There are some new allegations

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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-04-12, 08:23

LooseGoose wrote:MLive up with a lengthy new story that in my 1st reading contains exactly no new information. A complete rehash highlight Merry Baker whacking MSU. The best part is when they list 3 complaints about Nassar in 17 years and say "The complaints these women raised weren't trivial, isolated or rare. They were telling the university one of its prized doctors, Larry Nassar, was a serial molester."

I'm sorry but when you're living it rather than writing about it in hindsight 3 complaints over 17 years is pretty isolated and rare.
I haven't really been keeping up with it, but it sounds like the local media (mainly Michigan print media) is trying to get as much mileage out of the Nassar story in all of it's horrifying detail as possible.

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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2018-04-12, 08:28

https://twitter.com/mattcharboneau/status/984210219185135616

At least Matt Charboneau is acting somewhat professional.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by LooseGoose on 2018-04-12, 08:39

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:MLive up with a lengthy new story that in my 1st reading contains exactly no new information.  A complete rehash highlight Merry Baker whacking MSU.   The best part is when they list 3 complaints about Nassar in 17 years and say "The complaints these women raised weren't trivial, isolated or rare. They were telling the university one of its prized doctors, Larry Nassar, was a serial molester."

I'm sorry but when you're living it rather than writing about it in hindsight 3 complaints over 17 years is pretty isolated and rare.
I haven't really been keeping up with it, but it sounds like the local media (mainly Michigan print media) is trying to get as much mileage out of the Nassar story in all of it's horrifying detail as possible.


Amazing, eh?   And while I'm not forgiving MSU for not following up on the complaints, anyone that has had employees knows that getting a complaint about an employee once every 6 years on average is not a bad record. Certainly not the sort of record of complaints that makes the employee stand out as terrible.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-04-12, 09:27

LooseGoose wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I haven't really been keeping up with it, but it sounds like the local media (mainly Michigan print media) is trying to get as much mileage out of the Nassar story in all of it's horrifying detail as possible.


Amazing, eh?   And while I'm not forgiving MSU for not following up on the complaints, anyone that has had employees knows that getting a complaint about an employee once every 6 years on average is not a bad record. Certainly not the sort of record of complaints that makes the employee stand out as terrible.
I hear ya.

at this point, I'm waiting for the LSJ, Freep, etc., heck, even ESPN, to tie some sort of fund-raising campaign to an MSU/Larry Nassar-related article..
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by LooseGoose on 2018-04-12, 09:48

Now the Freep is up with an article stating that MSU violated the woman's privacy in their response.

So a catch 22 - previously they were damning MSU for NOT responding and not providing detail.  

Also allegations of driving future victims away from services.


So I guess now that the lawsuit seems to have blown up they need something bludgeon MSU with.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by DWags on 2018-04-12, 10:24

Do we actually have a Jane Doe on campus? Is Jane Doe going to sue us? Why, if your name was Doe, would you give your child the name Jane? Or John? WFT is wrong with people. So, now we get sued for giving up the facts on tis Jane Doe. I've looked in the directories, but there is no Jane Doe listed.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by Floyd Robertson on 2018-04-12, 10:36

DWags wrote:Do we actually have a Jane Doe on campus? Is Jane Doe going to sue us? Why, if your name was Doe, would you give your child the name Jane? Or John? WFT is wrong with people. So, now we get sued for giving up the facts on tis Jane Doe. I've looked in the directories, but there is no Jane Doe listed.

I'm more concerned that they mentioned Delvon Roe.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by DWags on 2018-04-12, 10:40

Might have been Death Roe, he's been very quiet recently.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-04-12, 11:06

wonder who would win 1-on-1 between Delvon Roe and Dwayne Wade?

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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-04-12, 11:07

OTPT duh
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2018-04-12, 12:03

LooseGoose wrote:Now the Freep is up with an article stating that MSU violated the woman's privacy in their response.

So a catch 22 - previously they were damning MSU for NOT responding and not providing detail.  

Also allegations of driving future victims away from services.


So I guess now that the lawsuit seems to have blown up they need something bludgeon MSU with.
Conspiracy theorist Kathy Redmond among the experts they cited, apparently.

I haven't read it, but have seen some quotes. So according to these people, the fact that so many appropriate steps were taken, that she received counseling, that her advisor notified police even upon hearing a second hand reference about it, and that the police repeatedly tried to get in contact with her bout pursuing charges....this is all supposed to discourage victims from coming forward?

