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Is Social Media Too Powerful?

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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-20, 16:42

Some interesting questions starting to be discussed. Facebook has been taken to task repeatedly in the last couple years and doesn't seem to have a handle on how much influence their platform has on not just reporting ("We're not a media company") but shaping global events.

Long Wired piece in Facebook's coming of age struggle.

Former head of Britain's version of the NSA says social media companies think they sit above democracy

Do these companies need to be better regulated? How would we do that? Is it a violation of the First Amendment to limit social media speech of Americans even if that speech may be echoing the propaganda of a foreign government?

NY Times on how Russians infiltrated American's psyches

Time: Russian troll factory stories from the indictment are true

Can any of us honestly assert that all people of any political persuasion really make their own decisions all the time? I mean we wouldn't have the term "sheeple" if we really thought that, right? And if we admit that people can be influenced to make bad choices through social media manipulation (even if that manipulation is only encouraging already held biases), shouldn't we do something about that?

I think the questions brought up through the investigation into Russian meddling transcend partisan politics. Both Left and Right wing people were influenced. I think we should be able to have a straightforward conversation on whether we want more regulated social media, some other form of content policing, or nothing at all, and what social media will look like in the future.

Do you think we can have that conversation, guys? bounce
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Post by Guest 2018-02-20, 16:50

Yes.

We need new age trustbusters.

Break up Facebook, Amazon, Alphabet, tSwill.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That 2018-02-20, 16:51

Yeah, and it starts with parents getting their children off technology rather than shoving it in their face so they shut up.
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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-20, 16:57

LooseGoose wrote:Yes.

We need new age trustbusters.

Break up Facebook, Amazon, Alphabet, tSwill.

I don't know if you're serious, but it's a valid, option... though how something like that works since social media platforms are user-driven would be challenging. I don't know that we really even have a definition for what these companies are. How do you regulate something you haven't even defined?
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Post by tGreenWay 2018-02-20, 17:21

LooseGoose wrote:Yes.

We need new age trustbusters.

Break up Facebook, Amazon, Alphabet, tSwill.

We can start with tSwill. Is Social Media Too Powerful? 1853518006
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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-20, 17:37

Here's a nice little article.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/technolibertarians-a-weak-link-in-democracys-defence-against-authoritarians-20170804-gxp8er.html

Silicon Valley's thinking in this area is shaped by techno-libertarianism, a faith in a utopia though technology and a disdain for the political and economic realities of actual governance.

Liberal democracies must be able to defend themselves online. Too much of the tech community dismisses, or even mocks, the fundamental political reality confronting the governments that guarantee and protect their rights.
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Post by Guest 2018-02-20, 17:45

Dead serious.

Especially Amazon, Facebook and Alphabet.

They all know way too much, they should be broken up like Standard Oil or the Bells were.
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Post by Cameron 2018-02-20, 19:00

I haven't read any of the links in this thread yet, but yes, social media is a net negative for humanity. I don't know what can/should be done about it. Anonymity seems like part of the problem, yet I'm constantly astounded by the things people will sign their real names to, so I don't really know the answer.

But fuck facebook and their algorithms. Fuck twitter too, once they ditched straight chronological, they lost the plot. Probably sucked before then, too, but less.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2018-02-20, 19:07

LooseGoose wrote:Dead serious.

Especially Amazon, Facebook and Alphabet.

They all know way too much, they should be broken up like Standard Oil or the Bells were.
I'm so out of the loop, I've never even heard of alphabet.
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Post by Guest 2018-02-20, 19:11

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Dead serious.

Especially Amazon, Facebook and Alphabet.

They all know way too much, they should be broken up like Standard Oil or the Bells were.
I'm so out of the loop, I've never even heard of alphabet.

Alphabet = Google's corporate name.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2018-02-20, 19:14

No.

