2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-19, 09:33

kingstonlake wrote:The Alcantara kid puzzles me. Who gives a damn about another slick Fielding middle infielder with good glove and no stick. MLB is littered with them. There wasn't a project with some upside available? A pitcher with a big arm, a kid with a big bat?

I'm willing to give Avila some slack. He was the one credited with pushing for JD and others. Maybe he sees something other scouts don't?

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-07-19, 09:33

kingstonlake wrote:The Alcantara kid puzzles me. Who gives a damn about another slick Fielding middle infielder with good glove and no stick. MLB is littered with them. There wasn't a project with some upside available? A pitcher with a big arm, a kid with a big bat?

I'm sure all those kinds of players were available but no team was willing to give any of them up for JD Martinez.  

The players on the Tiger roster other MLB want are the same players the Tigers need to keep.  So far no one wants Verlander and the last 2 years of his $28M per contract.  Avila's voice mail isn't full of teams wanting Cabrera and the $150M left on his contract.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by steveschneider on 2017-07-19, 10:34

LooseGoose wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:The Alcantara kid puzzles me. Who gives a damn about another slick Fielding middle infielder with good glove and no stick. MLB is littered with them. There wasn't a project with some upside available? A pitcher with a big arm, a kid with a big bat?

I'm willing to give Avila some slack.   He was the one credited with pushing for JD and others.   Maybe he sees something other scouts don't?

I am too, from all that I've read there were very few teams shopping for a player like JD Martinez. We wait longer and it's possible more teams start to dump players creating even more inventory for a position that isn't in high demand. Lynne Henning seemed to suggest in his article that Avilla believed this was the right point to part ways and this was the best we could do based on demand and where JD's contract is at right now.

Regarding the prospects, going off the scouting report seems like these players hit for contact, they are young, they are inexpensive and they have speed (especially King). These are all things this team desperately needs and according to scouts they should develop into everyday players. Lets hope that's the case.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-19, 10:38

steveschneider wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

I'm willing to give Avila some slack.   He was the one credited with pushing for JD and others.   Maybe he sees something other scouts don't?

I am too, from all that I've read there were very few teams shopping for a player like JD Martinez. We wait longer and it's possible more teams start to dump players creating even more inventory for a position that isn't in high demand. Lynne Henning seemed to suggest in his article that Avilla believed this was the right point to part ways and this was the best we could do based on demand and where JD's contract is at right now.

Regarding the prospects, going off the scouting report seems like these players hit for contact, they are young, they are inexpensive and they have speed (especially King). These are all things this team desperately needs and according to scouts they should develop into everyday players. Lets hope that's the case.

I know I mentioned this earlier but I keep going back to Robbie Ray for Fister.....Dombrowski/Avila got roasted for that trade and 3 years later Ray is one of the best pitchers in baseball with exponentially more value than Fister. It's probably the inherent optimist in me.


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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by steveschneider on 2017-07-19, 10:57

LooseGoose wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I am too, from all that I've read there were very few teams shopping for a player like JD Martinez. We wait longer and it's possible more teams start to dump players creating even more inventory for a position that isn't in high demand. Lynne Henning seemed to suggest in his article that Avilla believed this was the right point to part ways and this was the best we could do based on demand and where JD's contract is at right now.

Regarding the prospects, going off the scouting report seems like these players hit for contact, they are young, they are inexpensive and they have speed (especially King). These are all things this team desperately needs and according to scouts they should develop into everyday players. Lets hope that's the case.

I know I mentioned this earlier but I keep going back to Robbie Ray for Fister.....Dombrowski/Avila got roasted for that trade and 3 years later Ray is one of the best pitchers in baseball with exponentially more value than Fister. It's probably the inherent optimist in me.


That's another good point, none of us will really know if this is a good trade for another couple of years. At this point all we can do is root for these guys to develop into good pros. If King ends up on the roster and becomes an amazing base stealing threat and a lock to score from 2nd off a good hit single out field I think we are all going to be happy. This is the type of talent that is better suited for our park.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by kingstonlake on 2017-07-19, 11:02

LooseGoose wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I am too, from all that I've read there were very few teams shopping for a player like JD Martinez. We wait longer and it's possible more teams start to dump players creating even more inventory for a position that isn't in high demand. Lynne Henning seemed to suggest in his article that Avilla believed this was the right point to part ways and this was the best we could do based on demand and where JD's contract is at right now.

