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tOfficial MSU Basketball Recruiting Thread: Class of 2018

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Post by kingstonlake Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:29 am

Herbie Green wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

So, what?

If they gave him a more severe punishment than others who transferred for "athletically motivated" reasons, they are being coerced into doing so by petty, vindictive adults. I would guess there's a possibility they will get sued.

Coaches can leave at any time for better opportunities. Same with AD's, administrators, teachers, etc.

Why shouldn't a kid be able to transfer?

Good point, maybe they should not only ignore all transfer rules but take it a step further and start paying them salaries so they are treated the same as the paid professionals.


Which ones? The ones for transfer to a public school or a private one? Tillman comes to mind. Cass Tech, etc.
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Post by NigelUno Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:38 am

Herbie Green wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

So, what?

If they gave him a more severe punishment than others who transferred for "athletically motivated" reasons, they are being coerced into doing so by petty, vindictive adults.  I would guess there's a possibility they will get sued.

Coaches can leave at any time for better opportunities.  Same with AD's, administrators, teachers, etc.

Why shouldn't a kid be able to transfer?  

Good point, maybe they should not only ignore all transfer rules but take it a step further and start paying them salaries so they are treated the same as the paid professionals.


It's not a difficult concept to understand Herbie.  

Loyalty gets thrown out the window when Coaches move on.

But, they hold the kids to a higher standard.

It's hypocritical.

(And you did kind of ignore that there seems to be different applications of the rules for different players...)


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Post by Clarett's Folly Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:38 am

NigelUno wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

yeah but the entire angle is based on playing with a future MSU teammate

So, what?

If they gave him a more severe punishment than others who transferred for "athletically motivated" reasons, they are being coerced into doing so by petty, vindictive adults. I would guess there's a possibility they will get sued.

Coaches can leave at any time for better opportunities. Same with AD's, administrators, teachers, etc.

Why shouldn't a kid be able to transfer?

This is where I come down on this. If the tables were turned and the blocking school were to be getting the player instead of losing one I'm guessing they wouldn't be quite so principled.
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Post by Herbie Green Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:01 pm

kingstonlake wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

Good point, maybe they should not only ignore all transfer rules but take it a step further and start paying them salaries so they are treated the same as the paid professionals.


Which ones? The ones for transfer to a public school or a private one? Tillman comes to mind. Cass Tech, etc.

The actual rules
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Post by NigelUno Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:02 pm

Clarett's Folly wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

So, what?

If they gave him a more severe punishment than others who transferred for "athletically motivated" reasons, they are being coerced into doing so by petty, vindictive adults. I would guess there's a possibility they will get sued.

Coaches can leave at any time for better opportunities. Same with AD's, administrators, teachers, etc.

Why shouldn't a kid be able to transfer?

This is where I come down on this. If the tables were turned and the blocking school were to be getting the player instead of losing one I'm guessing they wouldn't be quite so principled.

The local high school lost a player. He "moved" (wink, wink) to a nearby school. I didn't think there would be any way in hell he would be allowed to play. His brothers still go to schools in the district. But, they did an investigation and cleared him. Will be fun when the teams meet.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:04 pm

duffy munn wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Wonder what duff has to say about this rule.

The rule is dumb. Not doing enough research and violating it is dumber.

I love it duff! Thanks for your thoughts.
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Post by Herbie Green Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:06 pm

NigelUno wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

Good point, maybe they should not only ignore all transfer rules but take it a step further and start paying them salaries so they are treated the same as the paid professionals.


It's not a difficult concept to understand Herbie.  

Loyalty gets thrown out the window when Coaches move on.

But, they hold the kids to a higher standard.

It's hypocritical.

(And you did kind of ignore that there seems to be different applications of the rules for different players...)

yeah no shit

So what do you do about it? Pick and choose which rules to follow based on personal opinion? The world is full of stupid rules. If you want to have an argument about changing them I am not interested. Perhaps they can successfully sue the MHSAA so a kid can have the liberty to play basketball on a super team with his AAU teammates and the world will become a better place for us to live.
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Post by By-Tor Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:15 pm

They appealed and lost. Shitty. But why tack on another 90 days of ineligibility? Let the kid play when the semster ends. Seems like a common sense compromise. Why drag this through lawsuits.
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Post by kingstonlake Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:43 pm

Herbie Green wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

It's not a difficult concept to understand Herbie.  

