Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

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Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-04-08, 09:54

Sorry Sweethearts, gerrymandering isn't the problem.

Why you should stop blaming gerrymandering so much. Really.

Gerrymandering is an easy punching bag, and it deserves its reputation. Every 10 years, Republicans and Democrats across the country draw the most favorable districts for their own political purposes, sometimes leaving contorted maps in their wakes.

But gerrymandering is also blamed too much for too many things — especially for our political polarization and for Republicans' strong advantage in the House. Just last week, an op-ed in The Washington Post blamed gerrymandering for breeding the conservative Freedom Caucus, which thwarted the GOP health-care bill.

Some new data from the Cook Political Report shows how overwrought this is.


Gerrymandering! Right!? Not so much.

If you look at the bottom of the chart, the biggest declines in competitive districts happened between elections — not after rounds of redistricting. In fact, 83 percent of the districts that moved out of the “swing” category — again, R+5 to D+5 — did so without being redrawn.

Only 14 districts moved from swing seats to solidly Republican — R+5 or greater — after redistricting, while 33 did so through the normal political evolution of the American voter.


And for a chaser some of your "more intelligent" liberals whining about gerrymandered Senate seats. These are the people you libs revere while scoffing at the "country hicks"





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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by DWags on 2017-04-08, 09:59

Holy shit this is like fucking 1984. If gerrymandering doesn't help, why does it exist?

People are stupid.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-04-08, 10:10

LooseGoose wrote:Sorry Sweethearts, gerrymandering isn't the problem.

Why you should stop blaming gerrymandering so much. Really.

Gerrymandering is an easy punching bag, and it deserves its reputation. Every 10 years, Republicans and Democrats across the country draw the most favorable districts for their own political purposes, sometimes leaving contorted maps in their wakes.

But gerrymandering is also blamed too much for too many things — especially for our political polarization and for Republicans' strong advantage in the House. Just last week, an op-ed in The Washington Post blamed gerrymandering for breeding the conservative Freedom Caucus, which thwarted the GOP health-care bill.

Some new data from the Cook Political Report shows how overwrought this is.


Gerrymandering! Right!? Not so much.

If you look at the bottom of the chart, the biggest declines in competitive districts happened between elections — not after rounds of redistricting. In fact, 83 percent of the districts that moved out of the “swing” category — again, R+5 to D+5 — did so without being redrawn.

Only 14 districts moved from swing seats to solidly Republican — R+5 or greater — after redistricting, while 33 did so through the normal political evolution of the American voter.


And for a chaser some of your "more intelligent" liberals whining about gerrymandered Senate seats.   These are the people you libs revere while scoffing at the "country hicks"




Look talk about whatever you want but don't put up some talking heads from cable news saying stupid shit like you're making some point. We could play that game alllllllllll fuckin day. Flip on msnbc there's some face in a box saying stupid shit. Flip it over to fox there's some different guy whose face is in a box saying stupid shit. If there's one thing cable news is good for (and there might not be) it's unintentional comedy when they say stupid shit.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-04-08, 11:10

Pick a state and look how the Congressional districts are drawn. Then pick a district ct and look at the demographics of that particular district.

This is just more news from Goosechev, the Russian Times stringer in Mio. The same guy who posted the counties won map like it meant something.

https://www.census.gov/mycd/
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by Cameron on 2017-04-08, 11:55

I don't care if gerrymandering is effective or not, and I don't care who is responsible for it. It is stupid and it should stop. Whether it's actually harmful or not, it gives the perception of gamesmanship and impropriety, thereby reducing confidence and trust in our democratic process, so unless there is some good reason to continue the practice, it ought to be done away with with all possible haste.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-04-08, 17:21

GRR Spartan wrote:Pick a state and look how the Congressional districts are drawn.  Then pick  a district ct and look at the demographics of that particular district.  

This is just more news from Goosechev, the Russian Times stringer in Mio.  The same guy who posted the counties won map like it meant something.

https://www.census.gov/mycd/

Actually it's news from the Washington Post but why bother being accurate, no one is going to call you out on it.

and you're the same guy in the same party that keeps referring to the popular vote totals as if they mean something in a Presidential election.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-04-08, 17:23

Cameron wrote:I don't care if gerrymandering is effective or not, and I don't care who is responsible for it. It is stupid and it should stop. Whether it's actually harmful or not, it gives the perception of gamesmanship and impropriety, thereby reducing confidence and trust in our democratic process, so unless there is some good reason to continue the practice, it ought to be done away with with all possible haste.