It needs to be better understood and managed however. Everyone in this thread so far sounds like the guy 100 years ago that said “the car is the most dangerous thing ever and will never take off! The horse will always be the way we transport.” It’s not wrong to say that there are problems, but similar to how people needed to get drivers licenses and seat belts needed to be invented- there are improvements that must be made

Also the specifics of the improvements are probably left to smarter people than I. And also even if I knew I wouldn’t tell you for free I’d sell the idea to zuckerberg for a lot of money.
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Post by Guest 2018-02-20, 19:19

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:No.

It needs to be better understood and managed however. Everyone in this thread so far sounds like the guy 100 years ago that said “the car is the most dangerous thing ever and will never take off! The horse will always be the way we transport.” It’s not wrong to say that there are problems, but similar to how people needed to get drivers licenses and seat belts needed to be invented- there are improvements that must be made

Also the specifics of the improvements are probably left to smarter people than I. And also even if I knew I wouldn’t tell you for free I’d sell the idea to zuckerberg for a lot of money.

Your corporate overlords will be pleased.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2018-02-20, 19:23

LooseGoose wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:No.

It needs to be better understood and managed however. Everyone in this thread so far sounds like the guy 100 years ago that said “the car is the most dangerous thing ever and will never take off! The horse will always be the way we transport.” It’s not wrong to say that there are problems, but similar to how people needed to get drivers licenses and seat belts needed to be invented- there are improvements that must be made

Also the specifics of the improvements are probably left to smarter people than I. And also even if I knew I wouldn’t tell you for free I’d sell the idea to zuckerberg for a lot of money.

Your corporate overlords will be pleased.
It’s common sense really for someone who isn’t stuck in the 1950s. 

Yeah. It’s a new technology. Yeah. There’s hiccups. Yeah. There’s lots of benefits. Yeah. We need to figure out how to reap those benefits and minimize the hiccups. We’ve literally went through this process thousands of times in history.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2018-02-20, 19:45

LooseGoose wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: I'm so out of the loop, I've never even heard of alphabet.

Alphabet = Google's corporate name.
okay. Gotcha - thanks.
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Post by Code_Warrior 2018-02-20, 20:19

I don't know. I'm not in the break them up camp, I'm in the find alternatives camp. Outside of message boards and comment sections, I have no social media exposure - never been on Facebook, Twitter, instagram, snap chat, linked in, hell, I wasn't even on My Space.

Despite that, I started getting too into the political arguments. It got ridiculous. I was creating these long elaborate posts that were for sure going to win the argument with whatever poster I was debating with, and then after realizing that I just killed an hour of my life formulating some bullet proof point and I would ask myself what the fuck I was doing and why was this stupid debate so important to me. Then I would realize that it wasn't really important at all, so I'd delete what I typed and let it go. Wash, rinse, repeat. I can'tcount the number of times I did that. Eventually I just had to stop posting.

So, I don't know if the problem is so much social media as it is people who take it way too seriously. Then again, maybe I'm just projecting my issues onto other people. However, I think there's merit to the idea that the problem is people feel their contribution to social media is more important than it really is. How to fix that, I've no idea. For me, I just had to quit posting for a very long time.
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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-20, 20:56

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Your corporate overlords will be pleased.
It’s common sense really for someone who isn’t stuck in the 1950s. 

Yeah. It’s a new technology. Yeah. There’s hiccups. Yeah. There’s lots of benefits. Yeah. We need to figure out how to reap those benefits and minimize the hiccups. We’ve literally went through this process thousands of times in history.

So your answer is no social media companies don’t need to be regulated more but they need to be “managed better”? What does that look like do you think?
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2018-02-20, 20:57

Rocinante wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
It’s common sense really for someone who isn’t stuck in the 1950s. 

Yeah. It’s a new technology. Yeah. There’s hiccups. Yeah. There’s lots of benefits. Yeah. We need to figure out how to reap those benefits and minimize the hiccups. We’ve literally went through this process thousands of times in history.

