Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

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Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by LooseGoose on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 6:51

We had a long thread on this previously but it's time to remind everyone again. Buying organic from a local farmer might have some added value. Buying "organic" at any of the big chain stores including Whole Paycheck is a pure waste of $$. These large scale bastards have completely corrupted what was once a pure movement to better food. They now worry only about marginally complying with the letter of the law, fuck the spirit of the law.

"Organic" dairy:


This place produces "organic" eggs:



It's your $$, do with it what you will - but don't kid yourself that buying organic is getting you better quality food.

http://www.cornucopia.org/2014/12/investigation-factory-farms-producing-massive-quantities-organic-milk-eggs/

http://www.cornucopia.org/organic-factory-farm-investigation/

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Marc Summers on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 10:03

Whole Foods is great. They have the best products ever there, and prices have gotten much better since I started shopping there about 7 years ago.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 10:08

Nucky has gotten pretty lazy.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by LoneWolfSparty on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 10:34

Marc Summers wrote:Whole Foods is great. They have the best products ever there, and prices have gotten much better since I started shopping there about 7 years ago.

Yeah, considering they slap an organic sticker on things that aren't organic.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by steveschneider on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 10:50

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

Yeah, considering they slap an organic sticker on things that aren't organic.

You are correct.

I buy from a few local farmers at the markets and I swear their food is better than anything I can get at the grocery store. It's fresher, it's grown ethically and it tastes way better. The price is reasonable too because of the lower over head.

I go to the grocery store and see the word 'organic' up and down the aisles and it's really just a bunch of bull.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by NigelUno on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:03

Does organic = free range?
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by InTenSity on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:14

steveschneider wrote:

You are correct.

I buy from a few local farmers at the markets and I swear their food is better than anything I can get at the grocery store. It's fresher, it's grown ethically and it tastes way better. The price is reasonable too because of the lower over head.

I go to the grocery store and see the word 'organic' up and down the aisles and it's really just a bunch of bull.
Your local farmer can pick when product is near ripe. Look at the labeling, if you are in the NE, and getting anything from Mexico, that stuff was picked at least 10 days before hitting the shelf. They can't pick it ripe, it would never make delivery. Most everything in the NE is from hothouses in Canada, and I'd be willing to bet during the winter it is a mix of Netherlands and Mexico.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Marc Summers on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:16

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

Yeah, considering they slap an organic sticker on things that aren't organic.
I agree that Whole Foods isn't the best for organics, but they're still quite a bit better than any other retail grocer.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Jake from State Farm on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:19

InTenSity wrote:
Your local farmer can pick when product is near ripe. Look at the labeling, if you are in the NE, and getting anything from Mexico, that stuff was picked at least 10 days before hitting the shelf. They can't pick it ripe, it would never make delivery. Most everything in the NE is from hothouses in Canada, and I'd be willing to bet during the winter it is a mix of Netherlands and Mexico.

Chile is also getting in the mix pretty good in the food exporting business.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/362825

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Turtleneck on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:20

Corporate farming has corrupted food production and crippled the role of the small family farm. I am glad people are seeking locally grown options. Fuck corporate agriculture.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:22

Let's keep it real here folks. This isn't about organic vs. non organic. This is about Liberals.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by steveschneider on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:29

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Let's keep it real here folks. This isn't about organic vs. non organic. This is about Liberals.

I'm sure these local farmers I'm buying from are pretty conservative white christians...that's alright though, this great nation was built on compromise.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by LoneWolfSparty on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:31

NigelUno wrote:Does organic = free range?

Yes. Otherwise chickens and other animals are overly fattened by eating feed and not getting exercise.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Bizarro Fletch on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:35

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

Yes. Otherwise chickens and other animals are overly fattened by eating feed and not getting exercise.

No, organic does not = free range.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/difference-between-organic-freerange-chicken-79293.html
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by LooseGoose on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:38

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Let's keep it real here folks. This isn't about organic vs. non organic. This is about Liberals.

Don't politicize my thread you son of a bitch. I'll grant you that pinko liberal hippies may have started the organic movement but the solid conservative small farmers have jumped right in once they saw the $$ to be made. So overall it's a bipartisan capitalist love festival.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Rocinante on Tue 23 Dec 2014 - 11:44

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Let's keep it real here folks. This isn't about organic vs. non organic. This is about Liberals.

Did somebody call me?

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by green night on Thu 25 Dec 2014 - 8:05

Turtleneck wrote:Corporate farming has corrupted food production and crippled the role of the small family farm. I am glad people are seeking locally grown options. Fuck corporate agriculture.

I honestly don't think it's corporate farming .... it's that many children don't want any part of the farming business. Go get a good degree and work 40 hrs a week ... a couple weeks off every year and go to florida or maine.

The point is that farming is hard work and you don't make great $ ... always susceptible to commodity prices. You should be hedging but it's hard to take a lower price in the future than what something is selling for now, especially if you're not sophisticated. Large capital intensive business.

