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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-11, 14:25

Tim Wakefield wrote:
steveschneider wrote:I thought her take on Pelosi was friggin stupid. I don't mind the public disagreement but accusing her of being racist was just stupid.

Maybe Pelosi is just too stupid to realize she's a racist.

AOC walked it back today. Playing the race card is going to turn off moderate voters which the party is going to need to win in 2020. I saw a good take, Pelosi is accurate the vocal progressive wing is just 4 votes. If there were 20 more that changes things.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2019-07-11, 14:35

so is it safe to say that the Democrats have joined the "outrage culture" fueled by the mainstream media..? Which is pretty much the very reason I started this thread?

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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-11, 15:25

Robert J Sakimano wrote:so is it safe to say that the Democrats have joined the "outrage culture" fueled by the mainstream media..? Which is pretty much the very reason I started this thread?

tOfficial "The GOP and Mainstream Media is Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez" Thread..  - Page 14 502811600

I don't know, I think this is different. From what I've read the center of the party caucused Nancy saying she needs this Bill to pass. Nancy's job is to keep the dems in power and those seats could flip if they don't get a bill passed. That's politics. As she said AOC has a huge platform on Twitter but her wing of the party is just four votes. Not sure how I see AOC's claims of racism as helpful?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2019-07-11, 15:39

steveschneider wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:so is it safe to say that the Democrats have joined the "outrage culture" fueled by the mainstream media..? Which is pretty much the very reason I started this thread?

tOfficial "The GOP and Mainstream Media is Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez" Thread..  - Page 14 502811600

I don't know, I think this is different. From what I've read the center of the party caucused Nancy saying she needs this Bill to pass. Nancy's job is to keep the dems in power and those seats could flip if they don't get a bill passed. That's politics. As she said AOC has a huge platform on Twitter but her wing of the party is just four votes. Not sure how I see AOC's claims of racism as helpful?
yeah, I don't know anything about it..

I just suspect that when the mainstream media fuels a public outrage about AOC and Pelosi arguing about Twitter while the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator rapes women, rapes little girls, denigrates the Constitution, locks children in cages, etc. it really serves no purpose but does confirm the fact that the United States is an incredibly stupid and gullible country.

(again - just my opinion. I don't want people to attack me for having an opinion).

(of course, they can attack me.. it's just weird).

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Post by Cameron on 2019-07-11, 16:02

steveschneider wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:so is it safe to say that the Democrats have joined the "outrage culture" fueled by the mainstream media..? Which is pretty much the very reason I started this thread?

tOfficial "The GOP and Mainstream Media is Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez" Thread..  - Page 14 502811600

I don't know, I think this is different. From what I've read the center of the party caucused Nancy saying she needs this Bill to pass. Nancy's job is to keep the dems in power and those seats could flip if they don't get a bill passed. That's politics. As she said AOC has a huge platform on Twitter but her wing of the party is just four votes. Not sure how I see AOC's claims of racism as helpful?

Weren't there something like 90 "no" votes on the bill in question? 4 =/= 90

EDIT: A couple corrections. First, Pelosi was evidently referencing the first failed house bill, and they were indeed the only 4 "no" votes. Second, on the version that eventually passed, there were in fact 95 "no" votes (only counting Ds), not 90 as I had mentioned.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr3401
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-11, 16:14

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I don't know, I think this is different. From what I've read the center of the party caucused Nancy saying she needs this Bill to pass. Nancy's job is to keep the dems in power and those seats could flip if they don't get a bill passed. That's politics. As she said AOC has a huge platform on Twitter but her wing of the party is just four votes. Not sure how I see AOC's claims of racism as helpful?

Weren't there something like 90 "no" votes on the bill in question? 4 =/= 90

EDIT: A couple corrections. First, Pelosi was evidently referencing the first failed house bill, and they were indeed the only 4 "no" votes. Second, on the version that eventually passed, there were in fact 95 "no" votes (only counting Ds), not 90 as I had mentioned.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr3401

From what I saw in the Slate ARticle -

"Freshmen Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, and Rashida Tlaib were particularly outspoken in their criticism of the vote on the Senate bill. They—and they alone, among Democrats—hadn’t voted for the more robust House bill a couple of days earlier, but that didn’t stop them from arguing that House Democrats should have fought harder to include elements of it in a final negotiated deal with the Senate.

