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Michigan State reviewing request to allow Richard Spencer group to speak on campus

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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 16th 2017, 4:47 pm

Argue it out swill
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Post by GRR Spartan August 16th 2017, 5:18 pm

Travis is going to personally underwrite all the ELP and Public Safety overtime checks all in the name of free speech.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 16th 2017, 5:23 pm

GRR Spartan wrote:Travis is going to personally underwrite all the ELP and Public Safety overtime checks all in the name of free speech.

Huuuuuh? You guys I'm pretty sure gramps over here is suuuuuper confused again.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 16th 2017, 5:25 pm

For the record-

1) I think it would be insane for the university to allow this
2) I think grr is an idiot
3) if they do allow it I think they are inviting a huge shitshow that would be worse than at a place like um where he'd be met by unified opposition because I think msu has more of a Republican presence than other schools.


Last edited by Travis of the Cosmos on August 16th 2017, 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Floyd Robertson August 16th 2017, 5:27 pm

Well-crafted statement, now just deny on grounds of public safety concerns.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 16th 2017, 5:30 pm

Floyd Robertson wrote:Well-crafted statement, now just deny on grounds of public safety concerns.

Yeah, Virginia gave them an easy out. Before that this would have been much much tougher.
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Post by Floyd Robertson August 16th 2017, 5:40 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:Well-crafted statement, now just deny on grounds of public safety concerns.

Yeah, Virginia gave them an easy out. Before that this would have been much much tougher.

Agreed. Nearly impossible to deny before last weekend.
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Post by NigelUno August 16th 2017, 6:07 pm

No.
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Post by Tim Wakefield August 16th 2017, 6:13 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:For the record-

1) I think it would be insane for the university to allow this
2) I think grr is an idiot
3) if they do allow it I think they are inviting a huge shitshow that would be worse than at a place like um where he'd be met by unified opposition because I think msu has more of a Republican presence than other schools.

Outside of the frats, who are basically irrelevant to anyone besides themselves, this isn't true at all
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Post by Turtleneck August 16th 2017, 6:23 pm

Tim Wakefield wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:For the record-

1) I think it would be insane for the university to allow this
2) I think grr is an idiot
3) if they do allow it I think they are inviting a huge shitshow that would be worse than at a place like um where he'd be met by unified opposition because I think msu has more of a Republican presence than other schools.

Outside of the frats, who are basically irrelevant to anyone besides themselves, this isn't true at all

Actually it is true. You should have spent more time in Ag Hall. Generally speaking, as a land grant university the school hosts a broader spectrum of students, including many from rural areas who are more middle-of-the-road to conservative. Especially when compared to the University of Birkenstock in Ann Arbor.
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Post by NigelUno August 16th 2017, 6:26 pm

KKK’s request to burn cross on Stone Mountain denied
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Post by DWags August 16th 2017, 6:42 pm

Floyd Robertson wrote:Well-crafted statement, now just deny on grounds of public safety concerns.

I'm with you. Have a daughter on campus, but that's a fine line we're walking. Tread carefully. The first amendment is first for a reason.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 16th 2017, 6:55 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:

Outside of the frats, who are basically irrelevant to anyone besides themselves, this isn't true at all

Actually it is true. You should have spent more time in Ag Hall. Generally speaking, as a land grant university the school hosts a broader spectrum of students, including many from rural areas who are more middle-of-the-road to conservative. Especially when compared to the University of Birkenstock in Ann Arbor.

Yeah I'm comparing to other universities more than I am to the general population. Wake might not see it as much as he thinks but we worked at different places in college. Him for the caf, me for the house republican campaign committee. I didn't have problems finding people for jobs.
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Post by Floyd Robertson August 16th 2017, 6:56 pm

DWags wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:Well-crafted statement, now just deny on grounds of public safety concerns.

I'm with you. Have a daughter on campus, but that's a fine line we're walking. Tread carefully. The first amendment is first for a reason.

I didn't it when I posted that, but Florida denied the same request this morning on those very grounds.
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Post by GRR Spartan August 16th 2017, 7:25 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:Travis is going to personally underwrite all the ELP and Public Safety overtime checks all in the name of free speech.

Huuuuuh? You guys I'm pretty sure gramps over here is suuuuuper confused again.


Huuuuuh?

Nothing but insults again?  

