I'm finding it hard to hate Nikolas Cruz

This kid didn't have a chance. 4 people showed up to his mom's funeral? I don't know the whole story but man it seems like the kid didn't live the American dream. Not even close.

I hate him kingston.

kingstonlake wrote:This kid didn't have a chance. 4 people showed up to his mom's funeral? I don't know the whole story but man it seems like the kid didn't live the American dream. Not even close.

A lot of kids won't be living the American dream...

Tim Wakefield wrote:I hate him kingston.

I can understand feeling that way. Completely understand.

NigelUno wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:This kid didn't have a chance. 4 people showed up to his mom's funeral? I don't know the whole story but man it seems like the kid didn't live the American dream. Not even close.

A lot of kids won't be living the American dream...

This is true.

I am moving this thread. Shameful. And don't say his name.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I am moving this thread. Shameful. And don't say his name.

Nikolas Cruz?

Shitloads of people go through tough times.  Violently taking them out on others is cowardice.

The Pantry wrote:Shitloads of people go through tough times.  Violently taking them out on others is cowardice.

I understand that. I hate what he did. But for some reason I'm having a hard time hating him. The kid needed help. A long time ago..... I don't know if the system failed, his mom, his family, etc. But I get the impression this kid was short changed at a very young age.

Wait wut

"No way that this could have been prevented." Says the only country where this regularly happens.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:"No way that this could have been prevented." Says the only country where this regularly happens.

Quoting an Onion headline seriously?

Same mindset that counts "doing something" as passing new laws so these assholes break 70 instead of 50.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:"No way that this could have been prevented." Says the only country where this regularly happens.

Quoting an Onion headline seriously?  

Same mindset that counts "doing something" as passing new laws so these assholes break 70 instead of 50.

Sooooooo triggered. Such a sad mindset you have Goose. This country will be better when we have more logical people running it.

You seem extra outraged about gun control discussion. Do you believe the status quo is working?

OK sweetie.   Tell me your solution rather than a stupid headline from a satire site.

I say quit publicizing them and giving them infamy.  

Though this isn't quite the same but when the networks all agreed to stop showing streakers back in the 70s - guess what?   No more streakers.

These mental cases WANT the publicity - if the networks simply quit making millions off the wall to wall coverage I'd bet the number of incidents would go down.   Go look and the number of mass/school shootings and the trajectory tracks almost perfectly with the rise of 24/7 cable news.

I know this will shock you but semi automatic rifles and large clips weren't invented in the 1990s.

And once again I ask for your "logical" solution.

LooseGoose wrote:OK sweetie.   Tell me your solution rather than a stupid headline from a satire site.

I say quit publicizing them and giving them infamy.  

Though this isn't quite the same but when the networks all agreed to stop showing streakers back in the 70s - guess what?   No more streakers.

These mental cases WANT the publicity - if the networks simply quit making millions off the wall to wall coverage I'd bet the number of incidents would go down.   Go look and the number of mass/school shootings and the trajectory tracks almost perfectly with the rise of 24/7 cable news.

I know this will shock you but semi automatic rifles and large clips weren't invented in the 1990s.

And once again I ask for your "logical" solution.

Don't report on mass murder in a high school? That's your answer? You'd have better luck taking away everyone's guns. Try harder.

My idea would be to start doing what every other country in the world does. Make the availability of guns ever so slightly harder to get a hold of. Doing nothing isn't the answer Goose.

LooseGoose wrote:OK sweetie.   Tell me your solution rather than a stupid headline from a satire site.

I say quit publicizing them and giving them infamy.  

Though this isn't quite the same but when the networks all agreed to stop showing streakers back in the 70s - guess what?   No more streakers.

That's your "logical" solution?

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:OK sweetie.   Tell me your solution rather than a stupid headline from a satire site.

I say quit publicizing them and giving them infamy.  

Though this isn't quite the same but when the networks all agreed to stop showing streakers back in the 70s - guess what?   No more streakers.

These mental cases WANT the publicity - if the networks simply quit making millions off the wall to wall coverage I'd bet the number of incidents would go down.   Go look and the number of mass/school shootings and the trajectory tracks almost perfectly with the rise of 24/7 cable news.

I know this will shock you but semi automatic rifles and large clips weren't invented in the 1990s.

And once again I ask for your "logical" solution.

Don't report on mass murder in a high school? That's your answer? You'd have better luck taking away everyone's guns. Try harder.

My idea would be to start doing what every other country in the world does. Make the availability of guns ever so slightly harder to get a hold of. Doing nothing isn't the answer Goose.