That’s the sort of thing that drives vote-counters in leadership mad. And in an interview with the New York Times’ Maureen Dowd, Pelosi let them know it with sharp criticism belittling their influence within the majority.

“All these people have their public whatever and their Twitter world,” Pelosi told Dowd. “But they didn’t have any following. They’re four people and that’s how many votes they got.” This isn’t the first time Pelosi has diminished these particular representatives publicly, but her targets aren’t taking the quip so lightly this time. Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff commented that the speaker “is just mad that she got outmaneuvered (again) by Republicans.”"

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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-11, 16:16

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I don't know, I think this is different. From what I've read the center of the party caucused Nancy saying she needs this Bill to pass. Nancy's job is to keep the dems in power and those seats could flip if they don't get a bill passed. That's politics. As she said AOC has a huge platform on Twitter but her wing of the party is just four votes. Not sure how I see AOC's claims of racism as helpful?
yeah, I don't know anything about it..

I just suspect that when the mainstream media fuels a public outrage about AOC and Pelosi arguing about Twitter while the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator rapes women, rapes little girls, denigrates the Constitution, locks children in cages, etc. it really serves no purpose but does confirm the fact that the United States is an incredibly stupid and gullible country.

(again - just my opinion. I don't want people to attack me for having an opinion).

(of course, they can attack me.. it's just weird).


Yeah, but AOC calling Pelosi a racist isn't going to help...just going to fuel and drive the MSM takes on the feud.
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Post by Cameron on 2019-07-11, 16:20

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Weren't there something like 90 "no" votes on the bill in question? 4 =/= 90

EDIT: A couple corrections. First, Pelosi was evidently referencing the first failed house bill, and they were indeed the only 4 "no" votes. Second, on the version that eventually passed, there were in fact 95 "no" votes (only counting Ds), not 90 as I had mentioned.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr3401

From what I saw in the Slate ARticle -

"Freshmen Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, and Rashida Tlaib were particularly outspoken in their criticism of the vote on the Senate bill. They—and they alone, among Democrats—hadn’t voted for the more robust House bill a couple of days earlier, but that didn’t stop them from arguing that House Democrats should have fought harder to include elements of it in a final negotiated deal with the Senate.

That’s the sort of thing that drives vote-counters in leadership mad. And in an interview with the New York Times’ Maureen Dowd, Pelosi let them know it with sharp criticism belittling their influence within the majority.

“All these people have their public whatever and their Twitter world,” Pelosi told Dowd. “But they didn’t have any following. They’re four people and that’s how many votes they got.” This isn’t the first time Pelosi has diminished these particular representatives publicly, but her targets aren’t taking the quip so lightly this time. Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff commented that the speaker “is just mad that she got outmaneuvered (again) by Republicans.”"


I mean, if they didn't even support the "better" version that was first sent to the senate, then of course they're not going to support whatever watered down bullshit the senate sent back.

Fuck Nancy Pelosi. She's mad at her fellow democrats for advocating NOT just rolling over and doing what the GOP senate wants. Pelosi is fucking worthless.
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-11, 16:25

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

From what I saw in the Slate ARticle -

"Freshmen Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, and Rashida Tlaib were particularly outspoken in their criticism of the vote on the Senate bill. They—and they alone, among Democrats—hadn’t voted for the more robust House bill a couple of days earlier, but that didn’t stop them from arguing that House Democrats should have fought harder to include elements of it in a final negotiated deal with the Senate.

That’s the sort of thing that drives vote-counters in leadership mad. And in an interview with the New York Times’ Maureen Dowd, Pelosi let them know it with sharp criticism belittling their influence within the majority.

“All these people have their public whatever and their Twitter world,” Pelosi told Dowd. “But they didn’t have any following. They’re four people and that’s how many votes they got.” This isn’t the first time Pelosi has diminished these particular representatives publicly, but her targets aren’t taking the quip so lightly this time. Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff commented that the speaker “is just mad that she got outmaneuvered (again) by Republicans.”"


