I'm trying to understand why working class lower middle class people vote against their self interest.

DWags wrote:I’ve come to realize their interest is hate. And. Trump gives them that in spades.

In the words of my buddy GreenWay, "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

The current GOP, in the US Senate and House are all about headline of the day issues the GOP researchers identify as being able to generate quick emotional responses and media coverage.

For example; The US is less than two weeks away from a government shutdown due to GOP hardliners and the pliable House Speaker putting off the vote to get their budget demands met. Senator Tuberville (R) AL has been effective in freezing over 200 promotions of high ranking US military officers over abortion, contraceptives and women’s healthcare at US military bases.

Yet the issue dominating the airwaves and TV screen is the US Senate dress code because Senator Fetterman (D) PA shows up to vote wearing a hoody and long shorts.

That’s our America.

DWags wrote:I’ve come to realize their interest is hate. And. Trump gives them that in spades.

it's easy to get caught up in the nuance, the speeches, the polls, the sympathetic mainstream media narratives of folksy politicians sitting around rural diners talking to white people about how hard their life is..

but it all boils down to this: for the first time in their pathetic lives, the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator made their hate, their anger, their paranoia, their racism matter. He made it okay for them to be the deplorable, disgusting selves that they've always been but never felt motivated to work to become decent people.

finally, someone filled in the cracks of their broken lives and, for that, they will never turn their back on him.

for their entire lives, they couldn't attach themselves to anything meaningful to the greater good of community, humanity. They were marginalized and lived in their racist, hate-filled, bigoted, misogynistic bubble. He gave them something to connect with, something that energized them. He and the mainstream media gave them a voice, told them that they were the ones being disenfranchised and that he and he alone could make them whole. And it became their drug.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

DWags wrote:I’ve come to realize their interest is hate. And. Trump gives them that in spades.

it's easy to get caught up in the nuance, the speeches, the polls, the sympathetic mainstream media narratives of folksy politicians sitting around rural diners talking to white people about how hard their life is..

but it all boils down to this: for the first time in their pathetic lives, the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator made their hate, their anger, their paranoia, their racism matter. He made it okay for them to be the deplorable, disgusting selves that they've always been but never felt motivated to work to become decent people.

finally, someone filled in the cracks of their broken lives and, for that, they will never turn their back on him.

for their entire lives, they couldn't attach themselves to anything meaningful to the greater good of community, humanity. They were marginalized and lived in their racist, hate-filled, bigoted, misogynistic bubble. He gave them something to connect with, something that energized them. He and the mainstream media gave them a voice, told them that they were the ones being disenfranchised and that he and he alone could make them whole. And it became their drug.

yes, it's basically cult indoctrination 101 on a national scale.

Cults, including QAnon and it’s off shoot conspiracy groups are forming a coalition that is large enough to swing elections and/or create situations where voters to stay away from polls.

Here’s a link from CNN about Michael Protzman, a guy from Seattle who started down the rabbit hole when he began believing the precious metals websites after the 2008 financial collapse.

That led to more conspiratorial sites and before his death, Ptotzman believed John Kennedy Jr was alive, secretly advising Trump and would be Trump’s choice to be his VP in 2024.  He believed General George Patton was Donald J Trumps “real” father.

Protzman and 200 others gathered at Dealey Plaza in Nov ‘21 where John Kennedy Jr was to come out of hiding and bring along his parents whose deaths had been faked.

Fantastical and scary stuff.  But there are 1000’s in the US who are buying into theories like these and believe the Democrats are tied to satanic rituals and pedophilia.
The latter is a repeat of a centuries old theme going back to the Spanish Inquisition where Jews was taking children for rituals.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/23/us/qanon-trump-kennedy-protzman-cult-invs/index.html

Maybe Trump will get enough votes to lower the corporate tax rate again. I’m sure that will help his supporters.

Don't know where to post this... I guess this is fine.

[tw]1709637142702620777[/tw]

Meanwhile, the UAW deals include the long-sought-after “just transition” to EVs for workers, which renders much of Trump’s hyperbolic criticism moot.

He’s been awfully quiet about the strike since his ego trip to Michigan a couple of months ago — he hasn’t bothered to cheer the contracts with big pay bumps, especially for newer workers who often took other jobs to make ends meet.

It’s easy to mix in some populist rhetoric in between hurling barroom-style insults at your enemies, but what is Trump actually offering working-class voters? What did they really win during his four years in office? Is he truly on their side when the chips are down?

Trump could end up prevailing in Michigan and other swing states anyway. But with workers winning record contracts by sticking together, they just might not feel they need to gamble on another four years of Trumpian turmoil.

https://michiganadvance.com/2023/11/28/susan-j-demas-the-uaw-won-the-strike-so-why-doesnt-donald-trump-want-to-talk-about-it/

A bit arrogant to think you know what the self-interest of the working class lower middle class people is.

And btw, lower middle class is about 50k/year so a person with a UAW job is not that.

DWags wrote:Really fucking scary.

[tw]1749633617242865877?s=46&t=o_-92Ldle66XHQBlJVUMFQ[/tw]

Sad to say it but I sort of agree with Zorn, without the insulting words.

Why are the Trump voters voting for Trump?

In my belief about how people make decisions, which is a mix of things but boils down in the end to people decide based on their feelings, aka emotions, about things, are the voters voting against something they don't like or for something they do like.

Trump is telling the white Christians that he will turn the nation into a Christian paradise but getting rid of everyone who isn't like them.  So maybe that is enough for them. A sense of white privilege & a religious belief which is incompatible with the creed of the United States, both of which are very frustrating to those of us who believe in the ideals of this country.

