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Thread #500...Your least favorite MSU QB

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Post by tGreenWay 2014-04-30, 00:31

duffy munn wrote:


Nope about 5 girls before Mrs. Yarema, who is also hot.


I think it was some beauty from Alpha Phi, but after so many years, who knows.
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Post by tanfan! 2014-04-30, 05:09

Martin Spartan wrote:Hoyer seemed to over throw his receiver more than any other QB. He drove me crazy, but I didn't hate him. Dowdell would be my only hated QB.

Get the **** out of here you pussy
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Post by Martin Spartan 2014-04-30, 08:04

Tanfan! wrote:

Get the **** out of here you pussy

Good to see you Tanny, how have you been?
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Post by Notorious GiB 2014-04-30, 08:08

Martin Spartan wrote:

Good to see you Tanny, how have you been?

You can't ban anyone here you whiny little bitch.
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Post by Martin Spartan 2014-04-30, 08:13

Notorious GiB wrote:

You can't ban anyone here you whiny little bitch.

Hi Gary, how have you been?
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Post by I Still Hate Weber State 2014-04-30, 08:13

NigelUno wrote:

I think I defended the coaches selection of a QB.  I don't think I nominated Maxwell for the September Heisman.

Oh that's right. Your "opinion" was that the coaches were right. That's why you constantly bumped the Cook>Maxwell thread the first few weeks of the season and conveniently stopped doing that after the ND game. No one proclaimed Maxwell was a great QB (well, maybe Wingfanjim), but you were definitely in the camp that he was a better option than Cook.

I think the coaches are right 95% of the time, but they make mistakes just like everyone else. They have forgotten more about football than I will ever know, but their judgment on Maxwell was clouded by how much they had invested in him and how much they liked him as a person.
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Post by NigelUno 2014-04-30, 08:23

I Still Hate Weber State wrote:

Oh that's right. Your "opinion" was that the coaches were right. That's why you constantly bumped the Cook>Maxwell thread the first few weeks of the season and conveniently stopped doing that after the ND game. No one proclaimed Maxwell was a great QB (well, maybe Wingfanjim), but you were definitely in the camp that he was a better option than Cook.

I think the coaches are right 95% of the time, but they make mistakes just like everyone else. They have forgotten more about football than I will ever know, but their judgment on Maxwell was clouded by how much they had invested in him and how much they liked him as a person.

I think the coaches thought Maxwell was the best option in 2012, and ultimately thought Cook was the best option in 2013.

They go to practice, so I'm going to trust their decision making on that.  Saying they started Maxwell because they liked him as a person is kind of a reach in my opinion.  They're paid to win games.

I never said Maxwell was better than Cook. I said the coaches would start who they thought was the best QB.
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Post by NigelUno 2014-04-30, 08:28

Martin Spartan wrote:

Hi Gary, how have you been?

Maybe a mod should merge this portion of the thread into the 'Carrying over a Grudge' thread.
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Post by Space Coyote 2014-04-30, 08:29

Giant Moose wrote:Maxwell. He's took a Rose Bowl Champion-level team and made them struggle to be bowl eligible.

I feel like Maxwell gets the unfair brunt of MSU fans - as QBs that don't win often do from fan bases - when the problem was certainly at least just as much around him.

Like it or not, but the OL for MSU in 2012 was awful. Some young guys, some injuries, but it ended with Bell getting hit in the backfield on what seemed like the majority of snaps only for him to make some minor miracle and make something decent out of it. On top of that, his protection was pretty awful for similar reasons. After taking hit after hit, often times far too early, he started being forced to get the ball out earlier and with more heat. But, then the WRs kept messing up routes - or even running the wrong routes all together - and dropping passes that were thrown right in their hands.

Long story short, I do think Cook proved to be the better QB last season, but Maxwell had most of the tools, and frankly got a bit of the Joey Harrington treatment between the ears and with happy feet. But that happened because of what happened around him, not because of him directly. Complain about not having the mental fortitude to get back up and get his confidence back in the right direction, but the coaches weren't just totally BSing with their praise of him before the 2012 season.
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Post by Blanch32 2014-04-30, 08:33

Notorious GiB wrote:Schultz was awful.

This over and over again. Scum can personally thank him for their half title along w the heisman
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Post by Blanch32 2014-04-30, 08:34

Giant Moose wrote:Maxwell. He's took a Rose Bowl Champion-level team and made them struggle to be bowl eligible.