Regarding the prospects, going off the scouting report seems like these players hit for contact, they are young, they are inexpensive and they have speed (especially King). These are all things this team desperately needs and according to scouts they should develop into everyday players. Lets hope that's the case.

I know I mentioned this earlier but I keep going back to Robbie Ray for Fister.....Dombrowski/Avila got roasted for that trade and 3 years later Ray is one of the best pitchers in baseball with exponentially more value than Fister. It's probably the inherent optimist in me.


Ray has had a good 3 1/2 months in his four year career. I don't think that translates to being one of the best in baseball. He's 9-4 this year. The previous three seasons he's lost twice as many games as he's won. I'm gonna take a wait and see approach with him.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by steveschneider on 2017-07-19, 11:07

kingstonlake wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

I know I mentioned this earlier but I keep going back to Robbie Ray for Fister.....Dombrowski/Avila got roasted for that trade and 3 years later Ray is one of the best pitchers in baseball with exponentially more value than Fister. It's probably the inherent optimist in me.


Ray has had a good 3 1/2 months in his four year career. I don't think that translates to being one of the best in baseball. He's 9-4 this year. The previous three seasons he's lost twice as many games as he's won. I'm gonna take a wait and see approach with him.

Robbie Ray is only 25 and showing a lot of upside at this point. Looking at his last 3 starts he's put up some good numbers (gave up only 1 run vs the Dodgers) and he has a 2.97 era for the season.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by kingstonlake on 2017-07-19, 11:10

steveschneider wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Ray has had a good 3 1/2 months in his four year career. I don't think that translates to being one of the best in baseball. He's 9-4 this year. The previous three seasons he's lost twice as many games as he's won. I'm gonna take a wait and see approach with him.

Robbie Ray is only 25 and showing a lot of upside at this point. Looking at his last 3 starts he's put up some good numbers (gave up only 1 run vs the Dodgers) and he has a 2.97 era for the season.

He's been very solid so far this year. This year....
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by Floyd Robertson on 2017-07-19, 11:22

Jon Morosi‏Verified account @jonmorosi 1m1 minute ago

#Indians were only other team seriously involved in J.D. Martinez pursuit this week, source said. Certainly influenced #Tigers return. @MLB
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-19, 12:03

kingstonlake wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

I know I mentioned this earlier but I keep going back to Robbie Ray for Fister.....Dombrowski/Avila got roasted for that trade and 3 years later Ray is one of the best pitchers in baseball with exponentially more value than Fister. It's probably the inherent optimist in me.


Ray has had a good 3 1/2 months in his four year career. I don't think that translates to being one of the best in baseball. He's 9-4 this year. The previous three seasons he's lost twice as many games as he's won. I'm gonna take a wait and see approach with him.

You're not going to count 2015 when he had an ERA+ of 117? He's now developed into a 200 inning horse at age 25 with an ERA+ of 157. Granted last year he was down a bit but still threw 174 innings with a 90ERA+ which was STILL better than Fister did. I would trade any pitcher on our roster for him except Fulmer.


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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-19, 12:03

Floyd Robertson wrote: Jon Morosi‏Verified account @jonmorosi 1m1 minute ago

#Indians were only other team seriously involved in J.D. Martinez pursuit this week, source said. Certainly influenced #Tigers return. @MLB

Better Arizona than Cleveland.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by kingstonlake on 2017-07-19, 12:16

LooseGoose wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Ray has had a good 3 1/2 months in his four year career. I don't think that translates to being one of the best in baseball. He's 9-4 this year. The previous three seasons he's lost twice as many games as he's won. I'm gonna take a wait and see approach with him.

You're not going to count 2015 when he had an ERA+ of 117? He's now developed into a 200 inning horse at age 25 with an ERA+ of 157. Granted last year he was down a bit but still threw 174 innings with a 90ERA+ which was STILL better than Fister did. I would trade any pitcher on our roster for him except Fulmer.


