The 2020 Presidential campaign.

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Post by Cameron on 09/07/19, 03:30 pm

steveschneider wrote:Here is some more in depth reporting on the Larsen case.

"Harris’s actions in the Daniel Larsen case are particularly concerning.

The Larsen case was a travesty of justice from start to finish. In 1999, when two police officers claimed they saw Larsen, who had earlier in his life been convicted for burglary, pull a six-inch-long knife from his waistband and throw it under a car, he was sentenced to twenty-seven years to life under the three-strikes law supported by Harris.

Forget for a second that the sentence was unduly harsh for the crime in question. Police had wrongly targeted Larsen for a search in the first place, and witnesses reported that it wasn’t Larsen but the man he was with who had thrown the knife. In trial, Larsen’s incompetent lawyer (who would later be disbarred) didn’t investigate a single witness, nor present one in trial.

Eleven years later, a judge reversed the conviction due to the lack of evidence and incompetence of Larson’s attorney’s. Yet two years later, Larsen was still in jail. Why? Because Harris, now a vocal opponent of mass incarceration, appealed the judge’s decision on the basis that Larsen had filed his paperwork too late — a technicality.

Tens of thousands of people petitioned Harris to release Larsen, and numerous civil rights groups similarly called on her to do the right thing. But even when he was eventually released from custody after fourteen years, Harris challenged his release, and five months later Larsen was back in court, fighting to stay out of prison for a crime he didn’t commit."

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/08/kamala-harris-trump-obama-california-attorney-general

I think that one could come back to haunt her.

It damn well should. lady.
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Post by AvgMSUJoe on 09/07/19, 03:54 pm

So, it strikes me as kinda gross that a judgement call in a professional setting where a person could be swayed by facts one way or another is what will do in any Dem... But they running against the largest ignorant turd on the face of the planet with no redeeming qualities AT ALL.
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Post by Cameron on 09/07/19, 04:03 pm

AvgMSUJoe wrote:So, it strikes me as kinda gross that a judgement call in a professional setting where a person could be swayed by facts one way or another is what will do in any Dem... But they running against the largest ignorant turd on the face of the planet with no redeeming qualities AT ALL.

Republicans and Democrats have been playing the same game with different rules for years now. It's why Democrats do nothing but lose.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 09/07/19, 05:44 pm

Cameron wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:So, it strikes me as kinda gross that a judgement call in a professional setting where a person could be swayed by facts one way or another is what will do in any Dem... But they running against the largest ignorant turd on the face of the planet with no redeeming qualities AT ALL.

Republicans and Democrats have been playing the same game with different rules for years now. It's why Democrats do nothing but lose.
Ok, I have to ask, what are the different rules?
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Post by InTenSity on 09/07/19, 06:48 pm

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Republicans and Democrats have been playing the same game with different rules for years now. It's why Democrats do nothing but lose.
Ok, I have to ask, what are the different rules?
Democrats tend to tear each other down and hold each other responsible. Republicans scream guns and socialism.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 09/07/19, 07:02 pm

InTenSity wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Ok, I have to ask, what are the different rules?
Democrats tend to tear each other down and hold each other responsible. Republicans scream guns and socialism.
America is a stupid country.
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Post by tGreenWay on 09/07/19, 08:03 pm

Hey Bob, is that your Pete for President sign on Wildwood?
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Post by Cameron on 10/07/19, 09:56 am

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Republicans and Democrats have been playing the same game with different rules for years now. It's why Democrats do nothing but lose.
Ok, I have to ask, what are the different rules?

A lot of it probably comes down to a general sense I have about the good faith (and lack thereof) demonstrated by the two parties, and much of that is difficult to articulate. Perhaps that means I've made an unsupportable assertion, but I'll give it a go anyhow.

Consider that Al Franken resigned in 2017, but Brett Kavanaugh currently sits on the Supreme Court. See, also: Moore, Roy.

Take something like gerrymandering. I'm speaking at least partially out of ignorance here, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Democrats have certainly done some gerrymandering. Republicans seem to be committed to doing it harder, better, faster, stronger (also, more racist).

