Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

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Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by DWags on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:03

Long article, worth the read.  As a side note, I knew/know Tom Rashid of the MHSAA and Fusco the AD at Dakota.  They were close, and they came from the catholic league in Detroit.  I had no big opinion about this, I figured the kid was talked into going to Clarckston. I didn't really care.   Good coach, good program, but If Rashid said what he said about this and Fusco said to the parents what he said, wow, the law suit will have merit in my opinion.   Dealing with them about Baseball tournaments in early April between Catholic schools and public schools was a bitch and we never got to have any 4-3 tournaments if a catholic schools were in them.   Always had to be 3-2 ball.   If they didn't get it that way, they weren't coming.  It was crazy.  Them and a guy named George Sahadi and also Vic Michaels.   I really do think there was some collusion between Rashid at the MHSAA and Dakota h.s. in denying this kid the chance to play this year.  

Rashid Fusco Michaels. I've had dealings with them back in the day. Didn't realize they were all up in this

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by steveschneider on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:14

I'm sure it's a great article but it's a little too long for my level of interest on the topic. I read the article this weekend in the freep and I still think it's shameful. Who gives a fuck if a kid wants to transfer to another school to play sports. I don't see anything wrong with it, and it's a great lesson for the kids.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:15

I've only read the first 2-3 paragraphs so far and Hondo has said at least 3-4 times that he dislikes transfers.

okay.. back to reading..

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by steveschneider on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:17

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I've only read the first 2-3 paragraphs so far and Hondo has said at least 3-4 times that he dislikes transfers.

okay.. back to reading..


I read that too, and I disagree with the author on that point right there.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:17

honest to god, from the first 7 sentences of the article..

For the record let me make it very clear that I hate transferring.

Head Coach Tom Izzo (who shares my disdain for transfers)

everyone involved doesn't like transfers

While I have great disdain for transferring



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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by DWags on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:17

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I've only read the first 2-3 paragraphs so far and Hondo has said at least 3-4 times that he dislikes transfers.

okay.. back to reading..



O.K., I didn't say it was well written.  I mean he tells you what he's going to write about further in the story.  Seriously.  He says "I'll write about that later.  Instead of just doing it.  However, it's the first I actually put together Rashid/Fusco.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:18

DWags wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:I've only read the first 2-3 paragraphs so far and Hondo has said at least 3-4 times that he dislikes transfers.

okay.. back to reading..



O.K., I didn't say it was well written.  I mean he tells you what he's going to write about further in the story.  Seriously.  He says "I'll write about that later.  Instead of just doing it.  However, it's the first I actually put together Rashid/Fusco.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:20

okay - yeah, I can't read all of that.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:29

Robert J Sakimano wrote:honest to god, from the first 7 sentences of the article..

For the record let me make it very clear that I hate transferring.

Head Coach Tom Izzo (who shares my disdain for transfers)

everyone involved doesn't like transfers

While I have great disdain for transferring






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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:39

What's this about transferring? I refuse to read Hondo. It makes my brain all fuzzy when I do... in a bad way.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by steveschneider on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:39

Dwags can you cut and paste the best part of the article and put in here.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by tGreenWay on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:43

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:What's this about transferring? I refuse to read Hondo. It makes my brain all fuzzy when I do... in a bad way.

This. Crib notes, please. Reading Hondo makes my teeth itch.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:45

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:What's this about transferring? I refuse to read Hondo. It makes my brain all fuzzy when I do... in a bad way.
I'd rather stick my hand into a fully operating garbage disposal than read something written by Hondo..

that said, I heard Jack Ebling talking about it the other day.. apparently this kid is an MSU commit or signee (I don't know) - he transferred from Macomb Dakota to Clarkston.. Foster Loyer - his future teammate at MSU - plays for Clarkston. MHSAA followed up on the transfer and deemed that this was solely an "athletic transfer" and will not allow him to play for Clarkston. Some MHSAA bylaw forbids such a thing.

according to Jack and Geoff Kimmerly (who used to work for the LSJ, now works for MHSAA) the kid moved by himself..  to Clarkston?



anyway - a big clusterf**k all the way around it sounds like.. people are upset with the MHSAA for not allowing the kid to play, there are challenges that have been filed, hearings, more hearings, etc.

I don't know the point of Hondo's article (which I'm very thankful for - I'd feel really bad about myself if I intellectually absorbed anything he wrote).
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:48

oh - and I kinda gathered from listening to Jack and Geoff Kimmerly that the rule is in place, at least in part, to prohibit "super teams" from developing..
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by steveschneider on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:52

Robert J Sakimano wrote:oh - and I kinda gathered from listening to Jack and Geoff Kimmerly that the rule is in place, at least in part, to prohibit "super teams" from developing..

