Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
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msugolfguy
Turtleneck
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Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
As most of you know, the president recently gave Secretary Mattis discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan. This decision has not been well received by all, with the sharpest critics saying that the president will take center stage in the event of success, but pass blame to Mattis for any failures in the president's Afghanistan policy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/13/world/asia/mattis-afghanistan-military.html
This meant 4,000 troops being deployed to Afghanistan. Rather than winding down operations in Afghanistan, the U.S. might be ramping up operations. Afghanistan is certainly a mess, but as is suggested below, there is no clear strategy from the White House on how to move forward. This seems somewhat dangerous - deploying without a clear strategy - and at odds with what we heard from the president during the campaign.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/18/world/asia/us-troops-afghanistan-trump.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/13/world/asia/mattis-afghanistan-military.html
Mr. Trump’s approach makes a sharp break from former President Barack Obama, who tightly controlled decisions on military troops, a practice that some critics complained smacked of micromanaging. The president has relaxed the rules for counterterrorism operations in Somalia and Yemen and was quick to approve the military’s plan to fire sea-launched cruise missiles at an airfield that President Bashar al-Assad’s forces used to mount a chemical weapons attack in Syria.
Proponents say that delegating the authority to the Pentagon will enable it to carry out campaigns against the United States’ adversaries without interruptions and will allow it to respond more quickly to changes on the battlefield. The risk, critics say, is the president may become too detached from developments on the battlefield and may use this approach to distance himself from a decision that could be politically unpopular.
This meant 4,000 troops being deployed to Afghanistan. Rather than winding down operations in Afghanistan, the U.S. might be ramping up operations. Afghanistan is certainly a mess, but as is suggested below, there is no clear strategy from the White House on how to move forward. This seems somewhat dangerous - deploying without a clear strategy - and at odds with what we heard from the president during the campaign.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/18/world/asia/us-troops-afghanistan-trump.html
Instead, the Pentagon issued a news release late one afternoon last week confirming that the president had given the defense secretary, Jim Mattis, the authority to send several thousand additional troops to a war that, in its 16th year, engages about 8,800 American troops.
Mr. Trump, who writes avidly on Twitter about war and peace in other parts of the world, said nothing about the announcement. But its effect was unmistakable: He had outsourced the decision on how to proceed militarily in Afghanistan to the Pentagon, a startling break with how former President Barack Obama and many of his predecessors handled the anguished task of sending Americans into foreign conflicts.
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
I'm all for it. Let the people that know what to do go and do it.
msugolfguy- Spartiate
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
Turtleneck wrote:As most of you know, the president recently gave Secretary Mattis discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan. This decision has not been well received by all, with the sharpest critics saying that the president will take center stage in the event of success, but pass blame to Mattis for any failures in the president's Afghanistan policy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/13/world/asia/mattis-afghanistan-military.htmlMr. Trump’s approach makes a sharp break from former President Barack Obama, who tightly controlled decisions on military troops, a practice that some critics complained smacked of micromanaging. The president has relaxed the rules for counterterrorism operations in Somalia and Yemen and was quick to approve the military’s plan to fire sea-launched cruise missiles at an airfield that President Bashar al-Assad’s forces used to mount a chemical weapons attack in Syria.
Proponents say that delegating the authority to the Pentagon will enable it to carry out campaigns against the United States’ adversaries without interruptions and will allow it to respond more quickly to changes on the battlefield. The risk, critics say, is the president may become too detached from developments on the battlefield and may use this approach to distance himself from a decision that could be politically unpopular.
This meant 4,000 troops being deployed to Afghanistan. Rather than winding down operations in Afghanistan, the U.S. might be ramping up operations. Afghanistan is certainly a mess, but as is suggested below, there is no clear strategy from the White House on how to move forward. This seems somewhat dangerous - deploying without a clear strategy - and at odds with what we heard from the president during the campaign.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/18/world/asia/us-troops-afghanistan-trump.htmlInstead, the Pentagon issued a news release late one afternoon last week confirming that the president had given the defense secretary, Jim Mattis, the authority to send several thousand additional troops to a war that, in its 16th year, engages about 8,800 American troops.
Mr. Trump, who writes avidly on Twitter about war and peace in other parts of the world, said nothing about the announcement. But its effect was unmistakable: He had outsourced the decision on how to proceed militarily in Afghanistan to the Pentagon, a startling break with how former President Barack Obama and many of his predecessors handled the anguished task of sending Americans into foreign conflicts.
Our Tweeter In Chief does this all the time anyway, so I don't care much about that. I don't think there has been a good strategy in place since we first stepped foot in Afghanistan. I'm not sure if there even is one. What was our objective going in? Eliminate Bin Laden, take out Al Qaeda, and remove the Taliban from power.
