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The big 8 health insurers made $16.6B in the first half of 2018

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The big 8 health insurers made $16.6B in the first half of 2018 Empty The big 8 health insurers made $16.6B in the first half of 2018

Post by Floyd Robertson Mon 13 Aug 2018 - 11:34

The big 8 insurers made $16.6B in the first half of 2018

Not to go all communist and shit, because I like capitalism and competition but when the average healthcare deductible is $5,000 it seems we need to either rein this in a bit or lower the damn deductibles so families aren't going broke.
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Post by Heat Miser Mon 13 Aug 2018 - 11:40

Funny thing is insurance itself is actually a form of socialism. Socialism is everywhere.
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Post by GRR Spartan Mon 13 Aug 2018 - 13:46

If Trump gets his way by privatizing some or all of the VA, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.
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Post by Floyd Robertson Mon 13 Aug 2018 - 13:57

Ha, talking about seeing nothing yet, if we go to a single payer system, aka "medicare for all" the federal government is going to swallow 12.7% of GDP. Good luck with that going smoothly.

The Fiscal Implausibility of Medicare for All
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Post by AvgMSUJoe Mon 13 Aug 2018 - 14:36

Floyd Robertson wrote:Ha, talking about seeing nothing yet, if we go to a single payer system, aka "medicare for all" the federal government is going to swallow 12.7% of GDP. Good luck with that going smoothly.

The Fiscal Implausibility of Medicare for All

Remember "the public option" republican's forced out of the final ACA?

Competition against an entity without the absurd profit % the insurance industry currently enjoys would have been a game changer....
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Post by GRR Spartan Mon 13 Aug 2018 - 15:19

Single payer option is too expensive while cutting revenues and greenlighting everything DoD and Homeland Security wants is okay for the fiscally responsible GOP.
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Post by AnomanderRake Tue 14 Aug 2018 - 0:21

Floyd Robertson wrote:Ha, talking about seeing nothing yet, if we go to a single payer system, aka "medicare for all" the federal government is going to swallow 12.7% of GDP. Good luck with that going smoothly.

The Fiscal Implausibility of Medicare for All

You seem to have left out the part where that very same study estimates a $2 trillion savings over 10 years in total health expenditures.

Everyone knows Universal Healthcare is a fiscally viable model, it's been proven all over the world. The main question at hand to me is "Are Americans willing to pay higher taxes/cut other spending in order to provide Healthcare for everyone?"
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Post by Rocinante Tue 14 Aug 2018 - 0:54

Floyd Robertson wrote:Ha, talking about seeing nothing yet, if we go to a single payer system, aka "medicare for all" the federal government is going to swallow 12.7% of GDP. Good luck with that going smoothly.

The Fiscal Implausibility of Medicare for All

That’s a crock of shit Floyd.

Think about the reapportionment of the money already being spent on healthcare. Yeah there’d be some losers, but they’d mostly be wealthy.

Fuck em.
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Post by Floyd Robertson Tue 14 Aug 2018 - 7:09

AnomanderRake wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:Ha, talking about seeing nothing yet, if we go to a single payer system, aka "medicare for all" the federal government is going to swallow 12.7% of GDP. Good luck with that going smoothly.

The Fiscal Implausibility of Medicare for All

You seem to have left out the part where that very same study estimates a $2 trillion savings over 10 years in total health expenditures.

Everyone knows Universal Healthcare is a fiscally viable model, it's been proven all over the world. The main question at hand to me is "Are Americans willing to pay higher taxes/cut other spending in order to provide Healthcare for everyone?"

I didn't point out a lot of things in that article, because there's a lot to absorb. Such as, part of the cost savings comes from near 100% adoption of generic drugs. Where's the incentive for pharmaceutical innovation, then? Which brings me back to the only thing I said: implementation of M4A won't go smoothly if adopted. Where in that statement was I advocating either for or against it?
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Post by Floyd Robertson Tue 14 Aug 2018 - 7:15

Rocinante wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:Ha, talking about seeing nothing yet, if we go to a single payer system, aka "medicare for all" the federal government is going to swallow 12.7% of GDP. Good luck with that going smoothly.

The Fiscal Implausibility of Medicare for All

That’s a crock of shit Floyd.

Think about the reapportionment of the money already being spent on healthcare. Yeah there’d be some losers, but they’d mostly be wealthy.