Nope that was rouchshar. Don't believe me? Rewatch our first 3 games of The season BC we were still running his offense
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Post by Space Coyote 2014-04-30, 08:37

NigelUno wrote:

I think the coaches thought Maxwell was the best option in 2012, and ultimately thought Cook was the best option in 2013.

They go to practice, so I'm going to trust their decision making on that.  Saying they started Maxwell because they liked him as a person is kind of a reach in my opinion.  They're paid to win games.

I never said Maxwell was better than Cook.  I said the coaches would start who they thought was the best QB.

I think many fan's judgement on the issue is clouded by what Cook ended up becoming, and not what he was when there was a QB controversy. People always talk about Cook in the BWW bowl, but frankly he was 4/11 and on half his passes it either seemed like he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn or risked a turnover in a very bad place (something at least Maxwell was less prone to do). Then, to start 2013, Cook's mechanics were still all sorts of a mess, he was still highly inconsistent, still struggled making reads more than your basic concepts, and wasn't really trusted to put the ball down field for good reason. It wasn't until his confidence started rolling and his mechanics started improving that he became the QB people are thinking of him now. But at the time of the QB controversy, it wasn't as cut and dry as it's made out.
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Post by I Still Hate Weber State 2014-04-30, 08:38

NigelUno wrote:

I think the coaches thought Maxwell was the best option in 2012, and ultimately thought Cook was the best option in 2013.

They go to practice, so I'm going to trust their decision making on that.  Saying they started Maxwell because they liked him as a person is kind of a reach in my opinion.  They're paid to win games.  

But isn't that just like you making fun of people for arguing "I was right at the time"? The coaches were wrong about Maxwell, in 2013 at the very least. So, just because they ultimately figured it out, doesn't mean that they made the right decision to begin with. Having the opinion that the coaches are infallible, making fun of people who disagree, and then believing that your opinion was right just because the coaches corrected their mistake is BS.

I'm not saying that the coaches only played him because they liked him as a person. I'm saying that they gave him more opportunities than they should have because they had a long held belief that he was going to be the guy and they really wanted him to succeed on a personal level as well.
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Post by Blanch32 2014-04-30, 08:39

Surprised at the hate for dowdell. Dude was never suppose to be a starter and only played BC smoker was out and slappy didn't want Stanton.

My only problem with the dude was his refusal to run naked boot legs. Do that on the goaline against uofm in ot and we win that one in 2005
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Post by Spartan Pride 2014-04-30, 08:40

Andrew "walk out of bounds on 4th and 20" Maxwell.


...as a player anyway
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Post by tanfan! 2014-04-30, 08:51

Martin Spartan wrote:

Good to see you Tanny, how have you been?

Hey pussy. You can't abuse your rod powers here. Here you are bashing a player.  That's a banable offense on the rcmb. Oh the hypocrisy of pussyfied mod who uses that forum to get back at all the cool kids who abused him growing up. You can commiserate with your fellow tea blowers on the rcmb as we slowly take your business away. Well have out own tailgates in the fall as the posters here can actually carry on a conversation outside of cyberspace.  You and your social misfit pals can continue to hide in moms basement picking your collective noses and whacking it to picks of women who would never associate with you. In the meantime, Keep monitoring the high school halls of the tcmb. That's your claim to fame. I gotta laugh at you pal. Just gotta laugh.  Your ilk drove everyone of the cool kids off the board.  Your ilk is slowly destroying Trevor's board.  This board is going to continue to grow and prosper as more and more people find out about it. Your paid shills won't have a chance over here. Bring it you bitch.


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Post by NigelUno 2014-04-30, 09:27

I Still Hate Weber State wrote:

But isn't that just like you making fun of people for arguing "I was right at the time"? The coaches were wrong about Maxwell, in 2013 at the very least. So, just because they ultimately figured it out, doesn't mean that they made the right decision to begin with. Having the opinion that the coaches are infallible, making fun of people who disagree, and then believing that your opinion was right just because the coaches corrected their mistake is BS.

I'm not saying that the coaches only played him because they liked him as a person. I'm saying that they gave him more opportunities than they should have because they had a long held belief that he was going to be the guy and they really wanted him to succeed on a personal level as well.