My grandparents were farmers ... my parents, no way. Me -- no fricken way.

BTW, these corporate farmers ... they're the guy that parents farmed and then they buy 3 or 4 other family farms because they're for sale (see above reasons). These are the typical corporate farms.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Cameron on Thu 25 Dec 2014 - 22:24

NigelUno wrote:Does organic = free range?

No, they're different, but both are essentially marketing ploys and excuses to charge more for what are essentially the same products.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Snake Plissken on Thu 25 Dec 2014 - 23:05

Rocinante wrote:

Did somebody call me?
Yes
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by HT on Thu 25 Dec 2014 - 23:24

Organic is just a scam to get you to fork over more money.

Buying local is much better than buying organic.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by xsanguine on Fri 26 Dec 2014 - 0:12

green night wrote:

I honestly don't think it's corporate farming .... it's that many children don't want any part of the farming business.  Go get a good degree and work 40 hrs a week ... a couple weeks off every year and go to florida or maine.  

The point is that farming is hard work and you don't make great $ ... always susceptible to commodity prices.   You should be hedging but it's hard to take a lower price in the future than what something is selling for now, especially if you're not sophisticated.  Large capital intensive business.  

My grandparents were farmers ... my parents, no way.   Me -- no fricken way.  

BTW, these corporate farmers ... they're the guy that parents farmed and then they buy 3 or 4 other family farms because they're for sale (see above reasons).   These are the typical corporate farms.  

Exactly. No one wants to work hard anymore and many just want others to do the things for them that are necessary to survive but "too hard" (poor babies).

That's why most men these days have become faceless, atrophied paper pushers that make telephone calls all day and call it "working". There still are some real men out there, though, but they're rare.

I feel bad for women, most of all... because they have to deal with the overwhelming saturation of beta males with office hands.

It's actually just worse for all of humankind because some woman is actually going to mate with one of these soft, delicate creatures that we call "men" by a technicality despite their effeminate, emasculated existence... so they end up creating weaker offspring as a result. It's a shame.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by HT on Fri 26 Dec 2014 - 9:27

green night wrote:

I honestly don't think it's corporate farming .... it's that many children don't want any part of the farming business.  Go get a good degree and work 40 hrs a week ... a couple weeks off every year and go to florida or maine.  

The point is that farming is hard work and you don't make great $ ... always susceptible to commodity prices.   You should be hedging but it's hard to take a lower price in the future than what something is selling for now, especially if you're not sophisticated.  Large capital intensive business.  

My grandparents were farmers ... my parents, no way.   Me -- no fricken way.  

BTW, these corporate farmers ... they're the guy that parents farmed and then they buy 3 or 4 other family farms because they're for sale (see above reasons).   These are the typical corporate farms.  

I would agree...somewhat. Farming takes a ton of work, and I'm not interested in it more because of the time commitment (I have grandparents who grow apples and now my cousins do and I help out at the orchard and barn in my free time). It's a lot of time, and some of the work involved in it really sucks (like pruning trees in the dead of the Western NY winter).

I disagree about the money part, though. Some crops like corn and soybeans...yeah, they're not viable unless you have a large operation. But growing crops like apples, peaches, pears and cherries is good money. During the fall, we'll make $1,000 a Saturday net profit on apples alone. During the peach harvest during the summer, we usually make about $2100 net profit on a Saturday with peaches alone, and then a similar amount with Nectarines on top of it.

If you grow the right crops, it's really good money.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Turtleneck on Fri 26 Dec 2014 - 13:28

green night wrote:

I honestly don't think it's corporate farming .... it's that many children don't want any part of the farming business.  Go get a good degree and work 40 hrs a week ... a couple weeks off every year and go to florida or maine.  

The point is that farming is hard work and you don't make great $ ... always susceptible to commodity prices.   You should be hedging but it's hard to take a lower price in the future than what something is selling for now, especially if you're not sophisticated.  Large capital intensive business.  

My grandparents were farmers ... my parents, no way.   Me -- no fricken way.  

BTW, these corporate farmers ... they're the guy that parents farmed and then they buy 3 or 4 other family farms because they're for sale (see above reasons).   These are the typical corporate farms.  

I should have been more specific. I was referring to the net impact of corporate dominated food production, and especially the consolidation of the agricultural market around a limited number of ag giants. One of those impacts is forcing once small family farms to expand or die. For me this has really undermined food production and driven from the picture the family farm that we Americans love to romanticize about.


Last edited by Turtleneck on Tue 1 Sep 2015 - 14:58; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by NigelUno on Tue 1 Sep 2015 - 14:51

Mods.

Do your job.

Merge.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by LooseGoose on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 9:59

And more from those wonderful "organic" farms.

Organic Crop Insurance Abuse Hides in Plain Sight

“Pure and simple, they’ll harvest this field with a disc,” Carroll says. “No yield means big bucks. Rest assured, failure is rewarded because the Risk Management Agency (RMA) will pay up in full.”