Good luck with ending something that's been going on for 200+ years. People have been jawing about it for just as long.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by NigelUno on 2017-04-09, 12:33

LooseGoose wrote:Sorry Sweethearts, gerrymandering isn't the problem.

Why you should stop blaming gerrymandering so much. Really.

Gerrymandering is an easy punching bag, and it deserves its reputation. Every 10 years, Republicans and Democrats across the country draw the most favorable districts for their own political purposes, sometimes leaving contorted maps in their wakes.

But gerrymandering is also blamed too much for too many things — especially for our political polarization and for Republicans' strong advantage in the House. Just last week, an op-ed in The Washington Post blamed gerrymandering for breeding the conservative Freedom Caucus, which thwarted the GOP health-care bill.

Some new data from the Cook Political Report shows how overwrought this is.


Gerrymandering! Right!? Not so much.

If you look at the bottom of the chart, the biggest declines in competitive districts happened between elections — not after rounds of redistricting. In fact, 83 percent of the districts that moved out of the “swing” category — again, R+5 to D+5 — did so without being redrawn.

Only 14 districts moved from swing seats to solidly Republican — R+5 or greater — after redistricting, while 33 did so through the normal political evolution of the American voter.


And for a chaser some of your "more intelligent" liberals whining about gerrymandered Senate seats. These are the people you libs revere while scoffing at the "country hicks"





I love your "country hick" narrative. As if Trump is a man of the people.

You're still trying to sell that?

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-04-09, 13:18

Comrade Goosechev picking and choosing. Tell the Spanish speakers in Texas or black folks in any number of states what voice they have.

Right here in MI the GOP has taken advantage of drawning state and Congressional legislative districts making it nearly impossible for Democrats to come close to a getting a majority. Yet Democrats have won state wide elections.

I get it Goosechev. You, Trump and Putin all favor aurhoritarian government.
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by DWags on 2017-04-09, 13:23

GRR Spartan wrote:Comrade Goosechev picking and choosing. Tell the Spanish speakers in Texas or black folks in any number of states what voice they have.

Right here in MI the GOP has taken advantage of drawning state and Congressional legislative districts making it nearly impossible for Democrats to come close to a getting a majority. Yet Democrats have won state wide elections.

I get it Goosechev. You, Trump and Putin all favor aurhoritarian government.

But he's a conservative.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by Rocinante on 2017-04-09, 15:01

LooseGoose wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:Pick a state and look how the Congressional districts are drawn.  Then pick  a district ct and look at the demographics of that particular district.  

This is just more news from Goosechev, the Russian Times stringer in Mio.  The same guy who posted the counties won map like it meant something.

https://www.census.gov/mycd/

Actually it's news from the Washington Post but why bother being accurate, no one is going to call you out on it.

and you're the same guy in the same party that keeps referring to the popular vote totals as if they mean something in a Presidential election.

Actually it's Analysis. Not news. And he also says it's very bad. Just not the only problem. Which I think any reasonable person would agree with.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-04-09, 16:05

"and you're the same guy in the same party that keeps referring to the popular vote totals as if they mean something in a Presidential election."

Another Trump/Putinesque lie from Goosechev.

The electoral College is THE ONLY election result that counts. I have said that multiple times and a major reason we have President Trump was the Clinton campaign's inability to get out just 25% of the people who voted for President Obama twice to the polls in November.

That doesn't take away from th fact gerrymandering exists. It effectively captures a legislature. State of Federal.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by Floyd Robertson on 2017-04-11, 10:26

FTR, I haven't watched this yet.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by steveschneider on 2017-04-11, 10:32

The big problem liberals ignore is their own apathy.

Apathy cost them in 2016, 2014 and 2010.

I see so many of my left and far left friends on FB eager to throw away their votes on Jill Stein or buy into some myth that their latest march or protest is going to make more effective change than voting.

I credit the right, they turn out to vote and they hold their politicians accountable. The left not so much.
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by steveschneider on 2017-04-11, 10:38

Regarding gerrymandering, I think the problem is you have politicians picking their voters and the voters should be picking the politicians.