I mean, if they didn't even support the "better" version that was first sent to the senate, then of course they're not going to support whatever watered down bullshit the senate sent back.

Fuck Nancy Pelosi. She's mad at her fellow democrats for advocating NOT just rolling over and doing what the GOP senate wants. Pelosi is fucking worthless.

Nope, her own party party wanted the bill passed. Members of the house that are in the center wanted it passed. There's more reps in the center than the far left. This wasn't Nancy's directive as you claim this came from the more center members of the party.
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Post by Cameron on 2019-07-11, 16:37

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

I mean, if they didn't even support the "better" version that was first sent to the senate, then of course they're not going to support whatever watered down bullshit the senate sent back.

Fuck Nancy Pelosi. She's mad at her fellow democrats for advocating NOT just rolling over and doing what the GOP senate wants. Pelosi is fucking worthless.

Nope, her own party party wanted the bill passed. Members of the house that are in the center wanted it passed. There's more reps in the center than the far left. This wasn't Nancy's directive as you claim this came from the more center members of the party.

Where the directive came from is sort of irrelevant, because Nancy is indeed mad at those 4, and she is mad because they didn't fall in line. Whether it was Pelosi's idea in the first place or not doesn't really change that.
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-11, 16:45

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

Nope, her own party party wanted the bill passed. Members of the house that are in the center wanted it passed. There's more reps in the center than the far left. This wasn't Nancy's directive as you claim this came from the more center members of the party.

Where the directive came from is sort of irrelevant, because Nancy is indeed mad at those 4, and she is mad because they didn't fall in line. Whether it was Pelosi's idea in the first place or not doesn't really change that.

Well back to my original point, it's easy for AOC to get elected in Queens and the Bronx. A Dem isn't going to lose that district, she's showing no regard for her fellow party members that won in more hotly contested districts. Also, calling Pelosi racist is damaging and undeserved. There's a comparison being drawn between those four and to the same problems the Tea Party presented to Boehner. I think there's some validity to it.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2019-07-11, 19:29

steveschneider wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
yeah, I don't know anything about it..

I just suspect that when the mainstream media fuels a public outrage about AOC and Pelosi arguing about Twitter while the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator rapes women, rapes little girls, denigrates the Constitution, locks children in cages, etc. it really serves no purpose but does confirm the fact that the United States is an incredibly stupid and gullible country.

(again - just my opinion. I don't want people to attack me for having an opinion).

(of course, they can attack me.. it's just weird).


Yeah, but AOC calling Pelosi a racist isn't going to help...just going to fuel and drive the MSM takes on the feud.
FYI the mainstream media is going to denigrate AOC and Pelosi regardless.

It's what America makes out of it that matters. And it sounds like America is very upset at it. tOfficial "The GOP and Mainstream Media is Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez" Thread..  - Page 14 502811600

Imagine how the children locked in cages must feel about it. I'm sure it's at the top of their agenda.


(just my opinion).

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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-11, 20:33

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

Yeah, but AOC calling Pelosi a racist isn't going to help...just going to fuel and drive the MSM takes on the feud.
FYI the mainstream media is going to denigrate AOC and Pelosi regardless.

It's what America makes out of it that matters. And it sounds like America is very upset at it. tOfficial "The GOP and Mainstream Media is Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez" Thread..  - Page 14 502811600

Imagine how the children locked in cages must feel about it. I'm sure it's at the top of their agenda.


(just my opinion).


I trust Pelosi over AOC at this point to solve this problem. AOC’s staff member called her fellow Dems segregationists and she called the speaker of the house a racist. Not a good week for AOC.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2019-07-11, 22:49

Mark my words. Dems are going to lose the White House in 2020 because of shit like this.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2019-07-12, 05:28

kingstonlake wrote:Mark my words. Dems are going to lose the White House in 2020 because of shit like this.
they're probably going to lose it for a lot of reasons.

America is a stupid country.
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-12, 07:05

kingstonlake wrote:Mark my words. Dems are going to lose the White House in 2020 because of shit like this.

