Net Neutrality

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Net Neutrality

Post by InTenSity on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:10 am

Does the consumer have any chance here, or are we all just screwed by the FCC and the big ISP's? The problem I have with this being pushed through is that it is confusing and most people don't even know about it. Why do I have to pay twice to have internet? Don't give me the BS that there isn't enough bandwidth. I'm buying a service from a company, they need to honor that service. Plus there are very little alternatives. Google, you are our only hope!
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by AvgMSUJoe on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:15 am

You know unless you can purchase no less than 7 senators, you have no rights in Washington...

Supreme Court just nailed that twice.

So, if Comcast wants to charge multiple times for whatever. You will pay.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by LoneWolfSparty on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:16 am

SWILL BIN

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by AvgMSUJoe on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:20 am

LoneWolfSparty wrote:SWILL BIN

So did I just make history. First one to blatantly politicize a thread...
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by LoneWolfSparty on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:21 am

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

So did I just make history. First one to blatantly politicize a thread...


Nope, you aren't the first.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Turtleneck on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:22 am

LoneWolfSparty wrote:SWILL BIN

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by InTenSity on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:22 am

Why is this swill bin? I would say that this ruling could affect a lot of people and it really isn't all that political.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Cosmo_Kramer on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:25 am

This is not Swill Bin material; this affects ALL OF US. We are, ahem, all communicating through a message board -- on the fucking Internet!

Comcast is doing its best to destroy net neutrality through loopholes, and it has a domino effect on consumers. Do you want to pay double for Netflix? Thought not. How about a way bigger Internet bill every month? Nope.

Losing net neutrality would be a giant disservice to American freedom.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Turtleneck on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:37 am

Cosmo_Kramer wrote:This is not Swill Bin material; this affects ALL OF US. We are, ahem, all communicating through a message board -- on the fucking Internet!

Comcast is doing its best to destroy net neutrality through loopholes, and it has a domino effect on consumers. Do you want to pay double for Netflix? Thought not. How about a way bigger Internet bill every month? Nope.

Losing net neutrality would be a giant disservice to American freedom.

There is already a digital divide and I feel like it only widens with the loss of net neutrality.

There was some short but interesting commentary on NPR this morning.

What Do Net Neutrality Rules Mean For Web Users?
npr.org/2014/04/24/306542099/what-do-net-neutrality-rules-mean-for-web-users?ft=1&f=1003
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by AvgMSUJoe on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:41 am

Yeah. We fkd.

Message board fee. Amazon browsing fee. Software download fee. (let alone torrent, other non port 80 things)

Seems like these issues would have been resolved w Ma Bell a million years ago. I suppose a downside of privatization?
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by LoneWolfSparty on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:46 am

We all should start charging each other for our posts.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:48 am

reddit.com/r/WarOnComcast
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Turtleneck on Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:13 am

LoneWolfSparty wrote:We all should start charging each other for our posts.

I hope you get a senior discount.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Heat Miser on Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:34 am

Agree. Not Swill Bin material.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Rocinante on Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:27 pm

Cosmo_Kramer wrote:This is not Swill Bin material; this affects ALL OF US. We are, ahem, all communicating through a message board -- on the fucking Internet!

Comcast is doing its best to destroy net neutrality through loopholes, and it has a domino effect on consumers. Do you want to pay double for Netflix? Thought not. How about a way bigger Internet bill every month? Nope.

Losing net neutrality would be a giant disservice to American freedom.

What do you mean "would be"? It's done!

There is no "free" flow of information on the internet anymore. Everything's about to change. Write your senators and reps. Seriously. Those fuckers are so bought and sold it's sick.

Term limits!! gggahagahgahaggaghagah!!!
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by LoneWolfSparty on Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:30 pm

Turtleneck wrote:

I hope you get a senior discount.

I gave your mom the senior discount last night.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:48 pm

Anyone want to give a college kid a quick run down of what the hell is going on or should I just do some googling?
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by AvgMSUJoe on Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:59 pm

Rocinante wrote:
Term limits!!  gggahagahgahaggaghagah!!!

Term limits wouldn't change anything... it would just allow there to be more scummy lobbyist sliming around Washington.

They should publicly fund all elections. Pay senators/reps well.... Then forbid them to lobby for 10 years after they leave.

Viola... no money to influence elections. No huge payments on the backend. The politicians would HAVE to listen to the electorate to keep a well paying cushy job.

I JUST FIXED OUR DEMOCRACY MFERS! Founding fathers my ass.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by InTenSity on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:20 pm

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Anyone want to give a college kid a quick run down of what the hell is going on or should I just do some googling?
I'm still trying to understand all of it, but I think I have the jist of it. Right now, or until a few months ago ISP's were forbidden from throttling users to any sites. All sites have to be open and there is nothing that is supposed to slow down the user from accessing the site (assuming the site is up and running). VZW sued the FCC and the Supreme Court sided with them in the end, striking down the old Net Neutrality laws. Now ISP's can throttle on the back end the speed to access sites, or they will probably say that they will increase speeds to preferred sites. You are already paying for whatever speed broadband you use, lets say 20 mb/sec. Well now CNN can pay Comcast extra to make sure that people will get to the site and use their full 20 mb/sec, meanwhile Spartanswill is unable to pay Comcast, so Comcast switches this site to a secondary site and slows the flow down to 1 mb/sec, even though you are paying for 20 mb/sec. This way ISP's can charge both the end user and the provider of the site and double dip, making them even more money as they rub their nipples.

