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Post by Guest on 2018-05-22, 07:13

Since they moved the thread with my post in it to tBin I'm copying Cameron's reply here. There are things that could be done that would
pass politically. I don't know how much they would help, but they might. The publicity angle I think would be more of a long term solution.

The reward thing I think would work if they were to offer a fairly large sum for a conviction - it seems the 1st victim in Santa Fe was pretty
certain he wanted to shoot her.

I want to thank Rake and Cameron for reading it - and the rest of you might keep this post in mind the next time you're about to spew your BS that
"You don't support doing anything". This is much more detail than I've ever seen any of you post.

The one thing in the list that I know is under way is the stepped up prosecutions for failed background checks. I recall reading somewhere
that last year that was in the thousands which is obviously better than 62. One of the long time complaints of the NRA is that we don't enforce
the gun laws we have - why not do that before passing more?

Cameron wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:And for Cameron since he seems to sincerely want to talk - my list from yesterday.   As I said not polished or complete but at least a list of things that could be done politically that might help.
======================================
1) Encourage more people to say something.   Most of these shooters tip themselves off
long before they act.   Orlando, Parkland, San Bernadino, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech - all
could have been stopped.   Las Vegas is one where this would have not seemed to help
but I still believe the GF knew something bad was about to happen.  

Law enforcement can be more pro active without breaking the law.  When law enforcement
gets a tip they need to investigate.  Set up reward funds if it turns out that the authorities
uncover concrete planning for a killing.

2) Prosecute for breaking existing laws.  For example in 2010: There over 75,000 failed
background checks - 62 people were prosecuted.   That sucks.

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/05/lie-and-try-prohibited-gun-buying/

3) Get rid of gun free zones.  They accomplish nothing but disarming law abiding citizens.
A criminal laughs at them and they give the public a false sense of security.  Make any
possible shooter at least consider there might be an armed citizen present.

4) Allow school employees with proper training to carry.  As much as this is scoffed at
I believe just planting the uncertainty would help.   Having a sprinkling of armed teachers,
custodians, aides and administrators would stop shootings early and save lives.  It may
have just done so in Santa Fe.  It did do so in IL last week.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/16/dixon-illinois-school-resource-officer-thwarts-mass-shooting/615519002/

5) Allocate additional federal funding for mental health and pass laws allowing people to be
committed within guidelines for some limited period of treatment.  This ties back to #1.

6)  Ask the media to minimize the use of pictures/names for the killers.  Cover the crimes
all they want, talk about the tragedy but don't publicize the shooter more than necessary.

7) Bump stocks should go because they make a semi automatic fire too fast.  Machine
guns have been heavily regulated for decades, bump stocks should join them.

8) Expand background checks and eliminate the time limit.  According to Mother Jones most
of the guns used in mass killings were legally obtained so this might not do much.

9) If you're really serious about reducing homicides in the US then you start with handguns
since they're used in the vast majority of gun related killings.  And yes that includes some
of the worst mass killings.  Columbine, Virginia Tech, etc.

10) "Assault weapons" bans are bunk so don't waste political capital.   AR-15's aren't more lethal
than Grandpa's deer rifle no matter how many times that you read they are.  If you doubt me do
this - find an old hunter that's shot lots of game over the years.  Tell him he's about to be shot, but
he gets to choose the weapon used on him.  Choices are:

A) an AR-15 chambered in .223.  - the most common round for ARs
B)A Winchester Model 1894 chambered in 30-30 - along with the 30-.06 probably
C)A Remington 742 (circa 1960 or so) chambered in 30-.06 - the most popular deer round in MI.

I'll guarantee 90%+ will choose "A".   I don't care the yardage, 30-50-100 yards either
of those deer rounds are much more lethal.
This is a good post that deserves more thought than I can give it right now. I'm seeing a lot to agree with, though.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-22, 07:15

I'm against them.

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Post by Guest on 2018-05-22, 07:16

Could this have been what prompted the Santa Fe School shooting?

Report: Teen Victim Warned Her Family School Shooter Would ‘Come And Kill Her’

Shana’s grief-stricken dad Timothy Thomas, 41, told DailyMail.com in an exclusive interview that his daughter actually predicted that the trench coat-wearing loner was going to harm her.

