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The 2020 Presidential campaign.

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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 6/17/2020, 12:22 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I happily admit that I'm an idiot.

But I just don't need to be lectured by the pointy-headed media elitist types who are responsible for normalizing the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator and, as such, have benefited from his assault on decent Americans, the Constitution and traditional American values.

Live it up dude.. enjoy the articles. there are things I'm interested it.. that just isn't one of them. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 12 969504605

The authors Bob says are "pointy-headed media elitist types."

Spencer Piston is an assistant professor of political science at Boston University and author of Class Attitudes in America. He studies the politics of economic and racial inequality in the United States, focusing on public opinion, political behavior, the welfare state, and the criminal justice system.

Nic Cheeseman is a professor of democracy at the University of Birmingham and the author of “How to Rig an Election” (Yale University Press, 2018).
and who knows what their agenda is.. and I suspect whatever these fine scholars may think, their wealth of wisdom was filtered through the mainstream media.

I'll have to say to you what I say to Miami.. I'm sorry I have my own opinions in things. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 12 502811600

Again, enjoy the articles. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 12 969504605
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 6/17/2020, 12:24 pm

Cameron wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

The authors Bob says are "pointy-headed media elitist types."

Spencer Piston is an assistant professor of political science at Boston University and author of Class Attitudes in America. He studies the politics of economic and racial inequality in the United States, focusing on public opinion, political behavior, the welfare state, and the criminal justice system.

Nic Cheeseman is a professor of democracy at the University of Birmingham and the author of “How to Rig an Election” (Yale University Press, 2018).

Bob's not interested in what some fancy book man has to say. Bob don't need no learnin', he trusts his own gut. He already knows everything he needs to know about everything.

Bob may be liberal, but he's just as ignorant and closed-minded as any conservative you'll ever meet. Doesn't stop him from smugly talking about how stupid those people are for being that way, of course. But nothing stops him from talking, as we're all aware.
thank you.. that's all I'm saying.
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Post by Cameron on 6/17/2020, 12:45 pm

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

The point was that comparing people who aren't panicking about Trump not leaving office to Neville Chamberlain is absurd and unfitting. So I decided to answer one instance of Godwin's law with another.

It's really not that complicated, Mrs. Hitler.

My analogy was comparing to a Brit.

You were invoking Chamberlain as an oblique reference to Trump = Hitler. Godwin's Law applies, case closed.
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Post by steveschneider on 6/17/2020, 12:54 pm

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

My analogy was comparing to a Brit.

You were invoking Chamberlain as an oblique reference to Trump = Hitler. Godwin's Law applies, case closed.

Got it. What are you going to pull out of your ass next the seven degrees of Kevin Bacon?
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Post by Cameron on 6/17/2020, 1:21 pm

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

You were invoking Chamberlain as an oblique reference to Trump = Hitler. Godwin's Law applies, case closed.

Got it. What are you going to pull out of your ass next the seven degrees of Kevin Bacon?

Don't get pissy with me, steve, I'm not the one who invented Godwin's law. Pretty sure that guy's name was Godwin.
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Post by Turtleneck on 6/17/2020, 1:26 pm

Bob, you really don't have your own opinions. I don't really see you saying anything that is both original and substantive. Also, why send your child to college if you have such disdain for intellectualism? I'm am sure your child could have stayed home and learned all about everything from your "all the times I was drunk" stories.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 6/17/2020, 1:33 pm

Turtleneck wrote:Bob, you really don't have your own opinions. I don't really see you saying anything that is both original and substantive. Also, why send your child to college if you have such disdain for intellectualism? I'm am sure your child could have stayed home and learned all about everything from your "all the times I was drunk" stories.
she's already heard those stories..

And we allowed her freedom to explore her interests (crazy, right?).. so she went off to college.


As far as "original and substantive" things I or anyone else might say, I've never witnessed internet message boards being fertile ground for an intellectual exchange of ideas that catalyze societal evolution.

Again, I just prefer to be an idiot. I wish that could be enough for you.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 6/17/2020, 1:36 pm

Now if ya wanna talk bands, music, running, getting out on the bike.. I'm down with that.

(put in 42 miles on my bike this morning.. got home, had a beer, made lunch.. all with tunes cranked.. almost nap time).

