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Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn)

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Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 Empty Re: Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn)

Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-10, 22:54

I actually do agree with this Tweet

Tom Nichols‏Verified account
@RadioFreeTom
All I'm saying, as buzzkilling as it is: Be patient. Wait.

He is right. There is a lot in this story that needs to be verified...but we can still have fun.


Last edited by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 00:05; edited 1 time in total
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Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-07-10, 23:00

This is watching death by 1000 cuts or the end of US democracy and an independent judiciary as we have known it.

I'm hoping its the former.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-07-10, 23:19

Turtleneck wrote:I actually do agree with this Tweet

Tom Nichols‏Verified account
@RadioFreeTom
All I'm saying, as buzzkilling as it is: Be patient. Wait.

There is a lot in this story that needs to be verified...but we can still have fun.

Mostly, yeah. There's no reason to play this "see there's something there!"- normal humans "no there isn't" - goose weekly debate game. There are competent individuals investigating it and they're gonna find out what happened. Not allowing drooling lunatics to destroy our health care system is way more important right now.
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 00:04

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:I actually do agree with this Tweet

Tom Nichols‏Verified account
@RadioFreeTom
All I'm saying, as buzzkilling as it is: Be patient. Wait.

There is a lot in this story that needs to be verified...but we can still have fun.

Mostly, yeah. There's no reason to play this "see there's something there!"- normal humans "no there isn't" - goose weekly debate game. There are competent individuals investigating it and they're gonna find out what happened. Not allowing drooling lunatics to destroy our health care system is way more important right now.

I have not been one to jump into the collusion fray one way or the other. But the WSJ story followed by the Lawfore story piqued my interest, and the stories from the NYT in the past two days have also gotten my attention.

But again, we should also have some fun with this!
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Post by DWags on 2017-07-11, 00:53

Turtleneck wrote:I actually do agree with this Tweet

Tom Nichols‏Verified account
@RadioFreeTom
All I'm saying, as buzzkilling as it is: Be patient. Wait.

He is right. There is a lot in this story that needs to be verified...but we can still have fun.


It's an A.D.D. Society and we need answers immediately. It's the Brady Bunch phenomenon. Problem then problem solved all within a half hour. We grew up with it and demand it now.
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Post by GRR Spartan on 2017-07-11, 07:58

DWags wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:I actually do agree with this Tweet

Tom Nichols‏Verified account
@RadioFreeTom
All I'm saying, as buzzkilling as it is: Be patient. Wait.

He is right. There is a lot in this story that needs to be verified...but we can still have fun.


It's an A.D.D. Society and we need answers immediately. It's the Brady Bunch phenomenon. Problem then problem solved all within a half hour. We grew up with it and demand it now.

I heard a school superintendent describe as the McDonald's effect. They want their food handed to them through window less than 3 minutes after placing their order so they can eat it as the drive to another things . Fast, hot and cheap.
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 11:20

Guys, your order is up.

Russian Dirt on Clinton? ‘I Love It,’ Donald Trump Jr. Said

The June 3, 2016, email sent to Donald Trump Jr. could hardly have been more explicit: One of his father’s former Russian business partners had been contacted by a senior Russian government official and was offering to provide the Trump campaign with dirt on Hillary Clinton.

The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,” read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

If the future president’s elder son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of an ongoing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.

He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

Four days later, after a flurry of emails, the intermediary wrote back, proposing a meeting in New York on Thursday with a “Russian government attorney.”

Donald Trump Jr. agreed, adding that he would likely bring along “Paul Manafort (campaign boss)” and “my brother-in-law,” Jared Kushner, now one of the president’s closest White House advisers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 11:25

Jr. has posted what he says is a string of emails...here is what he says is the 4th page...

Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 DEdnhw-WsAEbW9N
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Post by DWags on 2017-07-11, 11:26

Turtleneck wrote:Guys, your order is up.

Russian Dirt on Clinton? ‘I Love It,’ Donald Trump Jr. Said

The June 3, 2016, email sent to Donald Trump Jr. could hardly have been more explicit: One of his father’s former Russian business partners had been contacted by a senior Russian government official and was offering to provide the Trump campaign with dirt on Hillary Clinton.

The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,” read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

If the future president’s elder son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of an ongoing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.

He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

Four days later, after a flurry of emails, the intermediary wrote back, proposing a meeting in New York on Thursday with a “Russian government attorney.”