Loyalty gets thrown out the window when Coaches move on.

But, they hold the kids to a higher standard.

It's hypocritical.

(And you did kind of ignore that there seems to be different applications of the rules for different players...)

yeah no shit

So what do you do about it? Pick and choose which rules to follow based on personal opinion? The world is full of stupid rules. If you want to have an argument about changing them I am not interested. Perhaps they can successfully sue the MHSAA so a kid can have the liberty to play basketball on a super team with his AAU teammates and the world will become a better place for us to live.

Like say Cass tech or grand rapids Christian?
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Post by Herbie Green Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:00 pm

kingstonlake wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

yeah no shit

So what do you do about it? Pick and choose which rules to follow based on personal opinion? The world is full of stupid rules. If you want to have an argument about changing them I am not interested. Perhaps they can successfully sue the MHSAA so a kid can have the liberty to play basketball on a super team with his AAU teammates and the world will become a better place for us to live.

Like say Cass tech or grand rapids Christian?

is that going to be the argument - "they broke the rules too"?

Not sure that is a good argument but you would still need to spell out the specifics of a case that is directly comparable for me to listen
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Post by steveschneider Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:07 pm

So assuming this kid can't play for the season, what are his options? Go back to the original school?

Also, what are the implications for us if this kid misses the season? Can he do anything to be ready for college or will this negatively impact his freshman year?
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:14 pm

It doesn't really affect us Steve. He could enroll early I suppose.
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Post by NigelUno Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:16 pm

steveschneider wrote:So assuming this kid can't play for the season, what are his options? Go back to the original school?

Also, what are the implications for us if this kid misses the season? Can he do anything to be ready for college or will this negatively impact his freshman year?

Going back to original school wouldn't work.

And any transfer would also technically be athletically motivated at this point.

I think MHSAA is going to get sued, or he just goes to a place like La Lu.
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Post by Clarett's Folly Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:18 pm

Herbie Green wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Like say Cass tech or grand rapids Christian?

is that going to be the argument - "they broke the rules too"?

Not sure that is a good argument but you would still need to spell out the specifics of a case that is directly comparable for me to listen

Marcus Bingham transferred from on of the Grand Rapids publics to GRCC with a 1.3 GPA and didn't miss any time. Neither he nor his parents changed addresses.
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Post by Clarett's Folly Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:19 pm

NigelUno wrote:
steveschneider wrote:So assuming this kid can't play for the season, what are his options? Go back to the original school?

Also, what are the implications for us if this kid misses the season? Can he do anything to be ready for college or will this negatively impact his freshman year?

Going back to original school wouldn't work.

And any transfer would also technically be athletically motivated at this point.

I think MHSAA is going to get sued, or he just goes to a place like La Lu.

He really should just go to LaLu for a year.
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Post by steveschneider Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:26 pm

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:It doesn't really affect us Steve. He could enroll early I suppose.

If that's the case then I don't give a shit about it. Go Green!
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:28 pm

steveschneider wrote:So assuming this kid can't play for the season, what are his options? Go back to the original school?

Also, what are the implications for us if this kid misses the season? Can he do anything to be ready for college or will this negatively impact his freshman year?

To be honest with ya Steve, he’s a 3 star and his best offer outside of us is Oakland. No matter what happens, it probably won’t impact MSU hoops all that much.
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Post by Herbie Green Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:34 pm

Clarett's Folly wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

is that going to be the argument - "they broke the rules too"?

Not sure that is a good argument but you would still need to spell out the specifics of a case that is directly comparable for me to listen

Marcus Bingham transferred from on of the Grand Rapids publics to GRCC with a 1.3 GPA and didn't miss any time. Neither he nor his parents changed addresses.

Sounds like a school of choice move.  And his dad pointed out that he should not even have been elgible with the 1.3 so I doubt his former school tried to block the move or they had much difficulty convincing the MHSAA of the academic aspect.  He now has a 3.0 at GRR.

And he still had to sit out a semester. as required for school of choice move (different than a physical move)

Next.


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Post by Clarett's Folly Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:35 pm

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
steveschneider wrote:So assuming this kid can't play for the season, what are his options? Go back to the original school?

Also, what are the implications for us if this kid misses the season? Can he do anything to be ready for college or will this negatively impact his freshman year?