‘Shana told her mother two weeks ago he was going to come and kill her,’ Thomas, a dad of five, said.

‘He had told her himself he was going to kill her. He was walking around planning this in his head for two weeks.

‘Shana said that if he came into the school with a gun and killed her she would haunt him for the rest of his life. She was really scared.’
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-22, 07:17

LooseGoose wrote:Could this have been what prompted the Santa Fe School shooting?

Report: Teen Victim Warned Her Family School Shooter Would ‘Come And Kill Her’

Shana’s grief-stricken dad Timothy Thomas, 41, told DailyMail.com in an exclusive interview that his daughter actually predicted that the trench coat-wearing loner was going to harm her.

‘Shana told her mother two weeks ago he was going to come and kill her,’ Thomas, a dad of five, said.

‘He had told her himself he was going to kill her. He was walking around planning this in his head for two weeks.

‘Shana said that if he came into the school with a gun and killed her she would haunt him for the rest of his life. She was really scared.’
thanks for the mainstream media link.

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Post by Guest on 2018-05-22, 07:23

This article talks about how difficult it is to get kids mental help. It concludes that because of this the problem is the guns. From the left that's a logical conclusion. Another take would be to make it easier to get mental health help for your child or anyone. Those laws can be changed too and probably without the political and cultural warfare that it would take to change gun laws.

Sort of a "The art of the possible" scenario. Warning: the article is too long and in depth for the people that are here to simply throw shit around.

The Futility of Trying to Prevent More School Shootings in America

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Post by Guest on 2018-05-22, 07:24

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Could this have been what prompted the Santa Fe School shooting?

Report: Teen Victim Warned Her Family School Shooter Would ‘Come And Kill Her’

thanks for the mainstream media link.


Bob?   HotAir isn't mainstream.   Ask your buddy Travis, it's one of those right wing sites that triggers him.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-22, 07:25

LooseGoose wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
thanks for the mainstream media link.


Bob?   HotAir isn't mainstream.   Ask your buddy Travis, it's one of those right wing sites that triggers him.
depends on how one defines "mainstream", I guess.

and we're free to post what we want here. Mass Shootings 969504605
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-22, 07:26

LooseGoose wrote:This article talks about how difficult it is to get kids mental help. It concludes that because of this the problem is the guns. From the left that's a logical conclusion. Another take would be to make it easier to get mental health help for your child or anyone. Those laws can be changed too and probably without the political and cultural warfare that it would take to change gun laws.

Sort of a "The art of the possible" scenario. Warning: the article is too long and in depth for the people that are here to simply throw shit around.

The Futility of Trying to Prevent More School Shootings in America

thanks for the mainstream media link.

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Post by Guest on 2018-05-22, 08:46

Interesting list.    I'll bet 90%+ of the deaths using guns are by handguns, yet they're barely a part of this conversation.   Why is that?

Mass Shootings Cdc10

Take a look at the raw data. According to statistics compiled by The Washington Post, 80 students died in shootings at elementary, middle and high schools from 2000 to 2016. That includes 11 students who committed suicide.

Considering there are more than 50 million schoolchildren, that makes homicide victims in schools vanishingly rare.

At home or on the streets is where the vast majority of school-age homicide victims meet their end. The CDC data show that during the same time period, a total of 34,227 children ages 5 to 18 died from gunfire. Suicides made up nearly a third of that total, 10,779. Accidental gun deaths accounted for another 1,694 deaths.

In fact, data amassed by the Chicago Sun-Times show that more children ages 5 to 18 became homicide victims in Chicago during 2016 alone — 113 — than perished in school shootings from 2000 through 2016 all across America.

But it is not only guns awaiting our progeny when they are not at school. The CDC statistics show children have died in much greater numbers due to a variety of more exotic causes of death. Some 8,555 drowned during that 17-year period. Of those, 155 were suicides. So more children intentionally drowned themselves than suffered fatal gunshots at school.

https://www.lifezette.com/polizette/relax-parents-the-safest-place-for-your-kids-is-still-school/
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-22, 08:48

LooseGoose wrote:Interesting list.    I'll bet 90%+ of the deaths using guns are by handguns, yet they're barely a part of this conversation.   Why is that?

