Re: Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier.

by **NigelUno** 2017-12-20, 12:16

Herbie Green wrote:
NigelUno wrote:Loyalty is a one way street in HerbieLand.

Poor Nigel. Unable to focus on anything but his stupid irrelevant point I have no interest in discussing that you continue to try to directly attribute to me. Will you be able to move on in your next post? I put it at 10-1

Of course, you don't want to discuss it. You expect loyalty from teenagers, but not adults.

You have kids, right?

Let's say you want to move them to East Lansing or Okemos for athletic reasons. You don't think you should be able to do that? Why the fuck not? Especially, if others are allowed to do it...

(I fully realize you won't answer any of those questions, because it would make your head explode.)

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2017-12-20, 12:22

You dumb fucks aren’t even arguing the same thing. It’s like when duff plays the rule card. It’s a stupid rule but it’s a rule. In this case i am Nigel(nooooo!!!) and duff is herbie.

by **NigelUno** 2017-12-20, 12:50

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:You dumb fucks aren’t even arguing the same thing. It’s like when duff plays the rule card. It’s a stupid rule but it’s a rule. In this case i am Nigel(nooooo!!!) and duff is herbie.

The point is the rule is arbitrarily applied.

Not that difficult.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-20, 12:57

NigelUno wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

Poor Nigel. Unable to focus on anything but his stupid irrelevant point I have no interest in discussing that you continue to try to directly attribute to me. Will you be able to move on in your next post? I put it at 10-1

Of course, you don't want to discuss it. You expect loyalty from teenagers, but not adults.

You have kids, right?

Let's say you want to move them to East Lansing or Okemos for athletic reasons. You don't think you should be able to do that? Why the fuck not? Especially, if others are allowed to do it...

(I fully realize you won't answer any of those questions, because it would make your head explode.)

Where have I discussed any of these things you have invented in your mind and are unable to move on from?

But I should have more time to respond now that I am letting my 11 year old drive the car so I won't be a hypocrite.

As to your question, I would think twice about doing it if he was joining up with an AAU teammate, as that would be against a specific rule. I wouldn't risk his eligibility because of my personal opinion that differs from the actual rule and then start showing up at board meetings and suing people.

And yes, I not only have kids but could very well be facing this exact kind of issue in the next couple of years based on what everyone is saying about a certain coach. I would hope it doesn't get to the point where I felt the need to switch schools or even move for one year of basketball. But I can see both sides. The AAU thing is funny to me because in the last year my kid has played on two AAU teams, Gus Mackers, open gyms, a charity tournament. He would be barred from transferring to like 20 school districts. In AAU my kids have played against everything from Nike teams to kids that looked like it was their first time playing and got some white tshirts at Walmart and put numbers on with a magic marker. But I get the intent of the rule.
I notice a lot of movement before 9th grade as I think parents know that is the time to make a school of choice move without paying a penalty of sitting out. Maybe we should actually be talking about school of choice transfers since there are hundreds or thousands of them instead of the five kids in the entire state if Michigan in all sports that get banned for a year because of athletically motivated transfer. But I know your aversion to relevancy.

by **DWags** 2017-12-20, 13:09

NigelUno wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:You dumb fucks aren’t even arguing the same thing. It’s like when duff plays the rule card. It’s a stupid rule but it’s a rule. In this case i am Nigel(nooooo!!!) and duff is herbie.

The point is the rule is arbitrarily applied.

Not that difficult.

Yep. And as an old administrator I can tell you there are 100’s of us who just want to see the mhsaa and this hypocritical school fried for their arbitrary adherence to it. We all knew the stand up schools and the scumbags. Nobody would even be bothered by Dakota had they always been consistent in applying this. Both as a school who gained and lost kids.

by **DWags** 2017-12-20, 13:18

Herbie Green wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Of course, you don't want to discuss it. You expect loyalty from teenagers, but not adults.

You have kids, right?

Let's say you want to move them to East Lansing or Okemos for athletic reasons. You don't think you should be able to do that? Why the fuck not? Especially, if others are allowed to do it...

(I fully realize you won't answer any of those questions, because it would make your head explode.)

Where have I discussed any of these things you have invented in your mind and are unable to move on from?

But I should have more time to respond now that I am letting my 11 year old drive the car so I won't be a hypocrite.

As to your question, I would think twice about doing it if he was joining up with an AAU teammate, as that would be against a specific rule. I wouldn't risk his eligibility because of my personal opinion that differs from the actual rule and then start showing up at board meetings and suing people.

