Coach D presser at 5:45 today

LooseGoose wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Any offensive player we’ve had, wasn’t probably told about how we planned on scoring 6-14 points all year - and accept it. Should be great for the kids’ NFL chances.

So the offense was stocked with NFL talent and sucked? Put your Mike Mayock cap on and tell which player is projected into what round? I'll give you Felton for late 1st/early second before the Achilles....who would be the next player drafted? LJ? Maybe in the 4th or 5th? And we didn't have him for most of the year? Lewerke? 6th or later or undrafted. And those 3 were all - injured.

Now you take it from there.

Using players’ draft stocks that have been stuck in an shitty offensive system for 3 years. Rich.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

Who in this thread said Dantonio needs to go?

I’m not sure anyone, Kingston.

lol, so now you're both going to say that even though you think he's too old, loyal, out of touch etc, etc, to keep up with CFB that you think we should keep him anyway?

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

So the offense was stocked with NFL talent and sucked? Put your Mike Mayock cap on and tell which player is projected into what round? I'll give you Felton for late 1st/early second before the Achilles....who would be the next player drafted? LJ? Maybe in the 4th or 5th? And we didn't have him for most of the year? Lewerke? 6th or later or undrafted. And those 3 were all - injured.

Now you take it from there.

Using players’ draft stocks that have been stuck in an shitty offensive system for 3 years. Rich.

Nice evasion. In other words there is no other NFL talent stuck in the system.

For all of those on the fence about Salem, keep in mind Salem led Augustana College to back-to-back 8-4 records and consecutive trips to the Mineral Water Bowl in 2008-09. The eight wins matched the school single-season record. In its first two seasons as members of the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference, Augustana finished fourth and tied for third, respectively, in the final standings and had 10 players earn South Division first-team all-conference honors.

LooseGoose wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

I’m not sure anyone, Kingston.

lol, so now you're both going to say that even though you think he's too old, loyal, out of touch etc, etc, to keep up with CFB that you think we should keep him anyway?

Will someone say they want Dantonio out so goose’s posts make sense? Someone? No?

kingstonlake wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Blind loyalty?  Again, Ted Gill and Dan Roushar?  Demoting Warner today?  Loyal, yes.  Blindly loyal, obviously not.

Why the last 3 years?  Dude, you're like a politician picking a timeline that tells the story you want to tell.  What about 17-9 the last 2 years versus 15-11 the previous 2 years?  That shows we're on upward trend!  

I didn't cite 3 years, I cited 6.  Anyone would say six years is a fair time frame to evaluate a coach and staff.  Full credit for 35-6, full accountability for 20-18.  Nobody was fired for the offense trending in the lower half of college football for the last three years.  You think that shit flies at any school aspiring to be anything more than a Capital one bowl invite?  If you're happy with the moves thats fine, no big deal.  I think he is to loyal.  Warner and Bollman should have been fired, not told to get new employee ID's.  How many games are they gonna win next year?  7?  Maybe 8?  I hope Tread, Salem or whomever is a great move.  I hope they average 35 a game. It doesn't change that Bollman and Warner should be gone.

No, you "conveniently" took the last 3 years (2 of which were down years), and compared them to the three before that which happened to be the three best years in half a century. Again, why not the last 4 instead of the last 6?

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:


lol, so now you're both going to say that even though you think he's too old, loyal, out of touch etc, etc, to keep up with CFB that you think we should keep him anyway?

Will someone say they want Dantonio out so goose’s posts make sense? Someone? No?

How's that NFL talent scouting going?

Shouldn't you be turning that against me? This staff can't evaluate recruits and should therefore be fired? Which side will you land on?

That they can recruit but can't coach? Or that they can't recruit so it wouldn't matter if they could coach?

My simple and obvious point on the firing which you're doing your level best to studiously avoid is this: If you think Dantonio is sinking the program by his unwillingness to fire current assistants and hire new ones - then it should be a given that you want him out, to be replaced by a more forward thinking fellow. Deny, obfuscate, act mystified all you want - but that's the simple truth.

LooseGoose wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

I’m not sure anyone, Kingston.

lol, so now you're both going to say that even though you think he's too old, loyal, out of touch etc, etc, to keep up with CFB that you think we should keep him anyway?