Just avoid the frat boys who like to march in white golf shirts, khaki's carrying tiki torches.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 16th 2017, 7:33 pm

GRR Spartan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Huuuuuh? You guys I'm pretty sure gramps over here is suuuuuper confused again.


Huuuuuh?

Nothing but insults again? Go back to rehab Travis.

I just have no idea why you'd suggest that I'd support that guy speaking. I just posted a link for open debate. Nothing else. It doesn't fit with anything else I've ever posted. The problem is that you're a dipshit. We generally agree on politics (certainly not on some of your more lunatic ideas) but I think you confused me with Cameron or something. Which is nutso as I've had plenty of disagreements with him in the past.

So as far as my insults.... well, deal with it dipshit because your comment had no basis whatsoever.
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Post by tGreenWay August 16th 2017, 7:34 pm

Tim Wakefield wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:For the record-

1) I think it would be insane for the university to allow this
2) I think grr is an idiot
3) if they do allow it I think they are inviting a huge shitshow that would be worse than at a place like um where he'd be met by unified opposition because I think msu has more of a Republican presence than other schools.

Outside of the frats, who are basically irrelevant to anyone besides themselves, this isn't true at all

Not at all true for the reasons listed by Turtleneck and Travis. In addition, there's the strong CJ program/presence. MSU's history has long been on the Right of center, even if only slightly Right at times. From personal experience, I was the Liberal frat guy living and working with white male GDIs who were all about bombing the fuck out of everybody because America.
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Post by DWags August 16th 2017, 7:59 pm

Floyd Robertson wrote:
DWags wrote:

I'm with you. Have a daughter on campus, but that's a fine line we're walking. Tread carefully. The first amendment is first for a reason.

I didn't it when I posted that, but Florida denied the same request this morning on those very grounds.

I agree with Florida but feel funny agreeing with it. It's weird but we need to let those assholes speak.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 16th 2017, 9:05 pm

DWags wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:

I didn't it when I posted that, but Florida denied the same request this morning on those very grounds.

I agree with Florida but feel funny agreeing with it. It's weird but we need to let those assholes speak.

I dunno man. Let em speak in Ann Arbor. There'll be no conflict because no one will agree with them. They're reaching out to places like Florida or Michigan State because they're looking for that conflict. It's not about their words for them. They're just looking for that shitshow. It gives them all sorts of media attention and presidential approval. So let them go to places where they won't create a 50/50 fight. Let them speak in places where they'll be received so negatively that there isn't anything more than a 10 second story to report.
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Post by GRR Spartan August 16th 2017, 9:08 pm

I was tongue in cheek when I implied Travis could foot the overtime bill.

Just saw 200 people attend a Trump support rally in Howell since Charlottesville and there were at least twice that amount in Diamondale last August.

I have no issue with Spencer or others of his ilk being allowed to speak on campus.  Free speech and all that stuff.

All they need to have included in their deposit is an amount to cover costs MSU/EL/MSP and Lansing law enforcement. MSU estimates will be needed.  The check needs to clear 48 hours prior to the event.  

The contract should make it clear that pre or post speech torch marches and other marches like from campus to the Capitol are prohibited.

We just read EL wants more money because of the costs assoiated with MSU.  
Events like this will only drive up those costs.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 16th 2017, 9:20 pm

GRR Spartan wrote:I was tongue in cheek when I implied Travis could foot the overtime bill.

Just saw 200 people attend a Trump support rally in Howell since Charlottesville and there were at least twice that amount in Diamondale last August.

I have no issue with Spencer or others of his ilk being allowed to speak on campus.  Free speech and all that stuff.

All they need to have included in their deposit is an amount to cover costs MSU/EL/MSP and Lansing law enforcement. MSU estimates will be needed.  The check needs to clear 48 hours prior to the event.  

The contract should make it clear that pre or post speech torch marches and other marches like from campus to the Capitol are prohibited.

We just read EL wants more money because of the costs assoiated with MSU.  
Events like this will only drive up those costs.

Also the murder. Gotta pay for the murder.

Frankly it's just not a good look for the university if it goes south. Lets pro con this.

Pro if they do this-
- Some people look on the school as a bastion for free speech
- hopefully it's not a fuckin disaster

Con if they do this
- it's a fuckin disaster
- the name east lansing is used in a hashtag
- that hashtag results in people having a generally negative view of the place, like #charlottesville
- oh yeah, also someone dies
- enrollment, particularly minority enrollment, drops.

