Republicans are idiots.

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-05, 18:38

Democrats are only slightly better.

Viva la revolucion'!

by **steveschneider** 2014-05-06, 11:42

Rocinante wrote:Democrats are only slightly better.

Viva la revolucion'!

I'm to the point where I think the general public needs to take a big share of the blame. I think apathy is a huge problem.

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-06, 15:17

steveschneider wrote:

I'm to the point where I think the general public needs to take a big share of the blame. I think apathy is a huge problem.

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-06, 15:18

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-06, 15:19

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-06, 15:21

by **Cym Jim** 2014-05-06, 16:29

Rocinante wrote:

Now that's just going too far. When does the new season start?

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-06, 19:14

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-06, 19:14

by Big Ten Referee 2014-05-07, 00:27

People are inherently stupid. Seriously. Absolute fucking morons. Political affiliation doesn't really affect how stupid you are.

by **The_Dude** 2014-05-07, 09:19

We desperately need term limits. No more career politicians that are detached from reality. Anyone that has been in DC over a decade...you gone. Long gone are the days of gov't working for the people.

by **The_Dude** 2014-05-07, 09:37

Big Ten Referee wrote:People are inherently stupid. Seriously. Absolute fucking morons. Political affiliation doesn't really affect how stupid you are.

A big reason why people are stupid is because we have a dishonest media that doesnt report the truth and beats lame stories into the ground. The populace doesn't know anything because they get their news from psychos with an agenda instead of honest, un-biased reporting. Media activism has fucked the country up.

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-07, 10:04

Big Ten Referee wrote:People are inherently stupid. Seriously. Absolute fucking morons. Political affiliation doesn't really affect how stupid you are.

No, but there might be a correlation.

by **The_Dude** 2014-05-07, 10:19

Rocinante wrote:

No, but there might be a correlation.

Ah, yes. If you don't agree with my political opinions you must be a fucking idiot. Lol

by MasonGuy 2014-05-07, 10:58

I am a big fan of no government, but that hasn't caught on yet.

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-07, 12:05

The_Dude wrote:

Ah, yes. If you don't agree with my political opinions you must be a fucking idiot. Lol

Or how about "if you demonstrate you're a fucking idiot by railing against straw man issues that have been trumpeted by powers that want to deflect your attention to meaningless issues while they **** you over at every turn by chipping away at your civil rights and propping up their own interests, you must be a fucking idiot?"

Idiot.

by **steveschneider** 2014-05-07, 12:09

The_Dude wrote:We desperately need term limits. No more career politicians that are detached from reality. Anyone that has been in DC over a decade...you gone. Long gone are the days of gov't working for the people.

I hear a lot of people thinking that term limits will be a major fix. I just don't see it really. I think all you will do is end up with a brand new set of greedy crooks. Those guys are all bought and paid for, and serve corporate interests.

by **The_Dude** 2014-05-07, 12:32

steveschneider wrote:

I hear a lot of people thinking that term limits will be a major fix. I just don't see it really. I think all you will do is end up with a brand new set of greedy crooks. Those guys are all bought and paid for, and serve corporate interests.

Possibly. But what it does it it forces the politicians to have to go back into the real
world and provide for themselves after they are done serving. I think you would attract less of the me first politicians if they realize running for office no longer makes you a millionaire and a lifetime supply off the gravy train.

That and the fact you simply become too detached from reality and what the average American needs when you serve for 40 years. It's anti American imo to have someone serve that long.

by **The_Dude** 2014-05-07, 12:32

Rocinante wrote:

Or how about "if you demonstrate you're a fucking idiot by railing against straw man issues that have been trumpeted by powers that want to deflect your attention to meaningless issues while they **** you over at every turn by chipping away at your civil rights and propping up their own interests, you must be a fucking idiot?"

Idiot.

Yikes. Take a chill pill brah.

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-07, 12:34

The_Dude wrote:

Yikes. Take a chill pill brah.

You take a chill pill you fucking asshole bitch motherfucker cocksucker!!!!