Never said he was to old
I've said he's to loyal (not even remotely a hot take)
Never said he's out of touch
He great with a defense (his background)
Admitted he's not good with offense (not his background)

It's not crazy talk to think maybe the offensive side of the ball isn't his strong suit at this point in his career. And maybe recognizing really coaching in that side of the ball isn't either. It's possible to be really good at one thing and not the other.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

I didn't cite 3 years, I cited 6.  Anyone would say six years is a fair time frame to evaluate a coach and staff.  Full credit for 35-6, full accountability for 20-18.  Nobody was fired for the offense trending in the lower half of college football for the last three years.  You think that shit flies at any school aspiring to be anything more than a Capital one bowl invite?  If you're happy with the moves thats fine, no big deal.  I think he is to loyal.  Warner and Bollman should have been fired, not told to get new employee ID's.  How many games are they gonna win next year?  7?  Maybe 8?  I hope Tread, Salem or whomever is a great move.  I hope they average 35 a game. It doesn't change that Bollman and Warner should be gone.

No, you "conveniently" took the last 3 years (2 of which were down years), and compared them to the three before that which happened to be the three best years in half a century. Again, why not the last 4 instead of the last 6?

How ever you want to clutch your pearls is up to you bro. We live in the here and now. Those were great years. Those players aren't here anymore. 126th out of 132 in points scored. 2 touchdowns against Rutgers in their last 4 games. I enjoy Dantonios tenure as much as anyone. I'm just not stuck in 2012.

OTPT - "I'm not calling for his firing, I'm just going to incessantly mock the best coach in school history with a proven track record of success because the changes that needed to be made were so obvious to ME, the all-knowing internet poster"

That's an awfully strong position to take. Enjoy your mocking.

I think a big part of the line here between the asshole fans and the others are that at least the rest of us have the self realization to understand that we don't know jack shit.

If you have that self realization and want to continue to mock, well I mean you're no better than the rest of 'em. But enjoy.

LooseGoose wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Will someone say they want Dantonio out so goose’s posts make sense? Someone? No?

How's that NFL talent scouting going?

Shouldn't you be turning that against me? This staff can't evaluate recruits and should therefore be fired? Which side will you land on?

That they can recruit but can't coach? Or that they can't recruit so it wouldn't matter if they could coach?

My simple and obvious point on the firing which you're doing your level best to studiously avoid is this: If you think Dantonio is sinking the program by his unwillingness to fire current assistants and hire new ones - then it should be a given that you want him out, to be replaced by a more forward thinking fellow. Deny, obfuscate, act mystified all you want - but that's the simple truth.

Wow, that's a whole lot of made up bullshit.

kingstonlake wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

How's that NFL talent scouting going?

Shouldn't you be turning that against me? This staff can't evaluate recruits and should therefore be fired? Which side will you land on?

That they can recruit but can't coach? Or that they can't recruit so it wouldn't matter if they could coach?

My simple and obvious point on the firing which you're doing your level best to studiously avoid is this: If you think Dantonio is sinking the program by his unwillingness to fire current assistants and hire new ones - then it should be a given that you want him out, to be replaced by a more forward thinking fellow. Deny, obfuscate, act mystified all you want - but that's the simple truth.

Wow, that's a whole lot of made up bullshit.

So you vehemently disagree with his staff philosophy and decisions but want to keep him anyway.

OK. Gotcha.

Honestly, my biggest issue with all of this is having a fucking press conference about it. I don’t know jackshit compared to all of these coaches but what a PR/recruiting nightmare. Say what you want about media coverage, built in advantages - but we didn’t do ourselves any favors today.

Add that with Dantonio referencing we held Oregon to 7 points(while scoring 6) and saying some programs celebrate 7-6, not a good look for MSU football today.

kingstonlake wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
No, you "conveniently" took the last 3 years (2 of which were down years), and compared them to the three before that which happened to be the three best years in half a century. Again, why not the last 4 instead of the last 6?

How ever you want to clutch your pearls is up to you bro. We live in the here and now. Those were great years. Those players aren't here anymore. 126th out of 132 in points scored. 2 touchdowns against Rutgers in their last 4 games. I enjoy Dantonios tenure as much as anyone. I'm just not stuck in 2012.

