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Post by NigelUno on Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:54 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Are Coaches paid by the school or the Athletic Department? (Honestly asking.)

Is the athletic department a legally separate entity from the rest of the university? That is a serious question.

I don't think it is. Looking at Dantonio's contract, he's paid by the University (whether it comes out of an Athletic Budget...I don't know...but, I guess it doesn't matter...it's all under the University umbrella). The contract is not that complicated. He got a base salary of roughly $2.3 million, another $1 million for other University related stuff, and $100,000 for a shoe/apparel deal...plus other fringe benefits.
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Post by Turtleneck on Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:56 pm

NigelUno wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

Is the athletic department a legally separate entity from the rest of the university? That is a serious question.

I don't think it is. Looking at Dantonio's contract, he's paid by the University (whether it comes out of an Athletic Budget...I don't know...but, I guess it doesn't matter...it's all under the University umbrella). The contract is not that complicated. He got a base salary of roughly $2.3 million, another $1 million for other University related stuff, and $100,000 for a shoe/apparel deal...plus other fringe benefits.


Wow. MSU got a good deal. I get nearly as much for sitting on the Co9 and doing nothing.
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Post by Turtleneck on Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:59 pm

MSU addict wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

They have a fiduciary duty. They must act in, or protect, the public interest. This duty suggests the possibility of their involvement before a recommendation is made for their approval.



Honestly, I just don't think blame can be assigned to the BoT by itself. I honestly do not care all that much, but if I did, I would say there is plenty of blame to share.
Trust me, I understand the term and have acted as a fiduciary professionally.

Everyone has an agenda, myself included. They often use the term to justify the actions of that agenda.

I would not argue that point either. I am sure it is easy to justify a range of actions as part of that duty.
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Post by MSU addict on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:06 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
MSU addict wrote:Football coaches (coaches who make a lot of money) have very complicated contracts.  Generally their pay checks are complex and includes money form many outside sources (like shoe companies).

 

So does that invite the BoT into the process here?

MSU BoT Bylaws wrote:Outside Employment. A full-time member of the faculty or staff may not be employed for remuneration by agencies other than the University except under the established rules of the Board and with the approval of the appropriate University authorities. In all cases there shall be no conflict of interest between the activity of the faculty or staff member and the University function. Any proceeds realized from such activity may be proportioned between the University and the faculty member where institutional time and/or facilities are involved.

I feel what you quoted has everything to do with the University concern about its employees profiting form research done at MSU.  In general if the MSU is paying you, they own your research and discoveries.

The BOT in no way has run afoul of the law.  The question is should they be involved in a coaching search.  My opinion is that they should not.  They hire an AD, that person hires a football coach.


Last edited by MSU addict on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by duffy munn on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:07 pm

Heathens '87 wrote:
steveschneider wrote:My take, it wasn't the BOT or Beekman bungling it. It was Fickell didn't want to inherent the drama and controversies that would come with the Blackwell law suit, possible NCAA sanctions and the continuing fall out from the Nassar scandal.

My thoughts....

- Beekman is at fault here. He locked in on a candidate, it was all far too public, other candidates had the chance to step away publicly, and he failed to manage the board well. He's green and it showed.

- The board involves themselves far too much in athletic decision-making, especially when there isn't strong leadership. Their insistence on involvement is inappropriate for a school of our size and we've had to deal with the impact of their views on minority hiring for 30 years now. That has never worked to our advantage in hiring.

- Fickell and family took a look at the situation and said no. There are some legitimate reasons - a lack of leadership and consistency in either the AD or President position; board dysfunction, fallout from the Nassar situation; cultural issues in the Dantonio program getting a focus. The courtship process here didn't resolve concerns. I'm disappointed but not shocked.

The biggest issue with the way this has been managed is that there was no Plan B. Like a young QB, Beekman locked in on the receiver from the snap. Anybody now feels like Plan B who wants or takes the job as all legitimate Plan B options had to say no last week. So reclamation projects and young coaches without a needed stop in-between their job and MSU.