Mass Shootings Cdc10

Take a look at the raw data. According to statistics compiled by The Washington Post, 80 students died in shootings at elementary, middle and high schools from 2000 to 2016. That includes 11 students who committed suicide.

Considering there are more than 50 million schoolchildren, that makes homicide victims in schools vanishingly rare.

At home or on the streets is where the vast majority of school-age homicide victims meet their end. The CDC data show that during the same time period, a total of 34,227 children ages 5 to 18 died from gunfire. Suicides made up nearly a third of that total, 10,779. Accidental gun deaths accounted for another 1,694 deaths.

In fact, data amassed by the Chicago Sun-Times show that more children ages 5 to 18 became homicide victims in Chicago during 2016 alone — 113 — than perished in school shootings from 2000 through 2016 all across America.

But it is not only guns awaiting our progeny when they are not at school. The CDC statistics show children have died in much greater numbers due to a variety of more exotic causes of death. Some 8,555 drowned during that 17-year period. Of those, 155 were suicides. So more children intentionally drowned themselves than suffered fatal gunshots at school.

https://www.lifezette.com/polizette/relax-parents-the-safest-place-for-your-kids-is-still-school/
because politicians and the mainstream media is in the pocket of the NRA - America's Terrorist Organization.

TRENCH COATS!!

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Post by Guest on 2018-05-22, 08:59

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Interesting list.    I'll bet 90%+ of the deaths using guns are by handguns, yet they're barely a part of this conversation.   Why is that?


because politicians and the mainstream media is in the pocket of the NRA - America's Terrorist Organization.

TRENCH COATS!!


The mean ol' turrible NRA doesn't stop the media from talking about AR15s - how are they stopping them from talking about handguns?

I really, really don't understand this. If you sincerely want to reduce deaths using guns wouldn't you go after the type of weapon used in the vast majority of gun deaths?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-22, 09:04

LooseGoose wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:

because politicians and the mainstream media is in the pocket of the NRA - America's Terrorist Organization.

TRENCH COATS!!


The mean ol' turrible NRA doesn't stop the media from talking about AR15s - how are they stopping them from talking about handguns?

I really, really don't understand this. If you sincerely want to reduce deaths using guns wouldn't you go after the type of weapon used in the vast majority of gun deaths?
preachin' to the choir, G - take all the guns.

of course, that isn't gonna happen - because "pro life" America is a blood-thirsty corporation that needs children to be murdered to maintain their relevance.

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Post by NigelUno on 2018-05-22, 11:13

LooseGoose wrote:Interesting list.    I'll bet 90%+ of the deaths using guns are by handguns, yet they're barely a part of this conversation.   Why is that?

Mass Shootings Cdc10

Take a look at the raw data. According to statistics compiled by The Washington Post, 80 students died in shootings at elementary, middle and high schools from 2000 to 2016. That includes 11 students who committed suicide.

Considering there are more than 50 million schoolchildren, that makes homicide victims in schools vanishingly rare.

At home or on the streets is where the vast majority of school-age homicide victims meet their end. The CDC data show that during the same time period, a total of 34,227 children ages 5 to 18 died from gunfire. Suicides made up nearly a third of that total, 10,779. Accidental gun deaths accounted for another 1,694 deaths.

In fact, data amassed by the Chicago Sun-Times show that more children ages 5 to 18 became homicide victims in Chicago during 2016 alone — 113 — than perished in school shootings from 2000 through 2016 all across America.

But it is not only guns awaiting our progeny when they are not at school. The CDC statistics show children have died in much greater numbers due to a variety of more exotic causes of death. Some 8,555 drowned during that 17-year period. Of those, 155 were suicides. So more children intentionally drowned themselves than suffered fatal gunshots at school.

https://www.lifezette.com/polizette/relax-parents-the-safest-place-for-your-kids-is-still-school/

Ummm...the title of the thread that you started is...

"Mass shootings"

And you're asking why handguns aren't a part of the conversation?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-22, 11:37

NigelUno wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Interesting list.    I'll bet 90%+ of the deaths using guns are by handguns, yet they're barely a part of this conversation.   Why is that?