And yes, I not only have kids but could very well be facing this exact kind of issue in the next couple of years based on what everyone is saying about a certain coach. I would hope it doesn't get to the point where I felt the need to switch schools or even move for one year of basketball. But I can see both sides. The AAU thing is funny to me because in the last year my kid has played on two AAU teams, Gus Mackers, open gyms, a charity tournament. He would be barred from transferring to like 20 school districts. In AAU my kids have played against everything from Nike teams to kids that looked like it was their first time playing and got some white tshirts at Walmart and put numbers on with a magic marker. But I get the intent of the rule.
I notice a lot of movement before 9th grade as I think parents know that is the time to make a school of choice move without paying a penalty of sitting out. Maybe we should actually be talking about school of choice transfers since there are hundreds or thousands of them instead of the five kids in the entire state if Michigan in all sports that get banned for a year because of athletically motivated transfer. But I know your aversion to relevancy.

Holy hell youre clueless. Wow. I blame myself for this. I just posted in one city the number of transfers that are known and you’re talking five kids it’s effected. Head meet wall.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2017-12-20, 13:28

Herbie is out of his element again. So sad to see a once great poster fail.

by Guest 2017-12-20, 13:30

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Herbie is out of his element again. So sad to see a once great poster fail.

Have you considered the possibility that he's posting on a plane that you can't comprehend?

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2017-12-20, 13:39

LooseGoose wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Herbie is out of his element again. So sad to see a once great poster fail.

Have you considered the possibility that he's posting on a plane that you can't comprehend?

Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier. - Page 3 847

by Herbie Green 2017-12-20, 15:26

DWags wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

Where have I discussed any of these things you have invented in your mind and are unable to move on from?

But I should have more time to respond now that I am letting my 11 year old drive the car so I won't be a hypocrite.

As to your question, I would think twice about doing it if he was joining up with an AAU teammate, as that would be against a specific rule. I wouldn't risk his eligibility because of my personal opinion that differs from the actual rule and then start showing up at board meetings and suing people.

And yes, I not only have kids but could very well be facing this exact kind of issue in the next couple of years based on what everyone is saying about a certain coach. I would hope it doesn't get to the point where I felt the need to switch schools or even move for one year of basketball. But I can see both sides. The AAU thing is funny to me because in the last year my kid has played on two AAU teams, Gus Mackers, open gyms, a charity tournament. He would be barred from transferring to like 20 school districts. In AAU my kids have played against everything from Nike teams to kids that looked like it was their first time playing and got some white tshirts at Walmart and put numbers on with a magic marker. But I get the intent of the rule.
I notice a lot of movement before 9th grade as I think parents know that is the time to make a school of choice move without paying a penalty of sitting out. Maybe we should actually be talking about school of choice transfers since there are hundreds or thousands of them instead of the five kids in the entire state if Michigan in all sports that get banned for a year because of athletically motivated transfer. But I know your aversion to relevancy.

Holy hell youre clueless. Wow. I blame myself for this. I just posted in one city the number of transfers that are known and you’re talking five kids it’s effected. Head meet wall.

My post says 5 were BANNED for athletic motivated transfer. I thought I read something like that. In an earlier post I said there were hundreds if not thousands of transfers. You might want to learn to read before running your mouth next time.
The MHSAA is not an investigative agency so all those transfers you are talking about are completely irrelevant to this case. A ruling is only made when a school raises the issue in protest, which once again, hardly ever happens.

Show me a case where an 18 year old moved into an apartment, joined the school of an AAU teammate, tjere were numerous newspaper articles about it and the former school protested and the MHSAA ruled he was inelgible to play. That is the relevant comparison for "arbitrary enforcement"

Edit - Actually it is right in the post you are responding to that there are hundreds or thousands of transfers. Nice work!

by Herbie Green 2017-12-20, 15:34

Oh, it appears I kind of overstated it. MHSAA says there are just 2 or 3 transfer protests a year.

"There were enough instances in the media reporting the desire to play together," said Johnson, adding the MHSAA gets about two or three transfer disputes a year, and that "several have proven to be true in the end.""

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/high-school/2017/12/07/mhsaa-rules-clarkstons-thomas-kithier-ineligible/108410930/

by **DWags** 2017-12-20, 16:19

Herbie Green wrote:Oh, it appears I kind of overstated it. MHSAA says there are just 2 or 3 transfer protests a year.

"There were enough instances in the media reporting the desire to play together," said Johnson, adding the MHSAA gets about two or three transfer disputes a year, and that "several have proven to be true in the end.""

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/high-school/2017/12/07/mhsaa-rules-clarkstons-thomas-kithier-ineligible/108410930/

No shit? You mean most schools sign off on that stuff whether they know it’s for athletics or not? Really? Is that what you’re saying? How many “knowingly lie”? Hmmmm. I heard that there are some assholes that would not do that because, you know man, it’s the rule.