I’m not there yet, but I agree it isn’t helping.
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Post by Cameron on 2019-07-12, 08:11

steveschneider wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:FYI the mainstream media is going to denigrate AOC and Pelosi regardless.

It's what America makes out of it that matters. And it sounds like America is very upset at it. tOfficial "The GOP and Mainstream Media is Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez" Thread..  - Page 14 502811600

Imagine how the children locked in cages must feel about it. I'm sure it's at the top of their agenda.


(just my opinion).


I trust Pelosi over AOC at this point to solve this problem. AOC’s staff member called her fellow Dems segregationists and she called the speaker of the house a racist. Not a good week for AOC.

What the fuck has Pelosi done that you trust her to solve this?
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-12, 08:34

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I trust Pelosi over AOC at this point to solve this problem. AOC’s staff member called her fellow Dems segregationists and she called the speaker of the house a racist. Not a good week for AOC.

What the fuck has Pelosi done that you trust her to solve this?
I’ll take her leadership over a person that calls her racist and has a staff member calling members of her own party segregationists.
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Post by Cameron on 2019-07-12, 09:34

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

What the fuck has Pelosi done that you trust her to solve this?
I’ll take her leadership over a person that calls her racist and has a staff member calling members of her own party segregationists.

That's not really an answer to my question, steve.
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-12, 09:59

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:
I’ll take her leadership over a person that calls her racist and has a staff member calling members of her own party segregationists.

That's not really an answer to my question, steve.

What has she done? Plenty of incredible things, key component to get the affordable care act passed for one.

Here's the thing politics is a long game. You gotta organize, you gotta compromise, you gotta win elections and you gotta consider the full electoral map and the totality of your party.

I like AOC but this move on her part was a complete blunder. Came out this morning a lot of African American leaders in the house that are dems are condemning her actions. What good did she do calling the speaker of the house a racist and what good was it for her staff member to tweet out a lot of the dems are segregationists including the African American members of the party? That's a question for you. AOC represents Queens and the Bronx but if she continues this type of infighting she's just going to become a huge problem for the party.
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Post by Cameron on 2019-07-12, 11:15

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

That's not really an answer to my question, steve.

What has she done? Plenty of incredible things, key component to get the affordable care act passed for one.

Here's the thing politics is a long game. You gotta organize, you gotta compromise, you gotta win elections and you gotta consider the full electoral map and the totality of your party.

I like AOC but this move on her part was a complete blunder. Came out this morning a lot of African American leaders in the house that are dems are condemning her actions. What good did she do calling the speaker of the house a racist and what good was it for her staff member to tweet out a lot of the dems are segregationists including the African American members of the party? That's a question for you. AOC represents Queens and the Bronx but if she continues this type of infighting she's just going to become a huge problem for the party.

First, a point of clarification. As far as I'm aware, AOC hasn't actually said Pelosi is "racist." What I read indicated that AOC accused Pelosi of "singling out of newly elected women of color." Perhaps that's splitting hairs, but maybe there's further comments I've not seen.

As far as the staff member tweets, I haven't seen them and don't really care to. If we want to start holding everybody accountable for everything every staff member says, we can, but I don't think that would be productive. If a staff member called dems segregationists as you say, that seems uncalled for.

Now, turning to what "good" AOC did, I would have to say probably none. But if she was trying to send a message to Pelosi that she won't just quietly fall in line, I'd say message received. I don't want to go too far in defending AOC here, because I don't think playing any sort of race card was necessarily warranted here. But I'm saying that as a white guy, so I hesitate to substitute my judgment for hers.

As far as playing the game and doing things the Pelosi way, what has that really gotten us? You mentioned the ACA. The same ACA that the GOP is in the process of dismantling while Nancy plays her long game. If AOC and the progressives are willing to take some fight to the GOP, I prefer that to the Pelosi-Schumer program.
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-12, 11:33

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

What has she done? Plenty of incredible things, key component to get the affordable care act passed for one.

Here's the thing politics is a long game. You gotta organize, you gotta compromise, you gotta win elections and you gotta consider the full electoral map and the totality of your party.

