into town so they don’t become irrelevant. Fuck them on every fucking level matty. Fuck them. I hope the team folds.
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Post by MattyFresh 2017-10-28, 14:09

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
MattyFresh wrote:you guys realize that's a semi pro team in Detroit or 4th division that averaged nearly 5k this year, I went to one of their matches a while back while in town and it was pretty crazy. Obviously it was nothing compared to the Sounders match I went to a few years back, that was super crazy

Yeah, I know. And they’re fucking assholes hipster douchebags about it. They could be cool and say “yeah let’s bring in mls and we’ll do the same stuff and get a ton more people involved” but instead they want to keep their little club thing so they can be ironic or whatever and they don’t want the big guy moving into town so they don’t become irrelevant. Fuck them on every fucking level matty. Fuck them. I hope the team folds.

I feel like Travis has been wronged by DCFC in some manner, were you denied a position in the front office?
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