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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-01-22, 10:21

Banks2Mason wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:anyone else think the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator and his GOP/Putin-sponsored enablers might try to cancel the election in November?


no chance. the only thing trump has ever "won" in his life is the 2016 election. no chance he doesn't try to do it again. his whole presidency has essentially been an extended victory tour
I don't think/know that it will happen.

but I'm just suspicious of a party whose entire existence is rooted in crime and corruption.. the only way they can be held accountable is at the voting booth. Granted, they have Putin, the mainstream media, Facebook, etc. on their side to continue to manipulate an ignorant electorate. However, I do wonder at some point if they'll seriously consider a way to simply cancel the election.

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Post by Rocinante on 2020-01-22, 11:39

NigelUno wrote:Why are Dems so hesitant to do a straight up Hunter Biden/Bolton witness trade?

Are they trying to protect it from somehow hurting Joe Biden?

Haven't followed it closely, but I'm guessing Hunter got paid a lot of money for influence (or potential influence). While not illegal necessarily, it just exposes the reality of politics. Would that really harm Joe Biden that much?

I guess Bolton will talk eventually (on a book tour)?


Where did you hear this was an option?
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Post by NigelUno on 2020-01-22, 11:57

Rocinante wrote:
NigelUno wrote:Why are Dems so hesitant to do a straight up Hunter Biden/Bolton witness trade?

Are they trying to protect it from somehow hurting Joe Biden?

Haven't followed it closely, but I'm guessing Hunter got paid a lot of money for influence (or potential influence). While not illegal necessarily, it just exposes the reality of politics. Would that really harm Joe Biden that much?

I guess Bolton will talk eventually (on a book tour)?


Where did you hear this was an option?

Bob told me.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-01-22, 11:58

NigelUno wrote:
Rocinante wrote:

Where did you hear this was an option?

Bob told me.
Is this one different? 502811600
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Post by DWags on 2020-01-22, 12:15

NigelUno wrote:
Rocinante wrote:

Where did you hear this was an option?

Bob told me.

fucking Bob!
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Post by Banks2Mason on 2020-01-22, 13:35

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Banks2Mason wrote:

no chance. the only thing trump has ever "won" in his life is the 2016 election. no chance he doesn't try to do it again. his whole presidency has essentially been an extended victory tour
I don't think/know that it will happen.

but I'm just suspicious of a party whose entire existence is rooted in crime and corruption.. the only way they can be held accountable is at the voting booth. Granted, they have Putin, the mainstream media, Facebook, etc. on their side to continue to manipulate an ignorant electorate. However, I do wonder at some point if they'll seriously consider a way to simply cancel the election.


canceling a presidential election would essentially require a full blown, military-aided coup of several levels of government. i'd like to think that can't happen even in this environment.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-01-22, 14:17

How Trump Has Exposed Congress’ Self-inflicted Weaknesses

There was an alternative path that House Democrats could have pursued that would have asserted their rightful powers. They should have moved to compel Trump’s compliance with their information requests by using the third branch of government: the judiciary. By sleeping on Congress’ legal right to information bearing on impeachment, House Democrats failed to enforce the impeachment prerogative in the Constitution itself. The result is a feckless arm of presidential oversight and a message to future presidents that the Constitution’s impeachment clauses are unenforceable and therefore meaningless.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-01-22, 14:30

Banks2Mason wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: I don't think/know that it will happen.

but I'm just suspicious of a party whose entire existence is rooted in crime and corruption.. the only way they can be held accountable is at the voting booth. Granted, they have Putin, the mainstream media, Facebook, etc. on their side to continue to manipulate an ignorant electorate. However, I do wonder at some point if they'll seriously consider a way to simply cancel the election.


canceling a presidential election would essentially require a full blown, military-aided coup of several levels of government. i'd like to think that can't happen even in this environment.
while I agree with you, I didn't think the entire Republican party would line up behind a racist, bigoted christian sexual predator whose level of corruption and unabashed crime is shimmering in the light for all to see while they continue to enable him, despite their sworn oath to not only preserving and defending the Constitution but to the protection of democracy.
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Post by Rocinante on 2020-01-22, 19:21

Whenever someone uses the word “feckless” you know they’re smart.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-01-22, 21:08

NigelUno wrote:Why are Dems so hesitant to do a straight up Hunter Biden/Bolton witness trade?

Are they trying to protect it from somehow hurting Joe Biden?

Haven't followed it closely, but I'm guessing Hunter got paid a lot of money for influence (or potential influence). While not illegal necessarily, it just exposes the reality of politics. Would that really harm Joe Biden that much?