And how exactly do they get that MSU violated her rights to privacy by stating any of that? How does that identify her? And wouldn't that all come out in court anyway? This is the kind of thing that makes the lawsuits sound shady. They want to sue MSU, and release the lawsuit to the media, containing many specifics....but they don't want MSU to be able to respond countering those specifics. They want to claim a rape by basketball players, but won't name the basketball players, nor the victim, so that no one can defend themselves.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by NigelUno on 2018-04-12, 12:20

MiamiSpartan wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Now the Freep is up with an article stating that MSU violated the woman's privacy in their response.

So a catch 22 - previously they were damning MSU for NOT responding and not providing detail.  

Also allegations of driving future victims away from services.


So I guess now that the lawsuit seems to have blown up they need something bludgeon MSU with.
Conspiracy theorist Kathy Redmond among the experts they cited, apparently.

I haven't read it, but have seen some quotes. So according to these people, the fact that so many appropriate steps were taken, that she received counseling, that her advisor notified police even upon hearing a second hand reference about it, and that the police repeatedly tried to get in contact with her bout pursuing charges....this is all supposed to discourage victims from coming forward?

And how exactly do they get that MSU violated her rights to privacy by stating any of that? How does that identify her? And wouldn't that all come out in court anyway? This is the kind of thing that makes the lawsuits sound shady. They want to sue MSU, and release the lawsuit to the media, containing many specifics....but they don't want MSU to be able to respond countering those specifics. They want to claim a rape by basketball players, but won't name the basketball players, nor the victim, so that no one can defend themselves.

They didn't even name the counselors they were suing.

Not sure how that's even possible.


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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by LooseGoose on 2018-04-12, 12:24

NigelUno wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Conspiracy theorist Kathy Redmond among the experts they cited, apparently.

I haven't read it, but have seen some quotes. So according to these people, the fact that so many appropriate steps were taken, that she received counseling, that her advisor notified police even upon hearing a second hand reference about it, and that the police repeatedly tried to get in contact with her bout pursuing charges....this is all supposed to discourage victims from coming forward?

And how exactly do they get that MSU violated her rights to privacy by stating any of that? How does that identify her? And wouldn't that all come out in court anyway? This is the kind of thing that makes the lawsuits sound shady. They want to sue MSU, and release the lawsuit to the media, containing many specifics....but they don't want MSU to be able to respond countering those specifics. They want to claim a rape by basketball players, but won't name the basketball players, nor the victim, so that no one can defend themselves.

They didn't even name the counselors they were suing.

Not sure how that's even possible.


Quit blaming the victim for a shoddy lawsuit. Not a good look.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by NigelUno on 2018-04-12, 12:49

LooseGoose wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

They didn't even name the counselors they were suing.

Not sure how that's even possible.


Quit blaming the victim for a shoddy lawsuit. Not a good look.

Look at Goose! Stalking me on 2 sites today! Well done, Goose!

There may be a legal reason why the counselors were not named. I don't know.

I'm guessing the actual names would have to be added at some point.

Thanks for the follow!


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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by LooseGoose on 2018-04-12, 12:53

Now poor Nigie is the victim.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by NigelUno on 2018-04-12, 13:11

LooseGoose wrote:Now poor Nigie is the victim.

Poor Goose.

Says he's ignoring me...but, you know...isn't.

Thanks for the follow(s)!

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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2018-04-12, 13:11

Can we keep TOB drama over there? Thanks!
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by I.B. Fine on 2018-04-12, 13:26

NigelUno wrote:
They didn't even name the counselors they were suing.

Not sure how that's even possible.  


The names are irrelevant, they are suing 'the culture' at MSU. The counselors aren't paying any settlement.

I don't doubt this woman went through a terrible ordeal, emotionally traumatized, yet it would appear she was unwilling to take advantage of the help that was available.
The question, at least to me, is why not? did counselors actually tell her not to bother, or is that just how she heard their realistic explanation of what to expect?
Also, is this a situation unique to MSU?
I don't doubt that available counseling can be improved, and that should be a goal, but I also suspect it is no more of a unique problem at State than assault is. I hope this can be turned into an opportunity to take some leadership in addressing these issues universally.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by NigelUno on 2018-04-12, 14:13

I.B. Fine wrote:
NigelUno wrote:
They didn't even name the counselors they were suing.

Not sure how that's even possible.  


The names are irrelevant, they are suing 'the culture' at MSU. The counselors aren't paying any settlement.

I don't doubt this woman went through a terrible ordeal, emotionally traumatized, yet it would appear she was unwilling to take advantage of the help that was available.
The question, at least to me, is why not? did counselors actually tell her not to bother, or is that just how she heard their realistic explanation of what to expect?
Also, is this a situation unique to MSU?
I don't doubt that available counseling can be improved, and that should be a goal, but I also suspect it is no more of a unique problem at State than assault is. I hope this can be turned into an opportunity to take some leadership in addressing these issues universally.