(had Lucinda Williams - Live From The Fillmore on)

Great record.
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Post by steveschneider on 6/17/2020, 2:01 pm

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

Got it. What are you going to pull out of your ass next the seven degrees of Kevin Bacon?

Don't get pissy with me, steve, I'm not the one who invented Godwin's law. Pretty sure that guy's name was Godwin.

I'm sure Godwin wouldn't be too wild about your application of his law.
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Post by steveschneider on 6/17/2020, 2:41 pm

https://twitter.com/benyt/status/1273211947845107714?s=21

Asshole from NYT whining that Joe Biden hasn’t done a press conference in two months. It should be noted last time he held a press conference, round table, town hall or gave a speech the press barely covered it including his own paper.
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Post by steveschneider on 6/17/2020, 4:05 pm

Trump asking China for help to win in 2020. Yeah, this guy isn’t going to go quietly.

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Post by MiamiSpartan on 6/17/2020, 4:12 pm

steveschneider wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:


Lol, what if they do? Who cares? Does that mean he rules because he sits in the White House? That's not how the government works.

Not to mention it isn't like they could do anything to protect him.

You guys sound like Chamberlain just sitting back waiting for the right thing to happen and putting faith into the system and the fascist to do the right thing. I'm no historian but I'm willing to bet whenever an authoritarian rises up and takes power it's hard to accept that it could happen where you are living. I'm sure disbelief keeps people idle while the dictator seizes control and goes for the take over.


Steve, I'm not like Travis, and in fact I agree with the premise of what you're trying to say here above (even if the analogy falls short). I think we absolutely should think of and consider the possibilities. That's how you stay vigilant, which I think you were getting at with the Chamberlain analogy. Travis wants to dismiss any discussion/contemplating of potential scenarios out of hand, but the problem with that, is that if something does happen, it's usually too late. We were discussing this prior to the whole photo op thing and his use of the military (and threats to do more of it). I think there is certainly a decent possibility that he was testing to see where the military would stand. If he gets that precedent set of using the military against civilians for his personal political ends, then that is a major chip that he holds in the game.

What I was disagreeing with you on, is the how and the effectiveness. I'll ignore the extreme unlikelihood, even within such a scenario of him refusing to leave, that his supporters would somehow have the courage, will, and skillset to overtake the Secret Service let alone keep him protected in the White House. But even if that miracle occurred, that doesn't make him president. It just means he's effectively in a luxurious prison.

When this came up a few weeks ago, I said that the Supreme Court would never side with him if he lost, short of some very REAL evidence of fraud that benefited him. Not in a million years. Such an act would destroy their own institution. And I also said that the military leadership would never side with him over the Constitution and rule of law. Since that discussion, the whole "photo op" thing, and the ensuing fall out proves where the military will stand when he even comes close to crossing the line. The SCOTUS decision of the other day also shows that they will not choose him over the Constitution. So if he loses and refuses to leave, he won't have legitimacy, won't be the legal president, and won't have power to exert any authority. The GOP wouldn't be willing or able to try to do anything about it either. They're in it for themselves, and the only thing worse for their political career than going against Trump right now, would be siding with him in an attempt to institute a dictatorship over the Constitution, Supreme Court, Military, and all of our international allies.
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Post by kingstonlake on 6/17/2020, 4:27 pm

I’m all for giving him and his cult Mississippi and Alabama if they all promise to live there. They already have a flag.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 6/17/2020, 4:49 pm

steveschneider wrote:https://twitter.com/benyt/status/1273211947845107714?s=21

Asshole from NYT whining that Joe Biden hasn’t done a press conference in two months. It should be noted last time he held a press conference, round table, town hall or gave a speech the press barely covered it including his own paper.
the mainstream media is gonna mainstream media.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 6/17/2020, 4:55 pm

steveschneider wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:


Lol, what if they do? Who cares? Does that mean he rules because he sits in the White House? That's not how the government works.

Not to mention it isn't like they could do anything to protect him.

You guys sound like Chamberlain just sitting back waiting for the right thing to happen and putting faith into the system and the fascist to do the right thing. I'm no historian but I'm willing to bet whenever an authoritarian rises up and takes power it's hard to accept that it could happen where you are living. I'm sure disbelief keeps people idle while the dictator seizes control and goes for the take over.

