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This team is soft

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Post by steveschneider 12/4/2019, 12:13 am

Duke showed up and flat out kicked our fucking ass on Draymond Green night. The sophomores are turning into a huge disappointment and they need to start figuring shit out fast. These guys look malnourished, timid and terrified of the big moment. Time to hit the gym and start eating your Wheaties. Only good moment was Tom getting the T and mouthing fuck you to the ref. Those punks deserved it.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That 12/4/2019, 12:17 am

Thought the refs were equally bad both ways. Not as bad as the team looks. We all fell for the preseason rankings. As fans, that will happen.
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Post by Cameron 12/4/2019, 12:20 am

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Thought the refs were equally bad both ways. Not as bad as the team looks. We all fell for the preseason rankings. As fans, that will happen.

Equally bad both ways? Are you having a "very fine people on both sides" moment right now? Bilas called out multiple egregious missed calls, and every single one he called out went against us (Loyer getting stomped on, missed goaltending, guy shoving Ahrens off. Any I'm missing?). I'm not saying there weren't bad calls against Duke, but to assert that it was equal is asinine.
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Post by steveschneider 12/4/2019, 12:31 am

Cameron wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Thought the refs were equally bad both ways. Not as bad as the team looks. We all fell for the preseason rankings. As fans, that will happen.

Equally bad both ways? Are you having a "very fine people on both sides" moment right now? Bilas called out multiple egregious missed calls, and every single one he called out went against us (Loyer getting stomped on, missed goaltending, guy shoving Ahrens off. Any I'm missing?). I'm not saying there weren't bad calls against Duke, but to assert that it was equal is asinine.

I repeat the best part of the game was when tom got t’d up and it looked like to me he mouthed fuck you to the ref. Those guys were a disgrace. Duke still kicked our ass and our team is bad but proud of tom for calling out that horse shit.
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Post by steveschneider 12/4/2019, 12:35 am

Also, dukes preppy white boys man handled our team tonight. Has this team put on the football pads and done war drills? Fuck the refs but when it was straight up ball they kicked our ass.


Last edited by steveschneider on 12/4/2019, 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That 12/4/2019, 12:43 am

Cameron wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Thought the refs were equally bad both ways. Not as bad as the team looks. We all fell for the preseason rankings. As fans, that will happen.

Equally bad both ways? Are you having a "very fine people on both sides" moment right now? Bilas called out multiple egregious missed calls, and every single one he called out went against us (Loyer getting stomped on, missed goaltending, guy shoving Ahrens off. Any I'm missing?). I'm not saying there weren't bad calls against Duke, but to assert that it was equal is asinine.

MSU was in the double bonus very early. At this point college refs are bad. Both teams play with the same refs. Just my opinion, man.
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Post by NigelUno 12/4/2019, 12:49 am

Not enough pump fakes.
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Post by DWags 12/4/2019, 1:58 am

I don’t see enough three point positions with the ball. Dribble pass shoot.
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Post by kingstonlake 12/4/2019, 7:28 am

Very much agree, Steve.
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Post by steveschneider 12/4/2019, 7:45 am

Looking at the stats we had more fg, 3pt and ft attempts than duke. Gotta start hitting those friggin shots. Seeing too many good looks at the basket result in bricks.
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Post by Nordic 12/4/2019, 8:10 am

steveschneider wrote:Looking at the stats we had more fg, 3pt and ft attempts than duke. Gotta start hitting those friggin shots. Seeing too many good looks at the basket result in bricks.

Somewhat disagree. Obviously we are shooting for shit. We also have a lot of bad shots going up. Our ball movement is not at the level it was last year. Not even close. The extra pass has been our strength the last two years. It is not happening right now. The Bingham 3 from Cash and Hall was a good example. Need way more of that. Also started to see the extra pass in the paint in the 2nd half with Tillman and Hall. Tillman looked like himself for the first time all year. The Cash dish to Kithier was awesome. We need way more of this. With our outside shooting woes, it needs to be our game. Penetrate, dish and make extra pass. Too much one pass and shoot right now.
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Post by steveschneider 12/4/2019, 8:47 am

Nordic wrote:
steveschneider wrote:Looking at the stats we had more fg, 3pt and ft attempts than duke. Gotta start hitting those friggin shots. Seeing too many good looks at the basket result in bricks.

