LeBron vs. Jordan

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Is LeBron better than Michael Jordan?

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LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by NigelUno on 2014-06-10, 09:13

Colin Cowherd was discussing this yesterday, and in the interest of fast paced social media/internet/message board timeliness...I am running a poll today.


Last edited by NigelUno on 2014-06-10, 11:11; edited 1 time in total
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Turtleneck on 2014-06-10, 09:17

MJ. No need for a poll.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by NigelUno on 2014-06-10, 09:22

Turtleneck wrote:MJ. No need for a poll.

We have polls. We must use them.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Donjuanmc on 2014-06-10, 09:28

Turtleneck wrote:MJ. No need for a poll.

This. Now lebron vs Kobe might be a debate. I am taking Kobe.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by MasonGuy on 2014-06-10, 09:29

Jordan was the best ever and I have seen them all. LeBron is an incredible talent, one of the best of today but Jordan was the ultimate talent. If you saw him play you wouldn't even ask.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Turtleneck on 2014-06-10, 09:29

NigelUno wrote:

We have polls.  We must use them.

What if somebody has a Czech?
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by MasonGuy on 2014-06-10, 09:33

NigelUno wrote:

We have polls.  We must use them.

Only women should use them. That is a natural law.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by NigelUno on 2014-06-10, 09:48

MasonGuy wrote:Jordan was the best ever and I have seen them all.  LeBron is an incredible talent, one of the best of today but Jordan was the ultimate talent.  If you saw him play you wouldn't even ask.

Is Lebron better at anything? Or is Jordan better at everything?

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Giant Moose on 2014-06-10, 10:03

NigelUno wrote:

Is Lebron better at anything?  Or is Jordan better at everything?

LeBron is better at cramping. Also LeBron is better at gambling I assume because he hasn't had to "retire" yet.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by NigelUno on 2014-06-10, 10:10

Giant Moose wrote:
LeBron is better at cramping. Also LeBron is better at gambling I assume because he hasn't had to "retire" yet.

Was it Pippen that implied Jordan had the cocktail flu (from being up all night drinking/gambling)?

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by sprtnbrn on 2014-06-10, 10:11

Lebron is a better physical specimen and much better defender (maybe all around player). That said out of the two, Jordan was the one you'd never bet against.

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Giant Moose on 2014-06-10, 10:14

sprtnbrn wrote:Lebron is a better physical specimen and much better defender (maybe all around player). That said out of the two, Jordan was the one you'd never bet against.
I wouldn't always bet with Jordan. Might get your father killed.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by NigelUno on 2014-06-10, 10:17

sprtnbrn wrote:Lebron is a better physical specimen and much better defender (maybe all around player). That said out of the two, Jordan was the one you'd never bet against.

One of Cowherd's points was that Jordan gets more love because he won 6 titles (and was 6-0). But, he said look at Magic...won 5 titles and played in 9 NBA Championships (and had to play against Bird and the Celtics...much tougher competition than anyone Jordan ever played).
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by TrueGreenSpartan on 2014-06-10, 10:30

MasonGuy wrote:Jordan was the best ever and I have seen them all.  LeBron is an incredible talent, one of the best of today but Jordan was the ultimate talent.  If you saw him play you wouldn't even ask.

Forgetting the 'comeback' Jordan got better as he got older, and smarter about the game. To the same effect, I think LeBron may still be coming into his own. It will be VERY interesting how LeBron does over the next 5-10 years (10 years may be a stretch) to see how he stacks up against our idealized vision of Jordan.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by MasonGuy on 2014-06-10, 10:30

NigelUno wrote:

Is Lebron better at anything?  Or is Jordan better at everything?


Lebron is a larger physical speciman so I bet he is probably a better rebounder than MJ. I have not looked that up. I guess what sells me everytime on Jordan - his defense was as awesome as his offense. I don't believe anyone did it both ways that well.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Turtleneck on 2014-06-10, 10:48

NigelUno wrote:

One of Cowherd's points was that Jordan gets more love because he won 6 titles (and was 6-0).  But, he said look at Magic...won 5 titles and played in 9 NBA Championships (and had to play against Bird and the Celtics...much tougher competition than anyone Jordan ever played).

Six is a big number when you're talking about championships. While I agree that Magic faced tougher competition, the debate is not about Magic. It's about MJ v. LeBron. I don't see how mentioning Magic somehow improves LeBron's case v. Jordan.