Look at everything Bitch McConnell has ever done and said. Can't consider Merrick Garland in 2016, but if a seat opens up in 2020, old-age mutant ninja turtle is on the record that he would ram one through.

Others feel free to pile on, I know that's the spirit of the bin and I'm running out of steam at the moment.


Last edited by Cameron on 10/07/19, 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by steveschneider on 10/07/19, 10:01 am

AvgMSUJoe wrote:So, it strikes me as kinda gross that a judgement call in a professional setting where a person could be swayed by facts one way or another is what will do in any Dem... But they running against the largest ignorant turd on the face of the planet with no redeeming qualities AT ALL.

Spot on, AvgMSUJoe. Couldn't agree more. I'll say this I'd have zero problems voting for any of the candidates in the general election. Any of the issues I have with any of the candidates are minuscule vs Trump.
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Post by steveschneider on 10/07/19, 10:26 am

Cameron wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Ok, I have to ask, what are the different rules?

A lot of it probably comes down to a general sense I have about the good faith (and lack thereof) demonstrated by the two parties, and much of that is difficult to articulate. Perhaps that means I've made an unsupportable assertion, but I'll give it a go anyhow.

Consider that Al Franken resigned in 2017, but Brett Kavanaugh currently sits on the Supreme Court. See, also: Moore, Roy.

Take something like gerrymandering. I'm speaking at least partially out of ignorance here, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Democrats have certainly done some gerrymandering. Republicans seem to be committed to doing it harder, better, faster, stronger (also, more racist).

Look at everything Bitch McConnell has ever done and said. Can't consider Merrick Garland in 2016, but if a seat opens up in 2020, old-age mutant ninja turtle is on the record that he would ram one through.

Others feel free to pile on, I know that's the spirit of the bin and I'm running out of steam at the moment.

This is easy to answer. One of many examples, just look at the way the press handles the two parties....WP ran an opinion about Trump's polling and has him as a heavy favorite to win re-election. Do you think they'd ever run an op-ed like this if the Dems had a president in office that was polling at 43% never went above 50% and says crazy loony shit like windmills give you cancer? Not a chance in hell.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 10/07/19, 10:30 am

Cameron wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Ok, I have to ask, what are the different rules?

A lot of it probably comes down to a general sense I have about the good faith (and lack thereof) demonstrated by the two parties, and much of that is difficult to articulate. Perhaps that means I've made an unsupportable assertion, but I'll give it a go anyhow.

Consider that Al Franken resigned in 2017, but Brett Kavanaugh currently sits on the Supreme Court. See, also: Moore, Roy.

Take something like gerrymandering. I'm speaking at least partially out of ignorance here, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Democrats have certainly done some gerrymandering. Republicans seem to be committed to doing it harder, better, faster, stronger (also, more racist).

Look at everything Bitch McConnell has ever done and said. Can't consider Merrick Garland in 2016, but if a seat opens up in 2020, old-age mutant ninja turtle is on the record that he would ram one through.

Others feel free to pile on, I know that's the spirit of the bin and I'm running out of steam at the moment.
Both parties are full of sleazy, lying scumbags that will do whatever they can to get power.

You said that is why the Democrats keep losing, but you do remember that Obama fella for 8 years, right? Additionally, over the last 14 years, the Democrats have had control of the Senate for 8 of those, and control of Congress for 6 of those, so that's pretty well balanced.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 10/07/19, 10:34 am

tGreenWay wrote:Hey Bob, is that your Pete for President sign on Wildwood?
not me, man... though I believe I know the house you're referring to.

I'm an Elizabeth Warren man up and down the line.

(I'm sorry if this offends some people).
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Post by Cameron on 10/07/19, 10:46 am

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:

A lot of it probably comes down to a general sense I have about the good faith (and lack thereof) demonstrated by the two parties, and much of that is difficult to articulate. Perhaps that means I've made an unsupportable assertion, but I'll give it a go anyhow.