Mass Shootings Cdc10



https://www.lifezette.com/polizette/relax-parents-the-safest-place-for-your-kids-is-still-school/

Ummm...the title of the thread that you started is...

"Mass shootings"

And you're asking why handguns aren't a part of the conversation?
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Post by Guest on 2018-05-22, 12:55

NigelUno wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Interesting list.    I'll bet 90%+ of the deaths using guns are by handguns, yet they're barely a part of this conversation.   Why is that?

Mass Shootings Cdc10



https://www.lifezette.com/polizette/relax-parents-the-safest-place-for-your-kids-is-still-school/

Ummm...the title of the thread that you started is...

"Mass shootings"

And you're asking why handguns aren't a part of the conversation?

Are you claiming they're not used in mass shootings?   Surely you've informed yourself better than that.   Columbine, Virginia Tech, Pulse, Santa Fe and many, many others?   Did you not see that handguns are actually used in the MAJORITY of mass killings?  

Or is it that you're denying the facts and data? Let me do the math for you, 94 of the 143 weapons used in mass killings in the US were handguns.

I'll post this chart once again for you -  and ask "Why are handguns not being discussed?"

Mass Shootings Weapon10

Snicker some more while you display your utter lack of knowledge.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-22, 12:59

LooseGoose wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Ummm...the title of the thread that you started is...

"Mass shootings"

And you're asking why handguns aren't a part of the conversation?

Are you claiming they're not used in mass shootings?   Surely you've informed yourself better than that.   Columbine, Virginia Tech, Pulse, Santa Fe and many, many others?   Did you not see that handguns are actually used in the MAJORITY of mass killings?  

Or is it that you're denying the facts and data? Let me do the math for you, 94 of the 143 weapons used in mass killings in the US were handguns.

I'll post this chart once again for you -  and ask "Why are handguns not being discussed?"

Mass Shootings Weapon10

Snicker some more while you display your utter lack of knowledge.
we should get rid of them.

see - there really isn't that much to discuss.

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Post by Guest on 2018-05-22, 13:42

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Are you claiming they're not used in mass shootings?   Surely you've informed yourself better than that.   Columbine, Virginia Tech, Pulse, Santa Fe and many, many others?   Did you not see that handguns are actually used in the MAJORITY of mass killings?  

Or is it that you're denying the facts and data? Let me do the math for you, 94 of the 143 weapons used in mass killings in the US were handguns.

I'll post this chart once again for you -  and ask "Why are handguns not being discussed?"

Mass Shootings Weapon10

Snicker some more while you display your utter lack of knowledge.
we should get rid of them.

see - there really isn't that much to discuss.


thanks for that straight answer.

Willing to speculate on why politicians that favor gun control prefer discussing rifles to handguns?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-22, 13:43

LooseGoose wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:we should get rid of them.

see - there really isn't that much to discuss.


thanks for that straight answer.

Willing to speculate on why politicians that favor gun control prefer discussing rifles to handguns?
no - other than that money talks a lot louder than dead children do.

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Post by Guest on 2018-05-24, 13:24

Well lookie here.....My old buddy David Hogg and I agree on something.

David Hogg @davidhogg111
I don’t know the shooters name and don’t want to. If you agree, anytime you see a post with their name or face from news organizations post #NoNotoriety with one of the victim's names. We make these sick people known worldwide for their horrifying acts, let’s stop that.

1:32 PM - May 20, 2018
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on 2018-05-24, 13:30

Agreeing with Hitler on something? Yikes - not a good look.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-24, 13:31

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Agreeing with Hitler on something? Yikes - not a good look.
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Post by Guest on 2018-05-24, 14:05

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Agreeing with Hitler on something? Yikes - not a good look.

I'm sorry for your suffering.
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Post by Guest on 2018-05-27, 14:34

Good guys with a gun.....and two good guys with guns.

Turns out the OKC shooter wasn’t stopped by a good guy with a gun — he was stopped by TWO good guys with guns

USA TODAY @USATODAY
After a man opened fire, shooting and injuring three people, inside Louie's Grill & Bar restaurant in Oklahoma City, two armed bystanders shot him dead in the parking lot. https://usat.ly/2kq8mBx
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2018-05-27, 20:50

Thanks for the mainstream media link.
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