God forbid a 'super team' forms.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:53

steveschneider wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:oh - and I kinda gathered from listening to Jack and Geoff Kimmerly that the rule is in place, at least in part, to prohibit "super teams" from developing..

God forbid a 'super team' forms.
maybe I'm kinda old skool but I still like the idea of high school "teams" being built from the ground up.. versus having Mr. Basketball, runner up to Mr. Basketball and the runner up to the runner up to Mr. Basketball all on the same team.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by LooseGoose on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 15:58

steveschneider wrote:Dwags can you cut and paste the best part of the article and put in here.

The highlight of the article:

The Athletic Motivated Transfer Regulation has been in effect since 1997.

Author Hondo Carpenter @hondocarpenter

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Clarett's Folly on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 16:05

Robert J Sakimano wrote:oh - and I kinda gathered from listening to Jack and Geoff Kimmerly that the rule is in place, at least in part, to prohibit "super teams" from developing..

Meanwhile, in the Detroit Catholic league...
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by goodbar on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 16:07

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

I don't know the point of Hondo's article (which I'm very thankful for - I'd feel really bad about myself if I intellectually absorbed anything he wrote).

I think its that.....he's not in favor of transferring?  I think. Maybe.

I'm not 100% on that, he's pretty vague on that topic.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by SawGreen on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 16:20

steveschneider wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:oh - and I kinda gathered from listening to Jack and Geoff Kimmerly that the rule is in place, at least in part, to prohibit "super teams" from developing..

God forbid a 'super team' forms.

I respect the intent of the rule, and understand its intent. How it was enforced in this instance is pretty suspect. The aspect I can't get around is when/if a coach is undeniably better than another, which is tough to judge.

I am always for competition, so it's kind of a personal freedom vs. competition argument ... the whole thing is kind of sad.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 16:23

I kinda skimmed it but the gist of it is that the guy on the Executive Committee at the MHSAA has a 30 year relationship with the Dakota boys bb coach, the principals had already discussed the transfer and there was no issue, the AD discussed the transfer with the MHSAA guy and there was no issue until MHSAA guy asked who it was, Clarkston AD told him it was Kithier and he turned on a dime and said if Dakota has any balls they wouldn't sign the waiver.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by DWags on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 17:18

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I kinda skimmed it but the gist of it is that the guy on the Executive Committee at the MHSAA has a 30 year relationship with the Dakota boys bb coach, the principals had already discussed the transfer and there was no issue, the AD discussed the transfer with the MHSAA guy and there was no issue until MHSAA guy asked who it was, Clarkston AD told him it was Kithier and he turned on a dime and said if Dakota has any balls they wouldn't sign the waiver.


Dakota: signed off on three other kids transferring out this year. From the b-ball program. Three others.

Kid is pretty smart. Dakota didn’t have a fancy math class and a production course the kid wanted.

Mom is 29 years teaching. She personally visits Grosse Pointe South Utica and another district for ACADEMIC reasons.

Clarkston has both classes. Both.

I know Fusco (Dakota) and Rashid (MHSAA) worked with them 25 years ago. Both are C-unts.

Supes principals, Say they have no problem signing off. (Withou Fusco knowing yet).

When the 2nd year AD at Clarkston hears the good news sees the apartment the 18 year old kid is legally in he wants to make sure, so he gives Rashid one more call to verbally go through it.

This is when Rashid finds out who it is. Turns 180 says no way (not his call by the way, ). Says Dakota shouldn’t sign off and all that BS.

Suddenly, Dakota has a change of mind. Now they’re bunkered up and won’t talk.

Rashid and Fusco’s relationship is now documented.

Law suits abound.

Kid got fucked.

Rashid also let Dakota kids transfer to DelaSalle for football this year. “For football” not academics.

He has some slainin to do.

Kid got fucked.

D-Hondo-Wags

Signing off.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Herbie Green on Mon 18 Dec 2017 - 23:48

I really really tried to read as far as I could.  Beyond the terrible writing it is a complete homer article.  This was a clear violation.  I wouldn't be surprised if the MHSAA toughened standards even further
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 7:54

Herbie Green wrote:I really really tried to read as far as I could.  Beyond the terrible writing it is a complete homer article.  This was a clear violation.  I wouldn't be surprised if the MHSAA toughened standards even further
I'm really - REALLY - hoping that Hondo didn't graduate from Michigan State.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by steveschneider on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 8:16

SawGreen wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

God forbid a 'super team' forms.

I respect the intent of the rule, and understand its intent. How it was enforced in this instance is pretty suspect. The aspect I can't get around is when/if a coach is undeniably better than another, which is tough to judge.

I am always for competition, so it's kind of a personal freedom vs. competition argument ... the whole thing is kind of sad.