You have all these politicians in government that come from either left or right districts and they don't compromise and they don't work together.
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by Rocinante on 2017-04-11, 11:38

steveschneider wrote:The big problem liberals ignore is their own apathy.

Apathy cost them in 2016, 2014 and 2010.

I see so many of my left and far left friends on FB eager to throw away their votes on Jill Stein or buy into some myth that their latest march or protest is going to make more effective change than voting.

I credit the right, they turn out to vote and they hold their politicians accountable. The left not so much.

Yeah, they're old and have nothing else to do.

I watched the French election coverage and they were like 80% turn out is low, and I was like Shocked

We need to instill in young folks that there is an effect to voting or not voting.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by steveschneider on 2017-04-11, 12:07

Rocinante wrote:
steveschneider wrote:The big problem liberals ignore is their own apathy.

Apathy cost them in 2016, 2014 and 2010.

I see so many of my left and far left friends on FB eager to throw away their votes on Jill Stein or buy into some myth that their latest march or protest is going to make more effective change than voting.

I credit the right, they turn out to vote and they hold their politicians accountable. The left not so much.

Yeah, they're old and have nothing else to do.

I watched the French election coverage and they were like 80% turn out is low, and I was like Shocked

We need to instill in young folks that there is an effect to voting or not voting.

I agree 100%.

I read an article with Chuck Schumer, he did very informal polling at the womens March in NYC so it wasn't very scientific but he said something like 20% of the people they polled didn't vote and 10% voted for someone else.

Electing politicians that are going to represent your agenda is far more effective than going out Marching. The Tea Party is far more effective, they get politicians into government. The occupy movement got zero into government.
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by DWags on 2017-04-11, 12:53

steveschneider wrote:The big problem liberals ignore is their own apathy.

Apathy cost them in 2016, 2014 and 2010.

I see so many of my left and far left friends on FB eager to throw away their votes on Jill Stein or buy into some myth that their latest march or protest is going to make more effective change than voting.

I credit the right, they turn out to vote and they hold their politicians accountable. The left not so much.

It's also why there is systematic attempts by many states to make it difficult for certain segments in society to vote. We could go down that worm hole real quick in this thread. Especially about Official I.D. needed to vote.

But yeah, the left had to get mad and see what's happening here. It's nobodies fault but their own. The leaders of the democratic party should be investigated and possibly jailed for what they did to Bernie. They brought this result on largely by themselves. They need to look in thge mirror.

that last night schlepping out the Clointon's the Obama's Bruce and Bon Jovi on one stage in Philly should be put in picture frames and brought to every democratic party meeting with the saying "Those who do the same thing over and over and expect a different result are insane".

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by steveschneider on 2017-04-11, 13:00

DWags wrote:
steveschneider wrote:The big problem liberals ignore is their own apathy.

Apathy cost them in 2016, 2014 and 2010.

I see so many of my left and far left friends on FB eager to throw away their votes on Jill Stein or buy into some myth that their latest march or protest is going to make more effective change than voting.

I credit the right, they turn out to vote and they hold their politicians accountable. The left not so much.

It's also why there is systematic attempts by many states to make it difficult for certain segments in society to vote. We could go down that worm hole real quick in this thread. Especially about Official I.D. needed to vote.

But yeah, the left had to get mad and see what's happening here. It's nobodies fault but their own. The leaders of the democratic party should be investigated and possibly jailed for what they did to Bernie. They brought this result on largely by themselves. They need to look in thge mirror.

that last night schlepping out the Clointon's the Obama's Bruce and Bon Jovi on one stage in Philly should be put in picture frames and brought to every democratic party meeting with the saying "Those who do the same thing over and over and expect a different result are insane".

I voted for Bernie but what happened to him was fair game imo. Politics is dirty business, it always has been and always will be.

Look at how dirty the campaign was for the Republicans. Look at what Karl Rove did to politicians on the left and right.

The race between Hillary and Obama was as dirty as the one in 2016.

Bernie ran a clean campaign, but his opponents aren't going to return the favor in kind.
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by NigelUno on 2017-05-22, 10:38

Jim Sciutto‏Verified account
@jimsciutto

Breaking: Supreme Court strikes down two NC congressional district maps, holding state engaged in unconstitutional gerrymander.



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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-05-22, 10:48

But but but the GOP and those who favor one party authoritarian government say it isn't so.