Republicans are idiots. 4198636888

by **steveschneider** 2014-05-07, 12:44

The_Dude wrote:

Possibly. But what it does it it forces the politicians to have to go back into the real
world and provide for themselves after they are done serving. I think you would attract less of the me first politicians if they realize running for office no longer makes you a millionaire and a lifetime supply off the gravy train.

That and the fact you simply become too detached from reality and what the average American needs when you serve for 40 years. It's anti American imo to have someone serve that long.

Most of those guys when they leave the senate or congress head straight off to lobbying, Advocacy, academia, or to some posh job in the private sector. Some even re-enter politics and run for governor or even end up as president. I really just don't see it as some big fix and I think most are able to maintain influential positions after the fact.

by **The_Dude** 2014-05-07, 12:48

Rocinante wrote:

You take a chill pill you fucking asshole bitch motherfucker cocksucker!!!!

by **The_Dude** 2014-05-07, 12:50

steveschneider wrote:

Most of those guys when they leave the senate or congress head straight off to lobbying, Advocacy, academia, or to some posh job in the private sector. Some even re-enter politics and run for governor or even end up as president. I really just don't see it as some big fix and I think most are able to maintain influential positions after the fact.

Well, the obvious thing is that when you have term limits, you don't become obsessed with just getting re-elected. That means you don't have to be a slave to the big $$ interests because you can't win your seat again. Although, as you have stated, if they ruffled feathers as a lame duck that could lead to burned bridges for them with a cushy job after politics.

by **steveschneider** 2014-05-07, 16:18

The_Dude wrote:

Well, the obvious thing is that when you have term limits, you don't become obsessed with just getting re-elected. That means you don't have to be a slave to the big $$ interests because you can't win your seat again. Although, as you have stated, if they ruffled feathers as a lame duck that could lead to burned bridges for them with a cushy job after politics.

One area I'd love to see some limits is on the SCOTUS. I think we'd all do better if we flushed through judges a little faster.

by **xsanguine** 2014-05-07, 23:33

steveschneider wrote:

I'm to the point where I think the general public needs to take a big share of the blame. I think apathy is a huge problem.

How the general public even care when they've never been given a choice in the first place?

by **xsanguine** 2014-05-07, 23:35

The_Dude wrote:We desperately need term limits. No more career politicians that are detached from reality. Anyone that has been in DC over a decade...you gone. Long gone are the days of gov't working for the people.

When were those days exactly?

by MasonGuy 2014-05-09, 09:54

xsanguine wrote:

When were those days exactly?

1790's and even then not so much.

by Sponge Worthy 2014-05-15, 14:07

I seeked out the party of my thoughts recently..

I am conservative with money, don't believe in handouts. I am tolerant of abortions, don't give a shit about religion and beliefs in the Jesus or anyone else.

I am all for independent innovative businesses thriving and less and less regulation. Customers and commerce breed enough regulation, these days.

I am not for welfare..got to have incentive to eat and to get clothed. I am not for having a lot of babies for the propagation of any religions or beating out the Muslims or whatever.

I am pro-business and think jobs are important. I am for less debt, a strong military, but within reason.

I had to go Libertarian. It was quite simple. The Republicans are stupid for hanging onto old religious BS and tying it to their conservative and (supposed) smaller government principles. I don't buy into the whole Democratic way of giving and giving and saving every living soul if they have problems.

Life is hard, it's a cruel world, some people fail and some people thrive. It seems Libertarian to me..It's not complicated.

I'm just saying

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-15, 14:17

Libertarianism is fun until you get down to brass tacks and start talking about this or that thing that the government, through taxes, provides. Pretty soon the whole house of cards falls down as you realize how much you really depend on government programs every day, and how many you are unwilling to live without.

by Sponge Worthy 2014-05-15, 14:33

Rocinante wrote:Libertarianism is fun until you get down to brass tacks and start talking about this or that thing that the government, through taxes, provides. Pretty soon the whole house of cards falls down as you realize how much you really depend on government programs every day, and how many you are unwilling to live without.

The whole point, though, is that there are going to have to be some things we live without. If I can't afford a cell phone, I'm not going to have one. There's going to have to be a wholesale-lessoning of quality of life for this Country as our wealth and our competitiveness in the world market has shrunk. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to accept, but there isn't a Democrat or a Republican that wants to tell the people this. Period.