Donald Trump Jr. agreed, adding that he would likely bring along “Paul Manafort (campaign boss)” and “my brother-in-law,” Jared Kushner, now one of the president’s closest White House advisers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html

Obama

Hilliary.

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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 11:31

DWags wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:Guys, your order is up.


Obama

Hilliary.


Coming up next on Hannity, a look back at that time the Clinton's killed Vince Foster. Also, can Obama be charged with a felony for using a selfie stick on the Oval Office. We will discuss.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2017-07-11, 11:32

umm.. Benghazi.. email.. errr... pizza joint..? Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 2599972566
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Post by NigelUno on 2017-07-11, 11:33

What is Fredo's defense?

He just tried to collude with Russia...he didn't succeed?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2017-07-11, 11:39

NigelUno wrote:What is Fredo's defense?

He just tried to collude with Russia...he didn't succeed?
umm.. "LOCK HER UP"!!

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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 11:39

If Travis tried to throw Pylon into a pit to hold him captive, but failed and Pylon got away and is in hiding, is Travis guilty of anything?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2017-07-11, 11:39

the sexual predator and his family can't even succeed in cheating. Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 502811600
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Post by NigelUno on 2017-07-11, 11:40

Turtleneck wrote:Guys, your order is up.

Russian Dirt on Clinton? ‘I Love It,’ Donald Trump Jr. Said

The June 3, 2016, email sent to Donald Trump Jr. could hardly have been more explicit: One of his father’s former Russian business partners had been contacted by a senior Russian government official and was offering to provide the Trump campaign with dirt on Hillary Clinton.

The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,” read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

If the future president’s elder son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of an ongoing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.

He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

Four days later, after a flurry of emails, the intermediary wrote back, proposing a meeting in New York on Thursday with a “Russian government attorney.”

Donald Trump Jr. agreed, adding that he would likely bring along “Paul Manafort (campaign boss)” and “my brother-in-law,” Jared Kushner, now one of the president’s closest White House advisers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html

And the info was coming from Emin who has a highly respected company in Moscow.

Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 502811600
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2017-07-11, 11:44

Tonight on Fox News - a Bombshell Story: Barack Obama Wearing a Tan Suit - Tune In Tonight For This Fox News Exclusive!!

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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 12:03

Look at the top of the email chain...Kushner and Manafort included...

Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 DEdm3ylXUAAa83C
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 12:10

Susan Hennessey‏Verified account
@Susan_Hennessey
This isn't politics, it's a grave security issue. Kushner is simply unfit to hold clearance, have anywhere near the sensitive access he does
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Post by NigelUno on 2017-07-11, 12:18

Turtleneck wrote:Look at the top of the email chain...Kushner and Manafort included...

Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 DEdm3ylXUAAa83C

Russia-Clinton

Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 502811600

So, it seems like Kushner and Manafort did (kinda) know what the meeting was about. I thought the spin was they didn't?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2017-07-11, 12:29

I will say this:

patriotic, America-loving Republicans have gone a long way from "Mr. Gorbachev.. TEAR DOWN THIS WALL" to "well, we didn't really - technically - do anything wrong with Russia.. even though we wanted to.."..

Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 Giphy
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 12:32

NigelUno wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:Look at the top of the email chain...Kushner and Manafort included...

Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 DEdm3ylXUAAa83C

Russia-Clinton

Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 502811600

So, it seems like Kushner and Manafort did (kinda) know what the meeting was about. I thought the spin was they didn't?

Yes. I believe the previous story was Trump, Jr. just sort of asked them to attend - made it sound like he popped his head into their offices at the last minute - without telling them what it was about.
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 12:34

If you really want to fan the flames, it has been verified that Donald Trump was at Trump Tower at the time of the meeting, and that Reince Priebus also made a visit to Trump Tower that day.

But there has been nothing to suggest that either were aware of the meeting or Jr.'s contacts with the Russian lawyer.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2017-07-11, 12:41

Goosechev is awfully quiet.

though I'm sure he'll be back ranting about Hillary or Obama or Benghazi or emails.. oops.. NOT emails.. or pizza joints or something soon.

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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 13:04

Serious question. Why is Trump, Jr. freely offering incriminating information?

Two broad observations:

1. He changed his story and admitted to taking a meeting with a foreign national for the sole purpose of obtaining dirt on Clinton.
2. He posted email exchanges that show he thought the foreign national was a conduit for the Russian government.