Somewhat disagree. Obviously we are shooting for shit. We also have a lot of bad shots going up. Our ball movement is not at the level it was last year. Not even close. The extra pass has been our strength the last two years. It is not happening right now. The Bingham 3 from Cash and Hall was a good example. Need way more of that. Also started to see the extra pass in the paint in the 2nd half with Tillman and Hall. Tillman looked like himself for the first time all year. The Cash dish to Kithier was awesome. We need way more of this. With our outside shooting woes, it needs to be our game. Penetrate, dish and make extra pass. Too much one pass and shoot right now.

Yeah, the whole pass into ward and kick it back out thing is missing too. You are right last year the extra pass was a thing of beauty. I’m mostly recalling good wide open looks in the second half though I think Bingham had one, Brown and I forget who else and it was all iron. Also, tip of the hat to coach k for calling a time out every time we started to roll. I thought he successfully broke up our momentum and we looked flat after them. Definitely looking forward to the easier portion of the schedule so this team can work on a few things and figure a few things out.
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Post by NigelUno 12/4/2019, 9:02 am

steveschneider wrote:
Nordic wrote:

Somewhat disagree. Obviously we are shooting for shit. We also have a lot of bad shots going up. Our ball movement is not at the level it was last year. Not even close. The extra pass has been our strength the last two years. It is not happening right now. The Bingham 3 from Cash and Hall was a good example. Need way more of that. Also started to see the extra pass in the paint in the 2nd half with Tillman and Hall. Tillman looked like himself for the first time all year. The Cash dish to Kithier was awesome. We need way more of this. With our outside shooting woes, it needs to be our game. Penetrate, dish and make extra pass. Too much one pass and shoot right now.

Yeah, the whole pass into ward and kick it back out thing is missing too...

Wish Ward was still around.

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Post by steveschneider 12/4/2019, 9:44 am

NigelUno wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

Yeah, the whole pass into ward and kick it back out thing is missing too...

Wish Ward was still around.


Yeah, he would create opportunities for other guys, put up 13-18 points and we could have used him against Carey.
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Post by NigelUno 12/4/2019, 9:51 am

steveschneider wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Wish Ward was still around.


Yeah, he would create opportunities for other guys, put up 13-18 points and we could have used him against Carey.

Anyone who thought we wouldn't miss him was nuts.

And ideas of Henry going pro after this year can get shut down for awhile.
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Post by steveschneider 12/4/2019, 12:09 pm

Looking ahead we have
Rutgers
Oakland
Northwestern
Eastern
Western Michigan

Some great opportunities to fine tune a few things and push for some player development. Also, a great opportunity for a five game win streak.
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Post by Cameron 12/4/2019, 12:27 pm

I think Carey would have eaten Ward's lunch. And I don't think Ward was exactly a boon to our ball movement.
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Post by steveschneider 12/4/2019, 1:38 pm

Cameron wrote:I think Carey would have eaten Ward's lunch. And I don't think Ward was exactly a boon to our ball movement.

I'll let Nigel pick this one up.
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Post by DWags 12/4/2019, 2:31 pm

Who’s fault was it that we didn’t land Carey? Nigel or Travis?

Somebody needs to take some heat for last night and I’m not doing it.
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Post by kingstonlake 12/4/2019, 2:49 pm

Cameron wrote:I think Carey would have eaten Ward's lunch. And I don't think Ward was exactly a boon to our ball movement.

Agree
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Post by NigelUno 12/4/2019, 2:57 pm

Cameron wrote:I think Carey would have eaten Ward's lunch. And I don't think Ward was exactly a boon to our ball movement.

Yeah. Our ball movement is so much better now.

I can see how having a low post scoring option, or just another scoring option would have been bad last night.

I'll take it you're in the addition by subtraction club with Ward.

The team would be better with him. Period.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That 12/4/2019, 2:57 pm

DWags wrote:Who’s fault was it that we didn’t land Carey? Nigel or Travis?

Somebody needs to take some heat for last night and I’m not doing it.

We have a better chance at both taking responsibility than neither taking responsibility.
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Post by NigelUno 12/4/2019, 2:57 pm

DWags wrote:Who’s fault was it that we didn’t land Carey? Nigel or Travis?

Somebody needs to take some heat for last night and I’m not doing it.

Krewzuhwooski's fault.
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Post by NigelUno 12/4/2019, 2:58 pm

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
DWags wrote:Who’s fault was it that we didn’t land Carey? Nigel or Travis?

Somebody needs to take some heat for last night and I’m not doing it.