And I’ll tell you what, the mhsaa is not an investigative organization, so if they were to have an assistant director contact a member school and actually be dumb enough to tell them to complain, and that can be proven in court, man would that be crazy. Especially if it can be proven you don’t enforce the rule 100% of the time, even if complaints are filed. Fact is, you sign the papers and move on. If your house isn’t in order and you complain like a little butch, I hope you get what you deserve.

I’d especially be nervous if I was the MHSAA and I had ruled two transfer students ineligible last year from Clawson who transferred to Mott but then changed my mind when a mom changed the story on paper, yet now some asst director has dug his heels in and it just so happens he has a lifelong friend at Dakota.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-20, 18:56

I am sure the MHSAA is shaking in their shoes Dwags. Do you think some members could be facing jail time for their arbitrary rulings on whether kids can play ball?
This new AAU rule might have only been implemented in 2014 but at 2-3 transfer cases a year they must be sitting on a big stack of arbitrary decisions just like Kithiers case. I would like to hear more about this Clawson case for starters.

by **NigelUno** 2017-12-20, 19:16

Herbie Green wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Of course, you don't want to discuss it. You expect loyalty from teenagers, but not adults.

You have kids, right?

Let's say you want to move them to East Lansing or Okemos for athletic reasons. You don't think you should be able to do that? Why the fuck not? Especially, if others are allowed to do it...

(I fully realize you won't answer any of those questions, because it would make your head explode.)

Where have I discussed any of these things you have invented in your mind and are unable to move on from?

But I should have more time to respond now that I am letting my 11 year old drive the car so I won't be a hypocrite.

As to your question, I would think twice about doing it if he was joining up with an AAU teammate, as that would be against a specific rule. I wouldn't risk his eligibility because of my personal opinion that differs from the actual rule and then start showing up at board meetings and suing people.

And yes, I not only have kids but could very well be facing this exact kind of issue in the next couple of years based on what everyone is saying about a certain coach. I would hope it doesn't get to the point where I felt the need to switch schools or even move for one year of basketball. But I can see both sides. The AAU thing is funny to me because in the last year my kid has played on two AAU teams, Gus Mackers, open gyms, a charity tournament. He would be barred from transferring to like 20 school districts. In AAU my kids have played against everything from Nike teams to kids that looked like it was their first time playing and got some white tshirts at Walmart and put numbers on with a magic marker. But I get the intent of the rule.
I notice a lot of movement before 9th grade as I think parents know that is the time to make a school of choice move without paying a penalty of sitting out. Maybe we should actually be talking about school of choice transfers since there are hundreds or thousands of them instead of the five kids in the entire state if Michigan in all sports that get banned for a year because of athletically motivated transfer. But I know your aversion to relevancy.

You don't think you should be able to move your kids if you want to? Seriously?

And all because there's a rule...that's arbitrarily applied?

I mean forget just the basic idea that you SHOULD be able to move your kids for their benefit (whether that's academically or athletically).

Why should a Coach or AD at your current school prevent you from doing what you think is right for your kid?

Because the kids should be loyal, right?

But the Coaches and AD's can leave whenever the hell they want to take better jobs (for athletic reasons).

It's ridiculous.

That you continue to argue shows a serious lack of common sense.

by **GRR Spartan** 2017-12-20, 19:29

MHSAA doesn't shake in their boots for anyone. Their arrogance is well known. I don't recall another organization that spent over $7M in legal expenses to fight Title IX for almost 9 years and was ready to spend even more until the SCOTUS wouldn't here their last appeal to overturn Federal Judge Enslen's ruling.

I know of a coule families that got screwed with the way the Kithiers are now and within the same calendar year the MHSAA never said a word as DCD got transfers to their boys and girls teams.

DWags was an administrator and dealt with dozens of this type of request. I was a parent appointed to a school board committee that advised the administrators and full board on this stuff.

Coaches and a few parents with delusions of grandeur for their kids who might be a starting teammate of the player requesting to transfer. We never fought one and the only caveat was they had to sit out ne semester per MHSAA rules. We had board members advise players of unhappy fall sports participants to transfer at the end of fall term so they wouldn't have to petition us for an exception.

Bottom line is if the kid and the parents are miserable, get them the hell out of your school before their attitude spreads.

by Guest 2017-12-20, 19:30

Triggered ^^^

Herbie is absolutely destroying Nigel, it's embarrassing.

by **DWags** 2017-12-20, 19:43

LooseGoose wrote:Triggered ^^^

Herbie is absolutely destroying Nigel, it's embarrassing.

