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Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-01-30, 17:52

UAW corrupt as ever  

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/2018/01/30/A-30-000-party-secret-lump-sum-payments-among-gifts-lavished-on-UAW-Chrysler-officials/stories/201801300025


The gifts ranged from paying off a top UAW official’s mortgage to throwing a $30,000 party for one UAW official that included $7,000 worth of cigars and $3,000 in specially labeled bottles of wine.

In nearly every instance, the money came through the UAW-Chrysler National Training Center using money provided by FCA, according to federal documents. Federal prosecutors allege the gifts violated the federal Labor Management Relations Act and were intended to “obtain benefits, concessions and advantages for FCA in the negotiation, implementation and administration of the collective bargaining agreements between FCA and the UAW.”
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Rocinante on 2018-01-30, 19:02

In a world where wages have been stagnant for a generation while productivity has soared, where the richest one percent hoard nearly half the wealth, one man tries to explain why worker collective action is the only way to economic justice.

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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by tGreenWay on 2018-01-31, 01:25

Rocinante wrote:In a world where wages have been stagnant for a generation while productivity has soared, where the richest one percent hoard nearly half the wealth, one man tries to explain why worker collective action is the only way to economic justice.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/01/22/forty-two-people-hold-wealth-half-world-oxfam-says/amp/

“According to its report, billionaire wealth rose by an average of 13pc a year between 2006 and 2015 – six times faster than the wages of ordinary workers.

It takes just four days for a CEO of one of the world's five biggest fashion retailers to earn as much as a Bangladeshi garment worker will earn in her entire lifetime, the report added.”

“A report by The Institute for Policy Studies last year showed that the three wealthiest people in the United States – Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, and Warren Buffett – own more wealth than the entire bottom half of the American population combined, a total of 160 million people.”
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-01-31, 08:43

So about one of the largest union in the world being corrupt.....

Do you guys understand the trickle down affect of what happened? There was a reason the uaw targeted FCA as the company they would "strike".
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Rocinante on 2018-02-05, 11:48

To which I say "so what" Union corruption is a problem that union members can do something about. Unions are still the backbone of the middle class which is why the systematic and deliberate dismantling of them has led to a world where wages have remained stagnant for nearly 30 years, benefits have gone down significantly, and wealth is concentrated in a tiny fraction of society. Collective action is literally the only power the worker has. Right to work and other legislative union busting has destroyed what most people think of as America.

Decent wages
The American dream of owning a home
The weekend barbecue
Labor day
Healthcare
Retirement
Paid Vacations

All thanks to Unions.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-02-05, 16:23

Rocinante wrote:To which I say "so what" Union corruption is a problem that union members can do something about. Unions are still the backbone of the middle class which is why the systematic and deliberate dismantling of them has led to a world where wages have remained stagnant for nearly 30 years, benefits have gone down significantly, and wealth is concentrated in a tiny fraction of society. Collective action is literally the only power the worker has. Right to work and other legislative union busting has destroyed what most people think of as America.

Decent wages
The American dream of owning a home
The weekend barbecue
Labor day
Healthcare
Retirement
Paid Vacations

All thanks to Unions.

Sorry, that's all a myth dude. The UAW is a dues collecting organization. That's it. All they are concerned with is retaining dues.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Rocinante on 2018-02-05, 16:48

kingstonlake wrote:
Rocinante wrote:To which I say "so what" Union corruption is a problem that union members can do something about. Unions are still the backbone of the middle class which is why the systematic and deliberate dismantling of them has led to a world where wages have remained stagnant for nearly 30 years, benefits have gone down significantly, and wealth is concentrated in a tiny fraction of society. Collective action is literally the only power the worker has. Right to work and other legislative union busting has destroyed what most people think of as America.

Decent wages
The American dream of owning a home
The weekend barbecue
Labor day
Healthcare
Retirement
Paid Vacations

All thanks to Unions.

Sorry, that's all a myth dude. The UAW is a dues collecting organization. That's it. All they are concerned with is retaining dues.

Wait. What's a myth?
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-02-05, 17:17

Rocinante wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Sorry, that's all a myth dude. The UAW is a dues collecting organization. That's it. All they are concerned with is retaining dues.

