Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

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Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2018-09-15, 22:34

He did what Saban thought was impossible. Hell, most of us thought it was impossible, too.

There is no one else I'd rather have coaching MSU football.

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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by InTenSity on 2018-09-15, 22:34

What happened?
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2018-09-15, 22:38

Dantonio built a winner here. Saban said he couldn't do it even though he already was well on his way. We all know it was really about money though.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2018-09-15, 22:38

Dantonio failed to win again today, so people are dreaming of greener pastures (with a certain amount of tongue in cheek, I'm sure).
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2018-09-15, 22:43

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Dantonio built a winner here. Saban said he couldn't do it even though he already was well on his way. We all know it was really about money though.
We weren't on our way. He built a team, not a program.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-09-15, 22:57

I totally agree. No one I would rather have coaching MSU, even Lombardi himself.

That said I'm legit worried we will lose to Indiana. This team has some injury issues, some depth issues at important positions and will improve a ton as the year goes on but I'm not sure we're gonna get there during the bye week. I won't care if we lose but people are gonna freak the fuck out.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by tGreenWay on 2018-09-16, 00:36

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I totally agree. No one I would rather have coaching MSU, even Lombardi himself.

That said I'm legit worried we will lose to Indiana. This team has some injury issues, some depth issues at important positions and will improve a ton as the year goes on but I'm not sure we're gonna get there during the bye week. I won't care if we lose but people are gonna freak the fuck out.

Stoops doesn’t post here anymore so I doubt you’d see much of a freak out. Generally speaking, we old folk have seen a lot of bad seasons to let any one game get to us anymore.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-09-16, 00:42

I think it's a HUGE swing game. If we win it, we have a legit chance to go 10-2 and outside chance at 11-1. If not we're staring 4/5 losses in the face. Don't ask me to explain. It makes sense to me right now. Just roll with. it.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by tGreenWay on 2018-09-16, 00:49

No way I’m challenging a word you said. You’re too fired up tonight.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-09-16, 01:08

I'm on edge GW. Had a rough couple of months. Not really. All is good in the world but I got some minor frustrations yo.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-09-16, 01:09

Oh and go fuck yourself you bitch ass motherbitcher.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by tGreenWay on 2018-09-16, 01:28

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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2018-09-16, 08:44

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Dantonio built a winner here. Saban said he couldn't do it even though he already was well on his way. We all know it was really about money though.
We weren't on our way.  He built a team, not a program.  

I disagree eleventy billion percent. That '99 team had some serious talent on it and there was plenty coming back. Bobby Williams fumble fucked everything away.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-09-16, 09:20

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
We weren't on our way.  He built a team, not a program.  

I disagree eleventy billion percent. That '99 team had some serious talent on it and there was plenty coming back. Bobby Williams fumble fucked everything away.

I think you're right. Probably is with Bama right now as well. He's got a system in place right now where the players have no voice. You do it his way or you sit and the next guy takes your place. And Saban isn't afraid to do it because the next guy ain't hardly a drop off. It's not like he's replacing an all american with some kid from Alpena. The players wanted a players coach because Saban was hard on them. They wanted a softie and got their way. I'd be willing to bet if you put a "players" coach in at Alabama you'd see a big drop off there. Saban has the perfect coaching style for the college game.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by steveschneider on 2018-09-16, 09:43

Mark Dantonio as a person is one of the few football coaches I actually look up to. Much better human being than Nick Saban. He’s a great Spartan and happy to have him representing our university.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by Nordic on 2018-09-16, 10:52

Booorrrinnngggg

But we ain't losing to Indiana WBH
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-09-16, 11:01

What do you make the spread? I'll guess MSU -4
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by kingstonlake on 2018-09-16, 11:26

I'd say MSU -6
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2018-09-16, 12:09

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
We weren't on our way.  He built a team, not a program.  

I disagree eleventy billion percent. That '99 team had some serious talent on it and there was plenty coming back. Bobby Williams fumble fucked everything away.
I don't see it. Just because BW sucked doesn't mean we had a 10 win team. We had 7 players drafted in the 2000 draft, plus Burke and others that were not drafted.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by Nordic on 2018-09-16, 15:02

kingstonlake wrote:I'd say MSU -6

that is my guess
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-09-16, 16:40

It is MSU -4.5 to open
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by Nordic on 2018-09-16, 17:43

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:It is MSU -4.5 to open

Nordicbook opens it at

-#skullfuck
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2018-09-17, 08:52

From bettheboardpodcast.com. Lines supposedly taken from betonline.ag:

*Michigan State opened 6.5-point road favorites, but were bet down to 3.5 within an hour of opening. This will be a huge road test for the Spartans, as Indiana is sure to be rocking for this night game.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2018-09-17, 09:09

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

I disagree eleventy billion percent. That '99 team had some serious talent on it and there was plenty coming back. Bobby Williams fumble fucked everything away.
I don't see it. Just because BW sucked doesn't mean we had a 10 win team. We had 7 players drafted in the 2000 draft, plus Burke and others that were not drafted.