You can't sue "the culture". Counselors would have to be named at some point (they're on the lawsuit).

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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by DWags on 2018-04-12, 14:23

Lawsuit is still going forward. We'll see all of this stuff out in open court. I was afraid that MSU would just settle. Didn't want that.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2018-04-12, 15:22

DWags wrote:Lawsuit is still going forward.   We'll see all of this stuff out in open court.  I was afraid that MSU would just settle.  Didn't want that.  
MSU's quick and thorough response yesterday, and a willingness to fight if a lawsuit doesn't seem justified, may discourage other questionable lawsuits.  Or at least have lawyers of potential accusers question their clients more thoroughly.

Come to think of it, maybe that's what Redmond and others in that Freep article were talking about with how this response will discourage others from coming forward.  That MSU will actually have documentation and counter false claims will definitely discourage more coming forward with false claims.  The truth of the claims are of no consequence to Redmond.  She's made that abundantly clear.  It's kind of ironic that for all Redmond's talk about bullying and intimidation against someone who comes forward, she does her damnedest to try to bully and intimidate people at MSU to try to stop them from defending themselves.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by LooseGoose on 2018-04-12, 19:56

Little late to not try things in the media.....

Paula Lavigne Verified account @pinepaula Follow Follow @pinepaula

In response to Michigan State’s statement Wednesday refuting the allegations of a current female student who is suing the school under Title IX, the student’s attorneys just released this statement:

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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by LooseGoose on 2018-04-12, 19:57

I wonder what they considered an "appropriate response"?? Handing the attorneys a blank check?
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2018-04-12, 20:37

Plaintiff releases lawsuit to the media.

Defendent releases statement to the media.

Plaintiff releases statement to the media acting offended that the defendent released a statement to the media, while claiming that they won't release any information to the media.

Good times.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on 2018-04-12, 20:44

MiamiSpartan wrote:Plaintiff releases lawsuit to the media.

Defendent releases statement to the media.

Plaintiff releases statement to the media acting offended that the defendent released a statement to the media, while claiming that they won't release any information to the media.

Good times.

It’s so 2018.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by CORNER BLITZ on 2018-04-12, 21:00

MiamiSpartan wrote:Plaintiff releases lawsuit to the media.

Defendent releases statement to the media.

Plaintiff releases statement to the media acting offended that the defendent released a statement to the media, while claiming that they won't release any information to the media.

Good times.

this
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by NigelUno on 2018-04-12, 21:56

Response to a lawsuit is "retaliation"?


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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by Cameron on 2018-04-12, 22:34

NigelUno wrote:Response to a lawsuit is "retaliation"?  

I believe the legal term is "answer," but that's not taking outrage into account...
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-04-13, 10:27

I'm not paying super close attention because I'm working but saw a tweet from the Board meeting that Engler acknowledged they violated privacy and regretted it in their statement they released? WTF? How are we still fucking this up?

I figured the attorneys were not concerned with privacy violations since the suit had been made public but guess not. Don't understand how this is still such a shit show.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by DWags on 2018-04-13, 10:34

Wish we had some kind of lawyer type here who could explain how we violated privacy to "Jane Doe". Her own attorney the day before put out the dates and times she was allegedly assaulted. People claim when MSU did it, you can somehow put together who this girl was by "talking to people".

Man, I couldn't be more confused on this.

And yes, I read the statement just released about "regretting privacy violations" or something like that. How is that possible. It's Jane Doe.


Last edited by DWags on 2018-04-13, 10:41; edited 1 time in total
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-04-13, 10:39

Just goes to show you we should all probably just shut up and take a step back, reconcile it when it's over. We don't really know jack shit, neither does the media, and neither do MSU's attorneys apparently.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by NigelUno on 2018-04-13, 10:51

DWags wrote:Wish we had some kind of lawyer type here who could explain how we violated privacy to "Jane Doe". Her own attorney the day before put out the dates and times she was allegedly assaulted. People claim when MSU did it, you can somehow put together who this girl was by "talking to people".

Many, I couldn't be more confused on this.

And yes, I read the statement just released about "regretting privacy violations" or something like that. How is that possible. It's Jane Doe.

Any pre-trial discovery (of evidence) procedure would have to include her name (even by her own attorney to get all records from MSU). So, any number of people will know her name. But, her name wasn't released in MSU's statement. Whether it was a privacy violation to release info prior to court seems like a deflection more than anything else...the info would come out in court. And her attorney released info which also could be considered a violation of her privacy.

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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by LooseGoose on 2018-04-13, 11:00

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'm not paying super close attention because I'm working but saw a tweet from the Board meeting that Engler acknowledged they violated privacy and regretted it in their statement they released? WTF? How are we still fucking this up?

