China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
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steveschneider
TrapperGus
Turtleneck
tGreenWay
DWags
GRR Spartan
Watch Out Pylon!
kingstonlake
Robert J Sakimano
AnomanderRake
14 posters
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China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-scraps-construction-85-coal-power-plants-renewable-energy-national-energy-administration-paris-a7530571.html
So between the two largest polluters in the world, we have one that is positioning itself to be the global superpower in renewable energy, and the other is doubling down on coal and gas while denying human influence on the climate.
I for one am excited about the potential for the rest of the world to benefit from this investment. It should end up reducing the overall costs of renewable energy, and the R&D advancements can be leveraged by those that invest in renewable energy in the years to come.
So between the two largest polluters in the world, we have one that is positioning itself to be the global superpower in renewable energy, and the other is doubling down on coal and gas while denying human influence on the climate.
I for one am excited about the potential for the rest of the world to benefit from this investment. It should end up reducing the overall costs of renewable energy, and the R&D advancements can be leveraged by those that invest in renewable energy in the years to come.
AnomanderRake- Spartiate
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
it's good news for the world, for sure..
and I'm thankful that at least one of the world's superpowers is willing to invest for the good of the global community.
and I'm thankful that at least one of the world's superpowers is willing to invest for the good of the global community.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Robert J Sakimano wrote:it's good news for the world, for sure..
and I'm thankful that at least one of the world's superpowers is willing to invest for the good of the global community.
Well I wouldn't say they're doing it for altruistic means, I think they're making this investment by necessity.
Their pollution is getting absolutely out of control and they likely recognize the long term benefits to China in terms of first mover advantages, if they get ahead of the rest of the world with a massive investment in renewable energy. Also allegedly this investment is going to create millions of jobs in China so that doesn't hurt either.
AnomanderRake- Spartiate
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
I've found that most renewable energy and conservation whack jobs are all talk. I mean why stay. Obviously there's countries out there that suit their lifestyle more. But I guess it's more fun to whine about it then actually do something about it.
Typical.
Typical.
kingstonlake- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
of course they're investing in their own best interests and, yes, it coincidentally benefits the environment and, therefore, the world.AnomanderRake wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:it's good news for the world, for sure..
and I'm thankful that at least one of the world's superpowers is willing to invest for the good of the global community.
Well I wouldn't say they're doing it for altruistic means, I think they're making this investment by necessity.
Their pollution is getting absolutely out of control and they likely recognize the long term benefits to China in terms of first mover advantages, if they get ahead of the rest of the world with a massive investment in renewable energy. Also allegedly this investment is going to create millions of jobs in China so that doesn't hurt either.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
In before Goose's 1880's article on a heat wave for Oklahoma.
Watch Out Pylon!- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:In before Goose's 1880's article on a heat wave for Oklahoma.
that poor guy is so angry.. I almost feel bad for him.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
China was investing big money in solar farms to use all the solar panels produced in their factories. They created a market for the factories allowing them to improve manufacuring as they went along prior to flooding the export market.
Meanwhile in the US utility companies and their lobbyists are pushing through legislation forcing homeowners who have installed solar and wind to sell their production to the utility at wholesale pricing then bill the same customer/producer retail.
Meanwhile in the US utility companies and their lobbyists are pushing through legislation forcing homeowners who have installed solar and wind to sell their production to the utility at wholesale pricing then bill the same customer/producer retail.
GRR Spartan- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Say, Whatever Happened To 'We Can't Drill Our Way To Lower Prices'?
Palin on drilling, Romney on the Russkies.....Rs are right on some things.
Energy: Last week Royal Dutch Shell (RDSA) told investors that it expects oil prices to be "lower forever." We're still waiting for all those people who were only recently complaining about higher-forever oil prices to admit their mistake.
It wasn't that long ago that President Obama was mocking Republicans for their "three-point plan for $2 gas: Step one is drill, step two is drill, and step three is keeping drilling."