Jesus. I don’t know why I got sucked into his idiocy. My own fault. I know he’s clueless yet I bang my head on the wall. Goose, we’re old enough to know he’d have been shot by his own troops in Nam.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-20, 21:03

Great points Nigel. I am so glad I finally answered your question as your response was very thought provoking

by Herbie Green 2017-12-20, 21:16

DWags wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Triggered ^^^

Herbie is absolutely destroying Nigel, it's embarrassing.

Jesus. I don’t know why I got sucked into his idiocy. My own fault. I know he’s clueless yet I bang my head on the wall. Goose, we’re old enough to know he’d have been shot by his own troops in Nam.

Just tell me what district you work for and I will do us both a favor by making sure my kids never transfer to a place that would actually employ a dumb ass like you.

....is that the kind of non-idiotic discourse you are looking for Dwags? I Don't usually stoop down to this level

by **Death Roe** 2017-12-20, 21:18

Keep going, Herbie

by **DWags** 2017-12-20, 21:20

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2017-12-20, 21:21

Herbie what's your favorite sexual position

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2017-12-20, 21:23

This thread is a dotard.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-20, 21:31

GRR Spartan wrote:MHSAA doesn't shake in their boots for anyone. Their arrogance is well known. I don't recall another organization that spent over $7M in legal expenses to fight Title IX for almost 9 years and was ready to spend even more until the SCOTUS wouldn't here their last appeal to overturn Federal Judge Enslen's ruling.

I know of a coule families that got screwed with the way the Kithiers are now and within the same calendar year the MHSAA never said a word as DCD got transfers to their boys and girls teams.

DWags was an administrator and dealt with dozens of this type of request. I was a parent appointed to a school board committee that advised the administrators and full board on this stuff.

Coaches and a few parents with delusions of grandeur for their kids who might be a starting teammate of the player requesting to transfer. We never fought one and the only caveat was they had to sit out ne semester per MHSAA rules. We had board members advise players of unhappy fall sports participants to transfer at the end of fall term so they wouldn't have to petition us for an exception.

Bottom line is if the kid and the parents are miserable, get them the hell out of your school before their attitude spreads.

Just wait until they get put on the stand in the people vs let Kithier play ball trial. They better hope them Clawson boys don't get summoned.

by **Death Roe** 2017-12-20, 21:33

Ok I finished

Thx Herbie <3

by **Death Roe** 2017-12-20, 21:34

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Herbie what's your favorite sexual position

I bet he celebrates Missionary Wednesdays

by aualum06 2017-12-20, 21:53

Death Roe wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Herbie what's your favorite sexual position

I bet he celebrates Missionary Wednesdays

Solo Sundays

by **tGreenWay** 2017-12-20, 22:13

I nominate this thread headline as the worst of 2017. It sends a shiver down my spine every time I see it.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-20, 22:47

Honestly, nothing is better than being on my back reading a good long Hondo article

by Herbie Green 2017-12-21, 11:34

So this high powered lawyer the Kithiers got is Fife's good friend - a former roommate and teammate from the UM basketball team.

I am no legal expert but this sounds like a hail mary and Nigel level argument :

"A high school senior and legal adult should be able to attend school anywhere he or she wants. Whether that includes playing basketball, volleyball, being a member of a marching band or in the drama club is completely irrelevant.”

They seek temp order to have him eligible January 15 while they attempt to argue the larger case.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/sports/20171217/kithiers-to-file-lawsuits-against-mhsaa-dakota

by **GRR Spartan** 2017-12-21, 11:52

That would be Dugan Fife's college firend since Dane Fife, the current MSU assistant is an IU grad.

Like DWags, I was able to vote as part of a group, see the requests and have a decent idea of the background of those requesting the transfer.

The issue in the Kithier case is the school he left has a history of allowing incoming and out going transfers without a blip on the radar until Kithier's request. Then they got interested in using the MHSAA.

I'm not a lawyer but I'm guessing Kithier's will be focusing in the MHSAA's lack of action on many transfers and their selective enforcement by essentially going to the member school's (Dakota HS in this case) decision to pursue Kithier's season long ban.

It will get interesting and the bullshit proposal the MHSAA is floating the you can transfer but you can't participate in a specific sport for a season is discriminatory as hell. That won't survive.

I suspect we will see a uniform 1 semester rule and get rid of the facade that's present in more than 90% of transfers involving athletes.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-21, 13:28

That is dad Fife who played in the 50s.