Look at how many counties Trump won.
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-05-22, 13:06

Looks like the SCOTUS agreed that the NC GOP looked at demographics and drew the districts to put most of the minority voters into 2 districts.
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-05-22, 13:11

GRR Spartan wrote:Looks like the SCOTUS agreed that the NC GOP looked at demographics and drew the districts to put most of the minority voters into 2 districts.

Which is called for by the Voting Rights Act - Minority Majority Districts.

So they followed the law.....amazing.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by NigelUno on 2017-05-22, 13:22

LooseGoose wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:Looks like the SCOTUS agreed that the NC GOP looked at demographics and drew the districts to put most of the minority voters into 2 districts.

Which is called for by the Voting Rights Act - Minority Majority Districts.

So they followed the law.....amazing.

Dang. So, the Supreme Court got it wrong?

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-05-22, 14:42

I guess the conscious of Mio will be calling for a more authoritarian SCOTUS with more justices appointed by our authoritarian President so we get the activist judiciary we need to take our country back.
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-05-22, 17:51

I love having my congressional rep's home town so close to my own. He knows the problems we face; it's like he's really a part of my own community. East Lansing and Rochester really should be sister cities.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-05-22, 17:56

NigelUno wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Which is called for by the Voting Rights Act - Minority Majority Districts.

So they followed the law.....amazing.

Dang. So, the Supreme Court got it wrong?

"Just because the Supreme Court rules on something doesn’t necessarily mean that that’s constitutional" - Rep. Jim Bridenstine, R-OK, March 2013

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-05-22, 19:45

Pretty involved article on this....
Supreme Court Strikes Down Majority-Minority Districts for Being Majority-Minority

by DAN MCLAUGHLIN May 22, 2017 3:05 PM @BASEBALLCRANK
The Supreme Court this morning, in Cooper v. Harris, struck down North Carolina’s Congressional map on the grounds that two districts (District 1 and District 12) were unconstitutionally based on race. The 5-3 opinion was written by Justice Kagan; Justice Thomas joined with the court’s liberals in the majority, while Justices Alito, Roberts, and Kennedy dissented in part. (Justice Gorsuch did not participate, as the case had already been argued, and one more vote would not change the outcome). Naturally, the media spin on this decision is knee-jerk characterizations of Republicans as racist, but the actual issues here are about the collision between two irreconcilable visions of district-drawing: (1) the prohibition on considering race in drawing district lines, and (2) the liberal view that the Voting Rights Act requires race to be considered in order to draw “majority-minority” districts. The decision illustrates the “heads I win, tails you lose” nature of the liberal attack on Republican – but only Republican – gerrymandering, as the Court had previously upheld similar actions taken by North Carolina Democrats. Now, let’s be blunt: in gerrymandering cases, nearly nobody cares about anything but advancing their party’s odds of winning elections. Justice Thomas has been virtually alone in taking the principled line, regardless of whose partisan ox is being gored or what the Court has done previously, that racial gerrymandering is virtually always unconstitutional. Specifically, Thomas’ longstanding view is that the Fourteenth Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause imposes “strict scrutiny” (a standard that is nearly impossible to satisfy) when districts are drawn with race primarily in mind, and that this includes districts drawn to create “majority-minority” districts (Thomas believes that the VRA does not require any such thing). The Court’s opinion doesn’t go that far, but it does advance the judicial grounds for throwing out racial gerrymanders, and it effectively overturns a 2001 decision, known as Cromartie II, that had upheld nearly the same District 12.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-01, 18:31

Maryland Democrats finally confess to gerrymandering a Republican out of office

The plaintiffs are asking for an independent board to set up a new map and it’s a common demand around the country. But how truly “independent” can any such body be these days? I’ve brought this up before and I doubt anyone is going to listen this time, but we actually have software now which could redraw all of the maps into the most contiguous, compact shapes possible without regard for voting history, racial profiles or any other demographics. Do that once every ten years and let the chips fall where they may. At least it would be evenly and fairly divided.

Will anyone argue against this?

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-06-01, 18:36

Aren't you the one that was arguing against that?

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-01, 18:42

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Aren't you the one that was arguing against that?

Nope. I'm fine with blind drawing of Districts. I'm against "non partisan commissions" since I don't believe such a thing exists.

Feed a computer a list of priorities and let it work.