Anyone who is more familiar with what is going on can probably give better info.



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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Rocinante on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:35 pm

InTenSityX wrote:
I'm still trying to understand all of it, but I think I have the jist of it. Right now, or until a few months ago ISP's were forbidden from throttling users to any sites. All sites have to be open and there is nothing that is supposed to slow down the user from accessing the site (assuming the site is up and running). VZW sued the FCC and the Supreme Court sided with them in the end, striking down the old Net Neutrality laws. Now ISP's can throttle on the back end the speed to access sites, or they will probably say that they will increase speeds to preferred sites. You are already paying for whatever speed broadband you use, lets say 20 mb/sec. Well now CNN can pay Comcast extra to make sure that people will get to the site and use their full 20 mb/sec, meanwhile Spartanswill is unable to pay Comcast, so Comcast switches this site to a secondary site and slows the flow down to 1 mb/sec, even though you are paying for 20 mb/sec. This way ISP's can charge both the end user and the provider of the site and double dip, making them even more money as they rub their nipples.

Anyone who is more familiar with what is going on can probably give better info.




Good call, but the fact that there is so little competition in most markets in the us (as illustrated by your graphic) is a related issue, but not the same issue. That stems from the fact that in the US, when internet providers became a thing and the FCC was forced to set rules for the use of the infrastructure that they set up (the pipes) providers were not classified like phone companies (who's wire's are required to be accessible to all telephone providers -- at a fee). The FCC says that they did that to spur development of infrastructure , but what it really did was favor companies that already had the capitol to build infrastructure (established service providers) and allow them to get what is for all purposes a monopoly in the regions where they set up shop. Then they start selling off to each other and pretty soon there's like 5 isps in the whole damn country.

Now, if you like netflix, but hulu plus is owned by Comcast, and your only choice for a isp is comcast. Guess what they can do legally? Throttle down your access to netflix and advertise the hell out of hulu to you so that you basically have no choice but to use their preferred service.


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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:47 pm

That sounds like fucking bullshit. What is this communist Russia? Is this a done deal?

No offense you guys, but the older people need to be ran out of office. We need some youth, creativity, and balance in there. Not these old fucks who still live like it's the 70s.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by AvgMSUJoe on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:51 pm

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:That sounds like fucking bullshit. What is this communist Russia? Is this a done deal?

No offense you guys, but the older people need to be ran out of office. We need some youth, creativity, and balance in there. Not these old fucks who still live like it's the 70s.
Money corrupts them all... has nothing to do with old.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Brock Middlebrook on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:54 pm

Turtleneck wrote:

I hope you get a senior discount.

Or a Rapid Rewards Card for all the posts he fires off   
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Rocinante on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:56 pm

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:That sounds like fucking bullshit. What is this communist Russia? Is this a done deal?

No.

But the FCC is about to make it a rule, then there will be lawsuits, and if ti gets to the Supreme Court, do you think the court that has ruled that corporations are people and money is speech will overturn it? Not likely. Has to be attacked at the Executive and/or Judicial Branch level, WRITE YOUR CONGRESS PERSONS. Please. And Vote.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by pulling69 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:59 pm

I have Fios and have not noticed any sort of throttling on any sites or file sharing service. Hell, I pay for a 15/15 plan that doesn't exist anymore and get 25/25. When I download off of Torrent my max speed is right around 3.6 megs a second, pretty close to maxing out the connection(but it really isn't as there are usually 2 other users in the house using the net at the same time).
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Rocinante on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:05 pm

pulling69 wrote:I have Fios and have not noticed any sort of throttling on any sites or file sharing service. Hell, I pay for a 15/15 plan that doesn't exist anymore and get 25/25. When I download off of Torrent my max speed is right around 3.6 megs a second, pretty close to maxing out the connection(but it really isn't as there are usually 2 other users in the house using the net at the same time).

Throttling is currently not overtly practiced by all providers except in the case of network congestion. Comcast does it as part of policy.

But all likely will if the FCC ruling goes through.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by LoneWolfSparty on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:17 pm

Rocinante wrote:

Throttling is currently not overtly practiced by all providers except in the case of network congestion.  Comcast does it as part of policy.

But all likely will if the FCC ruling goes through.

Will this include wireless data as well?

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Rocinante on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:22 pm

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

Will this include wireless data as well?

Absolutely. The ruling does not differentiate.

"The FCC's proposed rules would not allow telecom firms to block Web sites. On a case-by-case basis, the agency would watch for practices that are anti-competitive; for instance, if Verizon threatened to slow down Netflix, which competes with Verizon's Redbox Instant video and FiOS television service, the FCC could potentially weigh in.   Broadband firms could begin to strike deals for preferential treatment on their networks, according to the source, as long as agreements between the firms are considered "commercially reasonable."