Not surprisingly, I have to comment on the Chamberlain analogy. I see what you were trying to do, but a Chamberlain analogy would only really apply if Pelosi and the Democrats acquiesced to his demands, (hypothetically, to cancel the election or otherwise stay in power), all under the threat of civil war if they said No. There are a few better analogies with Hitler. In terms of international relations, the occupation of the Rhineland in 1936 is a great example of when all of his plans could have been stopped without a shot being fired. That was really the stepping stone, which wasn't an act of war or a takeover of foreign land, and not something that was all that horrible to allow in a vacuum. But it was where Hitler tested what he could get away with, and what kind of pushback he'd receive. In the Trump analogy, I'd liken this to his attempted use of the military against US citizens. Fortunately, the military pushed back, unlike France in 1936.

Domestically in Germany, there are quite a few red flags, and places that Hitler could have been stopped with a little pushback or if some people had some backbone. But Germany was more fractured, and with a weaker, much less established form of government (not even 15 years old). People sometimes say "Remember, Hitler was democratically elected." While somewhat true, he also quickly moved (successfully) to eliminate that democracy. So yeah, little things that Trump does that could lead to something like that is something worth watching.
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Post by steveschneider on 6/17/2020, 5:09 pm

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

You guys sound like Chamberlain just sitting back waiting for the right thing to happen and putting faith into the system and the fascist to do the right thing. I'm no historian but I'm willing to bet whenever an authoritarian rises up and takes power it's hard to accept that it could happen where you are living. I'm sure disbelief keeps people idle while the dictator seizes control and goes for the take over.


Steve, I'm not like Travis, and in fact I agree with the premise of what you're trying to say here above (even if the analogy falls short). I think we absolutely should think of and consider the possibilities. That's how you stay vigilant, which I think you were getting at with the Chamberlain analogy. Travis wants to dismiss any discussion/contemplating of potential scenarios out of hand, but the problem with that, is that if something does happen, it's usually too late. We were discussing this prior to the whole photo op thing and his use of the military (and threats to do more of it). I think there is certainly a decent possibility that he was testing to see where the military would stand. If he gets that precedent set of using the military against civilians for his personal political ends, then that is a major chip that he holds in the game.

What I was disagreeing with you on, is the how and the effectiveness. I'll ignore the extreme unlikelihood, even within such a scenario of him refusing to leave, that his supporters would somehow have the courage, will, and skillset to overtake the Secret Service let alone keep him protected in the White House. But even if that miracle occurred, that doesn't make him president. It just means he's effectively in a luxurious prison.

When this came up a few weeks ago, I said that the Supreme Court would never side with him if he lost, short of some very REAL evidence of fraud that benefited him. Not in a million years. Such an act would destroy their own institution. And I also said that the military leadership would never side with him over the Constitution and rule of law. Since that discussion, the whole "photo op" thing, and the ensuing fall out proves where the military will stand when he even comes close to crossing the line. The SCOTUS decision of the other day also shows that they will not choose him over the Constitution. So if he loses and refuses to leave, he won't have legitimacy, won't be the legal president, and won't have power to exert any authority. The GOP wouldn't be willing or able to try to do anything about it either. They're in it for themselves, and the only thing worse for their political career than going against Trump right now, would be siding with him in an attempt to institute a dictatorship over the Constitution, Supreme Court, Military, and all of our international allies.

I read this post slow and carefully to make sure I got all the points. Yeah, I agree with your two points of optimism like with the military coming out speaking against Trump's sleazy photo op and the recent supreme court ruling. If it goes that far I think I can count on my boy Gorsuch to do the right thing.

I'm still worried though, I've seen millions of people look the other way when this guy does terrible things or things that damage the country. Look at Covid19 wave one is STILL devastating areas of this country, he hasn't had a press conference about it, the press hasn't held him accountable and the GOP is crickets.
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Post by GRR Spartan on 6/17/2020, 8:47 pm

Shit’s getting real.

The US Department of Justice has filed seeking an emergency order to stop Bolton’s book from being released for sale and to stop any additional printing.

Not Trump’s personal lawyers, not Trump 2020 lawyers, the freakin’ DOJ so we are picking up the tab.