+

OK - how do you do that? Be specific, better yet tell me how any solution you propose would have stopped a mass killing had it been in place.

Mass shootings in the CNN only era 1980-1996: 21

Mass shootings in the CNN/FOX/MSNBC era 1997-2018: 77

Copycats and wall to wall publicity have contributed. It used to be "I'll make the cover of Time" now it's that EVERYONE will know my name. For some worthless fucks that's all they want.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

kingstonlake wrote:This kid didn't have a chance. 4 people showed up to his mom's funeral? I don't know the whole story but man it seems like the kid didn't live the American dream. Not even close.

Find it hard to "hate" him if he offs himself due to depression. Find it easy to feel sorry for him if he offs himself due to depression.

But don't find it hard to "hate" someone who was selfish enough to take the lives of others because he was finding it hard to deal with life. FUCK that.

Not agreeing, nor disagreeing, but I had a prof at MSU that at least made me think about it. I believe the subject was child abusers and the undeniable relationship between them and their upbringing.

I find it most palatable to blame the both the perpetrator and the contributing factors.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Don't report on mass murder in a high school? That's your answer? You'd have better luck taking away everyone's guns. Try harder.

My idea would be to start doing what every other country in the world does. Make the availability of guns ever so slightly harder to get a hold of. Doing nothing isn't the answer Goose.

+

OK - how do you do that? Be specific, better yet tell me how any solution you propose would have stopped a mass killing had it been in place.

Mass shootings in the CNN only era 1980-1996: 21

Mass shootings in the CNN/FOX/MSNBC era 1997-2018: 77

Copycats and wall to wall publicity have contributed. It used to be "I'll make the cover of Time" now it's that EVERYONE will know my name. For some worthless fucks that's all they want.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

Goose unfortunately there is no solution that doesn't start or at least include looking at regulations on the availability of guns. And since it's a non starter for many gun sick Americans maybe there isn't a solution. This country has a sick obsession with guns and a sick dismissal of mental health care. You only have to look at the common denominator of countries with very low gun crime. We both know what it is. Wether you want to put in words or not.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Don't report on mass murder in a high school? That's your answer? You'd have better luck taking away everyone's guns. Try harder.

My idea would be to start doing what every other country in the world does. Make the availability of guns ever so slightly harder to get a hold of. Doing nothing isn't the answer Goose.

+

OK - how do you do that? Be specific, better yet tell me how any solution you propose would have stopped a mass killing had it been in place.

Mass shootings in the CNN only era 1980-1996: 21

Mass shootings in the CNN/FOX/MSNBC era 1997-2018: 77

Copycats and wall to wall publicity have contributed. It used to be "I'll make the cover of Time" now it's that EVERYONE will know my name. For some worthless fucks that's all they want.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

Nah. You're never specific with any of your answers. Why should I be? You're on the side of doing nothing. You are the problem. I owe you nothing when you play your intellectually dishonest games every day.

Change you posting habits and maybe we can have an honest debate. Until then keep on posting your bullshit.

SawGreen wrote:Not agreeing, nor disagreeing, but I had a prof at MSU that at least made me think about it. I believe the subject was child abusers and the undeniable relationship between them and their upbringing.

I find it most palatable to blame the both the perpetrator and the contributing factors.

Very good point. I guess what I'm saying is at a very young age, when a child can't fend for himself in situations that need real adult and political common sense, he was doomed.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:+

OK - how do you do that? Be specific, better yet tell me how any solution you propose would have stopped a mass killing had it been in place.

Mass shootings in the CNN only era 1980-1996: 21

Mass shootings in the CNN/FOX/MSNBC era 1997-2018: 77

Copycats and wall to wall publicity have contributed. It used to be "I'll make the cover of Time" now it's that EVERYONE will know my name. For some worthless fucks that's all they want.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

Nah. You're never specific with any of your answers. Why should I be? You're on the side of doing nothing. You are the problem. I owe you nothing when you play your intellectually dishonest games every day.

Change you posting habits and maybe we can have an honest debate. Until then keep on posting your bullshit.

lol, nice dodge.

I would be interesting to see what the mass shooting #'s were prior to CNN. Back then you had the 3 networks with 30 minutes each a night. They rarely ever cut into regular programming. My guess is that the mass shooting incidents were even lower.

Steve can blame it on the gun culture but that ignores that we've had millions of guns in this country forever more. The NRA gets blamed but maybe some wants to point to a single mass shooting done by an NRA member?