The spirit of modern basketball from aau, college, nba and even the Olympics is all about forming super teams.

It’s a teachable moment that carries over to the business world. Farmers compete against corporate farms. Mom and pop grocery stores compete with Walmart and Target. Small time retailers compete with amazon. On so many levels this is just how life works.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by LooseGoose on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 8:58

steveschneider wrote:
SawGreen wrote:

I respect the intent of the rule, and understand its intent. How it was enforced in this instance is pretty suspect. The aspect I can't get around is when/if a coach is undeniably better than another, which is tough to judge.

I am always for competition, so it's kind of a personal freedom vs. competition argument ... the whole thing is kind of sad.

The spirit of modern basketball from aau, college, nba and even the Olympics is all about forming super teams.

It’s a teachable moment that carries over to the business world. Farmers compete against corporate farms. Mom and pop grocery stores compete with Walmart and Target. Small time retailers compete with amazon. On so many levels this is just how life works.

And people lament this - then pull into the big box to spend their $$.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by NigelUno on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 9:20

Herbie Green wrote:I really really tried to read as far as I could.  Beyond the terrible writing it is a complete homer article.  This was a clear violation.  I wouldn't be surprised if the MHSAA toughened standards even further

Oh, Herbie.

You have to dig a little deeper.

Selective enforcement of the rules and AD's signing off on some transfers and not others is the story. That's not a homer take...it's reality.

It's cute that you're trying to be some bright eyed visionary for the sake of argument. But, pick another topic.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by DWags on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 9:51

Point is, in this aspect, Dakota high school is going to have to come up with reasons why they signed off on other transfers but not this one.  Fusco is going to have to step up and say why he had nno problem with other problems and then he has a problem with this one.   The Superintendent has to say why he had no problem with it and then he does.   The principal is in the same boat. 

Kids mom a lifelong educator, went to three other districts to research classes.  This is documented.  As far as an educational transfer, this  one has way more proof that it was for academics as much as athletics than any of the other of the transfers that were allowed by Dakota.  Specifically in football, their old coach, Mike Gionnone leaves Dakota, goes to a catholic league school, (Warren De la salle) gets transfers in from Dakota, no problem.  Fusco, their A.D. and Rashid the MHSAA guy were both long time catholic league guys.  Finally, if Rashid, from the MHSAA, who is a long time frined of Fusco, really said what was claimed, he has to explain that in court during this law suit.   

All of this really brings me back to all the BS we had to deal with from schools both poaching and parents wanting to leave for specific sports reasons.  Couldn't stand any of it.  

too bad for this kid.  I don't know how this will effect his progress as a player, but you have about four or five adults who really wanted to fuck this kid over. Not because of some rightiousness about following the rules, but because they wanted this kid to play at Dakota, not get educated there.   So far, they've succeeded.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 9:55

I found it interesting that the first thing the Fusco guy said once the Clarkston AD told him it was Kithier was asking if Dane or Dugan had anything to do with it.

There's something there, I'm not sure what it is. Maybe he has a long standing beef with that family?

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by DWags on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 10:09

Oh, and just as a side note, these dumb fucks at Dakota couldn't develop talent if they had to.   These were the same people who, when Dakota was built, they put the goal posts on the new football field 100 yards apart.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by LooseGoose on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 10:15

DWags wrote:Oh, and just as a side note, these dumb fucks at Dakota couldn't develop talent if they had to.   These were the same people who, when Dakota was built, they put the goal posts on the new football field 100 yards apart.

Sometimes you're very judgmental. Peace and love man.

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by y2kMgrad on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 11:50

Hondo likes transfers about as much as he likes grammar.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 11:55

y2kMgrad wrote:Hondo likes transfers about as much as he likes grammar.
I still haven't gotten final word on whether or not he's a graduate of Michigan State University..



"please, lawd jesus.. no"...

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Space Lord on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 12:47

steveschneider wrote:
SawGreen wrote:

I respect the intent of the rule, and understand its intent. How it was enforced in this instance is pretty suspect. The aspect I can't get around is when/if a coach is undeniably better than another, which is tough to judge.

I am always for competition, so it's kind of a personal freedom vs. competition argument ... the whole thing is kind of sad.

The spirit of modern basketball from aau, college, nba and even the Olympics is all about forming super teams.