Fuck em.

I'm not so sure there won't be a lot of losers. There are hardly enough enough PCPs go around now. Faced with lower earnings assuming payment under the Medicare fee schedule and the CMS red tape under MACRA/MIPS, where is the incentive for going to school to become a doctor? We could all be waiting in line for months to see our PCP.
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Post by Rocinante Tue 14 Aug 2018 - 11:02

Floyd Robertson wrote:
Rocinante wrote:

That’s a crock of shit Floyd.

Think about the reapportionment of the money already being spent on healthcare. Yeah there’d be some losers, but they’d mostly be wealthy.

Fuck em.

I'm not so sure there won't be a lot of losers. There are hardly enough enough PCPs go around now. Faced with lower earnings assuming payment under the Medicare fee schedule and the CMS red tape under MACRA/MIPS, where is the incentive for going to school to become a doctor? We could all be waiting in line for months to see our PCP.

I think that's a false line of reasoning.  Drs. in the UK make what translates to about 120K a year out of medical school, and there is no shortage.  Drs. Here make about 50K more.  we could easily adjust that with something like education debt relief incentives.  People would still be making a great salary.
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Post by Floyd Robertson Tue 14 Aug 2018 - 11:11

Rocinante wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:

I'm not so sure there won't be a lot of losers. There are hardly enough enough PCPs go around now. Faced with lower earnings assuming payment under the Medicare fee schedule and the CMS red tape under MACRA/MIPS, where is the incentive for going to school to become a doctor? We could all be waiting in line for months to see our PCP.

I think that's a false line of reasoning.  Drs. in the UK make what translates to about 120K a year out of medical school, and there is no shortage.  Drs. Here make about 50K more.  we could easily adjust that with something like education debt relief incentives.  People would still be making a great salary.

That's an interesting idea, and maybe it would work. There's a gazillion debt-ridden college grads in other field that would like to jump on that right?
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Post by Rocinante Tue 14 Aug 2018 - 11:14

Floyd Robertson wrote:
AnomanderRake wrote:

You seem to have left out the part where that very same study estimates a $2 trillion savings over 10 years in total health expenditures.

Everyone knows Universal Healthcare is a fiscally viable model, it's been proven all over the world. The main question at hand to me is "Are Americans willing to pay higher taxes/cut other spending in order to provide Healthcare for everyone?"

I didn't point out a lot of things in that article, because there's a lot to absorb. Such as, part of the cost savings comes from near 100% adoption of generic drugs. Where's the incentive for pharmaceutical innovation, then? Which brings me back to the only thing I said: implementation of M4A won't go smoothly if adopted. Where in that statement was I advocating either for or against it?

Pharmaceutical innovation is another canard.

"On average, the 30 large and small pharmaceutical and biotech companies IDEA Pharma examined got just 11% of their 2017 revenue from drugs developed within the past five years...Take out Gilead and Biogen from the mix and the group average drops to 8.1%. Nineteen of these 30 companies, meanwhile, got less than 7% of sales in the last calendar year from “new” products."

http://fortune.com/2018/03/06/big-pharma-innovation-rut/

Also, basic discovery research is funded primarily by government (NIH and others) and by philanthropic organizations, late-stage development is funded mainly by pharmaceutical companies or venture capitalists.

Every time anyone suggest us implementing policies that will benefit the most people in fantastic ways, some market true believer always talks about stifling innovation or that nobody will become a doctor at such a "low" salary. They real motivation behind those arguments (lies) is to keep the gravy train to the ultra rich running. Most innovation is funded by our taxes. Drs. would still become Drs. if there were a slightly lower financial incentive.

Medicare for all needs to be fully embraced as a platform. National healthcare bitches. It's time.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano Tue 14 Aug 2018 - 11:30

in the wealthiest country in the world, there is no reason why citizens cannot have affordable access to basic healthcare.

except that it would cut into profits of the already-wealthy corporations.. and politicians just can't have that.

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Post by Heat Miser Tue 14 Aug 2018 - 11:39

Floyd Robertson wrote:
AnomanderRake wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:Ha, talking about seeing nothing yet, if we go to a single payer system, aka "medicare for all" the federal government is going to swallow 12.7% of GDP. Good luck with that going smoothly.

The Fiscal Implausibility of Medicare for All

You seem to have left out the part where that very same study estimates a $2 trillion savings over 10 years in total health expenditures.