The Athletic Department and the university as a whole lack leadership. Stanley is new, Beekman is an administrator, not an athletic guy, and the BOT is far from settled. That is all a direct result of Nassar. I think Fickell will leave Cincinnati for a better job in the near future. I love my university, but I can't really come up with a good sales pitch that would convince a guy with that resume that we're that program.....

This sums up the whole situation perfectly. Well done.

I wish I could say things will change in the near future but I don't see it. I wanted to believe Stanley would come in and be the strong leader we needed. I get that he has other, more pressing things, on his plate. But damn he has been silent and completely inactive on MSU football.

IMO, his first move in regards to athletics should have been to hire an AD. Like on day one. He didn't and left a novice to twist in the wind as the biggest hire maybe in MSU history was looming.

And here we are.

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Post by Turtleneck on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:09 pm

MSU addict wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

So does that invite the BoT into the process here?



I feel what you quoted has everything to do with the University concern about its employees profiting form research done at MSU.  In general if the MSU is paying you, they own your research and discoveries.

The BOT in no way has run afoul of the law.  The question is should they be involved in a coaching search.  My opinion is that they should not.  They hire an AD, that person hires a football coach.

I think that is a separate policy found here:

https://trustees.msu.edu/bylaws-ordinances-policies/policies/03-17-01.html
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Post by NigelUno on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:22 pm

duffy munn wrote:
Heathens '87 wrote:

My thoughts....

- Beekman is at fault here. He locked in on a candidate, it was all far too public, other candidates had the chance to step away publicly, and he failed to manage the board well. He's green and it showed.

- The board involves themselves far too much in athletic decision-making, especially when there isn't strong leadership. Their insistence on involvement is inappropriate for a school of our size and we've had to deal with the impact of their views on minority hiring for 30 years now. That has never worked to our advantage in hiring.

- Fickell and family took a look at the situation and said no. There are some legitimate reasons - a lack of leadership and consistency in either the AD or President position; board dysfunction, fallout from the Nassar situation; cultural issues in the Dantonio program getting a focus. The courtship process here didn't resolve concerns. I'm disappointed but not shocked.

The biggest issue with the way this has been managed is that there was no Plan B. Like a young QB, Beekman locked in on the receiver from the snap. Anybody now feels like Plan B who wants or takes the job as all legitimate Plan B options had to say no last week. So reclamation projects and young coaches without a needed stop in-between their job and MSU.

The Athletic Department and the university as a whole lack leadership. Stanley is new, Beekman is an administrator, not an athletic guy, and the BOT is far from settled. That is all a direct result of Nassar. I think Fickell will leave Cincinnati for a better job in the near future. I love my university, but I can't really come up with a good sales pitch that would convince a guy with that resume that we're that program.....

This sums up the whole situation perfectly. Well done.

I wish I could say things will change in the near future but I don't see it. I wanted to believe Stanley would come in and be the strong leader we needed. I get that he has other, more pressing things, on his plate. But damn he has been silent and completely inactive on MSU football.

IMO, his first move in regards to athletics should have been to hire an AD. Like on day one. He didn't and left a novice to twist in the wind as the biggest hire maybe in MSU history was looming.

And here we are.


How's Dog and Pony Murky doing?
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Post by Nordic on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:47 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Then it probably doesn't mention messing up Coaching Searches either.  

Maybe it is bad precedent to let the athletic department do as they please in respect to hiring university employees and contracts, especially given that the BoT has a fiduciary duty.

The BoT and AD should be on the same page on how a coaching search should be conducted before a coach retires/gets fired/etc. This plan should be known by both parties before the "oh shit" moment happens. If they are not, it is on both of them and Stanley for not ensuring they are. Our leadership is no different know than it was before Nassar. All parties failed.
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Post by NigelUno on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:53 pm

Nordic wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

Maybe it is bad precedent to let the athletic department do as they please in respect to hiring university employees and contracts, especially given that the BoT has a fiduciary duty.

The BoT and AD should be on the same page on how a coaching search should be conducted before a coach retires/gets fired/etc. This plan should be known by both parties before the "oh shit" moment happens. If they are not, it is on both of them and Stanley for not ensuring they are. Our leadership is no different know than it was before Nassar. All parties failed.