I guess Bolton will talk eventually (on a book tour)?

If someone robs a guy who is facing a DUI charge, can you ask the guy about his DUI charge? No, it is irrelevant to the case being tried.

What the Bidens did/didn't do are irrelevant to the case. He could be guilty of murdering hookers on the Burisma boardroom table, and it doesn't change the fact that Trump used his office to pressure Ukraine to pretend to investigate him for his own political purposes. Having Hunter Biden testify at the trial accomplishes the same goal.
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Post by NigelUno on 2020-01-22, 21:10

MiamiSpartan wrote:
NigelUno wrote:Why are Dems so hesitant to do a straight up Hunter Biden/Bolton witness trade?

Are they trying to protect it from somehow hurting Joe Biden?

Haven't followed it closely, but I'm guessing Hunter got paid a lot of money for influence (or potential influence). While not illegal necessarily, it just exposes the reality of politics. Would that really harm Joe Biden that much?

I guess Bolton will talk eventually (on a book tour)?

If someone robs a guy who is facing a DUI charge, can you ask the guy about his DUI charge? No, it is irrelevant to the case being tried.

What the Bidens did/didn't do are irrelevant to the case. He could be guilty of murdering hookers on the Burisma boardroom table, and it doesn't change the fact that Trump used his office to pressure Ukraine to pretend to investigate him for his own political purposes. Having Hunter Biden testify at the trial accomplishes the same goal.

Yes. It is irrelevant...and that can be pointed out. So...why not do it if they agree to let Bolton testify in exchange?
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Post by Cameron on 2020-01-22, 22:21

NigelUno wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
If someone robs a guy who is facing a DUI charge, can you ask the guy about his DUI charge? No, it is irrelevant to the case being tried.

What the Bidens did/didn't do are irrelevant to the case. He could be guilty of murdering hookers on the Burisma boardroom table, and it doesn't change the fact that Trump used his office to pressure Ukraine to pretend to investigate him for his own political purposes. Having Hunter Biden testify at the trial accomplishes the same goal.

Yes. It is irrelevant...and that can be pointed out. So...why not do it if they agree to let Bolton testify in exchange?

Pragmatically speaking, it might be the right move.

If one were to take a principled stand, though (which I think is worth doing since they're fighting a losing battle anyway), one ought to reject out of hand the bad faith negotiating tactic of demanding an irrelevant witness be called for each relevant witness to be allowed.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-01-22, 23:46

NigelUno wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
If someone robs a guy who is facing a DUI charge, can you ask the guy about his DUI charge? No, it is irrelevant to the case being tried.

What the Bidens did/didn't do are irrelevant to the case. He could be guilty of murdering hookers on the Burisma boardroom table, and it doesn't change the fact that Trump used his office to pressure Ukraine to pretend to investigate him for his own political purposes. Having Hunter Biden testify at the trial accomplishes the same goal.

Yes. It is irrelevant...and that can be pointed out. So...why not do it if they agree to let Bolton testify in exchange?
Guess you didn't read the rest of my post. Having him testify has the same effect as if Ukraine had announced an investigation into him (even if they never conducted an investigation). Both would give ammo for Trump against Biden. He could be completely innocent, but the Republicans could lead him with certain questions, twist what he says, take it out of context, make it sound like he inferred something other than what he intended, then claim victory. Surely, you, of all people, can understand how someone would twist things and take them out of context to make their own point, right Nigel?
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Post by DWags on 2020-01-23, 01:37

This has nothing to do with Biden. There will be no discovery in this trial that changes Americans minds from where they are right now. Don’t give Moscow Mitch or Trump anything.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-01-23, 06:25

NigelUno wrote:Why are Dems so hesitant to do a straight up Hunter Biden/Bolton witness trade?

Are they trying to protect it from somehow hurting Joe Biden?

Haven't followed it closely, but I'm guessing Hunter got paid a lot of money for influence (or potential influence). While not illegal necessarily, it just exposes the reality of politics. Would that really harm Joe Biden that much?

I guess Bolton will talk eventually (on a book tour)?


Why negotiate with the most dishonest party of our life times? And show me one piece of evidence that Biden broke any laws. They’ll put him on the stand and then go off to Fox and spin out their republican talking points. Anything Bolton says it will be their usual hits: he’s a loser, I barely knew him, maybe they’ll even come up with a clever nickname?
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-01-23, 06:28

DWags wrote:This has nothing to do with Biden. There will be no discovery in this trial that changes Americans minds from where they are right now. Don’t give Moscow Mitch or Trump anything.