It could be copycats, it could be a wish for fame of any kind, it could be kids with rough lives - etc, etc but none of those things is really new either. For me the question is what changed? The biggest answer is the news coverage. I'd be wide open to hearing any other ideas. And please don't start with "assault weapons" being more lethal because that's just not true.

kingstonlake wrote:This kid didn't have a chance. 4 people showed up to his mom's funeral? I don't know the whole story but man it seems like the kid didn't live the American dream. Not even close.

Sorry, dude, but fuck that. Didn't have a chance, my ass. His mom's funeral was a couple months ago. Most of these reports of issues existed long before then. Yeah, he was autistic. So maybe that led to him being a social outcast and being bullied. Or, you know, maybe he was a social outcast because he was a fucking racist pro-Nazi piece of shit that would kill animals for fun. Pretty sure racism and Nazism isn't an outgrowth of autism.

Boo hoo for the poor kid growing up on a million dollar property in rich, suburban South Florida. Never had a chance. GTFO.

(Edit: FWIW, my "GTFO" and stuff in the above is not directed at you personally, Kingston, but at the idea of sympathy for him)

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Nah. You're never specific with any of your answers. Why should I be? You're on the side of doing nothing. You are the problem. I owe you nothing when you play your intellectually dishonest games every day.

Change you posting habits and maybe we can have an honest debate. Until then keep on posting your bullshit.

lol, nice dodge.

I would be interesting to see what the mass shooting #'s were prior to CNN. Back then you had the 3 networks with 30 minutes each a night. They rarely ever cut into regular programming. My guess is that the mass shooting incidents were even lower.

Steve can blame it on the gun culture but that ignores that we've had millions of guns in this country forever more. The NRA gets blamed but maybe some wants to point to a single mass shooting done by an NRA member?

It could be copycats, it could be a wish for fame of any kind, it could be kids with rough lives - etc, etc but none of those things is really new either. For me the question is what changed? The biggest answer is the news coverage. I'd be wide open to hearing any other ideas. And please don't start with "assault weapons" being more lethal because that's just not true.

This post is why I don't care to even try to have a discussion with you. Do better.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:This kid didn't have a chance. 4 people showed up to his mom's funeral? I don't know the whole story but man it seems like the kid didn't live the American dream. Not even close.

Sorry, dude, but fuck that.  Didn't have a chance, my ass.  His mom's funeral was a couple months ago.  Most of these reports of issues existed long before then.  Yeah, he was autistic.  So maybe that led to him being a social outcast and being bullied.  Or, you know, maybe he was a social outcast because he was a fucking racist pro-Nazi piece of shit that would kill animals for fun.  Pretty sure racism and Nazism isn't an outgrowth of autism.

Boo hoo for the poor kid growing up on a million dollar property in rich, suburban South Florida.  Never had a chance.  GTFO.  

I'm fairly confident the property value of the area he grew up in doesn't play a role in how he was raised or treated. Didn't take the GTFO personally. BTW.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Nah. You're never specific with any of your answers. Why should I be? You're on the side of doing nothing. You are the problem. I owe you nothing when you play your intellectually dishonest games every day.

Change you posting habits and maybe we can have an honest debate. Until then keep on posting your bullshit.

lol, nice dodge.

I would be interesting to see what the mass shooting #'s were prior to CNN. Back then you had the 3 networks with 30 minutes each a night. They rarely ever cut into regular programming. My guess is that the mass shooting incidents were even lower.

Steve can blame it on the gun culture but that ignores that we've had millions of guns in this country forever more. The NRA gets blamed but maybe some wants to point to a single mass shooting done by an NRA member?

It could be copycats, it could be a wish for fame of any kind, it could be kids with rough lives - etc, etc but none of those things is really new either. For me the question is what changed? The biggest answer is the news coverage. I'd be wide open to hearing any other ideas. And please don't start with "assault weapons" being more lethal because that's just not true.

Do other countries with very low gun crimes not have access to cnn, MSNBC, fox, and other round the clock news channels? Should I check into it. Or is it some other factor that may be keeping gun crimes low......

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

lol, nice dodge.

I would be interesting to see what the mass shooting #'s were prior to CNN. Back then you had the 3 networks with 30 minutes each a night. They rarely ever cut into regular programming. My guess is that the mass shooting incidents were even lower.

Steve can blame it on the gun culture but that ignores that we've had millions of guns in this country forever more. The NRA gets blamed but maybe some wants to point to a single mass shooting done by an NRA member?