Check
Debatable
Check
Sure, if we left, the Taliban will probably take control again (more control than they have now anyway). But can anyone definitively say what our end game is? Will it be mission accomplished when we "eliminate terrorism"? No, that's just silly talk. It'll be when the Afghan government can police the country themselves. When do we decide they can do that? I don't know, do you?
Watch Out Pylon!- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
Oh hella yeah, give that fucker matches bombs, whiskey and gasoline. Put him on a missile and let that fucker ride it. Blow shit up and ask questions later.
Best administration ever.
Best administration ever.
DWags- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
Anyone who thinks 4000 more troops in Afghanistan will lead to more than a claim of victory and an exit about Jan-Feb '20 so whoever is the GOP President will have a military success to claim for the Nov 20 general election is kidding themselves.
It's also a great way to justify the massive increase in military spending they have plugged into the budget.
It's also a great way to justify the massive increase in military spending they have plugged into the budget.
GRR Spartan- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
What are our options in Afghanistan? They seem limited. This war is now 16 years old with no end in sight.
https://www.rand.org/blog/2017/06/trumps-options-for-afghanistan-losing-or-not-losing.html?adbsc=social_20170626_1618581&adbid=879241075738542080&adbpl=tw&adbpr=22545453
Today, the Trump administration faces the choice of losing quickly by withdrawing from Afghanistan; losing slowly by staying at the current, clearly inadequate levels of commitment; or not losing by increasing that commitment enough to maintain a stalemate on the battlefield. This is the rationale for the few thousand additional American and European troops sought by the local American and NATO commander, General John Nicholson.
https://www.rand.org/blog/2017/06/trumps-options-for-afghanistan-losing-or-not-losing.html?adbsc=social_20170626_1618581&adbid=879241075738542080&adbpl=tw&adbpr=22545453
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
White House Limits Pentagon on Afghan Troop Level
After Trump let generals decide number of forces, classified memo put initial cap at 3,900, amid strategy review
https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-limits-pentagon-on-afghan-troop-level-1499357547
After Trump let generals decide number of forces, classified memo put initial cap at 3,900, amid strategy review
https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-limits-pentagon-on-afghan-troop-level-1499357547
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
Trump wants someone to blame if things don't go well.
GRR Spartan- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
GRR Spartan wrote:Trump wants someone to blame if things don't go well.
I think that is how he operates: takes credit for the good, shifts blame elsewhere for the bad.
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
Turtleneck wrote:GRR Spartan wrote:Trump wants someone to blame if things don't go well.
I think that is how he operates: takes credit for the good, shifts blame elsewhere for the bad.
Gosh he's the only person I've ever heard of doing that.
Guest- Guest
Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
US Presidents don't hand off all decisions to their Generals and Admirals unless it's Duckin Donny who lives in a world where it's always someone else 's fault.
GRR Spartan- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
WASHINGTON — President Trump’s advisers recruited two businessmen who profited from military contracting to devise alternatives to the Pentagon’s plan to send thousands of additional troops to Afghanistan, reflecting the Trump administration’s struggle to define its strategy for dealing with a war now 16 years old.
Erik D. Prince, a founder of the private security firm Blackwater Worldwide, and Stephen A. Feinberg, a billionaire financier who owns the giant military contractor DynCorp International, have developed proposals to rely on contractors instead of American troops in Afghanistan at the behest of Stephen K. Bannon, Mr. Trump’s chief strategist, and Jared Kushner, his senior adviser and son-in-law, according to people briefed on the conversations.
On Saturday morning, Mr. Bannon sought out Defense Secretary Jim Mattis at the Pentagon to try to get a hearing for their ideas, an American official said. Mr. Mattis listened politely but declined to include the outside strategies in a review of Afghanistan policy that he is leading along with the national security adviser, Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster.
The highly unusual meeting dramatizes the divide between Mr. Trump’s generals and his political staff over Afghanistan, the lengths to which his aides will go to give their boss more options for dealing with it and the readiness of this White House to turn to business people for help with diplomatic and military problems.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/world/asia/trump-afghanistan-policy-erik-prince-stephen-feinberg.html
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/07/18/read-trump-full-remarks-health-care-made-during-tuesday-luncheon/92Ewmh0zoh2ooFg1yEUvnO/story.htmlAnd we’re going to be getting some ideas because we’ve been there -- it’s our longest war -- we’ve been there for many years. We’ve been there for now close to 17 years, and I want to find out why we’ve been there for 17 years, how it’s going, and what we should do in terms of additional ideas. I’ve heard plenty of ideas from a lot of people, but I want to hear it from the people on the ground.
It's too bad this question did not occur to Trump before deciding to send more troops.
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
Trump White House weighs unprecedented plan to privatize much of the war in Afghanistan
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/08/08/war-afghanistan-trump-white-house-weighs-bold-plan-privatize/548004001/?utm_source=nl-politics-daily-080817
The White House is actively considering a bold plan to turn over a big chunk of the U.S. war in Afghanistan to private contractors in an effort to turn the tide in a stalemated war, according to the former head of a security firm pushing the project.