Wait, what? I'm bringing up more recent years than you. Lol, do you even know what you're arguing anymore?

Kingston: If you look at the last 6 years....

Me: Why not look at the last 4 years?

Kingston: Quit living in the past, bro.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Honestly, my biggest issue with all of this is having a fucking press conference about it. I don’t know jackshit compared to all of these coaches but what a PR/recruiting nightmare. Say what you want about media coverage, built in advantages - but we didn’t do ourselves any favors today.

Add that with Dantonio referencing we held Oregon to 7 points(while scoring 6) and saying some programs celebrate 7-6, not a good look for MSU football today.

I don't really think it matters. Was anyone outside of MSU alums and the Detroit/Lansing/GR markets even watching or caring? There were a couple of tweets from national writer types but those guys jerk themselves off in an echo chamber. Who cares really. I don't think the level of fervor about our lack of productivity on Offense was a blip on anyone's radar outside of the alumni/fanbase and our immediate surroundings.

LooseGoose wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

Wow, that's a whole lot of made up bullshit.

So you vehemently disagree with his staff philosophy and decisions but want to keep him anyway.

OK. Gotcha.

Don't be so dense. I said he is exceptional on one side of the ball. I said he isn't on the other. If you covert that into me thinking he should be fired you're dense. You are aware there are coaches who have the same predicament and are willing to find a guy who handles the side of the ball they might consider a weakness, right?

If anybody can understand the idea of staff turnover or firing people and seeing the good in it, I'd think you would.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Honestly, my biggest issue with all of this is having a fucking press conference about it. I don’t know jackshit compared to all of these coaches but what a PR/recruiting nightmare. Say what you want about media coverage, built in advantages - but we didn’t do ourselves any favors today.

Add that with Dantonio referencing we held Oregon to 7 points(while scoring 6) and saying some programs celebrate 7-6, not a good look for MSU football today.

Sweet, let's just jump all over a partial quote. Context be damned!

MiamiSpartan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

How ever you want to clutch your pearls is up to you bro. We live in the here and now. Those were great years. Those players aren't here anymore. 126th out of 132 in points scored. 2 touchdowns against Rutgers in their last 4 games. I enjoy Dantonios tenure as much as anyone. I'm just not stuck in 2012.

Wait, what? I'm bringing up more recent years than you. Lol, do you even know what you're arguing anymore?

Kingston: If you look at the last 6 years....

Me: Why not look at the last 4 years?

Kingston: Quit living in the past, bro.

You really want to compare 17-9 vs 15-11? Go for it. Can't wait.

steveschneider wrote:Bring in Wayne Fontes and have him teach Dantonio the run and shoot offense.

Gonna need Mouse Davis for this as well. Wayne and Mouse as co-oc's. Provided either one of them is still alive.

Honestly I'm pretty irritated at our fanbase. I guess I'm more disappointed in them than irritated. All fanbases are bad. "fanatics", I get it. I'm so used to being subjected to the idiocy of the M fans and how fucking godawful they are. And believe me, they are. Especially the non alumni.

But I imagine part of this move, whether actually needed or not (and again, if you claim to know, I think you're giving yourself way too much credit) was necessary because of the trash out there from the fanbase. From the Fuck Dave Warner twitter accounts to the vitriol on the message boards and talk radio (Valenti I understand has been driving this for awhile). I mean it has to get to Warner. I know it has gotten to him. His wife was clapping back at people on Twitter.

When you consider the possibility (real or imagined) that this is actually NOT HIS FAULT and yet he's got these anonymous imbeciles shouting him down and telling him to fuck off and die and hope he gets fired and blah blah blah....well that isn't healthy for the program, the HC, or certainly for the OC.

I don't think coach is making decisions worthy of the paycheck and, moreover, the value that winning is to the university. It seems more personal and in-house I don't think that is a good thing. But it is his perogative in his position (and virtually NO AD).

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Honestly, my biggest issue with all of this is having a fucking press conference about it. I don’t know jackshit compared to all of these coaches but what a PR/recruiting nightmare. Say what you want about media coverage, built in advantages - but we didn’t do ourselves any favors today.

Add that with Dantonio referencing we held Oregon to 7 points(while scoring 6) and saying some programs celebrate 7-6, not a good look for MSU football today.