I like AOC but this move on her part was a complete blunder. Came out this morning a lot of African American leaders in the house that are dems are condemning her actions. What good did she do calling the speaker of the house a racist and what good was it for her staff member to tweet out a lot of the dems are segregationists including the African American members of the party? That's a question for you. AOC represents Queens and the Bronx but if she continues this type of infighting she's just going to become a huge problem for the party.

First, a point of clarification. As far as I'm aware, AOC hasn't actually said Pelosi is "racist." What I read indicated that AOC accused Pelosi of "singling out of newly elected women of color." Perhaps that's splitting hairs, but maybe there's further comments I've not seen.

Yes, that's accusing her of being racist.

As far as the staff member tweets, I haven't seen them and don't really care to. If we want to start holding everybody accountable for everything every staff member says, we can, but I don't think that would be productive. If a staff member called dems segregationists as you say, that seems uncalled for.

So you haven't seen it and you don't know anything about it but that's not going to stop you from arguing with me? Got it.

Now, turning to what "good" AOC did, I would have to say probably none. But if she was trying to send a message to Pelosi that she won't just quietly fall in line, I'd say message received. I don't want to go too far in defending AOC here, because I don't think playing any sort of race card was necessarily warranted here. But I'm saying that as a white guy, so I hesitate to substitute my judgment for hers.

We are actually in agreement but knowing your past that probably won't stop you coming back with something else.

As far as playing the game and doing things the Pelosi way, what has that really gotten us? You mentioned the ACA. The same ACA that the GOP is in the process of dismantling while Nancy plays her long game. If AOC and the progressives are willing to take some fight to the GOP, I prefer that to the Pelosi-Schumer program.

Of course the GOP is going to dismantled ACA. That's their long game and the right is far better at the long game than the left. Right now Dems hold what 1/6 of power in Government? What is Pelosi supposed to do when she doesn't have much? Also, AOC has been admonished by members of her party today including African American members of her party. I posted a link to a good op-ed that outlines the AOC problem.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/12/about-that-aoc-problem/?utm_term=.fa685c115ac2

Also, Rubin is right AOC made this a ridiculous indictment on Pelosi which was unnecessary.
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Post by Cameron on 2019-07-12, 11:45

steveschneider wrote:
So you haven't seen it and you don't know anything about it but that's not going to stop you from arguing with me? Got it.

It was never my intention to argue with you about what the staffer tweeted. You are the one who brought that up, I simply responded that I had not seen it. I was engaging on AOC vs. Pelosi.

steveschneider wrote:We are actually in agreement but knowing your past that probably won't stop you coming back with something else.

Yeah, I don't think we're too far apart on AOC here, I think her remarks were off base. But we disagree on Pelosi. I don't think she's doing a good job, and I think that's largely by design. I think she's nearly as opposed to AOC and the progressives as the GOP is. To me, Nancy Pelosi represents the status quo, and the status quo is mostly bullshit.

And of course you used blue to differentiate your text from mine. OF COURSE it was blue. You're not fooling anyone, steve.

steveschneider wrote:Of course the GOP is going to dismantled ACA. That's their long game and the right is far better at the long game than the left. Right now Dems hold what 1/6 of power in Government? What is Pelosi supposed to do when she doesn't have much? Also, AOC has been admonished by members of her party today including African American members of her party.  I posted a link to a good op-ed that outlines the AOC problem.

steveschneider wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/12/about-that-aoc-problem/?utm_term=.fa685c115ac2

Also, Rubin is right AOC made this a ridiculous indictment on Pelosi which was unnecessary.

If the right is better than the left at the long game, then shouldn't the left consider pivoting from the long game to something else?

RE: the article. I'm not giving Jeff Bezos any more of my money than he's already gotten/getting through Amazon, otherwise I would give it a read.
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-12, 11:51

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:
So you haven't seen it and you don't know anything about it but that's not going to stop you from arguing with me? Got it.

It was never my intention to argue with you about what the staffer tweeted. You are the one who brought that up, I simply responded that I had not seen it. I was engaging on AOC vs. Pelosi.

steveschneider wrote:We are actually in agreement but knowing your past that probably won't stop you coming back with something else.