If you want to incorporate Magic into the discussion - make it Michael v. LeBron v. Magic - I think you can make a case for putting Magic #1 among those three.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by NigelUno on 2014-06-10, 10:52

MasonGuy wrote:

Lebron is a larger physical speciman so I bet he is probably a better rebounder than MJ.  I have not looked that up.  I guess what sells me everytime on Jordan - his defense was as awesome as his offense.  I don't believe anyone did it both ways that well.

Lebron was all-NBA 1st team Defense for 5 years in a row (didn't make it this year).
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Rodeo Burger on 2014-06-10, 10:55

I'll wait until Lebron is done playing before making any sweeping declarations.

Jordan was able to change his game as he aged, and still be the best. He started out going down the lane and attacking the rim. Then he became a jump shooter. Then he became one of the best post up players in the league (as a shooting guard, which is worth noting).

Age wise, Lebron won his first title a year before Jordan won his first title. If the Heat win it this year, obviously he'll be a year ahead on completing the first 3 peat as well.

Jordan is an asshole though, so I hope Lebron makes a strong case for himself.

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by NigelUno on 2014-06-10, 10:56

Turtleneck wrote:

Six is a big number when you're talking about championships. While I agree that Magic faced tougher competition, the debate is not about Magic. It's about MJ v. LeBron. I don't see how mentioning Magic somehow improves LeBron's case v. Jordan.

If you want to incorporate Magic into the discussion - make it Michael v. LeBron v. Magic - I think you can make a case for putting Magic #1 among those three.

Cowherd's point was that people cite Jordan's 6 NBA titles as proof that he is better than Lebron. He pointed out why it might be silly to use that as an argument (by comparing that with Magic, and some other players, and mentioning the level of competition), and that Lebron might win 6 (or more) before he is done anyway.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Ass Dan on 2014-06-10, 11:21

Magic was better than either player
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Turtleneck on 2014-06-10, 11:30

NigelUno wrote:

Cowherd's point was that people cite Jordan's 6 NBA titles as proof that he is better than Lebron.  He pointed out why it might be silly to use that as an argument (by comparing that with Magic, and some other players, and mentioning the level of competition), and that Lebron might win 6 (or more) before he is done anyway.

It would make more sense to say that measuring by championships is useless because Robert Horry has seven. Using a guy that has fewer just sets up the argument that MJ is better than the guy with fewer championships.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Rocinante on 2014-06-10, 11:31

James clearly has better physicality than Jordan. He's intimidating to any player on the floor. Jordan was not, which is why Jordan's jump shot was money. James has developed a jump shot, but if I'm trying to get him out of his comfort zone, the mid-range to long range jumper is still what I want to have him shooting. Also, in Miami, James has some of the best role-players in the league, some of whom would be stars on other teams. Once Jordan got basically one other guy (Pippen) he was unstoppable. I used to think Kobe was that when he and Shaq played together, but his overall trends have not been as striking as Jordan. Physically, at his peak, Kobe was the most LIKE Jordan in his day, people forget he would take over a game and it didn't matter what you tried to do to him.

Ultimately, If were talking about physical peaks, It's hard to compare because James is so much bigger and stronger, but I still think Jordan.

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Turtleneck on 2014-06-10, 11:37

Rocinante wrote:James clearly has better physicality than Jordan. He's intimidating to any player on the floor.  Jordan was not, which is why Jordan's jump shot was money.

Completely disagree. While not physically imposing, Jordan intimidated players because of his talent combined with relentless effort. Jordan did not want to simply win, he wanted to win and rip your heart out at the same time. James is clearly a beast, but when it comes to killer instinct, he is perceived as soft.

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Rocinante on 2014-06-10, 11:41

Turtleneck wrote:

Completely disagree. While not physically imposing, Jordan intimidated players because of his talent combined with relentless effort. Jordan did not want to simply win, he wanted to win and rip your heart out at the same time. James is clearly a beast, but when it comes to killer instinct, he is perceived as soft.


Maybe by you, but he can post up with many centers. Jordan could not.

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by CORNER BLITZ on 2014-06-10, 11:45

Rocinante wrote:James clearly has better physicality than Jordan. He's intimidating to any player on the floor.  Jordan was not, which is why Jordan's jump shot was money.  James has developed a jump shot, but if I'm trying to get him out of his comfort zone, the mid-range to long range jumper is still what I want to have him shooting.  Also, in Miami, James has some of the best role-players in the league, some of whom would be stars on other teams.  Once Jordan got basically one other guy (Pippen) he was unstoppable.  I used to think Kobe was that when he and Shaq played together, but his overall trends have not been as striking as Jordan.  Physically, at his peak, Kobe was the most LIKE Jordan in his day, people forget he would take over a game and it didn't matter what you tried to do to him.