To be honest with ya Steve, he’s a 3 star and his best offer outside of us is Oakland. No matter what happens, it probably won’t impact MSU hoops all that much.

Wow... that's like Travis Trice levels of bad.
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Post by Clarett's Folly Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:39 pm

Herbie Green wrote:
Clarett's Folly wrote:

Marcus Bingham transferred from on of the Grand Rapids publics to GRCC with a 1.3 GPA and didn't miss any time. Neither he nor his parents changed addresses.

Sounds like a school of choice move.  And his dad pointed out that he should not even have been elgible with the 1.3 so I doubt his former school tried to block the move or they had much difficulty convincing the MHSAA of the academic aspect.  He now has a 3.0 at GRR.

Next.

So a kid with a 4.0 GPA doesn't enjoy the same freedoms as a kid with a 1.3 GPA?
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:42 pm

Clarett's Folly wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

To be honest with ya Steve, he’s a 3 star and his best offer outside of us is Oakland. No matter what happens, it probably won’t impact MSU hoops all that much.

Wow... that's like Travis Trice levels of bad.

Well now that you bring up that huge sample size I’m going to change my mind.
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Post by Clarett's Folly Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:46 pm

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
Clarett's Folly wrote:

Wow... that's like Travis Trice levels of bad.

Well now that you bring up that huge sample size I’m going to change my mind.

I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. I'm actually of the opinion that Kithier won't really contribute anything of great significance in his time here and I'm not sure what Izzo sees in him. I'm just surprised star rankings get any traction on any message board much less an MSU one.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:50 pm

Clarett's Folly wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Well now that you bring up that huge sample size I’m going to change my mind.

I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. I'm actually of the opinion that Kithier won't really contribute anything of great significance in his time here and I'm not sure what Izzo sees in him. I'm just surprised star rankings get any traction on any message board much less an MSU one.

The offer sheet can say a lot as well. But who knows we’ve had some solid contributors come from nowhere as you referenced.
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Post by Herbie Green Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:58 pm

Clarett's Folly wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

Sounds like a school of choice move.  And his dad pointed out that he should not even have been elgible with the 1.3 so I doubt his former school tried to block the move or they had much difficulty convincing the MHSAA of the academic aspect.  He now has a 3.0 at GRR.

Next.

So a kid with a 4.0 GPA doesn't enjoy the same freedoms as a kid with a 1.3 GPA?

A kid with a 1.3 doesn't enjoy the freedom of elgibility for high school basketball and so the school that illegally played him would not be inclined to try to block the transfer.
Now I don't understand how the school blocking the transfer has the actual power - unless the MHSAA just auto approves it when signed off. And/or maybe the MHSAA doesn't have the time to investigate all these cases unless they are pushed to do so.  Bingham appeared to just get the standard one semester penalty.  If he joined AAU teammates then I would think his move should have been ruled athletically motivated as well.  But I doubt the MHSAA is wasting any time reviewing AAU rosters if someone doesn't bring it up.  The Clarkston case is so high profile you could read about it in numerous newspapers not to mention the move was blocked and there was an appeal.
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Post by Clarett's Folly Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:01 pm

Herbie Green wrote:
Clarett's Folly wrote:

So a kid with a 4.0 GPA doesn't enjoy the same freedoms as a kid with a 1.3 GPA?

A kid with a 1.3 doesn't enjoy the freedom of elgibility for high school basketball and so the school that illegally played him would not be inclined to try to block the transfer.
Now I don't understand how the school blocking the transfer has the actual power - unless the MHSAA just auto approves it when signed off. And/or maybe the MHSAA doesn't have the time to investigate all these cases unless they are pushed to do so.  Bingham appeared to just get the standard one semester penalty.  If he joined AAU teammates then I would think his move should have been ruled athletically motivated as well.  But I doubt the MHSAA is wasting any time reviewing AAU rosters if someone doesn't bring it up.  The Clarkston case is so high profile you could read about it in numerous newspapers not to mention the move was blocked and there was an appeal.

The mistake the Kithier family made was not acting like there was a social reason behind the transfer.
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Post by steveschneider Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:06 pm

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
steveschneider wrote:So assuming this kid can't play for the season, what are his options? Go back to the original school?

Also, what are the implications for us if this kid misses the season? Can he do anything to be ready for college or will this negatively impact his freshman year?