Yeah, I don't think we're too far apart on AOC here, I think her remarks were off base. But we disagree on Pelosi. I don't think she's doing a good job, and I think that's largely by design. I think she's nearly as opposed to AOC and the progressives as the GOP is. To me, Nancy Pelosi represents the status quo, and the status quo is mostly bullshit.

And of course you used blue to differentiate your text from mine. OF COURSE it was blue. You're not fooling anyone, steve.

steveschneider wrote:Of course the GOP is going to dismantled ACA. That's their long game and the right is far better at the long game than the left. Right now Dems hold what 1/6 of power in Government? What is Pelosi supposed to do when she doesn't have much? Also, AOC has been admonished by members of her party today including African American members of her party.  I posted a link to a good op-ed that outlines the AOC problem.

steveschneider wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/12/about-that-aoc-problem/?utm_term=.fa685c115ac2

Also, Rubin is right AOC made this a ridiculous indictment on Pelosi which was unnecessary.

If the right is better than the left at the long game, then shouldn't the left consider pivoting from the long game to something else?

What's the alternative? As far as I can see the only thing to do is win elections and organize. Again the Dems have 1/6 the power in government right now. A lot of the right found Trump terrible but they still plugged their nose and voted for him to get a supreme court judge. The left implodes into 'fuck pelosi, fuck chuck, fuck the centrists'. The far left has no long game, they are for quick results (which isn't realistic) and they can't get anything done except stir up attention. Call me up when the far left gets a major piece of legislation to pass. Made my text red this time to be fair and balanced.

RE: the article. I'm not giving Jeff Bezos any more of my money than he's already gotten/getting through Amazon, otherwise I would give it a read.
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Post by Cameron on 2019-07-12, 13:42

steveschneider wrote:
What's the alternative? As far as I can see the only thing to do is win elections and organize. Again the Dems have 1/6 the power in government right now. A lot of the right found Trump terrible but they still plugged their nose and voted for him to get a supreme court judge. The left implodes into 'fuck pelosi, fuck chuck, fuck the centrists'. The far left has no long game, they are for quick results (which isn't realistic) and they can't get anything done except stir up attention. Call me up when the far left gets a major piece of legislation to pass. Made my text red this time to be fair and balanced.

The alternative is to actually do something, or at least attempt it, right now, and to stop worshiping at the altar of incrementalism and defeatism. Sometimes, there is value in losing. Sure, the senate will block any attempt to impeach Trump, but I believe there would be a benefit to getting an impeachment inquiry under way. To say nothing of the fact that it is the duty of congress to impeach the president if they believe there are valid grounds to do so, regardless of the political expediency. Moreover, if we're to believe that climate change is an existential crisis, that the migrant detention centers are concentration camps, and that the GOP is actively working to disenfranchise pretty much everyone they can, those are very important issues and merit a sense of urgency that is fucking non-existent in Pelosi's faction.

Also, I wasn't contrasting blue to red (despite this being the politics forum), I was contrasting blue to green. I'm on to you, steve.
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-12, 14:28

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:
What's the alternative? As far as I can see the only thing to do is win elections and organize. Again the Dems have 1/6 the power in government right now. A lot of the right found Trump terrible but they still plugged their nose and voted for him to get a supreme court judge. The left implodes into 'fuck pelosi, fuck chuck, fuck the centrists'. The far left has no long game, they are for quick results (which isn't realistic) and they can't get anything done except stir up attention. Call me up when the far left gets a major piece of legislation to pass. Made my text red this time to be fair and balanced.

The alternative is to actually do something, or at least attempt it, right now, and to stop worshiping at the altar of incrementalism and defeatism. Sometimes, there is value in losing. Sure, the senate will block any attempt to impeach Trump, but I believe there would be a benefit to getting an impeachment inquiry under way. To say nothing of the fact that it is the duty of congress to impeach the president if they believe there are valid grounds to do so, regardless of the political expediency. Moreover, if we're to believe that climate change is an existential crisis, that the migrant detention centers are concentration camps, and that the GOP is actively working to disenfranchise pretty much everyone they can, those are very important issues and merit a sense of urgency that is fucking non-existent in Pelosi's faction.