We have a better chance at both taking responsibility than neither taking responsibility.

You should take responsibility for starting a shitty game thread.
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Post by Nordic 12/4/2019, 3:20 pm

NigelUno wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

We have a better chance at both taking responsibility than neither taking responsibility.

You should take responsibility for starting a shitty game thread.

He has a point....
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Post by AvgMSUJoe 12/4/2019, 3:36 pm

Goins was a man on help D down low. He also made Tillman better on O. McQuaid was lock down on the guards and they had to respect his shot. Missing those two greatly.

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Post by DWags 12/4/2019, 3:45 pm

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Goins was a man on help D down low. He also made Tillman better on O. McQuaid was lock down on the guards and they had to respect his shot. Missing those two greatly.


And that’s the point. You just cant teach the pink dicks the nuances of Izzo’s defense in a month. Not a year really. They’ll be better in March. It’s been a wild month. Travel tragedies and heart ache.

We’ll be fine. Third seed. Playing in the EE for a shot. But when the guys see the film, they’ll see they were bullied. Time to stand and deliver. Hopefully we see Duke again.
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Post by tGreenWay 12/4/2019, 3:57 pm

DWags wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:Goins was a man on help D down low. He also made Tillman better on O. McQuaid was lock down on the guards and they had to respect his shot. Missing those two greatly.


And that’s the point. You just cant teach the pink dicks the nuances of Izzo’s defense in a month. Not a year really. They’ll be better in March. It’s been a wild month. Travel tragedies and heart ache.

We’ll be fine. Third seed. Playing in the EE for a shot. But when the guys see the film, they’ll see they were bullied. Time to stand and deliver. Hopefully we see Duke again.


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Post by GRR Spartan 12/4/2019, 4:36 pm

Put a healthy Langford as a scorer and lockdown defensive presence in the starting group and Hauser as the first player off the bench and this team was in a better position to meet pre-season expectations.

I disagree with the team being soft. What Duke did do was show Tillman wasn't prepared for double teams. My guess is Tillman is going to have a some specific ball protection drills he'll be doing for the rest of the season.

Duke was the team of bullyboys and MSU's players were the punching bags because they didn't knock some of the Duke players on their asses. Back in the day Antonio Smith, Peterson, Anagonye, Naymick, Costello and Bridges could be the bad cops and after the Dukies got away with being physical with no repercussions.
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Post by Nordic 12/4/2019, 5:23 pm

DWags wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:Goins was a man on help D down low. He also made Tillman better on O. McQuaid was lock down on the guards and they had to respect his shot. Missing those two greatly.


And that’s the point. You just cant teach the pink dicks the nuances of Izzo’s defense in a month. Not a year really. They’ll be better in March. It’s been a wild month. Travel tragedies and heart ache.

We’ll be fine. Third seed. Playing in the EE for a shot. But when the guys see the film, they’ll see they were bullied. Time to stand and deliver. Hopefully we see Duke again.

This guy fucks
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Post by Nordic 12/4/2019, 5:26 pm

GRR Spartan wrote:Put a healthy Langford as a scorer and lockdown defensive presence in the starting group and Hauser as the first player off the bench and this team was in a better position to meet pre-season expectations.

I disagree with the team being soft.  What Duke did do was show Tillman wasn't prepared for double teams.  My guess is Tillman is going to have a some specific ball protection drills he'll be doing for the rest of the season.

Duke was the team of bullyboys and MSU's players were the punching bags because they didn't knock some of the Duke players on their asses.  Back in the day Antonio Smith, Peterson, Anagonye, Naymick, Costello and Bridges could be the bad cops and after the Dukies got away with being physical with no repercussions.

Those guys aren't walking through the door...neither is Carey...or Ward. Been a lot of "if we only had" posts lately. I really only GAF about the guys in the lineup (when it comes to this season, not personally).
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Post by DWags 12/4/2019, 6:19 pm

I'm also watching Izzo. 25 years as head coach. almost half my life. Probably Wakes whole life and OTPT's whole life or damn close. What coach keeps a job that long if they're not a genius at what they do.

I don't think we're playing great defense or protecting the ball right now. If you had to pick one coach who could straighten that shit out by March, and you got to pick any coach in America, who would you pick. Bias aside, a shit ton of people would choose Izzo.

