We gone: America and the Great Abdication

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We gone: America and the Great Abdication

Post by Turtleneck on 2018-01-02, 12:55

America and the Great Abdication: Don’t mistake Donald Trump’s withdrawal from the world for isolationism.

When great powers fade, as they inevitably must, it’s normally for one of two reasons. Some powers exhaust themselves through overreach abroad, underinvestment at home, or a mixture of the two. This was the case for the Soviet Union. Other powers lose their privileged position with the emergence of new, stronger powers. This describes what happened with France and Great Britain in the case of Germany’s emergence after World War I and, more benignly, with the European powers and the rise of the United States during and after World War II.

To some extent America is facing a version of this—amid what Fareed Zakaria has dubbed “the rise of the rest”—with China’s ascendance the most significant development. But the United States has now introduced a third means by which a major power forfeits international advantage. It is abdication, the voluntary relinquishing of power and responsibility. It is brought about more by choice than by circumstances either at home or abroad.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/12/america-abidcation-trump-foreign-policy/549296/

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Re: We gone: America and the Great Abdication

Post by I.B. Fine on 2018-01-02, 13:44

Turtleneck wrote:
America and the Great Abdication: Don’t mistake Donald Trump’s withdrawal from the world for isolationism.  

When great powers fade, as they inevitably must, it’s normally for one of two reasons. Some powers exhaust themselves through overreach abroad, underinvestment at home, or a mixture of the two. This was the case for the Soviet Union. Other powers lose their privileged position with the emergence of new, stronger powers. This describes what happened with France and Great Britain in the case of Germany’s emergence after World War I and, more benignly, with the European powers and the rise of the United States during and after World War II.

To some extent America is facing a version of this—amid what Fareed Zakaria has dubbed “the rise of the rest”—with China’s ascendance the most significant development. But the United States has now introduced a third means by which a major power forfeits international advantage. It is abdication, the voluntary relinquishing of power and responsibility. It is brought about more by choice than by circumstances either at home or abroad.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/12/america-abidcation-trump-foreign-policy/549296/
No time to read that now, but it seems to be a mis-characterization of what I understand to be the strategy.
More like when the cabin depressurizes, grab your mask (America's) first, then look to help others, as opposed to the Obama method of let everyone else grab a mask (or 2) first, and hope one is left.
But whatever feeds your narrative....

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Re: We gone: America and the Great Abdication

Post by Turtleneck on 2018-01-02, 13:57

I do not have time to read this...but here are my comments about it...


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Re: We gone: America and the Great Abdication

Post by tGreenWay on 2018-01-02, 16:33

He. B. Foning it in.

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Re: We gone: America and the Great Abdication

Post by GRR Spartan on 2018-01-02, 18:04

Trump is a near sighted tool who only sees what's good for him and his companies.

The Chinese will take full advantage.

Just as frightening, Adm Mike Mullen (USN) former chair of the Joint Chiefs (nominated by Bush2 appointee) appeared on ABC's This Week and said,
The US is "closer to a nuclear war with North Korea" than ever, and he doesn't see a diplomatics solution at this time.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/31/politics/north-korea-trump-mullen-graham/index.html

Today on NPR's Hear and Now, retired Navy Adm. James Stavridis said while he believes diplomacy is the best way out of the North Korean crisis, Trump's tweets have effectively reduced the US's stature and a place at the table. Then he said he thinks the possbility of a nuclear war is "only" 20%.

Its going to take at least 20 years to undo Trump's diplomacy fuck ups.
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Re: We gone: America and the Great Abdication

Post by Cameron on 2018-01-04, 14:51

I.B. Fine wrote:
No time to read that now, but it seems to be a mis-characterization of what I understand to be the strategy.
More like when the cabin depressurizes, grab your mask (America's) first, then look to help others, as opposed to the Obama method of let everyone else grab a mask (or 2) first, and hope one is left.
But whatever feeds your narrative....

In this analogy, what is the cabin? What is the depressurization? What are the masks? You seem to assert that Obama was content to let America go without some vital resource if need be. I'm struggling to recall a situation in which he did that, but perhaps you have one in mind to which you are referring.

I doubt it, though, it seems far more likely that you are talking out of your ass.

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Re: We gone: America and the Great Abdication

Post by Turtleneck on 2018-01-04, 15:14

Cameron wrote:
I.B. Fine wrote:
No time to read that now, but it seems to be a mis-characterization of what I understand to be the strategy.
More like when the cabin depressurizes, grab your mask (America's) first, then look to help others, as opposed to the Obama method of let everyone else grab a mask (or 2) first, and hope one is left.
But whatever feeds your narrative....

In this analogy, what is the cabin? What is the depressurization? What are the masks? You seem to assert that Obama was content to let America go without some vital resource if need be. I'm struggling to recall a situation in which he did that, but perhaps you have one in mind to which you are referring.

I doubt it, though, it seems far more likely that you are talking out of your ass.

It would be more accurate to say the U.S. took on the responsibility of keeping the cabin pressurized after WWII, and under Trump would prefer to shed that responsibility and let the cabin depressurize.

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