My opinion is that the coaches play who they think will give them the best chance to win. If you want to argue the other side, feel free.
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Post by I Still Hate Weber State 2014-04-30, 09:39

NigelUno wrote:

My opinion is that the coaches play who they think will give them the best chance to win.  If you want to argue the other side, feel free.  

Give me a break. Your argument was that people thinking that Maxwell shouldn't be the starter before the season were wrong because the coaches wouldn't possibly play the wrong guy. The coaches owned up to being wrong by ultimately benching Maxwell, but you just can't admit that you were wrong in this instance. Instead, you deflect by trying to turn it into a "you think you know more than the coaches" argument.
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Post by MSULordyoda 2014-04-30, 09:50

ErnieMcCracken wrote:Gus Ornstein was pretty terrible. Did he ever start?

He may have started one or two games when Schultz was hurt or Saban was just tired of Schultz.

My vote goes to Schultz though.
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Post by NigelUno 2014-04-30, 09:55

I Still Hate Weber State wrote:

Give me a break. Your argument was that people thinking that Maxwell shouldn't be the starter before the season were wrong because the coaches wouldn't possibly play the wrong guy. The coaches owned up to being wrong by ultimately benching Maxwell, but you just can't admit that you were wrong in this instance. Instead, you deflect by trying to turn it into a "you think you know more than the coaches" argument.

I said the coaches would play the guy who they thought gave them the best chance to win. That can change (at any time in a game, or in a season), and obviously did change. Isn't part (or all) of your argument that you did know more than the coaches?

What am I wrong about?

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Post by AvgMSUJoe 2014-04-30, 10:00

I can't hate on any dude who went out and gave it his all.
& I seriously can't think of a QB that totally just tanked a season.
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Post by I Still Hate Weber State 2014-04-30, 10:16

NigelUno wrote:

I said the coaches would play the guy who they thought gave them the best chance to win.  That can change (at any time in a game, or in a season), and obviously did change.  Isn't part (or all) of your argument that you did know more than the coaches?  

What am I wrong about?

     

You made your "argument" while simultaneously calling out people who thought Maxwell should sit. Agreeing with the coaches when they are wrong does not make you right. You are of the mindset that if you agree with all coaching decisions, you can never be wrong, but that would mean that you think the coaches never make mistakes. Is that what you think? In the end, the coaches admitted their mistake by sitting Maxwell. Yet you still contend that you were right.

Just because I thought Maxwell shouldn't play doesn't mean that I think I know more than the coaches. In this particular instance did I realize that Maxwell didn't have it before the coaches did? Sure. In know way does that mean I think I know more than the coaches. It just means that they made a mistake. They sure as hell kept putting Bennie Fowler and Tony Lippett in games after I thought they would never be mediocre WRs. I was 100% dead fucking wrong on that one.
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Post by tanfan! 2014-04-30, 10:25

NigelUno wrote:

I said the coaches would play the guy who they thought gave them the best chance to win.  That can change (at any time in a game, or in a season), and obviously did change.  Isn't part (or all) of your argument that you did know more than the coaches?  

What am I wrong about?

     

I do recall this being your position. The coaches then made the call that Maxwell didn't have it and thankfully they did. Everyone in the stadium wanted him replaced. They couldn't handle another year of the guy at QB.
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Post by NigelUno 2014-04-30, 10:30

I Still Hate Weber State wrote:

You made your "argument" while simultaneously calling out people who thought Maxwell should sit. Agreeing with the coaches when they are wrong does not make you right. You are of the mindset that if you agree with all coaching decisions, you can never be wrong, but that would mean that you think the coaches never make mistakes. Is that what you think? In the end, the coaches admitted their mistake by sitting Maxwell. Yet you still contend that you were right.

Just because I thought Maxwell shouldn't play doesn't mean that I think I know more than the coaches. In this particular instance did I realize that Maxwell didn't have it before the coaches did? Sure. In know way does that mean I think I know more than the coaches. It just means that they made a mistake. They sure as hell kept putting Bennie Fowler and Tony Lippett in games after I thought they would never be mediocre WRs. I was 100% dead fucking wrong on that one.

When did you realize that Cook should start? When did you know the coaches made a mistake?
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Post by I Still Hate Weber State 2014-04-30, 10:43

NigelUno wrote:

When did you realize that Cook should start?  When did you know the coaches made a mistake?  