I' aint scared. Pissed? Sure, bummed? absolutely. I also fell for the whole "#1 thing." We aren't. We're top 15 and a 3 seed who I wouldn't want to play in the tournament.
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Post by steveschneider 12/4/2019, 6:35 pm

DWags wrote:I'm also watching Izzo. 25 years as head coach. almost half my life. Probably Wakes whole life and OTPT's whole life or damn close. What coach keeps a job that long if they're not a genius at what they do.

I don't think we're playing great defense or protecting the ball right now. If you had to pick one coach who could straighten that shit out by March, and you got to pick any coach in America, who would you pick. Bias aside, a shit ton of people would choose Izzo.

I' aint scared. Pissed? Sure, bummed? absolutely. I also fell for the whole "#1 thing." We aren't. We're top 15 and a 3 seed who I wouldn't want to play in the tournament.

I mean if I have choice of anyone I might pick Popovich or maybe Kerr. Izzo would be damn near the top of the list though. I think Roy Williams is another guy that can get his team rolling late in the season just about as well as anyone. To your point we are in good hands.
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Post by Cameron 12/4/2019, 7:52 pm

NigelUno wrote:
Cameron wrote:I think Carey would have eaten Ward's lunch. And I don't think Ward was exactly a boon to our ball movement.

Yeah. Our ball movement is so much better now.

I can see how having a low post scoring option, or just another scoring option would have been bad last night.

I'll take it you're in the addition by subtraction club with Ward.

The team would be better with him. Period.

Our ball movement is worse now because Goins and McQuaid are gone, not because Ward is gone.
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Post by NigelUno 12/4/2019, 8:19 pm

Cameron wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Yeah. Our ball movement is so much better now.

I can see how having a low post scoring option, or just another scoring option would have been bad last night.

I'll take it you're in the addition by subtraction club with Ward.

The team would be better with him. Period.

Our ball movement is worse now because Goins and McQuaid are gone, not because Ward is gone.

Yeah. You kind of skipped over the scoring option thing.

Remember how Ward used to sprint down the floor for fast break buckets? Seems like that would have helped last night too.

But...you know...we're so loaded with bigs...probably couldn't use him...

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Post by kingstonlake 12/4/2019, 8:36 pm

Cameron wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Yeah. Our ball movement is so much better now.

I can see how having a low post scoring option, or just another scoring option would have been bad last night.

I'll take it you're in the addition by subtraction club with Ward.

The team would be better with him. Period.

Our ball movement is worse now because Goins and McQuaid are gone, not because Ward is gone.

Exactly. And even with Ward gone we out scored Duke on points in the paint. You’d think people would be smart enough to realize that.
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Post by Cameron 12/4/2019, 10:51 pm

NigelUno wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Our ball movement is worse now because Goins and McQuaid are gone, not because Ward is gone.

Yeah. You kind of skipped over the scoring option thing.

Remember how Ward used to sprint down the floor for fast break buckets? Seems like that would have helped last night too.

But...you know...we're so loaded with bigs...probably couldn't use him...


Defense was much more our problem than offense, and I was never impressed by Ward's defense. We definitely had turnover issues, but what else is new? Ward had his share of those as well. I'm not saying he was a worthless player, but I don't think it's reasonable to assert that we even come close to winning that game with Ward in the mix.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That 12/4/2019, 11:10 pm

Put me down for missing ward. We don’t really have a back to the basket player, do we? All of our bigs seem like garbage man type players. Tillman could get there but ward was polished down there man. Pretty.
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Post by NigelUno 12/4/2019, 11:12 pm

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Our ball movement is worse now because Goins and McQuaid are gone, not because Ward is gone.

Exactly. And even with Ward gone we out scored Duke on points in the paint. You’d think people would be smart enough to realize that.

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Ward would start.  I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that.

Maybe not.

And we outscored Duke in the paint? Huh. I'd guess you're not counting all the Free Throws Carey shot after we fouled him in the paint, right? This team is soft  502811600


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Post by NigelUno 12/4/2019, 11:14 pm

Cameron wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Yeah. You kind of skipped over the scoring option thing.

Remember how Ward used to sprint down the floor for fast break buckets? Seems like that would have helped last night too.

But...you know...we're so loaded with bigs...probably couldn't use him...


Defense was much more our problem than offense, and I was never impressed by Ward's defense. We definitely had turnover issues, but what else is new? Ward had his share of those as well. I'm not saying he was a worthless player, but I don't think it's reasonable to assert that we even come close to winning that game with Ward in the mix.

You seem to be moving the goal posts a bit.

We would be a better team with him. Period.
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