I'm trying to understand why working class lower middle class people vote against their self interest.

DWags wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

No it's not. It's statism in it's purest form.

See you at the red wings game brother.

When are we going?

DWags wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

When are we going?

When you buy us two over priced tickets and five beers that cost 11 dollars a piece.

I'll pick you up on Tuesday. Should be a good one.

Tom Nichols‏Verified account @RadioFreeTom  22h22 hours ago
I've taken a lot of steam for saying that Trump voters were know-nothings motivated by resentment and not much else. And yet ./1

Tom Nichols‏Verified account @RadioFreeTom  22h22 hours ago
In case after case, where Trump fails or betrays his base, the answer: "Doesn't matter. Not what they think is important." /2

Tom Nichols‏Verified account @RadioFreeTom  22h22 hours ago
Obamacare? Won't matter.
Mad at Sessions? Well, whatever.
Golfing more than Obama? Sure, why not. On and on. So that raises a question. /3

Tom Nichols‏Verified account @RadioFreeTom  22h22 hours ago
If none of this is what matters to them, it seems that all that *does* matter is that CNN and the NYT are constantly shocked. /4

Tom Nichols‏Verified account @RadioFreeTom  22h22 hours ago
(This, despite Trump now directly saying stunning stuff to @maggieNYT, who is supposed to be the enemy.) /5

Tom Nichols‏Verified account @RadioFreeTom  22h22 hours ago
So if Obamacare, Russia, debt, etc, aren't what matter, then how can I be wrong that all that *does* matter is their ignorant resentment? /6

Tom Nichols‏Verified account @RadioFreeTom  22h22 hours ago
Because nothing shakes the 35-38% base, nor the 80+% of the GOP who'd still vote for him. But on...issues? Issues clearly don't matter. /7

Tom Nichols‏Verified account  @RadioFreeTom 22h22 hours ago
So until something breaks through "he's making all the right people mad," pretty clear to me that the base is: ignorance and resentment. /8x

Note: This is cross posted with this post. Maybe it is time to stop trying to explain Trump's support on policy grounds (he is not delivering) or anti-elitism (he is as elite as they come), and recognize that is simply childish resentment by people who need everything dumbed down for them because they are intellectually lazy.

Steve Bannon made the election about Hillary Clinton and why she should be hated.

Now Trump is using that same anger to go after Jeff Flake and oher Republicans who won't be his toadies.

Heard an interview with Joshua Green whose book on Bannon hit the stores & Amazon last week.

He had a few points that stuck with me.
Bannon realized before almost everyone that the GOP attacks on Bill Clinton about fidelity wouldn't be a winning strategy because not enough voters cared.

The Whitewater conspiracy, Vince Foster suicide theories were too far out there for most big donors.

But Bannon realized there were (and are) still people in DC making a living as anti-Clinton operative including folks like Kellyanne Conway and her husband. You can't make a living as an anti Bush2 or anti Obama operative but anti Clinton hasn't ever gone away.

Bannon enlisted those anti Clinton operatives and dug into all the specifics of The Clinton Foundation and framed all the donations legally made by foreign leaders as devious or worse. Bannon set that narrative before he became part of the Trump campaign.

But along with it Bannon has brought in people who "traditional" and moderate Republicans are struggling to tolerate. But Bannon and Trump are willing to risk losing them to get more Bannon style conservatives even if it means going after GOP incumbents.

Others are thinking about this too Wags....

What’s Wrong With the Democrats? If the party cares about winning, it needs to learn how to appeal to the white working class.

Democrats have sold out the working class

...and this reminds me of some Dems I know....

The problem is that feeling morally and intellectually superior to the white working class is the Democrats’ one unshakeable tenet. It’s the main reward people get for being Democrats in the first place. How are you going to keep the party together if you take that away? And how are you going to get the white working class to vote for you if you’re constantly smearing and denigrating them? People will put up with a lot of things, but not with contempt. And, let’s be honest, they have just as much contempt for the nonwhite working class, they just make some minor efforts to hide it.

said it before, and I'll say it again - overall, Americans are pretty stupid.

LooseGoose wrote:Others are thinking about this too Wags....

What’s Wrong With the Democrats? If the party cares about winning, it needs to learn how to appeal to the white working class.

Democrats have sold out the working class

...and this reminds me of some Dems I know....

The problem is that feeling morally and intellectually superior to the white working class is the Democrats’ one unshakeable tenet. It’s the main reward people get for being Democrats in the first place. How are you going to keep the party together if you take that away? And how are you going to get the white working class to vote for you if you’re constantly smearing and denigrating them? People will put up with a lot of things, but not with contempt. And, let’s be honest, they have just as much contempt for the nonwhite working class, they just make some minor efforts to hide it.

I don't really think they need to sell out to the white working class tbh.

InTenSity wrote:Other than right wing pundits pushing that democrats feel morally and intellectually superior to the working class, where is proof of that? Both my dad and uncle have said that I feel superior to them, which doesn't make any sense because I don't, maybe I just come off that way.

Are you superior to them?

Aren't you supposed to feel superior to people who think a man who is clearly using the presidency for his own financial benefit is on their side? Aren't you supposed to feel superior to people who claim to be Christians but elected a moral reprobate who openly declared his intention to and history of grabbing women by their genitals? I mean... you are... at least intellectually.

This attack on "liberal elites" is fascinating.  It is as if they have convinced the majority of working class people that education is actually the enemy.  The more you learn the less you actually know.  Actually, I dont think this is anything new as there has always been a distrust of educated outsiders.  Trump just managed to harness it.  You elite liberals are so smart that you think you understand their intetests better than they themselves do.
You are the enemy living in your fancy neighborhood away from the people.