Everyone knows Universal Healthcare is a fiscally viable model, it's been proven all over the world. The main question at hand to me is "Are Americans willing to pay higher taxes/cut other spending in order to provide Healthcare for everyone?"

I didn't point out a lot of things in that article, because there's a lot to absorb. Such as, part of the cost savings comes from near 100% adoption of generic drugs. Where's the incentive for pharmaceutical innovation, then? Which brings me back to the only thing I said: implementation of M4A won't go smoothly if adopted. Where in that statement was I advocating either for or against it?

Your implication is that we shouldn't do it because it "won't go smoothly". Implementation of most large scale projects don't go smoothly. That's not a reason for not doing them. Wars never go smoothly, but we've got no issues starting those on a regular basis. I'm sure the idiotic Space Farce won't go smoothly. I'd love to apply your logic to that shit show.

But no, it's healthcare that's too difficult. Not space stations or lasers that shoot down missiles. Healthcare. Rolling Eyes
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Post by AvgMSUJoe Tue 14 Aug 2018 - 15:03

hat's an interesting idea, and maybe it would work. There's a gazillion debt-ridden college grads in other field that would like to jump o

OR god forbid... stop higher ed from remodeling every building every year and actually lower costs....

MSU is unrecognizable every 10 years or so... what other industry enjoys that level of capital investment?
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Post by Trapper Gus Mon 21 Nov 2022 - 11:03

The big 8 health insurers made $16.6B in the first half of 2018 Screen67

In 1973 President Nixon, a Republican, signed a bill that allowed "for profit" businesses in health care.

In the 1980's President Reagan stop the enforcement of Anti-Trust Law.

The graph shows what happened.

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Post by Turtleneck Mon 21 Nov 2022 - 14:31

Well, the problem in America is that 56% of the population eats straight lard for breakfast.
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Post by Motown Spartan Mon 21 Nov 2022 - 15:29

Turtleneck wrote:Well, the problem in America is that 56% of the population eats straight lard for breakfast.

Let’s not be hyperbolic now, it’s 69%.
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Post by Trapper Gus Mon 21 Nov 2022 - 15:36

I just have coffee for breakfast, does that count?

Floyd Robertson wrote:Ha, talking about seeing nothing yet, if we go to a single payer system, aka "medicare for all" the federal government is going to swallow 12.7% of GDP. Good luck with that going smoothly.

The Fiscal Implausibility of Medicare for All

Or maybe not. tNYT September 5th 2023

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/09/05/upshot/medicare-budget-threat-receded.html

The big 8 health insurers made $16.6B in the first half of 2018 Scree182

Wonder what happened in 2010?  Obamacare?

That budgetary good news isn’t all good news for people with Medicare. Reductions in heart attacks and strokes have had big benefits for public health, but the paucity of major medical breakthroughs has been accompanied by slowing improvements in life expectancy for seniors. The cost containment strategies in hospitals may mean patients have been denied the treatments of their choice.

This also affects the budgetary condition of Social Security and the SSA predictions on it as they have kept predicting longer life expectancy than has occurred for the past 20 years and have had to adjust to reality every year.

But Medicare’s spending is unlikely to disappear as a concern for the budget and policymakers. An aging population means the number of Americans relying on the program is growing rapidly. And analysts continue to worry that the trend is an aberration, and that some new development — an effective Alzheimer’s drug, a cultural turn away from cost cutting, the health burden of long Covid or some other chronic condition — will return Medicare spending to form. The Congressional Budget Office, which has lowered its forecasts repeatedly during the period in the face of lower spending, continues to expect growth to tick up again soon.

File the CBO estimates as insanity.  They keep predicting higher spending that isn't happening.


Last edited by Trapper Gus on Fri 22 Sep 2023 - 20:00; edited 1 time in total
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Post by steveschneider Mon 21 Nov 2022 - 15:49

This is why Amazon is getting into healthcare it’s an area for growth. They are launching Amazon Pharmacy as well.
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Post by Turtleneck Mon 21 Nov 2022 - 16:27

Trapper Gus wrote:I just have coffee for break fast, does that count?

Black or do you commit crimes against humanity by adding stuff to it?
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Post by Cameron Mon 21 Nov 2022 - 22:01

He adds lard to it, obviously.
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