It’s a teachable moment that carries over to the business world. Farmers compete against corporate farms. Mom and pop grocery stores compete with Walmart and Target. Small time retailers compete with amazon. On so many levels this is just how life works.
Ultimately it is not about forming super teams but accessing better coaching. If a brainiac student wants to eventually go into nuclear physics a decision by him/her to transfer to another school with better instruction would be beyond reproach. Obviously any MSU recruit is thinking long term about his basketball future and he shouldn't be penalized for looking to improve his future prospects. Transfers have been commonplace for years - in both public and parochial schools. Recently Detroit Western was a beneficiary of a Mt. Clemens diaspora (made up mostly of former transfers) and easily won a state title.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by steveschneider on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 13:08

Space Lord wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

The spirit of modern basketball from aau, college, nba and even the Olympics is all about forming super teams.

It’s a teachable moment that carries over to the business world. Farmers compete against corporate farms. Mom and pop grocery stores compete with Walmart and Target. Small time retailers compete with amazon. On so many levels this is just how life works.
Ultimately it is not about forming super teams but accessing better coaching. If a brainiac student wants to eventually go into nuclear physics a decision by him/her to transfer to another school with better instruction would be beyond reproach. Obviously any MSU recruit is thinking long term about his basketball future and he shouldn't be penalized for looking to improve his future prospects. Transfers have been commonplace for years - in both public and parochial schools. Recently Detroit Western was a beneficiary of a Mt. Clemens diaspora (made up mostly of former transfers) and easily won a state title.

You make a good point, why shouldn't an athlete be able to transfer to a school with a better coach to that can develop his/her talent further?

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Herbie Green on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 13:49

NigelUno wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:I really really tried to read as far as I could.  Beyond the terrible writing it is a complete homer article.  This was a clear violation.  I wouldn't be surprised if the MHSAA toughened standards even further

Oh, Herbie.

You have to dig a little deeper.

Selective enforcement of the rules and AD's signing off on some transfers and not others is the story.  That's not a homer take...it's reality.    

It's cute that you're trying to be some bright eyed visionary for the sake of argument.  But, pick another topic.  

Sorry Nigel, but you don't get to pick the topics I am allowed to post on.

It is not only right in the rules but directly reflected right on the form Dakota had to sign under a section for an 18 year old moving into his own place.  Dakota would have had to knowingly lie to sign.  

This is not nearly as complicated as people are making it out to be if they would simply acknowledge the facts over all this gossip they are latching onto to that puts their team in a favorable light. 

While so many people are up in arms about this, the fact of the matter is that Michigan high schools want MORE enforcement on tranfers than they are currently getting. And you can expect upcoming rules changes to reflect the schools they.serve.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Herbie Green on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 14:07

LooseGoose wrote:
steveschneider wrote:Dwags can you cut and paste the best part of the article and put in here.

The highlight of the article:

The Athletic Motivated Transfer Regulation has been in effect since 1997.

Author Hondo Carpenter  @hondocarpenter

I think the AAU teammate clause has only been in there a couple of years
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by LooseGoose on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 14:07

Herbie Green wrote:Sorry Nigel, but you don't get to pick the topics I am allowed to post on.

Nigel

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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Death Roe on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 14:08



#TeamHerbie

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Where to start?
I mean, the first thing with pea soup is the texture, okay?
I've had watery pea soup, it's AWFUL.
Uh, I've had gelatinous, thick pea soup, it's TERRIBLE.
Pea soup, much like clam chowder, needs to have that consistency first, that you can stand the spoon up in it, but the spoon soon tilts, that's the consistency you want.
Number two: Uh, pea soup on it's own can be a little bland. It wants, uh, a fairly aggressive peppering and salting.
Number three: Pea soup needs a fine dice of ham. Not bacon, not any other meat, not turkey. It needs a fine dice of ham.
Uh, number four: Uh, pea soup scorches easily. You don't wanna heat it on a high heat. You wanna heat it on medium low, just until it's warmed through.
Uh, number five: Pea soup is best made, uh, by hand, not out of a Campbell's can. And the key to pea soup, you want a ham bone, uh, for the stock you make, uh, to, to boil your peas.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

Post by Herbie Green on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 14:16

steveschneider wrote:
SawGreen wrote:

I respect the intent of the rule, and understand its intent.  How it was enforced in this instance is pretty suspect.  The aspect I can't get around is when/if a coach is undeniably better than another, which is tough to judge.

I am always for competition, so it's kind of a personal freedom vs. competition argument ... the whole thing is kind of sad.  

The spirit of modern basketball from aau, college, nba and even the Olympics is all about forming super teams.

It’s a teachable moment that carries over to the business world. Farmers compete against corporate farms. Mom and pop grocery stores compete with Walmart and Target. Small time retailers compete with amazon. On so many levels this is just how life works.

Seems to be more of a teachable moment for the Kithiers and Clarkston.  Sometimes in life you have to follow rules whether you agree with them or not.  You are always better off telling the truth.  You can't always just pack up and leave when the going gets tough.  It is often better to take the high road than lashing out publicly and embarrassing yourself.
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Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

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