Wait. What's a myth?

That unions are needed to Garner a fair wage for the middle class. Right to work isn't right to work for less. Koch umbrella companies pay far more than unionized labor employees in the mid West.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Cameron on 2018-02-05, 17:39

kingstonlake wrote:
Rocinante wrote:To which I say "so what" Union corruption is a problem that union members can do something about. Unions are still the backbone of the middle class which is why the systematic and deliberate dismantling of them has led to a world where wages have remained stagnant for nearly 30 years, benefits have gone down significantly, and wealth is concentrated in a tiny fraction of society. Collective action is literally the only power the worker has. Right to work and other legislative union busting has destroyed what most people think of as America.

Decent wages
The American dream of owning a home
The weekend barbecue
Labor day
Healthcare
Retirement
Paid Vacations

All thanks to Unions.

Sorry, that's all a myth dude. The UAW is a dues collecting organization. That's it. All they are concerned with is retaining dues.

So, what percentage of the gains made since the days of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" would you say are attributable to unions?

I'm trying to gauge how strongly I need to disagree with you here.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-02-05, 18:09

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Sorry, that's all a myth dude. The UAW is a dues collecting organization. That's it. All they are concerned with is retaining dues.

So, what percentage of the gains made since the days of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" would you say are attributable to unions?

I'm trying to gauge how strongly I need to disagree with you here.

This is the standard argument of current union supporters. They glorify the era of unions when they were effective. And there's nothing wrong with that. But it has nothing to do with the current state of unions and the things they've conceded and continue to concede. In fact it shows how little unions of today actually provide. Every time I'm in a discussion with a union official, it's all they want to talk about. The past. There's a reason.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-02-05, 18:11

The UAW lost all credibility when they entered into an agreement that gave them a vested interest in the profitablity of their employer. Your can't own stock in the company your trying to bargain with. It's a conflict of interest.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Rocinante on 2018-02-05, 20:41

Do you hate UAW, or unions in general?
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Cameron on 2018-02-05, 20:57

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:

So, what percentage of the gains made since the days of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" would you say are attributable to unions?

I'm trying to gauge how strongly I need to disagree with you here.

This is the standard argument of current union supporters. They glorify the era of unions when they were effective. And there's nothing wrong with that. But it has nothing to do with the current state of unions and the things they've conceded and continue to concede. In fact it shows how little unions of today actually provide. Every time I'm in a discussion with a union official, it's all they want to talk about. The past. There's a reason.

You didn't answer my question.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-02-06, 07:16

Rocinante wrote:Do you hate UAW, or unions in general?

The UAW for the most part. There are good, strong unions out there. The UAW is filthy though.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-02-06, 07:18

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

This is the standard argument of current union supporters. They glorify the era of unions when they were effective. And there's nothing wrong with that. But it has nothing to do with the current state of unions and the things they've conceded and continue to concede. In fact it shows how little unions of today actually provide. Every time I'm in a discussion with a union official, it's all they want to talk about. The past. There's a reason.

You didn't answer my question.

You're not really asking me if unions are responsible for some great things for the middle class are you? Thats a given. And factual. In an era of slave labor they proved organization was sorely needed.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Rocinante on 2018-02-06, 11:36

It seems like you're changing your position a little, but whatever as long as you acknowledge that workers' only power in negotiation is through collective action.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2018-02-06, 11:56

A lot of my extended family are in various unions. I really don't have a strong opinion on them. They did a lot of good early on back when Hoffa was starting up. Lately though they seem to be overreaching a bit. I don't have much knowledge about the current state of unions either, just stating my general sense of them.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Rocinante on 2018-02-06, 12:22

It's hard to overreach Pylon, when you've been beaten out of existence basically by lawmakers in cahoots with industry to maximize profits at the expense of fair compensation.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-02-06, 12:52

Rocinante wrote:It's hard to overreach Pylon, when you've been beaten out of existence basically by lawmakers in cahoots with industry to maximize profits at the expense of fair compensation.