I don't really think it matters. Was anyone outside of MSU alums and the Detroit/Lansing/GR markets even watching or caring? There were a couple of tweets from national writer types but those guys jerk themselves off in an echo chamber. Who cares really. I don't think the level of fervor about our lack of productivity on Offense was a blip on anyone's radar outside of the alumni/fanbase and our immediate surroundings.

Michigan fans care.

[tw]1083492020537229313[/tw]

Nordic wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

I don't really think it matters. Was anyone outside of MSU alums and the Detroit/Lansing/GR markets even watching or caring? There were a couple of tweets from national writer types but those guys jerk themselves off in an echo chamber. Who cares really. I don't think the level of fervor about our lack of productivity on Offense was a blip on anyone's radar outside of the alumni/fanbase and our immediate surroundings.

Michigan fans care.

[tw]1083492020537229313[/tw]

I did not Photoshop this. I promise.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Nordic wrote:

Michigan fans care.

[tw]1083492020537229313[/tw]

I did not Photoshop this. I promise.

Fuck you guys, I thought we were supposed to keep identities private.

Shit did we just out Vlad?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Honestly I'm pretty irritated at our fanbase. I guess I'm more disappointed in them than irritated. All fanbases are bad. "fanatics", I get it. I'm so used to being subjected to the idiocy of the M fans and how fucking godawful they are. And believe me, they are. Especially the non alumni.

But I imagine part of this move, whether actually needed or not (and again, if you claim to know, I think you're giving yourself way too much credit) was necessary because of the trash out there from the fanbase. From the Fuck Dave Warner twitter accounts to the vitriol on the message boards and talk radio (Valenti I understand has been driving this for awhile). I mean it has to get to Warner. I know it has gotten to him. His wife was clapping back at people on Twitter.

When you consider the possibility (real or imagined) that this is actually NOT HIS FAULT and yet he's got these anonymous imbeciles shouting him down and telling him to fuck off and die and hope he gets fired and blah blah blah....well that isn't healthy for the program, the HC, or certainly for the OC.

I agree. As I mentioned earlier when I saw people melting down all over twitter during the national championship game on twitter about Dave warner it just struck me as pathetic. Its a hateful mob. People that upset about their team and the struggles should probably watch the Steve Bartman documentary and realize they are behaving poorly towards an individual.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Honestly I'm pretty irritated at our fanbase. I guess I'm more disappointed in them than irritated. All fanbases are bad. "fanatics", I get it. I'm so used to being subjected to the idiocy of the M fans and how fucking godawful they are. And believe me, they are. Especially the non alumni.

But I imagine part of this move, whether actually needed or not (and again, if you claim to know, I think you're giving yourself way too much credit) was necessary because of the trash out there from the fanbase. From the Fuck Dave Warner twitter accounts to the vitriol on the message boards and talk radio (Valenti I understand has been driving this for awhile). I mean it has to get to Warner. I know it has gotten to him. His wife was clapping back at people on Twitter.

When you consider the possibility (real or imagined) that this is actually NOT HIS FAULT and yet he's got these anonymous imbeciles shouting him down and telling him to fuck off and die and hope he gets fired and blah blah blah....well that isn't healthy for the program, the HC, or certainly for the OC.

People wanted changes and still aren't happy

kingstonlake wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Wait, what? I'm bringing up more recent years than you. Lol, do you even know what you're arguing anymore?

Kingston: If you look at the last 6 years....

Me: Why not look at the last 4 years?

Kingston: Quit living in the past, bro.

You really want to compare 17-9 vs 15-11? Go for it. Can't wait.

17-9 is better than 15-11. Thats the comparison.
And it is meaningless without context, just like looking at the bottom line numbers for the last 6 years, the last 10 years, the last 20 years, etc. But the larger point, which I know you know, is that you were selecting an arbitrary time period that fit your argument.

But whatever, just going in circles at this point.

aualum06 wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Honestly I'm pretty irritated at our fanbase. I guess I'm more disappointed in them than irritated. All fanbases are bad. "fanatics", I get it. I'm so used to being subjected to the idiocy of the M fans and how fucking godawful they are. And believe me, they are. Especially the non alumni.