It doesnt appear to me that the lawyers are going after "arbitrary enforcement" or the Hondo gossip the slappies here were lapping up. I don't think those issues really matter in a court of law when there is a clear violation of a written rule.

So they have to go after the rule itself. The specific use of the word "adult" has me wondering if they are going after a technicality for 18 year olds. Which would not be very interesting because it wouldn't affect many students.

If they are going after the whole system and trying to get sports treated like a free school of choice transfer without penalty I doubt they would have success. I don't think sports are the same as Drama club. And if they did it would move things in the opposite direction of where things are headed which is actually more enforcement and or stringent rules..

by **DWags** 2017-12-21, 13:52

GRR Spartan wrote:That would be Dugan Fife's college firend since Dane Fife, the current MSU assistant is an IU grad.

Like DWags, I was able to vote as part of a group, see the requests and have a decent idea of the background of those requesting the transfer.

The issue in the Kithier case is the school he left has a history of allowing incoming and out going transfers without a blip on the radar until Kithier's request. Then they got interested in using the MHSAA.

I'm not a lawyer but I'm guessing Kithier's will be focusing in the MHSAA's lack of action on many transfers and their selective enforcement by essentially going to the member school's (Dakota HS in this case) decision to pursue Kithier's season long ban.

It will get interesting and the bullshit proposal the MHSAA is floating the you can transfer but you can't participate in a specific sport for a season is discriminatory as hell. That won't survive.

I suspect we will see a uniform 1 semester rule and get rid of the facade that's present in more than 90% of transfers involving athletes.

Best part of this is, conversations with old colleagues is that, finally, Dakota will get theirs. I’m willing to bet there won’t be one transfer into Dakota that won’t be contested in the future. While, I still completely disagree with ever doing that to anybody I just hope it gets rid of some real manipulative people over there. We’ll see. I also hope Rashid has to testify in court to show the general public how biased he is while working for a “non investigative “ body. Too long has this shit been going on.

Also, the story about the mhsaa using the son of a guy in the witness protection program is making its way around. I never read those open notes but it’s been said they gave permission once for a kid to immediately play because he family had to move as they were in witness protection and used the kids name and school in open notes. Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier. - Page 3 502811600

Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier. - Page 3 502811600

Old story,

Anyway, I wish the kid the best, but I’d love to see a very hypocritical program for once not get their way. Kithier will be fine no matter what.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-21, 15:02

Hasn't Dakota allowed transfers to come and go at will? I think they got put in this position by the high profile nature of the case. Whether that means the MHSAA is grandstanding and making an example out of the kid or the information was just so publicly available it was impossible to ignore, that is the reality of the situation. This was not like other cases. Maybe it was even the superintendent's call and not all these evil doer athletic people.

I am not impressed that other schools will be following Clarkston's lead on being petty. Dakota says they already did get a football player denied last year. They just didn't raise a big public stink bad mouthing the other school like Clarkston did.

I suppose I have to take your word that Dakota is some terrible place. I don't know anything about them or anything about high school sports in Detroit area. But from my vantage point following this case it is Clarkston that comes across looking much worse. Now it has come to a lawsuit over whether the kid can play ball but he moved there for the education right? Did someone say hypocrisy?

Regardless of what side you are on I hope the MHSAA can come up with a rule with auto enforcement. It is obvious there is very little that can be done to enforce now and then the rare instance they do we end up with this petty public bickering. Just shut your mouths and demonstrate who the actual adults are.

by **NigelUno** 2017-12-22, 13:43

Herbie Green wrote:Just shut your mouths and demonstrate who the actual adults are.

Wow, I'm giving it up to Hondo, he nailed it in regards to Kithier. - Page 3 1837840279

by Guest 2017-12-29, 19:10

Thomas Kithier sues MHSAA, claims harassment by ex-coach

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2017-12-30, 08:23

Some of the thoughts expressed in this thread make Hondo look like one of the greatest minds of our time.

(that's not a good thing, btw).

by SawGreen 2017-12-30, 08:41

LooseGoose wrote:Thomas Kithier sues MHSAA, claims harassment by ex-coach

Good for them. I hope it works out. Can the kid even practice?

by **DWags** 2018-01-10, 20:38

MHSAA filing to throw Kithier’s law suit out.

The way these fucks filed this shows how full of them selves they are.

Clarkston — The group that oversees Michigan high school sports is firing back in response to a lawsuit filed by a star basketball player who has been benched.
The Michigan High School Athletic Association says there’s no constitutional right to play sports. In a court filing Monday, the association says Thomas Kithier’s claim of emotional distress “does not pass the laugh test.”

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2018-01-11, 15:58

Judge Herbie denied the motion.

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