Consider that Al Franken resigned in 2017, but Brett Kavanaugh currently sits on the Supreme Court. See, also: Moore, Roy.

Take something like gerrymandering. I'm speaking at least partially out of ignorance here, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Democrats have certainly done some gerrymandering. Republicans seem to be committed to doing it harder, better, faster, stronger (also, more racist).

Look at everything Bitch McConnell has ever done and said. Can't consider Merrick Garland in 2016, but if a seat opens up in 2020, old-age mutant ninja turtle is on the record that he would ram one through.

Others feel free to pile on, I know that's the spirit of the bin and I'm running out of steam at the moment.
Both parties are full of sleazy, lying scumbags that will do whatever they can to get power.

You said that is why the Democrats keep losing, but you do remember that Obama fella for 8 years, right?  Additionally, over the last 14 years, the Democrats have had control of the Senate for 8 of those, and control of Congress for 6 of those, so that's pretty well balanced.

Fair points. One of my least favorite things about republicans is that they sometimes trick me into defending democrats. I don't dispute that there are scumbags on both sides. To me, the difference lies in the relative depths of their depravity.

In regards to election success, I am given to understand that democrats typically win a higher percentage of the vote than their representation reflects, but that certainly could be a misapprehension on my part, as I am presently unable to conjure any specific examples or numbers to mind (other than the obvious electoral college impacts on the presidency). But that's largely encompassed in the gerrymandering issue anyhow.
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Post by Cameron on 10/07/19, 10:47 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:Hey Bob, is that your Pete for President sign on Wildwood?
not me, man... though I believe I know the house you're referring to.

I'm an Elizabeth Warren man up and down the line.

(I'm sorry if this offends some people).

Hypothetical choice between Warren and Hillary, who do you prefer? To me, the choice is clear, but I'm very curious how you feel about it.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 10/07/19, 11:53 am

Cameron wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
not me, man... though I believe I know the house you're referring to.

I'm an Elizabeth Warren man up and down the line.

(I'm sorry if this offends some people).

Hypothetical choice between Warren and Hillary, who do you prefer? To me, the choice is clear, but I'm very curious how you feel about it.
though I adore Hillary and have never believed the GOP/mainstream media smear machine with regard to her, I'd prefer Liz.
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Post by Cameron on 10/07/19, 11:55 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Hypothetical choice between Warren and Hillary, who do you prefer? To me, the choice is clear, but I'm very curious how you feel about it.
though I adore Hillary and have never believed the GOP/mainstream media smear machine with regard to her, I'd prefer Liz.

Good for you, I also prefer Warren.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 10/07/19, 11:57 am

Cameron wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:though I adore Hillary and have never believed the GOP/mainstream media smear machine with regard to her, I'd prefer Liz.

Good for you, I also prefer Warren.
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Post by kingstonlake on 10/07/19, 12:02 pm

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:

A lot of it probably comes down to a general sense I have about the good faith (and lack thereof) demonstrated by the two parties, and much of that is difficult to articulate. Perhaps that means I've made an unsupportable assertion, but I'll give it a go anyhow.

Consider that Al Franken resigned in 2017, but Brett Kavanaugh currently sits on the Supreme Court. See, also: Moore, Roy.

Take something like gerrymandering. I'm speaking at least partially out of ignorance here, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Democrats have certainly done some gerrymandering. Republicans seem to be committed to doing it harder, better, faster, stronger (also, more racist).

Look at everything Bitch McConnell has ever done and said. Can't consider Merrick Garland in 2016, but if a seat opens up in 2020, old-age mutant ninja turtle is on the record that he would ram one through.

Others feel free to pile on, I know that's the spirit of the bin and I'm running out of steam at the moment.
Both parties are full of sleazy, lying scumbags that will do whatever they can to get power.

You said that is why the Democrats keep losing, but you do remember that Obama fella for 8 years, right? Additionally, over the last 14 years, the Democrats have had control of the Senate for 8 of those, and control of Congress for 6 of those, so that's pretty well balanced.