Under the proposal, 5,500 private contractors, primarily former Special Operations troops, would advise Afghan combat forces. The plan also includes a 90-plane private air force that would provide air support in the nearly 16-year-old war against Taliban insurgents, Erik Prince, founder of the Blackwater security firm, told USA TODAY.
The unprecedented proposal comes as the U.S.-backed Afghan military faces a stalemate in the war and growing frustration by President Trump about the lack of progress in the war.
The U.S. military has 8,400 U.S. troops there to train and guide local forces. They do not have a direct combat role, and presumably would be replaced gradually by the contractors.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/08/08/war-afghanistan-trump-white-house-weighs-bold-plan-privatize/548004001/?utm_source=nl-politics-daily-080817
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
Turtleneck wrote:Trump White House weighs unprecedented plan to privatize much of the war in AfghanistanThe White House is actively considering a bold plan to turn over a big chunk of the U.S. war in Afghanistan to private contractors in an effort to turn the tide in a stalemated war, according to the former head of a security firm pushing the project.
Under the proposal, 5,500 private contractors, primarily former Special Operations troops, would advise Afghan combat forces. The plan also includes a 90-plane private air force that would provide air support in the nearly 16-year-old war against Taliban insurgents, Erik Prince, founder of the Blackwater security firm, told USA TODAY.
The unprecedented proposal comes as the U.S.-backed Afghan military faces a stalemate in the war and growing frustration by President Trump about the lack of progress in the war.
The U.S. military has 8,400 U.S. troops there to train and guide local forces. They do not have a direct combat role, and presumably would be replaced gradually by the contractors.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/08/08/war-afghanistan-trump-white-house-weighs-bold-plan-privatize/548004001/?utm_source=nl-politics-daily-080817
Hey a Devos relative says he can do it for ten. Illini. Shocked. This after his outfit gets busted for discriminantly killing people. Gee, I wonder if he gets the contract.
DWags- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
Nothing to worry about in Afghanistan.
President Trump is getting advice of Erik Prince former CEO of Blackwater that became Xe Services and now has renamed itself Academi after Prince sold it to private investors. Same Erik Prince who moved to Abu Dhabi, UAE and has reportedly has a residence in Middleburg VA.
With an assist from Steve Bannon, Erik Prince is trying to sell President Trump on sending a private army (which, of course will be provided by Prince) to fight the war in Afghanistan since Trump is reportedly unhappy with the current military leadership of US troops on the ground.
Its the Prince way. Both he and his sister Betsy DeVos are independent business people who want to have government funds spent on businesses and they can act as the middle men taking a portion of the money for themselves.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/07/politics/erik-prince-afghanistan-cnntv/index.html
President Trump is getting advice of Erik Prince former CEO of Blackwater that became Xe Services and now has renamed itself Academi after Prince sold it to private investors. Same Erik Prince who moved to Abu Dhabi, UAE and has reportedly has a residence in Middleburg VA.
With an assist from Steve Bannon, Erik Prince is trying to sell President Trump on sending a private army (which, of course will be provided by Prince) to fight the war in Afghanistan since Trump is reportedly unhappy with the current military leadership of US troops on the ground.
Its the Prince way. Both he and his sister Betsy DeVos are independent business people who want to have government funds spent on businesses and they can act as the middle men taking a portion of the money for themselves.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/07/politics/erik-prince-afghanistan-cnntv/index.html
GRR Spartan- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
There’s a lot to unpack in that paragraph. Watching it live, when he said “I studied Afghanistan in great detail and from every conceivable angle,” I literally laughed out loud. Let’s be blunt: The only printed material that Trump has studied in great detail from every conceivable angle are periodicals that contain glossy centerfolds.
The second factor is one that I have been hammering again and again, but it bears repeating: Trump is an exceptionally weak commander in chief. He lacks the gravitas and expertise to countermand his military advisers, even when his instincts push him in that direction. Trump also lacks any civilian staffers with the knowledge and wherewithal to put an unconventional solution onto the table. Steve Bannon apparently backed a hare-brained scheme to outsource the war to Erik Prince’s military contractors, but with Bannon’s departure even that idea was scotched.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/08/22/why-did-trump-flip-flop-on-afghanistan/?utm_term=.257c409580f2
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
If he said Afghanistan and Pakistan are americas most dangerous foes, why aren't they on the travel ban list?
DWags- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
because the sexual predator is an idiot.DWags wrote:If he said Afghanistan and Pakistan are americas most dangerous foes, why aren't they on the travel ban list?
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: Are you comfortable with Mattis being given discretion over troop levels in Afghanistan?
DWags wrote:If he said Afghanistan and Pakistan are americas most dangerous foes, why aren't they on the travel ban list?
If you insist on believing this President every time he speaks you'll be committed for long term care before Thanksgiving.
GRR Spartan- Geronte
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