What is his motivation to be this forthcoming/transparent?

1. He knows he did something wrong and wants to head the press off at the pass?
2. The WSJ story was a tipping point, and Trump's team is about to start throwing each other under the bus or leveraging information as a get out of jail free card?
3. There was collusion as has been suggested all along, and Jr. is simply going to take the fall for everything so it will go away?
4. They really think they did nothing wrong, or at least that nothing will come of it legally or even in future elections?
5. They are going to drop evidence that the Clinton camp did it, too?


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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-07-11, 13:05

Non serious answer that basically sums up Jr's day.

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Post by msugolfguy on 2017-07-11, 13:07

Turtleneck wrote:If you really want to fan the flames, it has been verified that Donald Trump was at Trump Tower at the time of the meeting, and that Reince Priebus also made a visit to Trump Tower that day.

But there has been nothing to suggest that either were aware of the meeting or Jr.'s contacts with the Russian lawyer.

I find that hard to believe. It's your son, not some mid level employee.
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 13:12

Turtleneck wrote:
5. They are going to drop evidence that the Clinton camp did it, too?

Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire
Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton.

Donald Trump wasn’t the only presidential candidate whose campaign was boosted by officials of a former Soviet bloc country.

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

I know many will use this story to advance a "her campaign did it, so it's ok that Trump did it" defense.

Let's deal in hypotheticals and say the Clinton campaign colluded with a foreign government. Guess what? It's not ok that either campaign colluded with a foreign government. Both should be held accountable, especially the one currently in charge of this country's national security.

The "everybody else does it" defense we are about to hear is a terrible and illogical defense.


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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-11, 14:38

Adam Goldman is one of the NYT's writers that broke the Jr. story over the weekend, and the email story yesterday. Late last night he tweeted "Update: I am still reporting." Then today he reported about the specific content of the emails and drove the story deeper. He has tweeted out "Update 2: I am still reporting." So there is likely more to come unless he is just screwing with us now.
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-12, 17:14

More from the WSJ...

Russian Officials Overheard Discussing Trump Associates Before Campaign Began:
U.S. intelligence starting in the spring of 2015 detected conversations in which Russian government officials discussed meetings with Trump associates


WASHINGTON—U.S. intelligence agencies starting in the spring of 2015 detected conversations in which Russian government officials discussed associates of Donald Trump, several months before he declared his candidacy for president, according to current and former U.S. officials.

In some cases, the Russians in the overheard conversations talked about meetings held outside the U.S. involving Russian government officials and Trump business associates or advisers, these people said.

It isn’t clear which Trump associates or advisers the Russians were referring to, or whether they had any connection to his presidential aspirations.

The reports were gathered by intelligence agencies that routinely monitor Russian espionage against the U.S. Such efforts can include monitoring phone calls and emails as well as information from informants. The efforts weren’t aimed at Mr. Trump or his associates, these people said.

https://www.wsj.com/article_email/russian-officials-overheard-discussing-trump-associates-before-campaign-began-1499890354-lMyQjAxMTI3MjE5MjExMzI0Wj/
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Post by NigelUno on 2017-07-12, 17:24

Turtleneck wrote:More from the WSJ...

Russian Officials Overheard Discussing Trump Associates Before Campaign Began:
U.S. intelligence starting in the spring of 2015 detected conversations in which Russian government officials discussed meetings with Trump associates


WASHINGTON—U.S. intelligence agencies starting in the spring of 2015 detected conversations in which Russian government officials discussed associates of Donald Trump, several months before he declared his candidacy for president, according to current and former U.S. officials.

In some cases, the Russians in the overheard conversations talked about meetings held outside the U.S. involving Russian government officials and Trump business associates or advisers, these people said.

It isn’t clear which Trump associates or advisers the Russians were referring to, or whether they had any connection to his presidential aspirations.

The reports were gathered by intelligence agencies that routinely monitor Russian espionage against the U.S. Such efforts can include monitoring phone calls and emails as well as information from informants. The efforts weren’t aimed at Mr. Trump or his associates, these people said.

https://www.wsj.com/article_email/russian-officials-overheard-discussing-trump-associates-before-campaign-began-1499890354-lMyQjAxMTI3MjE5MjExMzI0Wj/

Trump has business connections in Russia (even though I think he said he didn't). So there's probably some business chatter.