DWags wrote:Really fucking scary.

[tw]1749633617242865877?s=46&t=o_-92Ldle66XHQBlJVUMFQ[/tw]

We are living in Vonnegut's Player Piano.

Trapper Gus wrote:

DWags wrote:Really fucking scary.

[tw]1749633617242865877?s=46&t=o_-92Ldle66XHQBlJVUMFQ[/tw]

Sad to say it but I sort of agree with Zorn, without the insulting words.

Why are the Trump voters voting for Trump?

In my belief about how people make decisions, which is a mix of things but boils down in the end to people decide based on their feelings, aka emotions, about things, are the voters voting against something they don't like or for something they do like.

Trump is telling the white Christians that he will turn the nation into a Christian paradise but getting rid of everyone who isn't like them.  So maybe that is enough for them.  A sense of white privilege & a religious belief which is incompatible with the creed of the United States, both of which are very frustrating to those of us who believe in the ideals of this country.

America is a stupid country.

and a christian country.. racist, bigoted and selfish.

all of those things play well into the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator's motivation and the mainstream media promotes it on his behalf.

my post at the top of this page sums it up better than "America is a stupid country" does, but I'm beyond trying to explain the morally vacant, deplorable, ilk and their pathetic display of christian values. At this point, after everything we've seen from "grab 'em by the pussy" to the mocking of disabled people, to a reckless disregard for a virus that killed over a million Americans, to a violent insurrection on democracy, to a rape conviction, to full assault on traditional American values, etc., they're truly not worth the energy that it takes to explain it.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Sad to say it but I sort of agree with Zorn, without the insulting words.

Why are the Trump voters voting for Trump?

In my belief about how people make decisions, which is a mix of things but boils down in the end to people decide based on their feelings, aka emotions, about things, are the voters voting against something they don't like or for something they do like.

Trump is telling the white Christians that he will turn the nation into a Christian paradise but getting rid of everyone who isn't like them.  So maybe that is enough for them.  A sense of white privilege & a religious belief which is incompatible with the creed of the United States, both of which are very frustrating to those of us who believe in the ideals of this country.

America is a stupid country.

and a christian country.. racist, bigoted and selfish.

all of those things play well into the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator's motivation and the mainstream media promotes it on his behalf.

my post at the top of this page sums it up better than "America is a stupid country" does, but I'm beyond trying to explain the morally vacant, deplorable, ilk and their pathetic display of christian values. At this point, after everything we've seen from "grab 'em by the pussy" to the mocking of disabled people, to a reckless disregard for a virus that killed over a million Americans, to a violent insurrection on democracy, to a rape conviction, to full assault on traditional American values, etc., they're truly not worth the energy that it takes to explain it.

True, I feel.

I'm not trying to explain this to Zorn or Steve, this is more for DWags.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
America is a stupid country.

and a christian country.. racist, bigoted and selfish.

all of those things play well into the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator's motivation and the mainstream media promotes it on his behalf.

my post at the top of this page sums it up better than "America is a stupid country" does, but I'm beyond trying to explain the morally vacant, deplorable, ilk and their pathetic display of christian values. At this point, after everything we've seen from "grab 'em by the pussy" to the mocking of disabled people, to a reckless disregard for a virus that killed over a million Americans, to a violent insurrection on democracy, to a rape conviction, to full assault on traditional American values, etc., they're truly not worth the energy that it takes to explain it.

True, I feel.

I'm not trying to explain this to Zorn or Steve, this is more for DWags.

you're a great American.

Here is another point of view about Trump supporters...

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/1/23/2219007/-Trump-s-secret-sauce-is-people-who-have-given-up-on-America

I'm thinking these are the same people who see The Joker" as a hero. They have personal pain that is so deep they hate the world.

DWags wrote:Idiots.

[tw]1782551472070095116?s=46&t=o_-92Ldle66XHQBlJVUMFQ[/tw]

because I'm an unusually empathetic person, I do feel bad for this guy - the system let him down. Truly conned into his political beliefs, likely rooted in religion and the manipulation of the mainstream media.

Yet, personal responsibility and accountability, at some point, has to supersede any sort of blame that can be laid at the foot of others.

A $500,000 fine seems like an absurd amount for a small business and for the “offense” committed. Like, “hey guys, how much is this fine going to be”? Desantis- “a million bajillion dollars!” Like yeah sure ok but why is that the number you’re picking.

Anyway party of personal freedom and indeed. Don’t hire those scary brown people hire children instead they scare me less and my irrational fears are the only thing that matter in the world.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/18/politics/teamsters-will-not-endorse-us-president/index.html

The International Brotherhood of Teamsters declined to endorse a presidential candidate on Wednesday after releasing internal polling that showed a majority of its members supported former President Donald Trump over Vice President Kamala Harris.

She cast the deciding vote that funded the largest privately held pension fund bailout in history. $36 billion. Fuck everyone of them.

kingstonlake wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/18/politics/teamsters-will-not-endorse-us-president/index.html

The International Brotherhood of Teamsters declined to endorse a presidential candidate on Wednesday after releasing internal polling that showed a majority of its members supported former President Donald Trump over Vice President Kamala Harris.

She cast the deciding vote that funded the largest privately held pension fund bailout in history. $36 billion. Fuck everyone of them.

But regional Teamsters have opted to go rogue. The 300,000-member West Coast Teamsters faction has thrown its support behind the vice president, signaling a strategic alignment with the Harris campaign. Ten other regional Teamsters councils have issued statements of support for Harris, including in the battleground states of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Nevada.

[tw]1836868289018098052[/tw]

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