It could be copycats, it could be a wish for fame of any kind, it could be kids with rough lives - etc, etc but none of those things is really new either. For me the question is what changed? The biggest answer is the news coverage. I'd be wide open to hearing any other ideas. And please don't start with "assault weapons" being more lethal because that's just not true.

This post is why I don't care to even try to have a discussion with you. Do better.

I know, refuting facts with emotion is a bitch. Let me point out one more thing that's changed. And it was a "do something" improvement to our gun laws. Gun free zones.

I probably had a gun in my car for 1/2 the school year, between pheasants and deer in the fall and rabbits in the winter I hunted often before and after school. I purchased guns from teachers IN the school. I've told people those stories forever, laughing how you sure couldn't do that today.

Well guess what? Some bastard couldn't have walked into a school in the 1940s - 1970s and been sure that everyone there was properly disarmed for them. And before you start squealing about how this wouldn't have made a difference there ARE instances of people running out to parking lots and getting a gun to STOP a school shooter.

So Congress "did something" - they passed a law outlawing guns on school property and probably succeeded in getting kids killed. But all the Emotional Eddies and Emilies felt better because something had been done.

How many school shooters would you estimate have walked up to a school with murder on their mind, seen this sign:

then turned around and went home? My guess is zero.

This is a rip from somewhere, can't remember.....

NRA: The only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.

Truth: Sounds like a person trying to sell two guns.

J T wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:This kid didn't have a chance. 4 people showed up to his mom's funeral? I don't know the whole story but man it seems like the kid didn't live the American dream. Not even close.

Find it hard to "hate" him if he offs himself due to depression. Find it easy to feel sorry for him if he offs himself due to depression.

But don't find it hard to "hate" someone who was selfish enough to take the lives of others because he was finding it hard to deal with life. FUCK that.

Welcome back to tSwill, JT.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

This post is why I don't care to even try to have a discussion with you. Do better.

I know, refuting facts with emotion is a bitch. Let me point out one more thing that's changed. And it was a "do something" improvement to our gun laws. Gun free zones.

I probably had a gun in my car for 1/2 the school year, between pheasants and deer in the fall and rabbits in the winter I hunted often before and after school. I purchased guns from teachers IN the school. I've told people those stories forever, laughing how you sure couldn't do that today.

Well guess what? Some bastard couldn't have walked into a school in the 1940s - 1970s and been sure that everyone there was properly disarmed for them. And before you start squealing about how this wouldn't have made a difference there ARE instances of people running out to parking lots and getting a gun to STOP a school shooter.

So Congress "did something" - they passed a law outlawing guns on school property and probably succeeded in getting kids killed. But all the Emotional Eddies and Emilies felt better because something had been done.

How many school shooters would you estimate have walked up to a school with murder on their mind, seen this sign:

then turned around and went home? My guess is zero.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't really help your case Goose. At least to people that use their brains. Let's try again.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Nah. You're never specific with any of your answers. Why should I be? You're on the side of doing nothing. You are the problem. I owe you nothing when you play your intellectually dishonest games every day.

Change you posting habits and maybe we can have an honest debate. Until then keep on posting your bullshit.

lol, nice dodge.

I would be interesting to see what the mass shooting #'s were prior to CNN. Back then you had the 3 networks with 30 minutes each a night. They rarely ever cut into regular programming. My guess is that the mass shooting incidents were even lower.

Steve can blame it on the gun culture but that ignores that we've had millions of guns in this country forever more. The NRA gets blamed but maybe some wants to point to a single mass shooting done by an NRA member?

It could be copycats, it could be a wish for fame of any kind, it could be kids with rough lives - etc, etc but none of those things is really new either. For me the question is what changed? The biggest answer is the news coverage. I'd be wide open to hearing any other ideas. And please don't start with "assault weapons" being more lethal because that's just not true.

Don't bump stocks make weapons more lethal?

Goose, do countries with very low gun crime rates not have around the clock news channels?

Goose, of the ten lowest countries with gun related violent crime, CNN is broadcast in 9 of them. China being the exception.

Now that we've eliminated gun violence in the U.S being the fault of CNN, what other factor do you think it could be that accounts for the low violent gun crime?

Tell me about gun laws in Japan, Iceland, South Korea, Romania, UK, and Singapore. Anybody?

Huh.

Goose seems to have disappeared.

kingstonlake wrote:Tell me about gun laws in Japan, Iceland, South Korea, Romania, UK, and Singapore. Anybody?

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:Tell me about gun laws in Japan, Iceland, South Korea, Romania, UK, and Singapore. Anybody?

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

Yes, I've read it. It can be done. Maybe not here, but others have proven it can be.