For instance, Trump knows Emin and his father. There are pictures of them together. If Emin was involved in the Fredo Fiasco, are we supposed to believe Fredo didn't tell his dad?
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-07-12, 17:32

Turtleneck wrote:More from the WSJ...

Russian Officials Overheard Discussing Trump Associates Before Campaign Began:
U.S. intelligence starting in the spring of 2015 detected conversations in which Russian government officials discussed meetings with Trump associates


WASHINGTON—U.S. intelligence agencies starting in the spring of 2015 detected conversations in which Russian government officials discussed associates of Donald Trump, several months before he declared his candidacy for president, according to current and former U.S. officials.

In some cases, the Russians in the overheard conversations talked about meetings held outside the U.S. involving Russian government officials and Trump business associates or advisers, these people said.

It isn’t clear which Trump associates or advisers the Russians were referring to, or whether they had any connection to his presidential aspirations.

The reports were gathered by intelligence agencies that routinely monitor Russian espionage against the U.S. Such efforts can include monitoring phone calls and emails as well as information from informants. The efforts weren’t aimed at Mr. Trump or his associates, these people said.

https://www.wsj.com/article_email/russian-officials-overheard-discussing-trump-associates-before-campaign-began-1499890354-lMyQjAxMTI3MjE5MjExMzI0Wj/

The  Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 1f44f  pee  Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 1f44f  tape  Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 1f44f  is  Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 1f44f  real  Lawfare just dropped an interesting story (re: yesterday's WSJ reports about a GOP operative and Flynn) - Page 2 1f44f


I don't really understand the twitter clapping emoji thing but what I can tell you is that the pee tape is real.
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-12, 18:30

Trump starting to build the wall.

Scoop: Trump lawyers want wall between Kushner, president
https://www.axios.com/trump-lawyers-demand-wall-between-kushner-president-2458146483.html

Kushner should have his security clearance pulled, and is probably where we should focus our attention as opposed to Jr.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2017-07-12, 18:33

Turtleneck wrote:Trump starting to build the wall.

Scoop: Trump lawyers want wall between Kushner, president
https://www.axios.com/trump-lawyers-demand-wall-between-kushner-president-2458146483.html

Kushner should have his security clearance pulled, and is probably where we should focus our attention as opposed to Jr.

It's pretty ridiculous that it hasn't been done already. But that's the world we live in now.
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-12, 19:01

Asked if he knew that his son was meeting with the Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya in June last year, Trump said in a White House interview: “No, that I didn’t know until a couple of days ago when I heard about this.”

Trump Jr. eagerly agreed to meet the woman he was told was a Russian government lawyer who might have damaging information about Democratic rival Hillary Clinton as part of Moscow's official support for his father's presidential election campaign, according to emails the son released on Tuesday.

In the interview, Trump said he did not fault his son for holding the meeting. "I think many people would have held that meeting," the president said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-interview-idUSKBN19X2XF

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That was fast.
1) Collusion is a hoax
2) No evidence of collusion
3) What do you mean by “collusion” exactly?
4) Collusion is good
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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-13, 00:54

DNC Hack Victims Sue Trump Campaign and Roger Stone
https://www.justsecurity.org/43077/dnc-hack-lawsuit/

On Wednesday, three victims of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) cybertheft and subsequent document release by WikiLeaks filed a federal lawsuit against Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. and Roger Stone. While there are many hurdles to be cleared, this litigation could eventually become a vehicle for discovery of documents and evidence in a judicial proceeding driven by private litigants. That means that a life-tenured federal judge will make determinations based on the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and relevant substantive law without the potential political chokepoints presented by a partisan Congress and compromised Executive. The complaint in Cockrum et al. v. Trump for President & Stone can be read here.

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Post by Turtleneck on 2017-07-13, 10:19

In defiance of a court order, the Justice Department is refusing to release part of a security form dealing with Attorney General Jeff Sessions' contacts with the Russian government.

On June 12, a judge had ordered the agency to provide the information within 30 days, a deadline that passed on Wednesday.

A recently launched ethics watchdog group called American Oversight filed a Freedom of Information Act request in March for sections of the Standard Form 86 relating to Sessions' contact "with any official of the Russian government."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/07/13/536982193/justice-department-defies-court-deadline-to-release-sessions-contacts-with-russi
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