Ultimately, If were talking about physical peaks, It's hard to compare because James is so much bigger and stronger, but I still think Jordan.

James is larger and stronger, but not more physical

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by NigelUno on 2014-06-10, 11:47

Turtleneck wrote:

It would make more sense to say that measuring by championships is useless because Robert Horry has seven. Using a guy that has fewer just sets up the argument that MJ is better than the guy with fewer championships.

Some people argue that Jordan is better because he won 6 championships. Cowherd was discounting that thought process, by saying he was more impressed that Magic went to 9 Finals against better competition. He was saying you can't use it as a measure of Jordan vs. Magic, nor Jordan vs. Lebron.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Rocinante on 2014-06-10, 11:48

CORNER BLITZ wrote:

James is larger and stronger, but not more physical


okay.

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Spartan Punk on 2014-06-10, 11:54

CORNER BLITZ wrote:

James is larger and stronger, but not more physical


Jordan was more athletic, but not more physical.

Jordan was the better individual player, James is the better team player. As of today, I'd take Jordan, but LeBron's got some years left.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Herbie Green on 2014-06-10, 12:12

MasonGuy wrote:Jordan was the best ever and I have seen them all. LeBron is an incredible talent, one of the best of today but Jordan was the ultimate talent. If you saw him play you wouldn't even ask.

Not true. I saw him play and I ask. A few more titles and I won't be asking but I will be telling.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Stan Sitwell on 2014-06-10, 12:13

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kobe
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Punisher98 on 2014-06-10, 12:14

I am a Bulls fan and I think LeBron will end up being a better all around player. People want to disagree and that's fine, but he is bigger, faster and stronger than MJ was.

People used to say that LBJ needed rings to start being in the conversation. This should be his third title, and don't give me that he was a quitter on Cleveland because Jordan wouldn't have won rings with Mo Williams and Drew Gooden either.

Just my opinion, but I'd take LeBron's passing, defense, rebounding and overall athletic ability over MJ. MJ still has scoring and shooting in his corner.

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by steveschneider on 2014-06-10, 12:14

I'd take Larry Bird over Lebron.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Punisher98 on 2014-06-10, 12:15

Donjuanmc wrote:

This. Now lebron vs Kobe might be a debate. I am taking Kobe.

  Not a chance in hell!
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Punisher98 on 2014-06-10, 12:16

steveschneider wrote:I'd take Larry Bird over Lebron.

Then you would be out of a job as a GM very quickly.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Rocinante on 2014-06-10, 12:16

steveschneider wrote:I'd take Larry Bird over Lebron.



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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Punisher98 on 2014-06-10, 12:18

MasonGuy wrote:

Lebron is a larger physical speciman so I bet he is probably a better rebounder than MJ.  I have not looked that up.  I guess what sells me everytime on Jordan - his defense was as awesome as his offense.  I don't believe anyone did it both ways that well.

LeBron is a much better defender and rebounder than MJ.

LeBron is so fast that he was able to guard (and shut down) Derrick Rose in the ECF a few years ago. He can guard a center in the paint or a point guard at the top of the key.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by steveschneider on 2014-06-10, 12:19

Punisher98 wrote:

Then you would be out of a job as a GM very quickly.

Lebron is a pussy. Bird would take him to school
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Turtleneck on 2014-06-10, 12:24

NigelUno wrote:

Some people argue that Jordan is better because he won 6 championships.  Cowherd was discounting that thought process, by saying he was more impressed that Magic went to 9 Finals against better competition.  He was saying you can't use it as a measure of Jordan vs. Magic, nor Jordan vs. Lebron.

I know exactly what he was saying. I agree that Magic's run is more impressive. Bit I just don't like how he went about making his case that championships are a good measure.
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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Punisher98 on 2014-06-10, 12:27

steveschneider wrote:

Lebron is a pussy. Bird would take him to school

Yeah sure.

In about 50 less games Lebron has more points, blocks and assists than Bird did in his entire career. Steals will be close, Bird a slight edge in rebounds.

Lebron will have as many titles as Bird after he wins this year (3 to 3) and already has more MVP (4 to 3)

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Re: LeBron vs. Jordan

Post by Turtleneck on 2014-06-10, 12:30

Rocinante wrote:

Maybe by you, but he can post up with many centers.  Jordan could not.  

You're defining intimidation based solely on size. That means you find Brady Hoke more intimidating than Mark Dantonio. At the same time, your response does not discount Jordan being more intimidating to opponents than James.
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