But I imagine part of this move, whether actually needed or not (and again, if you claim to know, I think you're giving yourself way too much credit) was necessary because of the trash out there from the fanbase. From the Fuck Dave Warner twitter accounts to the vitriol on the message boards and talk radio (Valenti I understand has been driving this for awhile). I mean it has to get to Warner. I know it has gotten to him. His wife was clapping back at people on Twitter.

When you consider the possibility (real or imagined) that this is actually NOT HIS FAULT and yet he's got these anonymous imbeciles shouting him down and telling him to fuck off and die and hope he gets fired and blah blah blah....well that isn't healthy for the program, the HC, or certainly for the OC.

People wanted changes and still aren't happy

Oh...I guess I didn't realize. My bad.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

aualum06 wrote:

People wanted changes and still aren't happy

Oh...I guess I didn't realize. My bad.

Might have came off wrong I was agreeing with you

I see. Yeah, I guess I agree. Apparently they wanted to hire Utah State or some shit's OC and then would have been happy.

It's funny, Comp mentioned that every single play that Clemson ran on Monday Night was in our playbook and something we ran often.

The mouth breathers responded that maybe but there's a time and a place and jet sweep short side of the field etc.

Then some football Xs and Os guy responded you realize there is a direct intent to running plays to the short side of the field and it does blah blah to the field corner and sets up blah blah blah later in the game

And the mouth breathers responded yeah but the 128th ranked Offense!!!

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I see. Yeah, I guess I agree. Apparently they wanted to hire Utah State or some shit's OC and then would have been happy.

It's funny, Comp mentioned that every single play that Clemson ran on Monday Night was in our playbook and something we ran often.

The mouth breathers responded that maybe but there's a time and a place and jet sweep short side of the field etc.

Then some football Xs and Os guy responded you realize there is a direct intent to running plays to the short side of the field and it does blah blah to the field corner and sets up blah blah blah later in the game

And the mouth breathers responded yeah but the 128th ranked Offense!!!

Results.

Yep. 10-3 in 2017 with a healthy team. Agreed.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Yep. 10-3 in 2017 with a healthy team. Agreed.

Maybe Dantonio saw through that. Otherwise he just demoted Warner over injuries.

kingstonlake wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Yep. 10-3 in 2017 with a healthy team. Agreed.

Maybe Dantonio saw through that. Otherwise he just demoted Warner over injuries.

Nope. Not at all what he did. See Post #140 above.

Also, credit where credit is due to the mouth breathers. Sometimes you need to make a change for the sake of making a change. Coach D knows the Offense runs in his vision and will continue to run in his vision. He probably figures that he needs to change his approach slightly and working with a different OC will help him do that.

Classic Coach D only cares if his team scores more points than the other team. It did in 2017, thus it was a successful season. It didn't this year. But he knows his guys are good coaches, the same coaches that helped the program to historic highs. So let's keep them but try to shuffle to their strengths a little and see how it goes.

OH MY THE OUTRAGE HOW DARE HE

Don't forget to credit the apologist as well. If you shuffle the same deck enough times everyone will get a chance to be the OC.  Maybe one of them will stick. I disagree with Valenti 90% of the time but I agree with him on this one. To many people look at him as a diety. Best coach in my lifetime. Not even a debate. But you must evolve. You'd better be damn sure you have an elite defense and no injuries on offense if your want to sustain "just one more point" than the opponent philosophy. We just saw what an elite defense can do with injuries on offense. Its hard to sustain. 7-5... That's a razor thin line for success.

kingstonlake wrote:Don't forget to credit the apologist as well. If you shuffle the same deck enough times everyone will get a chance to be the OC.  Maybe one of them will stick. I disagree with Valenti 90% of the time but I agree with him on this one. To many people look at him as a diety. Best coach in my lifetime. Not even a debate. But you must evolve. You'd better be damn sure you have an elite defense and no injuries on offense if your want to sustain "just one more point" than the opponent philosophy. We just saw what an elite defense can do with injuries on offense. Its hard to sustain. 7-5... That's a razor thin line for success.

We've always had a razor thin line for success.

This thread is all kinds of stupid.

tGreenWay wrote:This thread is all kinds of stupid.

Thanks for the observation Pythagoras .

LooseGoose wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:This thread is all kinds of stupid.

Thanks for the observation Pythagoras .

I’m really more one... with the words.