He went on to say that "the American people aren't stupid. They know that's not a plan."
Renewable energy, he said, was the only way to solve the "problem" of high oil prices.
And he kept pushing for new taxes on "old" energy to support federal subsidies for the energy supplies "of the future."
Of course, Obama wasn't the only one. There was endless talk about how Big Oil was making obscene profits while gas prices skyrocketed. There were calls for investigations into collusion among oil companies. Some wanted to bring back the Jimmy Carter-era "windfall profits tax."
Turns out drill, baby, drill was exactly what was needed.
Palin on drilling, Romney on the Russkies.....Rs are right on some things.
Guest- Guest
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Nobody, and I mean nobody in that industry can tell me they don't know that renewable and clean energy is the reason for oil dropping. And of course the more you have of something the less it will cost. But that's not the point. With the technology we have it's a matter of a decade where oil. Ecomes less and less important. Public policy or not, the market will dictate that oil is going to drop. It's like kiosks at McDonalds. Whether workers get 7.52 an hour or 14 bucks an hour, they're coming and we'll have less workers.
Can't stop technology
Can't stop technology
DWags- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
More fuel efficient cars, China is targeting 5 million electric vehicles by 2020.
Look at the US fuel efficiencies from 1990 to 2017. More vehicles using less fuel.
Drill Baby Drill for the US market was as insipid as Trump's lies about coal.
Look at the US fuel efficiencies from 1990 to 2017. More vehicles using less fuel.
Drill Baby Drill for the US market was as insipid as Trump's lies about coal.
Last edited by GRR Spartan on 2017-08-24, 16:01; edited 1 time in total
GRR Spartan- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
LooseGoose wrote:Say, Whatever Happened To 'We Can't Drill Our Way To Lower Prices'?Energy: Last week Royal Dutch Shell (RDSA) told investors that it expects oil prices to be "lower forever." We're still waiting for all those people who were only recently complaining about higher-forever oil prices to admit their mistake.
It wasn't that long ago that President Obama was mocking Republicans for their "three-point plan for $2 gas: Step one is drill, step two is drill, and step three is keeping drilling."
He went on to say that "the American people aren't stupid. They know that's not a plan."
Renewable energy, he said, was the only way to solve the "problem" of high oil prices.
And he kept pushing for new taxes on "old" energy to support federal subsidies for the energy supplies "of the future."
Of course, Obama wasn't the only one. There was endless talk about how Big Oil was making obscene profits while gas prices skyrocketed. There were calls for investigations into collusion among oil companies. Some wanted to bring back the Jimmy Carter-era "windfall profits tax."
Turns out drill, baby, drill was exactly what was needed.
Palin on drilling, Romney on the Russkies.....Rs are right on some things.
Yeah, too bad the current R president cant get it right.
tGreenWay- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Lets also not forget how the Saudis were pumping a lot more oil the past year and have only in the last five months cut back--somewhat. Add the Iranian oil to the market and, as DWags said, prices were bound to drop with so much available on the market. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but nothing Donnie has done would have had any impact, and besides the keystone announcement I don't think there's been anything but talk of big policy changes. I may be forgetting an updated policy on ANWR, but again, it's been far too soon for anything Trump has done to have had any effect on prices.
tGreenWay- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
China has created a giant panda-shaped power plant
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/china-creates-a-panda-power-plant?utm_content=buffer51368&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/china-creates-a-panda-power-plant?utm_content=buffer51368&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
So this thread is dated, and was incorrect in its facts even back in 2017 - however
Renewable electrical generation was the second largest source of electricity in the US in 2020, topped only by natural gas plants. Also new renewable generation plants, without subsidies, are the cheapest way to add additional generation and so cheap they are forcing coal fired plants out of business.
China, btw, is on a push for advanced fission reactors using sodium salts as the coolant.