I'm not comparing him to Fister. I'm just not ready to pull the trigger on one of the best pitchers in baseball. Yet. If he finishes the year as strong as he started it then we can talk at the all Star break next year and re-evaluate.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-07-19, 13:48

I'm still trying to get over the pain of losing Smoltz for Alexander. I'll never forgive you for what you did to us, Bill Lajoie! Never!


And you fuckers can take that "but he won us seven games" line and stuff it in a sock!

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-19, 13:54

tGreenWay wrote:I'm still trying to get over the pain of losing Smoltz for Alexander. I'll never forgive you for what you did to us, Bill Lajoie! Never!


And you fuckers can take that "but he won us seven games" line and stuff it in a sock!

Nine games.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by aualum06 on 2017-07-19, 14:19

tGreenWay wrote:I'm still trying to get over the pain of losing Smoltz for Alexander. I'll never forgive you for what you did to us, Bill Lajoie! Never!


And you fuckers can take that "but he won us seven games" line and stuff it in a sock!

Smoltz would have never made it in Detroit
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by steveschneider on 2017-07-19, 14:50

At this point I think the odds of trading Verlander are pretty low unless they are looking to dump salary.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-19, 15:05

Henning still insisting that Fulmer will be traded.....I hope he's wrong.

Henning: Martinez trade a sign of Tigers moves to come


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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by aualum06 on 2017-07-19, 15:19

LooseGoose wrote:Henning still insisting that Fulmer will be traded.....I hope he's wrong.

Henning: Martinez trade a sign of Tigers moves to come


Unless they return a major league star for him you don't trade him for just prospects
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by kingstonlake on 2017-07-19, 15:47

aualum06 wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Henning still insisting that Fulmer will be traded.....I hope he's wrong.

Henning: Martinez trade a sign of Tigers moves to come


Unless they return a major league star for him you don't trade him for just prospects

What good is a star pitcher on a rebuilding team? If you can get top level prospects for him do it. If they're ready to seriously contend in five years you'll have a ton of salary to play with. You're gonna risk having a really bad contract on your hands in five years (Verlander anyone?)
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by steveschneider on 2017-07-19, 15:48

LooseGoose wrote:Henning still insisting that Fulmer will be traded.....I hope he's wrong.

Henning: Martinez trade a sign of Tigers moves to come


Hmm, going off the type of return he's sees them getting for Fulmer seems like they would have sent him off to the Cubs if they were looking to trade him.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-07-19, 15:54

I'm starting to come around. I don't think they're contending in the next 3-4 years anyway and there are no guarantees he's going to continue on his trajectory. If you can get a haul for him, why not.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-07-19, 16:26

LooseGoose wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:I'm still trying to get over the pain of losing Smoltz for Alexander. I'll never forgive you for what you did to us, Bill Lajoie! Never!


And you fuckers can take that "but he won us seven games" line and stuff it in a sock!

Nine games.

Okay, nine. And no pennant.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-07-19, 16:29

aualum06 wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:I'm still trying to get over the pain of losing Smoltz for Alexander. I'll never forgive you for what you did to us, Bill Lajoie! Never!


And you fuckers can take that "but he won us seven games" line and stuff it in a sock!

Smoltz would have never made it in Detroit

Probably true. I don't know if it was Roger Craig or someone else, but promising young pitchers up and down the farm system were assured of arm trouble if they were Tigers' prospects.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-19, 17:14

tGreenWay wrote:
aualum06 wrote:

Smoltz would have never made it in Detroit

Probably true. I don't know if it was Roger Craig or someone else, but promising young pitchers up and down the farm system were assured of arm trouble if they were Tigers' prospects.

I think it was that stupid splitter they were all trying to throw.....you don't see many pitchers using it today.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-07-19, 17:17

LooseGoose wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

Probably true. I don't know if it was Roger Craig or someone else, but promising young pitchers up and down the farm system were assured of arm trouble if they were Tigers' prospects.

I think it was that stupid splitter they were all trying to throw.....you don't see many pitchers using it today.

That would make sense. A Roger Craig favorite.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-20, 11:44


Jon Morosi‏Verified account @jonmorosi 19m19 minutes ago
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Sources: While #Astros are in talks with #Athletics on Sonny Gray, they remain interested in Justin Verlander/Justin Wilson deal w/ Detroit.