Libertarians at least say the truth-that we have less money so we need to spend less money. As a huge portion of our population has become mentally ill, uneducated, on drugs, generally focked up, well, I'm sorry, but there are going to have to be some people who suffer. Nobody wants to just say that.

You're right in that it's impossible to turn back time, but we are in need of a huge re-set. If that means unpaved roads and cars that need new shocks more often, so be it. If it means no cell phones for a lot of people..or for fat "starving" people to be hungry, or for the postal service to close up, or for Prisons to house less people, or mental hospitals to take in fewer patients, or for students who are mentally challenged to not have one teacher assigned to them all day, or for people to lose their homes when they realize they can't afford their mortgage any more, or for the government just let people get on a focking airplane and take their chances with terrorism (one of my biggest pet-peeve programs)...it goes on and on..

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-15, 14:39

Sponge Worthy wrote:

The whole point, though, is that there are going to have to be some things we live without. If I can't afford a cell phone, I'm not going to have one. There's going to have to be a wholesale-lessoning of quality of life for this Country as our wealth and our competitiveness in the world market has shrunk. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to accept, but there isn't a Democrat or a Republican that wants to tell the people this. Period.

Libertarians at least say the truth-that we have less money so we need to spend less money. As a huge portion of our population has become mentally ill, uneducated, on drugs, generally focked up, well, I'm sorry, but there are going to have to be some people who suffer. Nobody wants to just say that.

You're right in that it's impossible to turn back time, but we are in need of a huge re-set. If that means unpaved roads and cars that need new shocks more often, so be it. If it means no cell phones for a lot of people..or for fat "starving" people to be hungry, or for the postal service to close up, or for Prisons to house less people, or mental hospitals to take in fewer patients, or for students who are mentally challenged to not have one teacher assigned to them all day, or for people to lose their homes when they realize they can't afford their mortgage any more, or for the government just let people get on a focking airplane and take their chances with terrorism (one of my biggest pet-peeve programs)...it goes on and on..

I mean... I get it, but I just don't think a majority of people would come anywhere close to agreeing with you.

by Sponge Worthy 2014-05-15, 14:56

Rocinante wrote:

I mean... I get it, but I just don't think a majority of people would come anywhere close to agreeing with you.

It's like..the biggest problem we have. People are stupid too, so we're sort of ..DUN

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-15, 15:01

Sponge Worthy wrote:

It's like..the biggest problem we have. People are stupid too, so we're sort of ..DUN

Or we could, like, not live in a fucking caveman society where it's kill or be killed, maybe go the other way with it and take care of each other thereby instilling everyone with a sense of self worth, instead of worshipping the almighty dollar and deifying people who accumulate it.

One is about as likely as the other.

I tend to think we're better than animals.

by Sponge Worthy 2014-05-15, 15:55

Rocinante wrote:

Or we could, like, not live in a fucking caveman society where it's kill or be killed, maybe go the other way with it and take care of each other thereby instilling everyone with a sense of self worth, instead of worshipping the almighty dollar and deifying people who accumulate it.

One is about as likely as the other.

I tend to think we're better than animals.

If no one is allowed to fail, no one is allowed to succeed. That's not necessarily about $ either. People have to be driven and $ is the most common tool that gets humans reward for their brains and their hard work. It's a slippery slope of Communism (ie fraud and corruption) and ribbons being handed out to every kid when you talk about focusing on instilling "self worth", because kids learn pretty quickly how to abuse that psychology and reward system. It has been proven over and over.

I'm pretty sure we are animals, too. We're still figuring out how to deal with the thing that makes us very different-the knowledge that we're going to die..

I'm just saying

by **Rocinante** 2014-05-15, 16:11

Sponge Worthy wrote:

If no one is allowed to fail, no one is allowed to succeed. That's not necessarily about $ either. People have to be driven and $ is the most common tool that gets humans reward for their brains and their hard work. It's a slippery slope of Communism (ie fraud and corruption) and ribbons being handed out to every kid when you talk about focusing on instilling "self worth", because kids learn pretty quickly how to abuse that psychology and reward system. It has been proven over and over.