Renewable electrical generation was the second largest source of electricity in the US in 2020, topped only by natural gas plants. Also new renewable generation plants, without subsidies, are the cheapest way to add additional generation and so cheap they are forcing coal fired plants out of business.
China, btw, is on a push for advanced fission reactors using sodium salts as the coolant.
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
TrapperGus wrote:So this thread is dated, and was incorrect in its facts even back in 2017 - however
Renewable electrical generation was the second largest source of electricity in the US in 2020, topped only by natural gas plants. Also new renewable generation plants, without subsidies, are the cheapest way to add additional generation and so cheap they are forcing coal fired plants out of business.
China, btw, is on a push for advanced fission reactors using sodium salts as the coolant.
I remember the Bill Gates 60 Minutes segment on the environment blew my mind and one thing he was pushing for was nuclear power and the re-design was supposed to take out all the previous risks of meltdowns.
steveschneider- Spartiate
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
steveschneider wrote:TrapperGus wrote:So this thread is dated, and was incorrect in its facts even back in 2017 - however
Renewable electrical generation was the second largest source of electricity in the US in 2020, topped only by natural gas plants. Also new renewable generation plants, without subsidies, are the cheapest way to add additional generation and so cheap they are forcing coal fired plants out of business.
China, btw, is on a push for advanced fission reactors using sodium salts as the coolant.
I remember the Bill Gates 60 Minutes segment on the environment blew my mind and one thing he was pushing for was nuclear power and the re-design was supposed to take out all the previous risks of meltdowns.
Bill Gates is partly funding TerraPower, which has several funded projects involving sodium salt cooled reactors. Sodium salt reactors have the advantage that the salts are solid below reactor operating temperatures and they use low grade uranium as fuel, so meltdowns cannot happen and the waste products are less hazardous.
edit - sorry as a newbie I cannot provide a link to Terrapower, however a search on that term will bring it up.
TrapperGus- Spartiate
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
TrapperGus wrote:steveschneider wrote:
I remember the Bill Gates 60 Minutes segment on the environment blew my mind and one thing he was pushing for was nuclear power and the re-design was supposed to take out all the previous risks of meltdowns.
Bill Gates is partly funding TerraPower, which has several funded projects involving sodium salt cooled reactors. Sodium salt reactors have the advantage that the salts are solid below reactor operating temperatures and they use low grade uranium as fuel, so meltdowns cannot happen and the waste products are less hazardous.
edit - sorry as a newbie I cannot provide a link to Terrapower, however a search on that term will bring it up.
Impressed with your knowledge. What was your take on that 60 Minutes segment (guessing you saw it). The fungi food, the concrete that traps carbon and all the green fuels. Sounds like we are going to have to go through a massive paradigm shift to survive and it's going to involve cooperation across the globe. Seeing how people can't even agree on wearing masks I feel like we are fucked.
steveschneider- Spartiate
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
steveschneider wrote:TrapperGus wrote:
Bill Gates is partly funding TerraPower, which has several funded projects involving sodium salt cooled reactors. Sodium salt reactors have the advantage that the salts are solid below reactor operating temperatures and they use low grade uranium as fuel, so meltdowns cannot happen and the waste products are less hazardous.
edit - sorry as a newbie I cannot provide a link to Terrapower, however a search on that term will bring it up.
Impressed with your knowledge. What was your take on that 60 Minutes segment (guessing you saw it). The fungi food, the concrete that traps carbon and all the green fuels. Sounds like we are going to have to go through a massive paradigm shift to survive and it's going to involve cooperation across the globe. Seeing how people can't even agree on wearing masks I feel like we are fucked.
Gosh
I have to say I am not that smart, just happen to know someone who works at TerraPower.
I remember reading somewhere about concrete which was using trapped carbon, a formula closer to the one the Romans used which lasts hundreds of years. Not really up on food production, the only item that comes to mind is that it is more carbon intense to raise meat animals than to grow plants, although in the US the difference is in the single digit percentages.