Make as geographically compact as possible. Try to maintain existing governmental units. Allow no information on voting records, race, sex, etc be entered.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by Cameron on 2017-06-01, 18:59

LooseGoose wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Aren't you the one that was arguing against that?

Nope. I'm fine with blind drawing of Districts. I'm against "non partisan commissions" since I don't believe such a thing exists.

Feed a computer a list of priorities and let it work.

Make as geographically compact as possible. Try to maintain existing governmental units. Allow no information on voting records, race, sex, etc be entered.

I'm in.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-06-01, 19:02

LooseGoose wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Aren't you the one that was arguing against that?

Nope. I'm fine with blind drawing of Districts. I'm against "non partisan commissions" since I don't believe such a thing exists.

Feed a computer a list of priorities and let it work.

Make as geographically compact as possible. Try to maintain existing governmental units. Allow no information on voting records, race, sex, etc be entered.

Okay, then yeah I don't think anyone would be against that. Here at least. Those in power that might lose their seat, they might not like it.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-06-01, 19:15

LooseGoose wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:Looks like the SCOTUS agreed that the NC GOP looked at demographics and drew the districts to put most of the minority voters into 2 districts.

Which is called for by the Voting Rights Act - Minority Majority Districts.

So they followed the law.....amazing.

Your cherry picking ass got kicked and your are scrambling.

Your version of America and mine aren't even close.

You want to break laws you deem foolish like smoking dope but want to take away women's decision to end a pregnancy.  

You think gerrymandering for political means is acceptable for a democracy to work.  I think all state and Federal political districts should be based on geographical and population done by non-partisan groups.

You show up here as a cheerleader and seem to support a one party system with an authoritarian President who supports Putin and other world despots.
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-01, 20:45

GRR Spartan wrote:You want to break laws you deem foolish like smoking dope


You certainly do have a propensity to jump to conclusions.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-24, 17:47

Erick Erickson‏Verified account @EWErickson 1h1 hour ago
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This is how the Democrats drew Georgia’s districts in 2001 before the left cared about gerrymandering.


PS - Note this was DEMS in charge in Georgia in 2001. Please tell me again how the VRA in 1965 swung all the votes in the South to those racist Republicans.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by msugolfguy on 2017-06-25, 08:55

I've always cared about Gerrymandering and actual a lot of my more Democratic friends have since we were able to vote around 2001 or so. I think it's always been a issue with a lot of people on both sides.

PS. Those lines have since been redrawn. I kind of get your point but it's pretty weak.
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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by DWags on 2017-06-25, 09:09

Here we are again talking about our government fucking with elections and electorates and all of us have the intellectual capacity to know that these games are played to help one side or the other but will argue with each other instead of fixing the problem. Whether it's giving black people an impossible test to pass in the 50's down south to vote and grandfathering white people in, or not having enough voting booths per population as certain districts do or sending shitty booths to areas of high dem/rep voters and good ones to the opposite side or allowing phony names to vote or winking at Russian interference because they helped our side. It's all an assault on the number one thing America shines on. And anyone who defends this shit isn't worth wasting time on. Work to fix it or keep rolling towards the oligarchy we don't seem to mind that's coming.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-06-25, 09:27

msugolfguy wrote:I've always cared about Gerrymandering and actual a lot of my more Democratic friends have since we were able to vote around 2001 or so. I think it's always been a issue with a lot of people on both sides.

PS. Those lines have since been redrawn. I kind of get your point but it's pretty weak.

Glad you get the point. Whichever party is in charge at the State level has always gerrymandered to help themselves, it was one of several reasons the Dems controlled the House from 1954-1994. Of course back then they were more generally in favor of gerrymandering.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

Post by DWags on 2017-06-25, 09:48

LooseGoose wrote:
msugolfguy wrote:I've always cared about Gerrymandering and actual a lot of my more Democratic friends have since we were able to vote around 2001 or so. I think it's always been a issue with a lot of people on both sides.

PS. Those lines have since been redrawn. I kind of get your point but it's pretty weak.

Glad you get the point. Whichever party is in charge at the State level has always gerrymandered to help themselves, it was one of several reasons the Dems controlled the House from 1954-1994. Of course back then they were more generally in favor of gerrymandering.

And...? "Obama" ??? You've always been part of the problem Goose. Sorry that's a fact. Revenge not correction. It won't end either. Just get worse.

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Re: Washington Post pops another Liberal balloon. Gerrymandering.

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