After the spring game, in which Maxwell showed absolutely zero improvement in any area. When Maxwell was named the starter.

I will readily admit when I'm wrong, as I did above re: Fowler/Lippett. There isn't anything wrong with disagreeing with the coaches and in almost every case, they'll be right. They just weren't in that case and it's funny that even now you still think you were right in spite of everything.
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Post by NigelUno 2014-04-30, 10:48

I Still Hate Weber State wrote:

After the spring game, in which Maxwell showed absolutely zero improvement in any area. When Maxwell was named the starter.

I will readily admit when I'm wrong, as I did above re: Fowler/Lippett. There isn't anything wrong with disagreeing with the coaches and in almost every case, they'll be right. They just weren't in that case and it's funny that even now you still think you were right in spite of everything.

I'm still not following what you think I'm wrong about. I didn't say Maxwell should start. I didn't say Cook should start. I didn't say Terry should start. I didn't say O'Connor should start.

I said the coaches would start who they thought would give us the best chance to win. At that point, I think they thought Maxwell would give us the best chance to win...because they named him the starter. That doesn't make me wrong about anything.
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Post by I Still Hate Weber State 2014-04-30, 11:09

NigelUno wrote:

I'm still not following what you think I'm wrong about.  I didn't say Maxwell should start.  I didn't say Cook should start.  I didn't say Terry should start.  I didn't say O'Connor should start.

I said the coaches would start who they thought would give us the best chance to win.  At that point, I think they thought Maxwell would give us the best chance to win...because they named him the starter.  That doesn't make me wrong about anything.

Then why try to call out people who thought Cook was better than Maxwell? Like I said, I'm sure you bumped Cook threads after the USF game even after he started. What were you trying to say by doing that even after the coaches decided to start him?

Let's look at this hypothetical. Say I said that I thought Coca-Cola would make the right choice as to whether they should change their formula and you said you thought the possibility of New Coke was a disaster. Then, after Coca-Cola shelved New Coke and went back to the original formula, I said "I wasn't wrong, they ended up making the right choice."
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Post by Notorious GiB 2014-04-30, 11:56

blanch32 wrote:

This over and over again. Scum can personally thank him for their half title along w the heisman

Thanks. I had the memory of that game pretty much erased.
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Post by Punisher98 2014-04-30, 11:58

blanch32 wrote:

Nope that was rouchshar.  Don't believe me?  Rewatch our first 3 games of The season BC we were still running his offense

Lol yeah that's it. We were running Roushar's offense when we were bad, and the new one thereafter.

Well except for the ND game. We used the new offense in the Youngstown game, and went back to Roushar's system for the ND game.
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Post by NigelUno 2014-04-30, 11:59

I Still Hate Weber State wrote:

After the spring game, in which Maxwell showed absolutely zero improvement in any area. When Maxwell was named the starter.

I will readily admit when I'm wrong, as I did above re: Fowler/Lippett. There isn't anything wrong with disagreeing with the coaches and in almost every case, they'll be right. They just weren't in that case and it's funny that even now you still think you were right in spite of everything.

So, you knew Cook was better than Maxwell after the spring game?
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Post by I Still Hate Weber State 2014-04-30, 12:13

NigelUno wrote:

So, you knew Cook was better than Maxwell after the spring game?  

Isn't that what I said? Maxwell was about to be a 5th year senior and he hadn't progressed at all. Basically the only "good" play he made the entire spring game was a simple curl route that Troup slipped a tackle and took to the house. He looked just as bad as he had at the end of the season.

When did you know the coaches were wrong about Maxwell? Oh wait, they weren't according to you.
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Post by NigelUno 2014-04-30, 12:34

I Still Hate Weber State wrote:

Isn't that what I said?

That's what you say now.

After the USF game you said..."I'm not sure many people unequivocally said that Cook was better than Maxwell..."

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Post by tanfan! 2014-04-30, 13:13

NigelUno wrote:

That's what you say now.

After the USF game you said..."I'm not sure many people unequivocally said that Cook was better than Maxwell..."


Guys like Martin started banning me whenever I posted "Team Cook." Duffy would go nuts whenever I posted stuff saying Cook should start. Ban Tanny!
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Post by NigelUno 2014-04-30, 13:14

Tanfan! wrote:

Guys like Martin started banning me whenever I posted "Team Cook."  Duffy would go nuts whenever I posted stuff saying Cook should start.  Ban Tanny!  