Economics, IMO, might be the fact that saves us. Renewable energy generation, as noted, is already cheaper than any other major source, and its price is still dropping while most other types are increasing. Vehicles with electric power trains have fewer bearing surfaces and less materials than IC power trains so over time with mass production they will be cheaper, too. Once the range and recharge issues are resolved electrics will take off on the markets. I am expecting that it will be possible to have vehicles which run for thousands of miles between charging, eventually.
There will be, and are, all sorts of politics, since people who work in the current industries will be afraid for their livelihoods, for one thing, and capital owners will be afraid of their loss of revenue streams.
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
The energy storage heavyweight Fluence and the solid-state battery startup QuantumScape Thursday morning announced a multiyear agreement to test and deploy QuantumScape lithium-metal tech in stationary applications.
Why it matters: Storage growth is important to enabling high levels of renewables penetration and also helps aid grid reliability. Solid-state battery tech holds the promise of higher energy density and other benefits.
The intrigue: The announcement signals the evolving business plan of QuantumScape, whose backers include VW and the Bill Gates-led Breakthrough Energy Ventures.
"While we have historically focused on automotive applications, we believe our battery technology is broadly applicable and can play a role in other sectors contributing to a lower-carbon future," CEO Jagdeep Singh said in a statement.
https://www.axios.com/battery-startup-quantumscape-energy-storage-fluence-eaf3f085-689f-445a-9b99-efe36fb11837.html
Why it matters: Storage growth is important to enabling high levels of renewables penetration and also helps aid grid reliability. Solid-state battery tech holds the promise of higher energy density and other benefits.
The intrigue: The announcement signals the evolving business plan of QuantumScape, whose backers include VW and the Bill Gates-led Breakthrough Energy Ventures.
"While we have historically focused on automotive applications, we believe our battery technology is broadly applicable and can play a role in other sectors contributing to a lower-carbon future," CEO Jagdeep Singh said in a statement.
https://www.axios.com/battery-startup-quantumscape-energy-storage-fluence-eaf3f085-689f-445a-9b99-efe36fb11837.html
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
A new report concludes — tentatively — that Europe's push to boost its energy security won't thwart the continent's climate push.
The big picture: The advisory firm DNV says more security "does not come at the cost of decarbonization and there is likely to be a small acceleration in Europe’s energy transition."
DNV's analysis sees European CO2 emissions as 2.3% lower in 2030 than they would have been absent the war.
Why it matters: Russia's war is spurring an unprecedented push to rapidly end Europe's heavy reliance on Russian oil, gas and coal. But a fast breakup creates wildcards.
Zoom in: The report sees tailwinds and headwinds for clean energy.
Tailwinds include some postponements of nuclear plant closures, more energy efficiency, and more efforts on heat pumps and renewables.
Headwinds include some gas-to-coal switching and higher battery commodity costs that inflate electric vehicle prices.
Zoom out: "At a global level, the net effect of the war on the energy transition is minor," DNV concludes.
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
https://gizmodo.com/renewable-energy-records-us-1848812405
Looks like renewable electricity keeps gaining marketshare here in the US.
In other news, however, suppy chain issues are causing higher prices for new wind generators.
Looks like renewable electricity keeps gaining marketshare here in the US.
In other news, however, suppy chain issues are causing higher prices for new wind generators.
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
In the USA we don’t choose winners and losers until the Koch Family tells the government who to choose.
GRR Spartan- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
GRR Spartan wrote:In the USA we don’t choose winners and losers until the Koch Family tells the government who to choose.
Until the increases in the costs of materials to build new wind farms, wind was kicking ass, economically, verses other forms of generation.
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2022/04/california-grid-set-record-with-97-percent-renewable-power-april-3/
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
So much support for China from our leftist posters in this old thread.
RQA- Spartiate
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
RQA wrote:So much support for China from our leftist posters in this old thread.
Is China investing in renewables a problem for you, dude, or is it that CA got close to 100% of its electricity from renewables?