Are you sure? My memory is bad but I thought the GOP controlled Congress since then.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 10/07/19, 12:08 pm

kingstonlake wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Both parties are full of sleazy, lying scumbags that will do whatever they can to get power.

You said that is why the Democrats keep losing, but you do remember that Obama fella for 8 years, right? Additionally, over the last 14 years, the Democrats have had control of the Senate for 8 of those, and control of Congress for 6 of those, so that's pretty well balanced.

Are you sure? My memory is bad but I thought the GOP controlled Congress since then.
I'm not real smart.. so I could be reading it wrong, but according to the mainstream media link below, Democrats have controlled the House for 3 of 13 legislative sessions (including the current one) since 1995.

Caution: Mainstream Media Link
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 10/07/19, 12:31 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Are you sure? My memory is bad but I thought the GOP controlled Congress since then.
I'm not real smart.. so I could be reading it wrong, but according to the mainstream media link below, Democrats have controlled the House for 3 of 13 legislative sessions (including the current one) since 1995.

Caution: Mainstream Media Link
Yes, but 3 of the last 7 sessions (i.e., the 6 of 14 years that I mentioned).  And 8 of the last 14 years of the Senate (4 of the last 7 two-year sessions).

And just to clarify/correct my post on that, when I said that Democrats controlled Congress for 6 of the last 14 years, I meant the House.

The chart in Bob's link gives a good visual representation.  Go back 14 years, it's even.  Go back 26 years, it's more Republican.  Go back 40 years, it's more Democrat.  Go back 60 years, it's even more Democrat.

I like to look at it compared to that line in the middle (party in the White House).  From 1995-2021, only 10 years had both parts of Congress opposite the President.  8 more had at least one different.  I guess 18 out of 26 years with some opposition isn't awful, but need to do better getting both houses of Congress opposite whichever party is in the White House.  Vote Gridlock!
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 10/07/19, 12:36 pm

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I'm not real smart.. so I could be reading it wrong, but according to the mainstream media link below, Democrats have controlled the House for 3 of 13 legislative sessions (including the current one) since 1995.

Caution: Mainstream Media Link
Yes, but 3 of the last 7 sessions (i.e., the 6 of 14 years that I mentioned).  And 8 of the last 14 years of the Senate (4 of the last 7 two-year sessions).

And just to clarify/correct my post on that, when I said that Democrats controlled Congress for 6 of the last 14 years, I meant the House.

The chart in Bob's link gives a good visual representation.  Go back 14 years, it's even.  Go back 26 years, it's more Republican.  Go back 40 years, it's more Democrat.  Go back 60 years, it's even more Democrat.

I like to look at it compared to that line in the middle (party in the White House).  From 1995-2021, only 10 years had both parts of Congress opposite the President.  8 more had at least one different.  I guess 18 out of 26 years with some opposition isn't awful, but need to do better getting both houses of Congress opposite whichever party is in the White House.  Vote Gridlock!
I'm down with gridlock.

(unless you have a bunch of limp-wristed democrats who refuse to participate in gridlock).

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Post by kingstonlake on 10/07/19, 12:37 pm

Thanks Miami. Sadly, with the climate today, we've seen how damaging a GOP oval office GOP house and GOP Senate can destroy a country in two years if they're hell bent on it.
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Post by steveschneider on 10/07/19, 12:52 pm

Dems are a bunch of wimps voters turned out to give them the house in 2018 and they won't impeach. Come on you wimps.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 10/07/19, 12:58 pm

steveschneider wrote:Dems are a bunch of wimps voters turned out to give them the house in 2018 and they won't impeach. Come on you wimps.
I keep hoping that Pelosi is just making sure all 'i's" are dotted and "t's" are crossed before she commits to impeachment proceedings.

but, yeah, if they don't begin impeachment proceedings within the next 12 months or so, I'm not voting for  my Democrat incumbent in 2020. I won't vote for a hate-filled knuckle-draggin' racist jesus-freak republican, of course.. but I'll just leave that spot blank.
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Post by steveschneider on 10/07/19, 01:13 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
steveschneider wrote:Dems are a bunch of wimps voters turned out to give them the house in 2018 and they won't impeach. Come on you wimps.
I keep hoping that Pelosi is just making sure all 'i's" are dotted and "t's" are crossed before she commits to impeachment proceedings.

but, yeah, if they don't begin impeachment proceedings within the next 12 months or so, I'm not voting for  my Democrat incumbent in 2020. I won't vote for a hate-filled knuckle-draggin' racist jesus-freak republican, of course.. but I'll just leave that spot blank.