Jon Morosi‏Verified account @jonmorosi 12m12 minutes ago
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On #Tigers/#Astros talks, important context: Verlander would need to approve trade, and Detroit likely would have to include cash. @MLB

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-20, 11:56

I think Wilson is worth more than Phelps....and Miami got a big haul for him.
==============

Will Detroit Tigers closer Justin Wilson be the next veteran to get a one-way ticket out of Michigan?

Rumor CentralThe Houston Astros, Milwaukee Brewers and Boston Red Sox are among the teams "showing continued interest" in the 29-year-old left-hander, tweets Jon Morosi of MLB Network. Up to a dozen teams have expressed interest in Wilson, adds Anthony Fenech of the Detroit

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by DWags on 2017-07-20, 12:22

Just to let you guys know, this is the last time I'm opening this thread. When the fire sale is done I'll look at the roster and either cry or throw up. It's out of our hands.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by aualum06 on 2017-07-20, 12:27

LooseGoose wrote:
Jon Morosi‏Verified account @jonmorosi 19m19 minutes ago
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Sources: While #Astros are in talks with #Athletics on Sonny Gray, they remain interested in Justin Verlander/Justin Wilson deal w/ Detroit.



Jon Morosi‏Verified account @jonmorosi 12m12 minutes ago
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On #Tigers/#Astros talks, important context: Verlander would need to approve trade, and Detroit likely would have to include cash. @MLB

Verlander for Sonnie Gray is intriguing. Not sure why the A's would do it but would be a solid 1-2 with Fulmer going forward

Edit: oops completely read that whole post to fast
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by aualum06 on 2017-07-20, 12:36

4 prospects for Phelps?
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by steveschneider on 2017-07-20, 12:39

DWags wrote:Just to let you guys know, this is the last time I'm opening this thread. When the fire sale is done I'll look at the roster and either cry or throw up. It's out of our hands.

You'll be back.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2017-07-20, 13:45

If I were a savvy GM with interest in a C with a solid bat for the playoff run, I'd ask Avila Sr if he had any daughters he could throw in to sweeten the pot.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-20, 15:25

Bob Nightengale‏Verified account @BNightengale 14m14 minutes ago
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The #Tigers next trade chip to fall will be catcher Alex Avila, and no team has expressed stronger interest than the #Cubs. It's perfect fit

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by aualum06 on 2017-07-20, 15:34

LooseGoose wrote:Bob Nightengale‏Verified account @BNightengale 14m14 minutes ago
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The #Tigers next trade chip to fall will be catcher Alex Avila, and no team has expressed stronger interest than the #Cubs. It's perfect fit

Be dumb to not trade him. Just resign him come December and do it all over again next year.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-07-20, 15:45

aualum06 wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Bob Nightengale‏Verified account @BNightengale 14m14 minutes ago
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The #Tigers next trade chip to fall will be catcher Alex Avila, and no team has expressed stronger interest than the #Cubs. It's perfect fit

Be dumb to not trade him. Just resign him come December and do it all over again next year.

All things being equal, I'd rather play for Maddon.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by aualum06 on 2017-07-20, 15:52

tGreenWay wrote:
aualum06 wrote:

Be dumb to not trade him. Just resign him come December and do it all over again next year.

All things being equal, I'd rather play for Maddon.

Not many guys get the family aspect Avila enjoys though
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by tGreenWay on 2017-07-20, 15:57

aualum06 wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

All things being equal, I'd rather play for Maddon.

Not many guys get the family aspect Avila enjoys though

Right. I get that. That's why I said all things being equal. If they weren't, I'd choose to wear the D every time, because they're my team. I can only imagine how cool it would be to play for your dad at the pro level.

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-20, 18:51

Henning: Tigers’ talent auction isn’t primarily about money

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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by steveschneider on 2017-07-20, 19:07

LooseGoose wrote:Henning: Tigers’ talent auction isn’t primarily about money


Lynn has been the best voice of reason through all of this. His articles have been informative and on point.
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Re: 2017 Baseball trade deadline Meltdown thread!

Post by LooseGoose on 2017-07-22, 11:38

Buster Olney‏Verified account @Buster_ESPN 18m18 minutes ago
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The Brewers are digging into the possibility of acquiring Tigers second baseman Ian Kinsler.

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