Exactly. How would an AD not know what the process was? Maybe he did, but it seems like the BoT sure as hell didn't think he knew what the process was.
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Post by Turtleneck on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:56 pm

NigelUno wrote:
Nordic wrote:

The BoT and AD should be on the same page on how a coaching search should be conducted before a coach retires/gets fired/etc. This plan should be known by both parties before the "oh shit" moment happens. If they are not, it is on both of them and Stanley for not ensuring they are. Our leadership is no different know than it was before Nassar. All parties failed.

Exactly. How would an AD not know what the process was? Maybe he did, but it seems like the BoT sure as hell didn't think he knew what the process was.

Or maybe, and I'm sure this is a stretch, the AD did not know what hell he was doing.
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Post by Nordic on Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:03 am

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Post by NigelUno on Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:29 am

Turtleneck wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Exactly. How would an AD not know what the process was? Maybe he did, but it seems like the BoT sure as hell didn't think he knew what the process was.

Or maybe, and I'm sure this is a stretch, the AD did not know what hell he was doing.

I thought I implied that as well.

It was a great idea.
It was handled poorly.
Fickell changed his mind (maybe with the help of a delay).
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Post by Nordic on Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:02 am

Apparently Mossallum (why???) was just on 97.2 and shit himself.
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Post by Floyd Robertson on Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:07 am

Nordic wrote:Apparently Mossallum (why???) was just on 97.2 and shit himself.

[tw]1227216396532244480[/tw]
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Post by NigelUno on Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:07 am

Nordic wrote:Apparently Mossallum (why???) was just on 97.2 and shit himself.

We need a town hall meeting. That's how things get decided in this country.
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Post by NigelUno on Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:10 am

Floyd Robertson wrote:
Nordic wrote:Apparently Mossallum (why???) was just on 97.2 and shit himself.

[tw]1227216396532244480[/tw]

Awesome! Let's dirty this up a bit.

Did he waffle because the BoT threw a monkey wrench in the plan though?

(Would have been a good question, amirite?)
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Post by MiamiSpartan on Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:35 am

Floyd Robertson wrote:
Nordic wrote:Apparently Mossallum (why???) was just on 97.2 and shit himself.

[tw]1227216396532244480[/tw]
So he didn't directly say it, but these are his words, not mine.

Sounds like the meme "I'm not saying it was aliens, bit it was aliens"
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Post by Heathens '87 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:37 am

Nordic wrote:Apparently Mossallum (why???) was just on 97.2 and shit himself.

Pure dysfunction. An inexperienced AD, a new President and nobody is managing the presentation of information to the public regarding the search. It's just bad business practice to speak poorly of a candidate who turned down the position given the message it sends to other candidates and to the public. We've a stunning lack of leadership......
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Post by NigelUno on Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:42 am

Heathens '87 wrote:
Nordic wrote:Apparently Mossallum (why???) was just on 97.2 and shit himself.

Pure dysfunction. An inexperienced AD, a new President and nobody is managing the presentation of information to the public regarding the search. It's just bad business practice to speak poorly of a candidate who turned down the position given the message it sends to other candidates and to the public. We've a stunning lack of leadership.......

Classic finger pointing and 'Don't blame me' nonsense.

It's like a condo HOA board.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:47 am

Heathens '87 wrote:
Nordic wrote:Apparently Mossallum (why???) was just on 97.2 and shit himself.

Pure dysfunction. An inexperienced AD, a new President and nobody is managing the presentation of information to the public regarding the search. It's just bad business practice to speak poorly of a candidate who turned down the position given the message it sends to other candidates and to the public. We've a stunning lack of leadership.......
Especially considering the relationship that the Fickells have with the Dantonios, as well as the close coaching community, especially in Ohio, which is vital to MSU.
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Post by Watch Out Pylon! on Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:49 am

MSU Admin: Not Ready For Primetime
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Post by Nordic on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:05 am

They are replaying the interview around 9:18
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Post by DWags on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:27 am

So,. I'm enjoying sirius radio, just music. It's hard to watch anything, I'm doing documentaries. Gonna pick up some good books. Done with sports radio, can't read the trash on Spartantailgate, had some laughs here yesterday, but the MSU community and Athletic Department is in such a bad place, I'm afraid if I hear that idiot on the radio, or pick up a paper or read tob, I'd just lose it.