I don't get what the hold up is. Of course the senate won't vote for it but come on. Alan Lichtman who has one of the most accurate prediction models for predicting the winner of the general election. He argues that impeaching Trump would be one of the keys that would help a dem win in 2020.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 10/07/19, 01:21 pm

steveschneider wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I keep hoping that Pelosi is just making sure all 'i's" are dotted and "t's" are crossed before she commits to impeachment proceedings.

but, yeah, if they don't begin impeachment proceedings within the next 12 months or so, I'm not voting for  my Democrat incumbent in 2020. I won't vote for a hate-filled knuckle-draggin' racist jesus-freak republican, of course.. but I'll just leave that spot blank.

I don't get what the hold up is. Of course the senate won't vote for it but come on. Alan Lichtman who has one of the most accurate prediction models for predicting the winner of the general election. He argues that impeaching Trump would be one of the keys that would help a dem win in 2020.
Pelosi, for whatever reason, is afraid of what the mainstream media will say.

yeah, impeachment will embolden the knuckle-draggin' racists MAGA deplorables. But, guess what.. they're going to vote for the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator anyway. You really think Cletus "Crawdaddy" Wobbleflesh, president of the local chapter of NASCAR Viewers of Middle Arkansas, is gonna vote for Elizabeth Warren?

what Pelosi is risking is alienating the Blue Wave that flipped 41 seats in November of '18.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 10/07/19, 01:27 pm

steveschneider wrote:Dems are a bunch of wimps voters turned out to give them the house in 2018 and they won't impeach. Come on you wimps.
With 0.0000000001% chance of getting anywhere near the 2/3 majority in the Senate to have him removed from office if impeached, is there really a point? Yeah, it makes a statement, and it might be a challenge for a president to campaign after being impeached, but impeachment without removal from office can kind of end up looking like an indictment with a not-guilty verdict in a trial. And that will just add substance to his claims of a witch hunt. I don't know. I think that's what the Dems have to research and study, whether or not it would actually hurt them or not.

I'd like to see the impeach so that he has that hanging over his head. But I could see where it might swing other neutrals against the Dems if the Senate finds him "innocent" (of course, that's not what it would mean, but it could get played that way).
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 10/07/19, 01:42 pm

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:Dems are a bunch of wimps voters turned out to give them the house in 2018 and they won't impeach. Come on you wimps.
With 0.0000000001% chance of getting anywhere near the 2/3 majority in the Senate to have him removed from office if impeached, is there really a point?  Yeah, it makes a statement, and it might be a challenge for a president to campaign after being impeached, but impeachment without removal from office can kind of end up looking like an indictment with a not-guilty verdict in a trial.  And that will just add substance to his claims of a witch hunt.  I don't know.  I think that's what the Dems have to research and study, whether or not it would actually hurt them or not.  

I'd like to see the impeach so that he has that hanging over his head.  But I could see where it might swing other neutrals against the Dems if the Senate finds him "innocent" (of course, that's not what it would mean, but it could get played that way).  
as I mentioned, I think the real risk for Democrats is appearing complacent with his criminality and corruption by not impeaching.

Mueller was never going to take action. Republicans investigating Republicans? Mueller was never coming to save America.  So this is the Democrat's opportunity. Their failure to act will likely alienate what should be a very mobilized and energized base.

but, again, just my opinion. I don't know much about anything (except good music).
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Post by AvgMSUJoe on 10/07/19, 02:10 pm

Well, there was exactly 1 moral republican capable of independent thought and they ran him out of the party... McConnell is satan incarnate... so, yeah. I get the why bother camp? (plus it passes, he's ejected... President Pence would be worse... well maybe not worse but definitely not better.)