I figured the attorneys were not concerned with privacy violations since the suit had been made public but guess not. Don't understand how this is still such a shit show.

That's not quite what Engler said.

The money quote is "which has been perceived by some as violating privacy expectations"

He never states that they DID violate privacy laws. He explicitly states they may have violated expectations, not laws.
It's a non apology, apology to tamp down some shit. And he gets to further state that it was all done in the spirit of
reassuring people that MSU WAS helping victims.

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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-04-13, 11:01

That's stupid Goose. They don't put the statement out if they didn't realize they fucked up. I argued about PR 2 days ago and people told me I was wrong. It was a fuck up.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by LooseGoose on 2018-04-13, 11:05

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:That's stupid Goose. They don't put the statement out if they didn't realize they fucked up. I argued about PR 2 days ago and people told me I was wrong. It was a fuck up.

I guess we can agree to disagree. I think it was a masterstroke in illustrating how MSU can't win with these people.

Don't answer and BSPN and others skewer you for hiding information.

Answer and they skewer you for giving too much detail even though you didn't identify anyone.

Anyone that doesn't see that now is willfully ignoring it.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by LooseGoose on 2018-04-13, 11:08

WBH? Did you see this statement from yesterday? Attorneys elsewhere were saying this woman is tops in her field:

From the Article:

Deb Gordon, a Michigan civil rights attorney who’s represented several clients in campus sexual assault suits, says MSU was likely responding to the negative coverage it received the last few days over the woman’s lawsuit.

“As a university, your reaction is properly to want to clear it up, so that your student body understands, no, this is not really the way it all went down, from what we’ve been able to figure out…I mean, how do you not do that if you’re a university, and you’re facing a lawsuit that says you just completely went the wrong way and harmed somebody, and then the media picks it up and runs with it?” Gordon asks.

“It’s a state university, and you want to assure the community and the taxpayers and your students, you know, no, this is not the way it occurred.”

Michigan State University is already facing intensive scrutiny over its mishandling of sexual assault cases, including the Larry Nassar case. In that atmosphere, Gordon says, the school can’t afford to wait to respond to these allegations in a legal filing of its own.

“I would not wait and hope that they read my answer to the complaint 28 days later, because that’s what’s going to happen,” Gordon says. “They’re going to take, you know, a good 28 days or more to answer this complaint in court. It will be filed electronically. The only way anybody can get it, unless a newspaper publishes it, is if they have access to the court’s e-filing system. So it’s just not that simple.”
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2018-04-13, 11:09

DWags wrote:Wish we had some kind of lawyer type here who could explain how we violated privacy to "Jane Doe". Her own attorney the day before put out the dates and times she was allegedly assaulted. People claim when MSU did it, you can somehow put together who this girl was by "talking to people".

Man, I couldn't be more confused on this.

And yes, I read the statement just released about "regretting privacy violations" or something like that. How is that possible. It's Jane Doe.
Just speculating here, but I can't imagine that it's that MSU released something that could identify her, but maybe it's that MSU released information on her treatment. Now, as long as she remains Jane Doe, that may not be an issue. But it's likely her name would be made public at some point, so the information on her treatment is therefore tied to her name, and it's all public.

But wouldn't her treatment come out in court, as well, or can that remain sealed or done behind closed doors? I don't know how the laws on that kind of stuff works.

But on the other hand, did MSU really give any info about her treatment? Is saying that she was handled appropriately and not discouraged from filing a Title IX complaint giving info on her treatment? Is saying that she was provided with group counseling and met with a sexual assault advocate giving info on her treatment?

I guess maybe, depending on how the laws are written exactly, but considering that she left that part out of the lawsuit, while saying that MSU offered no help at all, and also saying herself that she sought psychiatric treatment on her own at Sparrow, makes the complaint rather disingenuous. It would seem their real complaint is that the release of that information hurts her case and counters her claims more than anything else.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by steveschneider on 2018-04-13, 11:13

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Just goes to show you we should all probably just shut up and take a step back, reconcile it when it's over. We don't really know jack shit, neither does the media, and neither do MSU's attorneys apparently.

Words of wisdom. I'm pretty much down to #popsomepopcorn and watch it all unfold.

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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2018-04-13, 11:16

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:I'm so tired of all of this. Let me know how it all washes out. I'm done trying to figure out what is real and what is made up.

This is the correct course of action unless you are somehow involved with all of this.
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Re: There are some new allegations

Post by I.B. Fine on 2018-04-13, 11:48

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:I'm so tired of all of this. Let me know how it all washes out. I'm done trying to figure out what is real and what is made up.

This is the correct course of action unless you are somehow involved with all of this.
So, let me see if I've got this right, Pylon agrees completely with Pylon? scratch
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Re: There are some new allegations

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