The one thing that really isn't on the list is the cost of the cops. I'm sure they can figure that out. It's minor when compared to the cost of human life and the cost of branding for the university.
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Post by GRR Spartan August 16th 2017, 9:40 pm

Travis , we can agree that's its a bad look for MSU to host.  Its no win.  

I don't like President Trump but he wants to come to MSU we all get to foot the bill because he's the freakin' POTUS.

These guys are ham and eggers.  All hat no cattle.  They wouldn't be able to send a certified check for $100K to cover law enforcement costs and its not censoring them.  Its just business.  We don't see any major political donors lining up to fund them.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher August 16th 2017, 10:49 pm

It is too much of a public safety risk. It is a ticking time bomb in the current political climate. College students aren't smart or mature enough to not give these guys any attention. Protesters and anti-protesters would show up en force and there would almost assuredly be conflict. Simon will follow in UF's footsteps.
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Post by steveschneider August 16th 2017, 11:22 pm

I have a reasonable solution, why not just teleconference in these bozo's and allow them to do their speech, and then have a Q&A via video. Having these fucks show up is a huge public safety risk.
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Post by DWags August 16th 2017, 11:22 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
DWags wrote:

I agree with Florida but feel funny agreeing with it. It's weird but we need to let those assholes speak.

I dunno man. Let em speak in Ann Arbor. There'll be no conflict because no one will agree with them. They're reaching out to places like Florida or Michigan State because they're looking for that conflict. It's not about their words for them. They're just looking for that shitshow. It gives them all sorts of media attention and presidential approval. So let them go to places where they won't create a 50/50 fight. Let them speak in places where they'll be received so negatively that there isn't anything more than a 10 second story to report.

See I completely agree with you, but that's the deal. Let these fuckers speak. Hate it but let them speak.
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Post by steveschneider August 16th 2017, 11:26 pm

DWags wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I dunno man. Let em speak in Ann Arbor. There'll be no conflict because no one will agree with them. They're reaching out to places like Florida or Michigan State because they're looking for that conflict. It's not about their words for them. They're just looking for that shitshow. It gives them all sorts of media attention and presidential approval. So let them go to places where they won't create a 50/50 fight. Let them speak in places where they'll be received so negatively that there isn't anything more than a 10 second story to report.

See I completely agree with you, but that's the deal. Let these fuckers speak. Hate it but let them speak.

I agree. Had a good friend that went to Brandeis and they had Farrakhan speak at their campus.

This is what going to college is all about, having your views challenged.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 16th 2017, 11:27 pm

steveschneider wrote:I have a reasonable solution, why not just teleconference in these bozo's and allow them to do their speech, and then have a Q&A via video. Having these fucks show up is a huge public safety risk.

All they want is the huge safety risk. A teleconference totally makes sense. But their message is secondary. What they want is the shitshow that drags in cameras
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 16th 2017, 11:28 pm

DWags wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I dunno man. Let em speak in Ann Arbor. There'll be no conflict because no one will agree with them. They're reaching out to places like Florida or Michigan State because they're looking for that conflict. It's not about their words for them. They're just looking for that shitshow. It gives them all sorts of media attention and presidential approval. So let them go to places where they won't create a 50/50 fight. Let them speak in places where they'll be received so negatively that there isn't anything more than a 10 second story to report.

See I completely agree with you, but that's the deal. Let these fuckers speak. Hate it but let them speak.

And when some student dies because the counter protest/protest situation got out of hand? What do we do then?
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Post by DWags August 16th 2017, 11:29 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
DWags wrote:

See I completely agree with you, but that's the deal. Let these fuckers speak. Hate it but let them speak.

And when some student dies because the counter protest/protest situation got out of hand? What do we do then?

Well shit, I don't have an answer.
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Post by Cameron August 17th 2017, 1:59 am

DWags wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I dunno man. Let em speak in Ann Arbor. There'll be no conflict because no one will agree with them. They're reaching out to places like Florida or Michigan State because they're looking for that conflict. It's not about their words for them. They're just looking for that shitshow. It gives them all sorts of media attention and presidential approval. So let them go to places where they won't create a 50/50 fight. Let them speak in places where they'll be received so negatively that there isn't anything more than a 10 second story to report.

See I completely agree with you, but that's the deal. Let these fuckers speak. Hate it but let them speak.