So your answer is no social media companies don’t need to be regulated more but they need to be “managed better”? What does that look like do you think?
I answered a question I made up in my head that sounded more like “are they inherently bad” than all that. Like I said, I don’t know how to fix the problems but that doesn’t mean I think they are bad.
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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-20, 20:58

The interesting thing about saying that people “take social media way too seriously” and hey should stop is that I think we may be finding out that people can’t stop. It’s just how we are. Some of us anyway. Enough to cause problems.
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Post by CORNER BLITZ 2018-02-20, 20:58

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Yeah, and it starts with parents getting their children off technology rather than shoving it in their face so they shut up.

I feel like since the beginning of time parents have been looking for things to shut their kids up... It's just now there's something that actually works and that may be a problem
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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-20, 20:59

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Rocinante wrote:

So your answer is no social media companies don’t need to be regulated more but they need to be “managed better”? What does that look like do you think?
I answered a question I made up in my head that sounded more like “are they inherently bad” than all that. Like I said, I don’t know how to fix the problems but that doesn’t mean I think they are bad.

Is Social Media Too Powerful? 502811600 thanks for clearing that up. I also wouldn’t say they’re bad.
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Post by Code_Warrior 2018-02-20, 21:09

Rocinante wrote:The interesting thing about saying that people “take social media way too seriously” and hey should stop is that I think we may be finding out that people can’t stop. It’s just how we are. Some of us anyway. Enough to cause problems.
Yeah, you might be right about that. If so, then things may have to get a lot worse before people begin to police themselves and learn some discipline around their social media use. Policing myself is what I had to do, not saying that's what others need to do.
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Post by SawGreen 2018-02-20, 21:41

SAIP
https://www.yourmodernfamily.com/scary-truth-whats-hurting-kids/
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Post by Nordic 2018-02-20, 23:00

LooseGoose wrote:Dead serious.

Especially Amazon, Facebook and Alphabet.

They all know way too much, they should be broken up like Standard Oil or the Bells were.

You can pry my Amazon app from my cold dead hands
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Post by DWags 2018-02-20, 23:35

Nordic wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Dead serious.

Especially Amazon, Facebook and Alphabet.

They all know way too much, they should be broken up like Standard Oil or the Bells were.

You can pry my Amazon app from my cold dead hands

Is there an app for that?
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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-20, 23:48

This is interesting and kind of what I’m talking about with the “it’s just how we are” comment. And goose, I fully acknowledge that it happened on the left too.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/374792-woman-behind-pro-trump-facebook-page-denies-being-influenced-by

Florine Gruen Goldfarb is the greatest name ever.
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Post by Guest 2018-02-21, 11:05

RE: Amazon - just got linked to this.

The Dangers of Amazon’s Dominance


Concern about Amazonian dominance is valid. In retail, Amazon accounts for 53 percent of all e-commerce sales growth and cannot be matched by rivals given its robotized fulfillment centers and immediate deliveries. This has been devastating already. Twice as many stores closed in 2017, or 8,600, as the year before. Department store jobs have plummeted from 1.782 million in June 2001 to 1.27 million by November 2017. Projections suggest that between 2016 and 2026 the average annual growth of jobs across the economy will increase by 7 percent annually, but retail will increase by only 2 percent.

Of course, success and efficiency are not crimes, nor is bigness, unless it prevents anyone else from competing. Unfortunately, Amazon is on its way to becoming the next Standard Oil, which gained a stranglehold on the oil industry and related sectors so severe that capitalism itself was threatened and the company had to be busted up into competing companies in 1911.

Atop this all is concern about the fact that Amazon has inordinate market power to set the terms by which goods are bought and sold in the United States digitally, and which products will be on offer. This cartel, or oligopoly power, is why investors have bid up the value of Amazon stock beyond normal levels. Silicon Valley venture capitalist Chamath Palihapitiya described Amazon in Forbes last year as “a multi-trillion-dollar monopoly hiding in plain sight.”