Also, I wasn't contrasting blue to red (despite this being the politics forum), I was contrasting blue to green. I'm on to you, steve.

We are entering ground again where we agree.

For the environment check my Prius thread and recycling thread.

For impeachment yes, I think they should move to impeach but I've weighed out the arguments against it. I may be wrong on that one but ultimately I buy into the Alan Lichtman case for impeachment. Stopping the concentration camps is another area where we agree. Again, Dems have very limited power and Pelosi is open about this. What are they supposed to do? Honestly, I think the real target for our ire is the general public that votes for this insanity, supports it and turns a blind eye to the horrors. All these problems me and you identify may just be exactly what America is and wants to be.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2019-07-12, 16:20


If you have to issue a clarification that Pelosi isn't a racist but you feel you were singled out because of your gender and color......well....you're an idiot. I was all for the young woman getting elected and maybe making us all think or look at things differently. But honestly, up to this point, she's been a complete failure and comes across as someone who likes the sound of her own voice and getting reaction on Twitter.

And the obsession with her in the media is partly her own doing. She needs to chill. She needs to understand that Pelosi is skilled at this game and the Dems are going to sink or swim with her at the helm. Don't start punching holes in the boat before you leave the harbor.
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-12, 16:33

kingstonlake wrote:

If you have to issue a clarification that Pelosi isn't a racist but you feel you were singled out because of your gender and color......well....you're an idiot. I was all for the young woman getting elected and maybe making us all think or look at things differently. But honestly, up to this point, she's been a complete failure and comes across as someone who likes the sound of her own voice and getting reaction on Twitter.

And the obsession with her in the media is partly her own doing. She needs to chill. She needs to understand that Pelosi is skilled at this game and the Dems are going to sink or swim with her at the helm. Don't start punching holes in the boat before you leave the harbor.

Couldn't agree more. I've been supportive of her up to this week, I think her attack on Pelosi and the staff member who attacked the caucus was ridiculous and harmful to the cause.

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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-14, 10:51

Racist Trump tells the quad (four women of color) to go back wherever they came from. What an asshat.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2019-07-14, 11:02

steveschneider wrote:Racist Trump tells the quad (four women of color) to go back wherever they came from. What an asshat.
his racist, misogynistic rants gives his friends in the mainstream media something else to cover besides christians locking brown people in cages.

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Post by kingstonlake on 2019-07-14, 12:28

I wonder is AOC is more offended by Trump's overt racism or Pelosi's latent racism.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2019-07-14, 12:54

kingstonlake wrote:I wonder is AOC is more offended by Trump's overt racism or Pelosi's latent racism.
I'd say it's inversely proportionate to the mainstream media level of outrage.

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Post by kingstonlake on 2019-07-14, 13:26

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:I wonder is AOC is more offended by Trump's overt racism or Pelosi's latent racism.
I'd say it's inversely proportionate to the mainstream media level of outrage.


You're gonna have to dummy those fancy words down for me Bob. Which racist do you think she's more offended by?
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Post by steveschneider on 2019-07-14, 15:37

kingstonlake wrote:I wonder is AOC is more offended by Trump's overt racism or Pelosi's latent racism.

I agree with this entire thread.

https://twitter.com/therickwilson/status/1150475290411438081

[tw]1150475290411438081[/tw]

Winning 2020 is going to be more about going towards the center than further to the left like the quad wants to go. From my view Biden seems like the best bet.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2019-07-14, 17:54

Remember when you'd call republicans "racist" and they'd vociferously deny it?

Now they're just like "yeah.. but jesus"....tOfficial "The GOP and Mainstream Media is Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez" Thread..  - Page 14 502811600
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Post by Rocinante on 2019-07-14, 22:44

Team AOC.
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Post by DWags on 2019-07-14, 23:02

Rocinante wrote:Team AOC.

So is Trump.
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Post by Rocinante on 2019-07-14, 23:55

Yeah I don’t care. If we want to make a better world we need to start demanding it. Incrementalism won’t work. I live in Wyoming so I can afford to be radical. If you can’t, fine.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2019-07-15, 05:28

Aaaaaand Commander heel spurs willingly plays hot potato with the race card....
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