Dwags is 100% right. Let them speak. Counter bad speech with better speech. That's always been the way.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
DWags wrote:

See I completely agree with you, but that's the deal. Let these fuckers speak. Hate it but let them speak.

And when some student dies because the counter protest/protest situation got out of hand? What do we do then?

You charge the cocksucker who did it with murder and you put him/her in a cage for the rest of his/her natural born life. Not that complicated.
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Post by Cameron August 17th 2017, 2:02 am

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:


Huuuuuh?

Nothing but insults again? Go back to rehab Travis.

I just have no idea why you'd suggest that I'd support that guy speaking. I just posted a link for open debate. Nothing else. It doesn't fit with anything else I've ever posted. The problem is that you're a dipshit. We generally agree on politics (certainly not on some of your more lunatic ideas) but I think you confused me with Cameron or something. Which is nutso as I've had plenty of disagreements with him in the past.

So as far as my insults.... well, deal with it dipshit because your comment had no basis whatsoever.

Which of us ought to be more offended by that? I'm gonna go ahead and say me, because fuck you.
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Post by NigelUno August 17th 2017, 8:18 am

Cameron wrote:
DWags wrote:

See I completely agree with you, but that's the deal. Let these fuckers speak. Hate it but let them speak.

Dwags is 100% right. Let them speak. Counter bad speech with better speech. That's always been the way.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

And when some student dies because the counter protest/protest situation got out of hand? What do we do then?

You charge the cocksucker who did it with murder and you put him/her in a cage for the rest of his/her natural born life. Not that complicated.

It's also not that complicated to say it's a public safety issue and deny them a permit.

You can't watch any of the Vice (HBO) video from last weekend and not be alarmed by the weaponry (and rage) some of these guys have.

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Post by NigelUno August 17th 2017, 8:18 am

Cameron wrote:
DWags wrote:

See I completely agree with you, but that's the deal. Let these fuckers speak. Hate it but let them speak.

Dwags is 100% right. Let them speak. Counter bad speech with better speech. That's always been the way.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

And when some student dies because the counter protest/protest situation got out of hand? What do we do then?

You charge the cocksucker who did it with murder and you put him/her in a cage for the rest of his/her natural born life. Not that complicated.

It's also not that complicated to say it's a public safety issue and deny them a permit.

You can't watch any of the Vice (HBO) video from last weekend and not be alarmed by the weaponry (and rage) some of these guys have.

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Post by Robert J Sakimano August 17th 2017, 9:34 am

I'm okay with Nazi/white supremacist/supporters of the sexual predator holding their rally as long as they don't murder people or become violent in the way they have before.
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Post by Turtleneck August 17th 2017, 10:09 am

The issue of public safety is real, and probably justifies not allowing him to speak on campus.

I will say this much, not letting him speak, in some twisted way, plays to his long-term fascist agenda. Fascism is about a strong state with absolute powers used to promote and protect national values. When the state exercises control over free speech and decides who can speak and what they can say, it makes him tingle inside. He wants us to slowly accept a more powerful state that offers less freedom in the name of promoting and protecting national values. In some twisted way, we are giving him part of what he wants. It is actually freedom that is the enemy of fascism.


Last edited by Turtleneck on August 17th 2017, 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by steveschneider August 17th 2017, 10:13 am

Turtleneck wrote:The issue of public safety is real, and probably justifies not allowing him to speak on campus.

I will say this much, not letting him speak, in some twisted way, plays to his long-term fascist agenda. Fascism is about a strong state with absolute powers used to promote and protect national values. When the state exercises control over free speech and decides who can speak and what they can say, it makes him tingle inside. He wants us to slowly accept a more powerful state who offers less personal liberty in the name of promoting and protecting national values. In some twisted way, we are giving him part of what he wants. It is actually freedom that is the enemy of fascism.

That's why I think my teleprompter idea is perfect.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher August 17th 2017, 5:03 pm

D-nied.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher August 17th 2017, 5:04 pm

"This decision was made due to significant concerns about public safety in the wake of the tragic violence in Charlottesville last weekend," the statement said. "While we remain firm in our commitment to freedom of expression, our first obligation is to the safety and security of our students and our community."
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Post by Turtleneck August 17th 2017, 5:05 pm

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:D-nied.
 
Michigan State reviewing request to allow Richard Spencer group to speak on campus VHQjvT
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos August 17th 2017, 5:07 pm

Michigan State reviewing request to allow Richard Spencer group to speak on campus Tenor
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