Another less publicized danger concerns the company’s growing control over the underlying infrastructure of the economy itself: From its digital platform which dominates commerce, to its growing 44 percent control over cloud computing capacity used by everyone from the Central Intelligence Agency to Netflix, to the building of its own army of planes, trucks and drones, which all competitors will be forced to hire.

Such aggressive “vertical integration” is precisely why Standard Oil had to be busted up. Like Amazon, Standard Oil controlled all its marketplaces and forced all its competitors out of business or to become captive buyers and sellers of its goods and services.
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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-21, 11:08

Twitter may be purging bots today. I think SM platforms are legitimately scared that at some point the gubment gonna come in and regulate.

https://gizmodo.com/conservative-twitter-users-lose-thousands-of-followers-1823185428
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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-21, 11:10

I'm not going to lie though. Living where I live, Amazon is my go to for almost everything.
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Post by Guest 2018-02-21, 11:45

Rocinante wrote:I'm not going to lie though. Living where I live, Amazon is my go to for almost everything.

lol, me too. I probably average 2 deliveries a week between diapers/wipes for my daughter and other various trinkets - groceries, gifts, etc and I use their music service because why not?
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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-21, 16:13

This is a good rundown of Facebook's changing algorithm that Cam eluded to and how it was so easily exploitable by a hostile foreign power. Their arrogant absolute trust in their program and motives blinded them to the fact that it was a ready-made tool for a small, informed force to bend American public opinion and will toward a specific end, even though Facebook had been advertising their platform as a influential tool for campaigns.

NYTimes The Daily Podcast
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Post by Turtleneck 2018-02-21, 17:42

tSwill’s Twitter page is weak.
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Post by Rocinante 2018-02-21, 17:45

Who are you?

Turtleneck wrote:tSwill’s Twitter page is weak.
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Post by Turtleneck 2018-02-21, 17:56

Rocinante wrote:Who are you?

Turtleneck wrote:tSwill’s Twitter page is weak.

A Russian bot.
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Post by Cameron 2018-02-27, 06:52

https://www.theringer.com/tech/2018/2/27/17056320/snapchat-redesign-chronological-internet-twitter-instagram-facebook
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Post by Floyd Robertson 2018-02-27, 09:41

Cameron wrote:https://www.theringer.com/tech/2018/2/27/17056320/snapchat-redesign-chronological-internet-twitter-instagram-facebook

This is exactly the dystopian future that Zeynep Tufekci has been warning about. We're now controlled by corporations and their algorithms and nothing controls them to behave ethically/morally.
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Post by Cameron 2018-03-08, 06:58

https://www.theringer.com/tech/2018/3/8/17093982/twitter-bot-proble
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Post by steveschneider 2018-03-08, 07:05

The Swill 100% algorithm and bot free!
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Post by Floyd Robertson 2018-03-10, 18:07

YouTube, the Great Radicalizer
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Post by Cameron 2018-03-10, 20:13

Floyd Robertson wrote:YouTube, the Great Radicalizer

I don't like Youtube's algorithm. I enjoy variety, and Youtube constantly recommends the same shit to me. I've watched tons of different things on there, but probably 80% of my recommendations are Joe Rogan videos at this point.
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Post by SawGreen 2018-03-10, 20:19

Floyd Robertson wrote:
Cameron wrote:https://www.theringer.com/tech/2018/2/27/17056320/snapchat-redesign-chronological-internet-twitter-instagram-facebook

This is exactly the dystopian future that Zeynep Tufekci has been warning about. We're now controlled by corporations and their algorithms and nothing controls them to behave ethically/morally.

Thanks for this. It's one of those pretty obvious things, but it brought home a few new items. Even unintended, the large social media players are contributing to a breakdown of social structure.

I have been making a more than conscious effort to avoid the temptation of hype.
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