I think the one reason PRO-IMPEACH is to force these issues into the consciousness of the idiots.

There was a news clip of a little old lady idiot at Amash's town hall that stated she had no idea all of the obstruction stuff happened or the obvious russian connections to the campaign. (head in the sand "republican")

Having televised hearings detailing all of this shit, whether McConnell allowed a vote or not, would make the facts brutally obvious to even the average fox news viewer.
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Post by Cameron on 10/07/19, 02:19 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
steveschneider wrote:Dems are a bunch of wimps voters turned out to give them the house in 2018 and they won't impeach. Come on you wimps.
I keep hoping that Pelosi is just making sure all 'i's" are dotted and "t's" are crossed before she commits to impeachment proceedings.

but, yeah, if they don't begin impeachment proceedings within the next 12 months or so, I'm not voting for  my Democrat incumbent in 2020. I won't vote for a hate-filled knuckle-draggin' racist jesus-freak republican, of course.. but I'll just leave that spot blank.

I've toyed with the idea of taking a no-names approach to voting, wherein I refuse to vote for anyone whose name I recognize. Incumbency is poison, in many ways. I feel like we can largely blame name recognition for the continued influence of McConnell, Pelosi, Schumer, et al. (though to blame ONLY name recognition would be foolishly reductive, but still) But then I consider how many chuckleheads there are out there running for office that would do/try some crazy shit if given the chance, and voting exclusively for wildcards would definitely increase the odds of inadvertently voting for a lunatic.

Rock and a hard place, I guess.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 10/07/19, 02:22 pm

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Well, there was exactly 1 moral republican capable of independent thought and they ran him out of the party... McConnell is satan incarnate... so, yeah. I get the why bother camp? (plus it passes, he's ejected... President Pence would be worse... well maybe not worse but definitely not better.)

I think the one reason PRO-IMPEACH is to force these issues into the consciousness of the idiots.

There was a news clip of a little old lady idiot at Amash's town hall that stated she had no idea all of the obstruction stuff happened or the obvious russian connections to the campaign. (head in the sand "republican")

Having televised hearings detailing all of this shit, whether McConnell allowed a vote or not, would make the facts brutally obvious to even the average fox news viewer.
I do agree that public, televised hearings would reflect well on Democrats during the House proceedings. It would be questions/answers/obfuscation without going through the mainstream media filter.

however, that theory is also predicated on Americans actually watching and paying attention. We live in a pretty stupid country so I'm not convinced that anyone willing to watch would be impacted by what they see/hear.
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Post by steveschneider on 10/07/19, 02:22 pm

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:Dems are a bunch of wimps voters turned out to give them the house in 2018 and they won't impeach. Come on you wimps.
With 0.0000000001% chance of getting anywhere near the 2/3 majority in the Senate to have him removed from office if impeached, is there really a point? Yeah, it makes a statement, and it might be a challenge for a president to campaign after being impeached, but impeachment without removal from office can kind of end up looking like an indictment with a not-guilty verdict in a trial. And that will just add substance to his claims of a witch hunt. I don't know. I think that's what the Dems have to research and study, whether or not it would actually hurt them or not.

I'd like to see the impeach so that he has that hanging over his head. But I could see where it might swing other neutrals against the Dems if the Senate finds him "innocent" (of course, that's not what it would mean, but it could get played that way).

I get it but this guy has done whatever the f he's wanted and some of us would like to see some accountability. Also, I agree with Lichtman an impeachment wold be a key to help the Dems. Most incumbents with a scandal it hurts them. This guy has been a master of distraction but I don't think he could distract his way out of the house impeaching him.