Yep, when the truth doesn’t matter and they can create their own narrative putting him up on the stand they’ll turn it into whatever they want. Look at the Seth Rich conspiracy they used to run on Fox.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-01-23, 06:50

The sooner America realizes this entire thing is rigged in favor of Putin, the sooner y'all can understand that bringing logic, decorum and a sense of Constitutional purpose to the process is a mainstream media talking point designed to legitimize a prearranged conclusion.
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 2020-01-23, 06:58

Rocinante wrote:Whenever someone uses the word “feckless” you know they’re smart.

Or a lyrical genius

Rudy Can't Fail wrote:How you get so rude and'a reckless?
Don't you be so crude and'a feckless
You been drinkin' brew for breakfast
Rudie can't fail, no, no
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-01-23, 07:25

Rocinante wrote:President’s counsel trotting out the same lies the republicans in the house were shouting. They have taken the famously-nazi phrase “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” to heart clearly.

Rick wilson wrote a book called “Running Against The Devil”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/11/donald-trump-rick-wilson-running-against-the-devil

Good read he outlines the Republican playbook.

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Post by NigelUno on 2020-01-23, 08:24

MiamiSpartan wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Yes. It is irrelevant...and that can be pointed out. So...why not do it if they agree to let Bolton testify in exchange?
Guess you didn't read the rest of my post. Having him testify has the same effect as if Ukraine had announced an investigation into him (even if they never conducted an investigation). Both would give ammo for Trump against Biden. He could be completely innocent, but the Republicans could lead him with certain questions, twist what he says, take it out of context, make it sound like he inferred something other than what he intended, then claim victory. Surely, you, of all people, can understand how someone would twist things and take them out of context to make their own point, right Nigel?

I read your post. I guess you didn't read when I said this...

Are they trying to protect it from somehow hurting Joe Biden?

So...maybe you took my post out of context...since you missed that part?

Not sure.

Seems like we agree then? Again...not sure. I mean...I don't want to take your post out of context.


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Post by steveschneider on 2020-01-23, 09:52

Cameron wrote:You guys are idiots. Pelosi has made a mess of this whole shit. If she would have started the impeachment inquiry when she should have, we could literally be years ahead of where we are now. If she had issued subpoenas, then she would have some reasonable defense to the Republican criticism that she didn't try very hard to get Bolton in, so why should they?

She has bungled this at almost every turn, and suckers like you guys keep thinking she's got some grand masterstroke saved up. Enjoy the disappointment.

Fucking Cameron. Is this one different? 502811600
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Post by Cameron on 2020-01-23, 11:29

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:You guys are idiots. Pelosi has made a mess of this whole shit. If she would have started the impeachment inquiry when she should have, we could literally be years ahead of where we are now. If she had issued subpoenas, then she would have some reasonable defense to the Republican criticism that she didn't try very hard to get Bolton in, so why should they?

She has bungled this at almost every turn, and suckers like you guys keep thinking she's got some grand masterstroke saved up. Enjoy the disappointment.

Fucking Cameron. Is this one different? 502811600

Got any substance to respond with, or have we just reached the portion of the day in which we exchange generalized vitriol?

I'm fine with either.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-01-23, 12:09

NigelUno wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Guess you didn't read the rest of my post. Having him testify has the same effect as if Ukraine had announced an investigation into him (even if they never conducted an investigation). Both would give ammo for Trump against Biden. He could be completely innocent, but the Republicans could lead him with certain questions, twist what he says, take it out of context, make it sound like he inferred something other than what he intended, then claim victory. Surely, you, of all people, can understand how someone would twist things and take them out of context to make their own point, right Nigel?

I read your post. I guess you didn't read when I said this...

Are they trying to protect it from somehow hurting Joe Biden?

So...maybe you took my post out of context...since you missed that part?

Not sure.

Seems like we agree then? Again...not sure. I mean...I don't want to take your post out of context.


No, I originally answered that part of your question. But then you only talked about the irrelevancy and still suggested that he should testify. I'm not sure what we agree on since you seem to be in favor of letting him testify.

But yes, you just gave a great example of what I was talking about in that last post.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-01-24, 09:29

republicans continue to smear decorated American patriots while defending crime, corruption and the desecration of the Constitution.

Sen. Marsha Blackburn @MarshaBlackburn ยท 17h

Adam Schiff is hailing Alexander Vindman as an American patriot.