To be honest with ya Steve, he’s a 3 star and his best offer outside of us is Oakland. No matter what happens, it probably won’t impact MSU hoops all that much.

I don't follow recruiting at all, but this season has proven to me that it comes down to NBA talent to be at the top of college hoops. This current team is loaded and I hope we keep this level of talent and performance coming.


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Post by kingstonlake Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:06 pm

The school (Dakota) who regularly accepts athletic transfers is ass hurt an athlete left and blocked his move. Bottom line.
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Post by steveschneider Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:10 pm

kingstonlake wrote:The school (Dakota) who regularly accepts athletic transfers is ass hurt an athlete left and blocked his move. Bottom line.

This.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:16 pm

The real question steve is how is this going to affect Kentucky
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Post by steveschneider Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:22 pm

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:The real question steve is how is this going to affect Kentucky

I think Cal is bored and is looking for a way into the big league.
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Post by kingstonlake Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:28 pm

If the kids family moved to Clarkston and they're paying taxes to the school district a simple lawyer hiring would end this.
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Post by DWags Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:28 pm

Just spit baling here, but could the kid early enroll at MSU?   If he's only going to practice why not get him checked in in January and start early.  Practicing with the MSU squad has to be better than playing games against H.S. kids.  

Probably already been thought of and not been approved.
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Post by kingstonlake Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:35 pm

DWags wrote:Just spit baling here, but could the kid early enroll at MSU?   If he's only going to practice why not get him checked in in January and start early.  Practicing with the MSU squad has to be better than playing games against H.S. kids.  

Probably already been thought of and not been approved.

He's not banned from attending school classes
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Post by By-Tor Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:50 pm

Clarett's Folly wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Well now that you bring up that huge sample size I’m going to change my mind.

I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. I'm actually of the opinion that Kithier won't really contribute anything of great significance in his time here and I'm not sure what Izzo sees in him. I'm just surprised star rankings get any traction on any message board much less an MSU one.
Not every guy is Miles Bridges or Nick Ward on the team. There is room and need for the Ben Carters too.
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Post by steveschneider Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:20 pm

By-Tor wrote:
Clarett's Folly wrote:

I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. I'm actually of the opinion that Kithier won't really contribute anything of great significance in his time here and I'm not sure what Izzo sees in him. I'm just surprised star rankings get any traction on any message board much less an MSU one.
Not every guy is Miles Bridges or Nick Ward on the team. There is room and need for the Ben Carters too.

True, but this team has more top talent than usual and it’s showing.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:22 pm

steveschneider wrote:
By-Tor wrote:Not every guy is Miles Bridges or Nick Ward on the team. There is room and need for the Ben Carters too.

True, but this team has more top talent than usual and it’s showing.

It turns out when you have more talent you usually win, Steve. Back to you in the studio, Bobby Sak.
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tOfficial MSU Basketball Recruiting Thread: Class of 2018 - Page 11 Empty Re: tOfficial MSU Basketball Recruiting Thread: Class of 2018

Post by steveschneider Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:27 pm

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

True, but this team has more top talent than usual and it’s showing.

It turns out when you have more talent you usually win, Steve. Back to you in the studio, Bobby Sak.

It takes the 3 star player 3-4 years to become valuable contributors and as we’ve seen this year their best purpose is to provide depth when the other team is worn out.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:02 pm

Herbie is the realest motherfucker out here in these streets. He's not going to let any of your guys' mamby pamby homer bullshit slide.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:06 pm

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Herbie is the realest motherfucker out here in these streets. He's not going to let any of your guys' mamby pamby homer bullshit slide.

Honestly, it’s quite refreshing - especially after reading that obsession thread. Some of the swill is setting the standard for fan message boards.
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tOfficial MSU Basketball Recruiting Thread: Class of 2018 - Page 11 Empty Re: tOfficial MSU Basketball Recruiting Thread: Class of 2018

Post by tGreenWay Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:13 pm

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Herbie is the realest motherfucker out here in these streets. He's not going to let any of your guys' mamby pamby homer bullshit slide.

Honestly, it’s quite refreshing - especially after reading that obsession thread. Some of the swill is setting the standard for fan message boards.

You know, there's no one forcing you to read the obsession thread. You could take a pass on it.
Just a thought from an admirer who thinks you're the ginchiest.
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