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Trapper Gus wrote:RQA wrote:So much support for China from our leftist posters in this old thread.
Is China investing in renewables a problem for you, dude, or is it that CA got close to 100% of its electricity from renewables?
Dude, you can't like ANYTHING that someone bad does or you support them 100%. It's the same thought process as wanting to hold police accountable means you are anti-police.
Motown Spartan- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Motown Spartan wrote:Trapper Gus wrote:
Is China investing in renewables a problem for you, dude, or is it that CA got close to 100% of its electricity from renewables?
Dude, you can't like ANYTHING that someone bad does or you support them 100%. It's the same thought process as wanting to hold police accountable means you are anti-police.
So the bipartisn infrastucture bill in evil, got it.
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Trapper Gus wrote:Motown Spartan wrote:
Dude, you can't like ANYTHING that someone bad does or you support them 100%. It's the same thought process as wanting to hold police accountable means you are anti-police.
So the bipartisn infrastucture bill in evil, got it.
According to our resident conservatives.
Motown Spartan- Geronte
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Motown Spartan wrote:Trapper Gus wrote:
So the bipartisn infrastucture bill in evil, got it.
According to our resident conservatives.
I just didn't want to start a new thread about renewables when we already had this one.
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Seeing all sorts of stuff in energy sector stories, everything from oil companies are pumping more to the following, natural gas electricity generation has peaked.
https://news.yahoo.com/u-may-hit-peak-natural-162900976.html
https://news.yahoo.com/u-may-hit-peak-natural-162900976.html
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Transmission Line Development in the Western US.
AP News Reports on Transmission Lines
AP News Reports on Transmission Lines
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
California was 100% renewable electricity on April 28th
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Trapper Gus wrote:California was 100% renewable electricity on April 28th
April 28? Lovely.
Let's check back on July 28 when temperatures are soaring and everyone and their goat wants to run their AC at 68 degrees.
Bredo Morstoel- Spartiate
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Bredo Morstoel wrote:Trapper Gus wrote:California was 100% renewable electricity on April 28th
April 28? Lovely.
Let's check back on July 28 when temperatures are soaring and everyone and their goat wants to run their AC at 68 degrees.
Who would have thought that this would have happened ever?
Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Trapper Gus wrote:Transmission Line Development in the Western US.
AP News Reports on Transmission Lines
It's about damn time. I mean, I appreciate spending decades studying the impact on all that sand and cactus out there, but sheesh!
Of course this paragraph reminds us not to get our hopes up too high:
The Biden administration is just the latest to promise speeding up development and modernization of the nation’s energy infrastructure through expedited federal permitting and regulatory reforms. Former Presidents Barack Obama and Donald Trump also vowed to roll back bureaucracy.
Bredo Morstoel- Spartiate
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Trapper Gus wrote:Bredo Morstoel wrote:
April 28? Lovely.
Let's check back on July 28 when temperatures are soaring and everyone and their goat wants to run their AC at 68 degrees.
Who would have thought that this would have happened ever?
True!
Hey, you'll be glad to know my boat's trickle charger has been converted to solar power. I'm doing my part.
Bredo Morstoel- Spartiate
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Trapper Gus wrote:California was 100% renewable electricity on April 28th
Is that why Newsome wants to keep nuclear plants going?
RQA- Spartiate
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Re: China to invest over $361 billion in renewable energy
Calfornia's last nuclear power plant standing could get a new lease on life. California Gov. Gavin Newsom said he's looking to score some federal cash that the Biden administration set aside last month to keep the country's aging nuclear fleet up and running. That would help keep the carbon-free electricity flowing.
This!
Governor Whitmer is doing the same for the plant over by Benton Harbor.
Bulk plants, while part of the old way of managing the grid, are an interesting problem, however as technology causes more sources to be dispatchable, the model of base load sources will be reduced. Not in the near term, of course, but in the longer term.
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