How patriotic is it to badmouth and ridicule our great nation in front of Russia, America’s greatest enemy?
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Post by Rocinante on 2020-01-24, 10:30

There’s four or five republicans everyone should be watching. The rest, fuck em.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-01-24, 11:29

There’s not a chance in hell of witnesses. These scumbags are enabled by their constituents.

Trump 2020
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-01-24, 11:32

kingstonlake wrote:There’s not a chance in hell of witnesses. These scumbags are enabled by their constituents.

Trump 2020
yep - there will be no witnesses. Don't let the mainstream media allow you to believe otherwise.

America is a stupid country and we get what we deserve.

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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-01-24, 13:30

if you were upset about the silly Benghazi thing but you're okay with the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator saying, in regard to an Ambassador, "take her out".. you're a racist, bigoted misogynist.

Is this one different? 969504605
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Post by NigelUno on 2020-01-25, 10:09

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Post by steveschneider on 2020-01-25, 11:08

all this is doing is showing how fucked the system is. The Republican Party is destroying it all.
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Post by Rocinante on 2020-01-25, 14:26

Anybody with one ounce of hope we get witnesses is delusional.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-01-25, 14:57

Rocinante wrote:Anybody with one ounce of hope we get witnesses is delusional.

Repubs don’t want it because they know it will be damaging to him it’s that simple.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-01-26, 18:37

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-tied-ukraine-aid-to-inquiries-he-sought-bolton-book-says/ar-BBZlMfy

Ruh roh

President Trump told his national security adviser in August that he wanted to continue freezing $391 million in security assistance to Ukraine until officials there helped with investigations into Democrats including the Bidens, according to an unpublished manuscript by the former adviser, John R. Bolton.

Welp, this guarantees No witnesses will be called.
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 2020-01-26, 19:12

Hilarity continues.

[tw]1221586142040141824[/tw]
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-01-26, 21:42

kingstonlake wrote:https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-tied-ukraine-aid-to-inquiries-he-sought-bolton-book-says/ar-BBZlMfy

Ruh roh

President Trump told his national security adviser in August that he wanted to continue freezing $391 million in security assistance to Ukraine until officials there helped with investigations into Democrats including the Bidens, according to an unpublished manuscript by the former adviser, John R. Bolton.

Welp, this guarantees No witnesses will be called.
Would it change anything if he did testify? It seems that Trump's defense centers, not on denying what happened, but on denying that what happened is impeachable conduct.

The White House has had this manuscript for a couple of weeks, so it is no surprise to them, and I'm sure their defense strategy was built with this in mind.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-01-26, 21:43

Floyd Robertson wrote:Hilarity continues.

[tw]1221586142040141824[/tw]
So this what Antineplaston or whatever has been up to since he was booted from here for similar anti-semitic rhetoric.
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Post by NigelUno on 2020-01-27, 08:12

Need Trump (and his minions) to call Bolton a liar. Then they'll look silly for not calling him as a witness (under oath).
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-01-27, 09:37

NigelUno wrote:Need Trump (and his minions) to call Bolton a liar. Then they'll look silly for not calling him as a witness (under oath).
Effectively he has called hima liar. Said he made it up to sell books.

We'll just forget about the witnesses that have said that Bolton said the same to them, cause they're in on it to help Bolton's book.
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Post by DWags on 2020-01-27, 09:47

MiamiSpartan wrote:
NigelUno wrote:Need Trump (and his minions) to call Bolton a liar. Then they'll look silly for not calling him as a witness (under oath).
Effectively he has called hima liar. Said he made it up to sell books.

We'll just forget about the witnesses that have said that Bolton said the same to them, cause they're in on it to help Bolton's book.

There are 52 senators who are able to lie to themselves that this POS is innocent. It amazes me the lack of courage we have.

I’m not even surprised that the “persuadeables” believe and defend trump, Cambridge analytical took care of that a long time ago. But what we’ve lost in this country since Nixon are congressmen with moral courage.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-01-27, 09:54

MiamiSpartan wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-tied-ukraine-aid-to-inquiries-he-sought-bolton-book-says/ar-BBZlMfy

Ruh roh



Welp, this guarantees No witnesses will be called.
Would it change anything if he did testify? It seems that Trump's defense centers, not on denying what happened, but on denying that what happened is impeachable conduct.

The White House has had this manuscript for a couple of weeks, so it is no surprise to them, and I'm sure their defense strategy was built with this in mind.

Probably not. They’ve signed off on gerrymandering, voter intimidation, voter suppression, deleting voter rolls, etc. Doubt that Trump asking Ukraine to interfere in an election moves the needle. At this point it’s about being in the record and inspiring people to register and get out and vote this shit out
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Geronte
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