Politics suck right now. B-ball team slumping, football shit show,, blue wall piling on, Board of trusties absolutely shitting themselvs, President no where to be seen or heard. Why even listen or get involved in any of this?

Books, music, documentaries, Spartan Basketball when on t.v. at night. tSwill. (cause you fuckers are both reasonable and funny). I'll cheer on th Spartans, and support the new guy when named. Too old and tired for any of the other shit.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:30 am

DWags wrote:So,. I'm enjoying sirius radio, just music. It's hard to watch anything, I'm doing documentaries. Gonna pick up some good books. Done with sports radio, can't read the trash on Spartantailgate, had some laughs here yesterday, but the MSU community and Athletic Department is in such a bad place, I'm afraid if I hear that idiot on the radio, or pick up a paper or read tob, I'd just lose it.

Politics suck right now. B-ball team slumping, football shit show,, blue wall piling on, Board of trusties absolutely shitting themselvs, President no where to be seen or heard. Why even listen or get involved in any of this?

Books, music, documentaries, Spartan Basketball when on t.v. at night. tSwill. (cause you fuckers are both reasonable and funny). I'll cheer on th Spartans, and support the new guy when named. Too old and tired for any of the other shit.
crank up some tunes, dude. Welcome Coach Fickell - Page 19 3493939353
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Post by Heathens '87 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:35 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
DWags wrote:So,. I'm enjoying sirius radio, just music. It's hard to watch anything, I'm doing documentaries. Gonna pick up some good books. Done with sports radio, can't read the trash on Spartantailgate, had some laughs here yesterday, but the MSU community and Athletic Department is in such a bad place, I'm afraid if I hear that idiot on the radio, or pick up a paper or read tob, I'd just lose it.

Politics suck right now. B-ball team slumping, football shit show,, blue wall piling on, Board of trusties absolutely shitting themselvs, President no where to be seen or heard. Why even listen or get involved in any of this?

Books, music, documentaries, Spartan Basketball when on t.v. at night. tSwill. (cause you fuckers are both reasonable and funny). I'll cheer on th Spartans, and support the new guy when named. Too old and tired for any of the other shit.
crank up some tunes, dude. Welcome Coach Fickell - Page 19 3493939353

Nothing improves your outlook like Yacht Rock....

Yacht Rock
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Post by CORNER BLITZ on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:38 am

NigelUno wrote:

Classic finger pointing and 'Don't blame me' nonsense.

It's like a condo HOA board.


Perfect comparison
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Post by CORNER BLITZ on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:39 am

[tw]1226923259893026816[/tw]
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Post by steveschneider on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:44 am

There's some young talent out there or someone looking for another chance to coach that will jump at the chance to make 3-4 million a year. Not worried.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:46 am

Heathens '87 wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: crank up some tunes, dude. Welcome Coach Fickell - Page 19 3493939353

Nothing improves your outlook like Yacht Rock....

Yacht Rock  
when I hear the term "yacht rock", the one and (maybe) only band that comes to mind is The National.
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Post by Floyd Robertson on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:47 am

steveschneider wrote:There's some young talent out there or someone looking for another chance to coach that will jump at the chance to make 3-4 million a year. Not worried.

Nobody over 50. Might as well go for the moonshot with somebody in their 30s.
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Post by steveschneider on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:53 am

Floyd Robertson wrote:
steveschneider wrote:There's some young talent out there or someone looking for another chance to coach that will jump at the chance to make 3-4 million a year. Not worried.

Nobody over 50. Might as well go for the moonshot with somebody in their 30s.

Not opposed to this. IMO too there's plenty of very talented African American coaches getting overlooked that need a chance not that it's mandatory to hire one but I believe that because of this there's qualified candidates out there that would take the job. Find a brilliant upcoming coordinator somewhere and get them in here.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:00 pm

Been pretty busy today, still two more hours to drive. How are things?
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Post by kingstonlake on Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:08 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Been pretty busy today, still two more hours to drive. How are things?