I am superior to GreenWay and Travis.

Turtleneck wrote:I am superior to GreenWay and Travis.

I actually wanted to start a poll about elite intellectual posters.

Herbie Green wrote:This attack on "liberal elites" is fascinating.  It is as if they have convinced the majority of working class people that education is actually the enemy.  The more you learn the less you actually know.  Actually, I dont think this is anything new as there has always been a distrust of educated outsiders.  Trump just managed to harness it.  You elite liberals are so smart that you think you understand their intetests better than they themselves do.
You are the enemy living in your fancy neighborhood away from the people.

Lol

Herbie Green wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:I am superior to GreenWay and Travis.

I actually wanted to start a poll about elite intellectual posters.

You premium, bro?

DWags wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:I am superior to GreenWay and Travis.

I am Lake Michigan to them.

You can do better than that dwags.

Also shut the fuck up boomer no one asked you your fucking opinion.

DWags wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

You can do better than that dwags.

Also shut the fuck up boomer no one asked you your fucking opinion.

Get off the Internet and back to work. Somebody's got to make money for my Social Security you dumb ass.

I'm sorry dwags I was golfing what were you whining about?

DWags wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I'm sorry dwags I was Golfing.

Did you pay taxes on your green fees and drinks?

Thanks! Gonna be gone when you get there. Hahahahaha.

You know actually I don't know. I just paid the league. Maybe they paid taxes in there? I dunno. And I just brought water today. I know, I know. I just kinda wanted nice refreshing water.

Hitler was not popular in Berlin, Bonn, Hamburg or  Munich but he was extremely popular in rural Germany’s small villages and middle size farming communities.  He won power winning those areas with overwhelming margins while losing the major metropolitan communities.

This is Trump’s MO.  He was never popular in NYC to win a mayoral election.  His numbers in most states are outside the major population centers.  

In MI Trump won’t win Detroit, Kalamazoo and probably not GR but he dominates many of the very white burbs and the low population counties.

For some “light” reading which reads like the GOP playbook in 2022 and 2024.

The Death of Democracy: Hitler’s Rise to Power and The Death of The Weimar Republic by Benjamin Carter Hett

America is a stupid country.

GRR Spartan wrote:Hitler was not popular in Berlin, Bonn, Hamburg or  Munich but he was extremely popular in rural Germany’s small villages and middle size farming communities.  He won power winning those areas with overwhelming margins while losing the major metropolitan communities.

This is Trump’s MO.  He was never popular in NYC to win a mayoral election.  His numbers in most states are outside the major population centers.  

In MI Trump won’t win Detroit, Kalamazoo and probably not GR but he dominates the very white burbs.

For some “light” reading which reads like the GOP playbook in 2022 and 2024.

The Death of Democracy: Hitler’s Rise to Power and The Death of The Weimar Republic by Benjamin Carter Hett

Hitler didn't rise to power by winning elections per say.  His party was in the minority when the Conservative German President appointed him as Chancellor.  Once he had that position, he simple outlawed the other Parties and then began winning elections.  Something like has gone on in Hungary in the last 15 years and the Republicans are trying to pull off with voter suppression in the States in which they have control now, which is what all the noise about the "stolen election" is being used to try to do.

Agree with the tik-tok that some people vote to win the approval of their friends.

Thanks for reviving this thread, there are some good posts in it.

The son of Herschel Walker, the Republican nominee for U.S. Senate in Georgia, accused his father of "lying" and "making a mockery" of his family after a report alleged Walker had paid for his then-girlfriend to have an abortion in 2009.

https://www.axios.com/2022/10/04/herschel-walker-son-abortion

Why is Walker so close in the polls?

Is it the new Republican mantra to elect sinners if they claim to be anti-abortion now?

Trapper Gus wrote:

The son of Herschel Walker, the Republican nominee for U.S. Senate in Georgia, accused his father of "lying" and "making a mockery" of his family after a report alleged Walker had paid for his then-girlfriend to have an abortion in 2009.

https://www.axios.com/2022/10/04/herschel-walker-son-abortion

Why is Walker so close in the polls?

Is it the new Republican mantra to elect sinners if they claim to be anti-abortion now?

They'll elect anyone if they claim to be anti-abortion. See MTG.

Jake from State Farm wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

https://www.axios.com/2022/10/04/herschel-walker-son-abortion

Why is Walker so close in the polls?

Is it the new Republican mantra to elect sinners if they claim to be anti-abortion now?

They'll elect anyone if they claim to be anti-abortion. See MTG.

Evangelicals said it right here in the latest episode of "The Run Up":

The Run Up Podcast: A new class of American evangelical leaders is shaking up the Republican Party — and raising the stakes of the midterm elections.

[tw]1704525093454467300?s=46[/tw]

Turtleneck wrote:[tw]1704525093454467300?s=46[/tw]

Thanks for the link. :)

I love a deep dive back into tSwill lore to see our friend Guest taking up for his racist, bigoted christian sexual predator hero.

Lots of angry people who will blame everything that’s wrong in their lives on Democrats. Reagan started it in late 1979 and the anti-government line is a good way of keeping contributions continuing.

Look at the insipid things Trump says about the deficit and his reasons out of control government spending yet his loyal followers keep sending him cash that pays for his legal bills, not his campaign.

Want to see grassroots Trumpism at work? Start looking up Ottawa County Commission. What they’ve done so far (like hiring former Trump appointee and failed 2022 Congressional candidate John Gibbs to be the County Executive) hiring a former GOP lobbyist to assist him with details.

Now they are proposing cutting the County Health Department budget by 48%, making all vaccines voluntary and installing video cameras at polling places and ballot drop boxes at county offices.