I'm pretty sure we are animals, too. We're still figuring out how to deal with the thing that makes us very different-the knowledge that we're going to die..

I'm just saying

I don't think it's been "proven over and over" that people are motivated by failure. There will be lazy and hardworking people in every culture forever. What has been proven is that people work harder when they feel a part of something larger than themselves. When they feel responsible to those around them. A community. Holy shit that sounds like COMMUNISM!!!

Republicans are idiots. 1550444538

So are you addicted to the swill bin yet?

by Sponge Worthy 2014-05-15, 16:24

Rocinante wrote:

So are you addicted to the swill bin yet?

Fock me, I think I need to just stick with my best instincts and stay the Hell away tongue

There is just no way to "win" a discussion on politics, religion, or anything else. I have what I believe to be good values, and frankly it pisses me off when I see perfectly good people (or what appear to be) getting all bent about stuff that has no solution (eg Gun control) Sigh..

As I said, I'm a lover, not a fighter tongue

by **xsanguine** 2014-05-15, 17:56

MasonGuy wrote:

1790's and even then not so much.

If you were one of the kidnapped Africans, or an atheist, or gay, or a woman, or....... definitely not so much.

by **xsanguine** 2014-05-15, 17:58

Rocinante wrote:Libertarianism is fun until you get down to brass tacks and start talking about this or that thing that the government, through taxes, provides. Pretty soon the whole house of cards falls down as you realize how much you really depend on government programs every day, and how many you are unwilling to live without.

I think the bulk of people could live without these government programs. The fact is, we don't have a choice at this point. They're intertwined in just about every facet of our lives that it's easy to say "you can't live without it"... people aren't as helpless as you make them out to be, Roc.

The government is made up of the same people that would exist if there wasn't a fictitious legal entity called "government", too... they're not some unhuman supernatural force.

by Sponge Worthy 2014-05-15, 18:11

xsanguine wrote:

I think the bulk of people could live without these government programs. The fact is, we don't have a choice at this point. They're intertwined in just about every facet of our lives that it's easy to say "you can't live without it"... people aren't as helpless as you make them out to be, Roc.

The government is made up of the same people that would exist if there wasn't a fictitious legal entity called "government", too... they're not some unhuman supernatural force.

See..this is why I hate myself sometimes and suffer badly in places like this. I can't respond near as eloquently or quickly as this and I totally agree with you. I am not a good debator. Masturbator? Hell yeah, but.. tongue

by Sponge Worthy 2014-05-15, 18:22

Rocinante wrote:

I don't think it's been "proven over and over" that people are motivated by failure. There will be lazy and hardworking people in every culture forever. What has been proven is that people work harder when they feel a part of something larger than themselves. When they feel responsible to those around them. A community. Holy shit that sounds like COMMUNISM!!!

So are you addicted to the swill bin yet?

I didn't say they were motivated by failure, I mean that when you motivate by just saying "you're great, no matter what, here's money, here's a ribbon, here's a job!" you are doing society a huge disservice. It has bred a society of people expecting the next President to hand out more and more, and not a soul who fears hunger, unemployment, or losing their homes.

Call me heartless but I've read and heard way too many of my own friends and acquaintances who are, for example, upside down on their mortgages because they were stupid and took full advantage of a bad loan (and they knew it!) and are bailed out by the banks just throwing up their hands and letting them skate..

When I was a kid, we ate from our own garden and worked our asses off just to EAT because my parents lived in total fear and were motivated by their (perceived) huge mortgage every month at 12% interest or we'd lose the farm, literally. I always thought that was the way it ought to be. Being out on your ear is a helluva motivator to work hard, save money and eat smart. We never once even thought of asking for any kind of assistance or free mortgage payments from the government. Probably because they didn't exist Wink

It was fear of failure that motivated my parents and ultimately us kids. It's the same way Tom Izzo is motivated by fear. Not by failure, but the fear of it. It's right on the border of being motivated to succeed..

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