One word. Rudderless.
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Post by NigelUno on Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:14 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Been pretty busy today, still two more hours to drive. How are things?

OTPT is embarrassed.

DWags is sending him some books.
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Post by DWags on Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:56 pm

DWags wrote:I'm good with both. However if Fickell isn't jumping in and saying "I have not been approached, I am not interviewing, I am solid in Cincy" he is coming here and will be the next head coach.

Mel Tucker, would impress the hell out of all of you. There are certain people, whether at work, or in your circle that absolutely control a room. A personality that you warm to instantly and you're secure with. A person who you see and just gives you a quick smile and I don't know, is just cooler than you and you kind of want to hear what he has to say.

I do think Fickell might be a better coach but I would have zero problem giving Tucker a go around.

I was looking for this, I'll bump it. Just because I thought a lot of him when we all thought Fickell was coming doesn't mean I think he'll be a great MSU coach, but I had no problem is they would have offered him first. I'm telling you, this guy owns a room when he walks into it. Is that good? I don't know, but it's not bad as far as a head coach. Saban owned a room out of fear, you just shut the fuck up and listened because he would single you out, yell at you, humiliate you to just vent. So, sit in there and don't make eye contact. Bobby walks in and you felt like your drinking buddy was in the room, listened but not out of fear or urgency. Dantonio owned rooms too, but out of respect. Never feared him, respected him, but couldn't get the warm and fuzzy feeling ever, at the same time, you knew what he said was important, if not a bit hokey. Tucker, he seemed like he was talking to you. eye contact was always moving from person to person, seemed interested in you. Encouraging. And he was at tops mid 20's. No contact with him whatsoever for almost 2 and half decades I guess, but I'm also guessing his personality never changed. Does that equal great coach? NO, but you just liked him and were happy to work with him. I guess if you had to rank coaches that were in charge of the day or plan, and the ones you focused on the most in my experience when Saban 1. Tucker 1.b 2. Dantonio 6. Bobby
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Post by Rocinante on Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:04 pm

Just wanted to bump this before the weekend. Keep this around folks. It’s an instant classic.
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Post by Heat Miser on Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:10 pm

DWags wrote:
DWags wrote:I'm good with both. However if Fickell isn't jumping in and saying "I have not been approached, I am not interviewing, I am solid in Cincy" he is coming here and will be the next head coach.

Mel Tucker, would impress the hell out of all of you. There are certain people, whether at work, or in your circle that absolutely control a room. A personality that you warm to instantly and you're secure with. A person who you see and just gives you a quick smile and I don't know, is just cooler than you and you kind of want to hear what he has to say.

I do think Fickell might be a better coach but I would have zero problem giving Tucker a go around.

I was looking for this, I'll bump it. Just because I thought a lot of him when we all thought Fickell was coming doesn't mean I think he'll be a great MSU coach, but I had no problem is they would have offered him first. I'm telling you, this guy owns a room when he walks into it. Is that good? I don't know, but it's not bad as far as a head coach. Saban owned a room out of fear, you just shut the fuck up and listened because he would single you out, yell at you, humiliate you to just vent. So, sit in there and don't make eye contact. Bobby walks in and you felt like your drinking buddy was in the room, listened but not out of fear or urgency. Dantonio owned rooms too, but out of respect. Never feared him, respected him, but couldn't get the warm and fuzzy feeling ever, at the same time, you knew what he said was important, if not a bit hokey. Tucker, he seemed like he was talking to you. eye contact was always moving from person to person, seemed interested in you. Encouraging. And he was at tops mid 20's. No contact with him whatsoever for almost 2 and half decades I guess, but I'm also guessing his personality never changed. Does that equal great coach? NO, but you just liked him and were happy to work with him. I guess if you had to rank coaches that were in charge of the day or plan, and the ones you focused on the most in my experience when Saban 1. Tucker 1.b 2. Dantonio 6. Bobby

You left out tCowboy! Talk about commanding a room...if you weren't paying attention he'd slap the shit out of himself!
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