I already put duffy on notice.
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Post by I Still Hate Weber State 2014-04-30, 13:35

NigelUno wrote:

That's what you say now.

After the USF game you said..."I'm not sure many people unequivocally said that Cook was better than Maxwell..."


And I'm sure that was in reference to the idea that everyone who didn't want Maxwell to start was labeled "Team Cook" (and only "Team Cook"). Did I have my reservations about Cook? Sure, especially after not performing the first two games. Did I think there was any chance Maxwell was the guy? No. I argued time and again that we had seen enough of Maxwell to know that he couldn't take the team where it should go. I'm sure after the spring game I argued that Cook should start over Maxwell.
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Post by NigelUno 2014-04-30, 13:47

I Still Hate Weber State wrote:

And I'm sure that was in reference to the idea that everyone who didn't want Maxwell to start was labeled "Team Cook" (and only "Team Cook"). Did I have my reservations about Cook? Sure, especially after not performing the first two games. Did I think there was any chance Maxwell was the guy? No. I argued time and again that we had seen enough of Maxwell to know that he couldn't take the team where it should go. I'm sure after the spring game I argued that Cook should start over Maxwell.

After the USF game, you said..."I was definitely advocating for Cook (or really any of the other guys) to get a shot, but it was based on Maxwell's lack of production. I'm not sure many people unequivocally said that Cook was better than Maxwell, but that he had traits that warranted some more playing time at the expense of Maxwell."

If you knew Cook was better after the spring game, why does it appear that you were backtracking a bit after the USF game? Or are you using some revisionist history?
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Post by Blanch32 2014-04-30, 14:01

Punisher98 wrote:

Lol yeah that's it. We were running Roushar's offense when we were bad, and the new one thereafter.

Well except for the ND game. We used the new offense in the Youngstown game, and went back to Roushar's system for the ND game.

Not correct blower. Ysu sucked. We didn't run The new offense entirely until iowa. Nd we tried that junk read opt that cook cannot run. Would have been nice to iron out that play vs garbage teams....
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Thread #500...Your least favorite MSU QB - Page 2 Empty Re: Thread #500...Your least favorite MSU QB

Post by I Still Hate Weber State 2014-04-30, 14:33

NigelUno wrote:

After the USF game, you said..."I was definitely advocating for Cook (or really any of the other guys) to get a shot, but it was based on Maxwell's lack of production. I'm not sure many people unequivocally said that Cook was better than Maxwell, but that he had traits that warranted some more playing time at the expense of Maxwell."

If you knew Cook was better after the spring game, why does it appear that you were backtracking a bit after the USF game?  Or are you using some revisionist history?

You're right. Apparently I didn't know that Cook was "better" than Maxwell. After the spring game I advocated for Cook to play over Maxwell. I knew that Cook was at least as good, had some different skills, and needed to play over Maxwell because Maxwell had shown he wasn't the guy. I knew that it wasn't worth wasting another season with Andrew Maxwell as the QB no matter how great the coaches said he looked in practice or how great an arm he had or how well he grasped the offense. Then again, you still thought Maxwell should be playing when he came in against ND right? You know, since the coaches thought so.

I'll stick with my opinion on the issue and you can stick with your opinion that coaches never make mistakes and, therefore, you are never wrong.

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Post by Nommad2 2014-04-30, 14:33

duffy munn wrote:

You may want to look at the record book for MSU QB's. And consider his head coach and his love affair with the running game. It's amazing that Yarema is still top ten in nearly every QB stat in school history.
Take away his senior season, and his completion rate was 56%. 28 td's vs 22 INTs. I think the only category he leads at MSU is negative rushing yrds, at a whopping minus-318  Thread #500...Your least favorite MSU QB - Page 2 502811600  Remember, these stats don't count his senior season, where he upped his game to a decent level. don't know what you're looking at.

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Post by Rook 2014-04-30, 15:05

Stoking Smoker

Was said above, and I offset slightly for giving us the gold from the clockgate game. But the kid was a major tool on campus. Team sucked in large part to his problems and attitude in 2002. Of course Smoker sucking also helped get Bobby fired, but then we got JLS. He squandered a ton of potential.

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