That's a myth. You really think it's profitable for a business to pay a shitty wage, have high turnover, low quality, and an ass load of workers compensation claims from poor safety habits? It's a guaranteed formula for a sinking ship.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Rocinante on 2018-02-06, 14:08

kingstonlake wrote:
Rocinante wrote:It's hard to overreach Pylon, when you've been beaten out of existence basically by lawmakers in cahoots with industry to maximize profits at the expense of fair compensation.

That's a myth. You really think it's profitable for a business to pay a shitty wage, have high turnover, low quality, and an ass load of workers compensation claims from poor safety habits? It's a guaranteed formula for a sinking ship.

Providing decent healthcare and benefits costs more.  Why would any corporation provide more than the bare minimum it has to in compensation by whatever metric it chooses to calculate that?  How stupid would they have to be to pay well when there's nothing forcing them to?  Shareholders want dividends, not a happy workforce.  Come on man.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Rocinante on 2018-02-06, 14:09

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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Cameron on 2018-02-06, 15:19

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:

You didn't answer my question.

You're not really asking me if unions are responsible for some great things for the middle class are you?  Thats a given.  And factual.  In an era of slave labor they proved organization was sorely needed.

That is indeed what I was asking, and while you call it a given and factual, I've spoken with plenty of people who would not agree. Certainly there are some unions which have become stagnant and bloated and need to get their shit together, but unionization in general is still a good and necessary thing, in my book.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-02-06, 16:22

Rocinante wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

That's a myth. You really think it's profitable for a business to pay a shitty wage, have high turnover, low quality, and an ass load of workers compensation claims from poor safety habits? It's a guaranteed formula for a sinking ship.

Providing decent healthcare and benefits costs more.  Why would any corporation provide more than the bare minimum it has to in compensation by whatever metric it chooses to calculate that?  How stupid would they have to be to pay well when there's nothing forcing them to?  Shareholders want dividends, not a happy workforce.  Come on man.

I already told you.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by Rocinante on 2018-02-06, 16:49

kingstonlake wrote:
Rocinante wrote:

Providing decent healthcare and benefits costs more.  Why would any corporation provide more than the bare minimum it has to in compensation by whatever metric it chooses to calculate that?  How stupid would they have to be to pay well when there's nothing forcing them to?  Shareholders want dividends, not a happy workforce.  Come on man.

I already told you.

What? That it's "a guaranteed formula for a sinking ship" to pay shitty wages and not provide benefits?

That's demonstrably not true. I mean, let's look at the most glaring and extreme example of an industry that paid shitty wages and provided no benefits, and built an entire country.

Slavery seemed enormously profitable. Cotton exports alone constituted 50-60 percent of the value of the nation's total exports, helping pay for imports from abroad. And slave labor provided the raw material for New England's textile mills, helping stimulate the nation's early industrialization. Slave-produced commercial crops required a host of middlemen to sell and transport them to markets and to finance and supply the slave-owning planters.

It's not THAT huge of a leap
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-02-06, 21:47

Rocinante wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I already told you.

What?  That it's "a guaranteed formula for a sinking ship" to pay shitty wages and not provide benefits?  

That's demonstrably not true.  I mean, let's look at the most glaring and extreme example of an industry that paid shitty wages and provided no benefits, and built an entire country.

Slavery seemed enormously profitable. Cotton exports alone constituted 50-60 percent of the value of the nation's total exports, helping pay for imports from abroad. And slave labor provided the raw material for New England's textile mills, helping stimulate the nation's early industrialization. Slave-produced commercial crops required a host of middlemen to sell and transport them to markets and to finance and supply the slave-owning planters.

It's not THAT huge of a leap

I chose to leave the union environment. I saw that they protected the crappiest employees. Negotiated grievences in bad faith. Settled grievances for votes. Signed off on 10 hour days literally the last minute before a shift is over. Signed off on 7 days work weeks for a three month period. Call a strike and order people back to work before dinner was ready the same day when ac settlement wasn't on paper for three months. Admit they don't want to shut down a customer. If you're afraid to shut down a customer as bargaining tool, you've lost. You're not a union.
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Re: Want your mortgage paid off? 50k lump sum payments? 30k party thrown in your honor?

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