A field of weeds can pay better than a field of corn, and costs almost nothing to produce. Plant seed, run a cultivator with a wink and a nod, and walk away. This is a skin-and-bones crop production formula where less means more. No inputs, no sweat equity, no management, no harvest, but plenty of profit in a scheme plucking millions from the pockets of U.S. taxpayers. Carroll and a growing number of Texas farmers say a crop insurance racket is hiding in plain sight.

Carroll claims growers are gaming the organic crop insurance system and pushing land rent for conventional producers.

“They plant, walk away, and let the grass take over. Come harvest time, the insurance adjustor shows up and zeroes it out. Insurance money is in the bag,” he explains.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 10:07

Isn't raw milk considered organic? Honest question, I don't really get the rules for what is considered organic.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 10:09

remember.. don't exercise your right to purchase what you want to purchase.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by LooseGoose on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 10:15

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Isn't raw milk considered organic? Honest question, I don't really get the rules for what is considered organic.

Raw milk would only be organic if harvested from certified organic cows. And that's become a joke today too, check post 1 in this thread. Organic milk is coming from the same factory farms as your other milk. That's why you need to find a nice clean farm to buy you pure raw milk. Well, unless you let TN scare you - then go get a gill of whiskey.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Nordic on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 10:47

I like organic food, I think it tastes better
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Triple Sparty on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 11:17

Anything I can do to eliminate use of chemicals is good in my book.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Triple Sparty on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 11:19

And I'm shocked that people, assuming the article is accurate even though no interview/comment from actual fed, are taking advantage of a government program. Properly price in externalities from conventional farming and we wouldn't have to subsidize organic.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 11:36

Nordic wrote:I like organic food, I think it tastes better
it does.. much healthier, too.

I find that I look and feel better in my jorts and MSU jersey after a good organic food binge.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by LooseGoose on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 11:40

I'll wait for TN to start the "organic food is covered in shit" thread.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by The_Dude on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 12:32

Nordic wrote:I like organic food, I think it tastes better

Cage free free eggs and hormone free chicken tatses better for sure.

Not sure if I can tell the difference in a blind taste test between, lets say, and organic cucumber or head of romaine and non organic.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by CheesySpartan on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 12:51

We are members at our local co-op which has 4 locations around the city.  I try to do my shopping there as they have the largest local, organic market available.  In WI, an obvious agricultural heavy state, its easy to get a wide range of wonderful, local fruits, vegetables, meats and grains.  It costs more but the quality is superb and the money goes back into the local economy so its a win-win IMO.

https://www.outpost.coop/community/vendor/


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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by LooseGoose on Fri 9 Dec 2016 - 12:59

CheesySpartan wrote:We are members at our local co-op which has 4 locations around the city.  I try to do my shopping there as they have the largest local, organic market available.  In WI, an obvious agricultural heavy state, its easy to get a wide range of wonderful, local fruits, vegetables, meats and grains.  It costs more but the quality is superb and the money goes back into the local economy so its a win-win IMO.

https://www.outpost.coop/community/vendor/


I'm all for local. Farmer's markets. Ag co-ops. CSAs. I'm very skeptical of organic. I've been on the inside and seen just how shitty the whole system is. It started out great and has now been 80-90% perverted.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by LooseGoose on Mon 6 Mar 2017 - 11:35

Caged Egg producing chickens.


Cage Free Egg producing chickens. Yep - that's worth $1 or more a dozen.



Animal activists defeated by court in egg case

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by GRR Spartan on Mon 6 Mar 2017 - 12:23

I have done business with the Herbuck family in Ionia. They supply eggs to Meijer, Spartan Stores, some of Walmart and McDonalds for MI , Northern IN and northern Ohio.

About 3 years ago they invested millions to be a Heartland supplier. Special barns, feed even filtered water. The told me they were already doing "organic" with a smaller flock off site.

Look on any food conglomerate web site and you'll see they have gone on a buying spree of organic food producers the same way the beer giants have bought up craft beers.
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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by tGreenWay on Mon 6 Mar 2017 - 13:31

Unless it's changed recently, Herbruck's supplies all the McDonald's east of the Mississippi.

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Re: Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Post by Watch Out Pylon! on Mon 6 Mar 2017 - 13:37

GRR Spartan wrote:I have done business with the Herbuck family in Ionia.  They supply eggs to Meijer, Spartan Stores, some of Walmart and McDonalds for MI , Northern IN and northern Ohio.  

About 3 years ago they invested millions to be a Heartland supplier.  Special barns, feed even filtered water.  The told me they were already doing "organic" with a smaller flock off site.  

Look on any food conglomerate web site and you'll see they have gone on a buying spree of organic food producers the same way the beer giants have bought up craft beers.

Grew up in Ionia. That egg farm stinks horribly in the summer. Like you're on the verge of puking if you happen to drive by it with the window down and the wind is blowing the full stench your way bad.
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