So you're saying if Nick Saban stayed at MSU he would have had pretty much the same success as Bobby fucking Williams from 2000 until I guess to the point where he got fired? I simply can't see any scenario where Saban performs that poorly.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2018-09-17, 09:26

Nordic wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:It is MSU -4.5 to open

Nordicbook opens it at

-#skullfuck

I like Nordic's optimism. Not sure if I'm buying it myself but CMD has earned a ton of leeway.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by DWags on 2018-09-17, 09:40

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:From bettheboardpodcast.com. Lines supposedly taken from betonline.ag:

*Michigan State opened 6.5-point road favorites, but were bet down to 3.5 within an hour of opening. This will be a huge road test for the Spartans, as Indiana is sure to be rocking for this night game.


It will be as quiet as a morgue in that pos stadium beginning of the second half.

35-14 Spartans.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2018-09-17, 11:45

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
I don't see it. Just because BW sucked doesn't mean we had a 10 win team. We had 7 players drafted in the 2000 draft, plus Burke and others that were not drafted.

So you're saying if Nick Saban stayed at MSU he would have had pretty much the same success as Bobby fucking Williams from 2000 until I guess to the point where he got fired? I simply can't see any scenario where Saban performs that poorly.
Jesus, nice straw man. So if I say that we wouldn't have won 10 games in 2000 with Saban, then I must be saying that we would have won only 5, 7, and 4 in the next 3 years? Cause there's nowhere in between that it could have gone? Rolling Eyes
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on 2018-09-17, 13:18

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

So you're saying if Nick Saban stayed at MSU he would have had pretty much the same success as Bobby fucking Williams from 2000 until I guess to the point where he got fired? I simply can't see any scenario where Saban performs that poorly.
Jesus, nice straw man.  So if I say that we wouldn't have won 10 games in 2000 with Saban, then I must be saying that we would have won only 5, 7, and 4 in the next 3 years?  Cause there's nowhere in between that it could have gone?  Rolling Eyes

That's what I'm trying to figure out. You're not leaving yourself much wiggle room here. My original point was that he was well on his way to building the program back up. It was left in a bad place after Perles. 9 wins a year in my opinion would have been an amazing turn around.

Are you saying that he'd only win on average 7 or 8 games a year from 2000 on? Even that seems a bit of a stretch. We're talking about someone who many regard already as the greatest college football coach of all time. To think that he would have only had a middling career at MSU seems a bit absurd. Sure we have never had the recruiting pipelines like at LSU or Alabama, but talent was coming in.

Dantonio's and Saban's coaching styles are apples and oranges but I'm quite confident Saban's style would have worked pretty damn well here if he wanted to stay. He saw a bigger payday, and if we're being honest an "easier" path to wins in the SEC. Easier being an administration more dedicated to sports through funneling money into facilities and looking the other way in regards to recruiting.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

Post by MiamiSpartan on 2018-09-17, 15:08

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Jesus, nice straw man.  So if I say that we wouldn't have won 10 games in 2000 with Saban, then I must be saying that we would have won only 5, 7, and 4 in the next 3 years?  Cause there's nowhere in between that it could have gone?  Rolling Eyes

That's what I'm trying to figure out. You're not leaving yourself much wiggle room here. My original point was that he was well on his way to building the program back up. It was left in a bad place after Perles. 9 wins a year in my opinion would have been an amazing turn around.

Are you saying that he'd only win on average 7 or 8 games a year from 2000 on? Even that seems a bit of a stretch. We're talking about someone who many regard already as the greatest college football coach of all time. To think that he would have only had a middling career at MSU seems a bit absurd. Sure we have never had the recruiting pipelines like at LSU or Alabama, but talent was coming in.

Dantonio's and Saban's coaching styles are apples and oranges but I'm quite confident Saban's style would have worked pretty damn well here if he wanted to stay. He saw a bigger payday, and if we're being honest an "easier" path to wins in the SEC. Easier being an administration more dedicated to sports through funneling money into facilities and looking the other way in regards to recruiting.
I wasn't looking for wiggle room, but I think there's quite a bit of difference between a 9-10 win seasons and the unquestionable failure of the BW regime.

If you want to try to nail me down to a number, then yeah, 7-8 wins per season sounds about right, cylcing up or down on occasion. Talent was coming in? Ok talent. TJ Duckett and Charles Rogers were outliers (both in-state, one was a legacy, and one was Prop 48). Other than that, the talent coming in was similar to what we used to get before then and have gotten since. We weren't getting UM/ND/OSU level talent coming in. And to me, that's the thing. Saban excels at getting elite players to play elite. That's not easy with egos, pressure, etc. Lots of great coaches can't do that. I'm not sure that Dantonio can (his highest rated recruits haven't always lived up to expectations). But does Saban really coach up teams very well? I can't really think of many times that he out kicked his coverage, so to speak.
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Re: Forget Nick Saban, Derrick Mason, and PJ Fleck. Can we keep Mark Dantonio?

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