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by InTenSity on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:23 pm

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

Will this include wireless data as well?
Wireless is less regulated than wired home internet. You buy a phone, that switches from 3g to 4g and they never advertise how fast your speeds are, just that they are faster or slower. Wireless carriers can do whatever the **** they want.

Also, the current FCC Chairman is a former cable lobbyist. He has zero concern for consumers...allegedly.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Cosmo_Kramer on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:53 pm

Wheeler of the FCC got beat up in the New York Times today.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:56 pm

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
Money corrupts them all... has nothing to do with old.

True. I guess I'm just hoping my younger generation realizes money isn't everything. But chances are low.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by xsanguine on Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:04 pm

Rocinante wrote:

 WRITE YOUR CONGRESS PERSONS.

Who do you think he talks more to... the richest lobbyist who see them in the hall outside their offices and whom they hang out with outside of work, BBQ's, etc... or the guy who writes a mean letter and has never even laid eyes on this person?

Rocinante wrote:

 And Vote.

If history is any indicator... that's not going to make any difference.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Rocinante on Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:43 pm

xsanguine wrote:

Who do you think he talks more to... the richest lobbyist who see them in the hall outside their offices and whom they hang out with outside of work, BBQ's, etc... or the guy who writes a mean letter and has never even laid eyes on this person?



If history is any indicator... that's not going to make any difference.

I know that's the prevailing sentiment, but honestly, they ultimately still have to get you to vote for them. SO it may not be much, but it's something.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Cosmo_Kramer on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:03 am

Some good reads:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/28/internet-service-providers-charging-premium-access

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/technology/fcc-new-net-neutrality-rules.html?mabReward=RI%3A1&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&region=Footer&module=Recommendation&src=recg&pgtype=article&_r=0

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by SeeRockCity on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:41 am

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:That sounds like fucking bullshit. What is this communist Russia? Is this a done deal?

No offense you guys, but the older people need to be ran out of office. We need some youth, creativity, and balance in there. Not these old fucks who still live like it's the 70s.

I think you've got it backwards. Regulating the service providers, allowing them to have monopolies, then making it illegal to throttle or alter their services is a big government concept. Allowing the providers to do whatever they want, then watching them go out of business when their customers jump ship to a competitor who is willing to make less money is free market.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by gHost Spartan on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:48 am

I thought this was another anti-RCMB thread for a minute there.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by GRR Spartan on Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:54 am

It appears neutrality is going to be a nice idea that never saw its time.

Even before the SCOTUS ruling on campaign financing that made getting the right folks for certain businesses easier to elect, Comcast was already in the driver's seat.

When the FCC allowed Comcast to but their own network with its own news organizations the horse was out of the barn.  The FCC also let Comcast, Charter and other IPS providers off the hook with their previous commitments to replace copper with fiber.

I would love to see an outdoor national wifi system but we get squeamish about nationalized anything so I suspect we return to a 1950's style internet with 2-3 major players controlling everything.
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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Cosmo_Kramer on Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:01 pm

I don't want to Wells this up (er, Swill it up) but Wheeler worked under Obama -- a man who said that net neutrality was a top priority for the American people. What a crock of shit.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by Cosmo_Kramer on Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:02 pm

Amid the discussions surrounding Comcast and the F.C.C. and (the perils of) net neutrality, I find myself in continuous thought regarding why this country continually allows for the big fish to swallow the minnows.

Comcast is a big fish, a shark or whale in the pantheon of providing cable and Internet service to Americans. It makes me fume to just write this post considering how the same thing happens over and over again. (Remember SOPA?) And then, the other day, I see an article in The New York Times about Tom Wheeler, the F.C.C. chairman, discussing net neutrality.

I almost just laughed myself off the page, due to Wheeler’s cavalier stance. Come on, you know his cronies at Comcast are throwing everything they can at him to make him lean more in one direction than another.

The destruction of net neutrality would hinder the United States’ communicative efforts in what is a free nation, and that just cannot happen. The effects would be destructive and enormous, from the lower-and-middle class folks paying even more for service (the upper class would pay more, too, but they can afford it) to other services — like Netflix — charging more for content because they rightfully want their own chunk as well.

It’s one big circle jerk of power and corruption, and those with the money get to play ball the longest. How long will this go on in this country? When will the charade end and when will the majority of people become privy to it all?

It’s people like Wheeler, and commissions like the F.C.C., and stories like this that make other nations looks at the United States with a smirk and a head shake. While these other countries are progressing through socioeconomic means, the U.S. is left to pick up the pieces of a country that was once at the forefront of delivering a better tomorrow. That day has long since passed, and now we — the lower-class members of society — are picking up the pieces of how things used to be.

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Re: Net Neutrality

Post by InTenSity on Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:24 am

Reddit is starting to get active. This was on the front page for a while yesterday. Will be interesting to see if as many people get as upset as they did with SOPA. Politicians have learned that the general public will wear down if they just keep pushing something through. I think this is the 3rd attempt to change the Internet.

Reddit thread

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