Also worse case scenario Trump doesn't get impeached and he wins 2020. Then what?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 10/07/19, 02:23 pm

Cameron wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I keep hoping that Pelosi is just making sure all 'i's" are dotted and "t's" are crossed before she commits to impeachment proceedings.

but, yeah, if they don't begin impeachment proceedings within the next 12 months or so, I'm not voting for  my Democrat incumbent in 2020. I won't vote for a hate-filled knuckle-draggin' racist jesus-freak republican, of course.. but I'll just leave that spot blank.

I've toyed with the idea of taking a no-names approach to voting, wherein I refuse to vote for anyone whose name I recognize. Incumbency is poison, in many ways. I feel like we can largely blame name recognition for the continued influence of McConnell, Pelosi, Schumer, et al. (though to blame ONLY name recognition would be foolishly reductive, but still) But then I consider how many chuckleheads there are out there running for office that would do/try some crazy shit if given the chance, and voting exclusively for wildcards would definitely increase the odds of inadvertently voting for a lunatic.

Rock and a hard place, I guess.
I hear ya. It gives credence to term limits, but I'm not (in theory) a big fan of term limits, either. But they do make sense in this regard.

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Post by MiamiSpartan on 10/07/19, 04:04 pm

steveschneider wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
With 0.0000000001% chance of getting anywhere near the 2/3 majority in the Senate to have him removed from office if impeached, is there really a point? Yeah, it makes a statement, and it might be a challenge for a president to campaign after being impeached, but impeachment without removal from office can kind of end up looking like an indictment with a not-guilty verdict in a trial. And that will just add substance to his claims of a witch hunt. I don't know. I think that's what the Dems have to research and study, whether or not it would actually hurt them or not.

I'd like to see the impeach so that he has that hanging over his head. But I could see where it might swing other neutrals against the Dems if the Senate finds him "innocent" (of course, that's not what it would mean, but it could get played that way).

I get it but this guy has done whatever the f he's wanted and some of us would like to see some accountability. Also, I agree with Lichtman an impeachment wold be a key to help the Dems. Most incumbents with a scandal it hurts them. This guy has been a master of distraction but I don't think he could distract his way out of the house impeaching him.

Also worse case scenario Trump doesn't get impeached and he wins 2020. Then what?
While that plays well with Dems, the thirst for blood that you have may not play as well with the 45-50% of the country in the middle that will actually decide the election. They can't just go for blood and damn the consequences. Worst case is not Trump winning. Worst case is Trump winning AND taking back the House on his coattails.
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Post by Cameron on 10/07/19, 04:09 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Cameron wrote:

I've toyed with the idea of taking a no-names approach to voting, wherein I refuse to vote for anyone whose name I recognize. Incumbency is poison, in many ways. I feel like we can largely blame name recognition for the continued influence of McConnell, Pelosi, Schumer, et al. (though to blame ONLY name recognition would be foolishly reductive, but still) But then I consider how many chuckleheads there are out there running for office that would do/try some crazy shit if given the chance, and voting exclusively for wildcards would definitely increase the odds of inadvertently voting for a lunatic.

Rock and a hard place, I guess.
I hear ya. It gives credence to term limits, but I'm not (in theory) a big fan of term limits, either. But they do make sense in this regard.


I mostly agree about not being a fan of term limits, but the prospect of infinite Mitch McConnell may be enough incentive to get me to reconsider.
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 13/07/19, 06:31 pm

You know to see how important it is to show up and vote, this is it right here.

[tw]1149816715955458048[/tw]
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Post by steveschneider on 15/07/19, 08:10 am

Floyd Robertson wrote:You know to see how important it is to show up and vote, this is it right here.

[tw]1149816715955458048[/tw]

Incredible. More people need to figure out the election calendar at their board of elections and get out there and vote. The local ones are so easy to vote at. Hardly any one shows up. We drive a few miles and are in and out.
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Post by steveschneider on 16/07/19, 07:33 am

[tw]1150888279358746625[/tw]
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Post by steveschneider on 18/07/19, 09:09 am

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Post by Cameron on 18/07/19, 09:26 am


Not surprising really. The democrat establishment loves shitty moderates like Biden.
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