If the emergency stop order doesn’t succeed, the DOJ is threatening to go after Bolton on criminal charges for exposing National Security issues.

https://time.com/5854641/trump-administration-justice-department-john-bolton-book/
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Post by kingstonlake on 6/17/2020, 9:33 pm

Interesting there doesn’t seem to be a denial of the content.
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Post by steveschneider on 6/17/2020, 9:42 pm

Pffft will the content of Bolton’s book even matter? His cult loves it and if we get mad about it it’s just liberal tears.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 6/17/2020, 9:56 pm

steveschneider wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:


Steve, I'm not like Travis, and in fact I agree with the premise of what you're trying to say here above (even if the analogy falls short). I think we absolutely should think of and consider the possibilities. That's how you stay vigilant, which I think you were getting at with the Chamberlain analogy. Travis wants to dismiss any discussion/contemplating of potential scenarios out of hand, but the problem with that, is that if something does happen, it's usually too late. We were discussing this prior to the whole photo op thing and his use of the military (and threats to do more of it). I think there is certainly a decent possibility that he was testing to see where the military would stand. If he gets that precedent set of using the military against civilians for his personal political ends, then that is a major chip that he holds in the game.

What I was disagreeing with you on, is the how and the effectiveness. I'll ignore the extreme unlikelihood, even within such a scenario of him refusing to leave, that his supporters would somehow have the courage, will, and skillset to overtake the Secret Service let alone keep him protected in the White House. But even if that miracle occurred, that doesn't make him president. It just means he's effectively in a luxurious prison.

When this came up a few weeks ago, I said that the Supreme Court would never side with him if he lost, short of some very REAL evidence of fraud that benefited him. Not in a million years. Such an act would destroy their own institution. And I also said that the military leadership would never side with him over the Constitution and rule of law. Since that discussion, the whole "photo op" thing, and the ensuing fall out proves where the military will stand when he even comes close to crossing the line. The SCOTUS decision of the other day also shows that they will not choose him over the Constitution. So if he loses and refuses to leave, he won't have legitimacy, won't be the legal president, and won't have power to exert any authority. The GOP wouldn't be willing or able to try to do anything about it either. They're in it for themselves, and the only thing worse for their political career than going against Trump right now, would be siding with him in an attempt to institute a dictatorship over the Constitution, Supreme Court, Military, and all of our international allies.

I read this post slow and carefully to make sure I got all the points. Yeah, I agree with your two points of optimism like with the military coming out speaking against Trump's sleazy photo op and the recent supreme court ruling. If it goes that far I think I can count on my boy Gorsuch to do the right thing.

I'm still worried though, I've seen millions of people look the other way when this guy does terrible things or things that damage the country. Look at Covid19 wave one is STILL devastating areas of this country, he hasn't had a press conference about it, the press hasn't held him accountable and the GOP is crickets.

What do you consider "holding accountable"? The media is constantly criticizing Trump over Covid, from the mask stuff, to holding a rally in a state that is spiking, to his lies about that state's numbers being good, to not talking to Fauci in 2 weeks, to someone on the task force saying that he's in denial, to Pence's ridiculous op ed acting like it is over. And that's all just things I've seen in the last few hours since I shut down from working.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 6/17/2020, 10:07 pm

steveschneider wrote:Pffft will the content of Bolton’s book even matter? His cult loves it and if we get mad about it it’s just liberal tears.

On the one hand, fuck Bolton for waiting to capitalize on a book rather than stepping up and saying something about this (to more than just Barr). And especially Fuck Bolton for saying the House impeachment investigation was too narrow. You wouldn't talk to them, jackass! Well, let me qualify that by saying unless Bolton was the whistleblower, or perhaps more likely, is the one that told the WB the things in the report, then I kind of understand him not testifying.

On the other hand him testifying before the House would have had precisely zero effect on the outcome. So perhaps it is better to release it now from the standpoint of removing him, as it will be more recent during the election cycle. It absolutely kills Trump's attempts to tie Biden to China, when you fucking ask China for help in the election and encourage them to put a minority group in concentration camps.
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Post by Turtleneck on 6/17/2020, 10:22 pm

Bolton's book is already out there. They can stop it all they want, but it's too late.


Wednesday’s move sought to formally enjoin Bolton from allowing his book to be published, a legal strategy experts said was unlikely to succeed, particularly given that the book has already been printed and shipped to warehouses and copies distributed to the media for review.

In a statement, Bolton’s publisher called the court filing “a frivolous, politically motivated exercise in futility. Hundreds of thousands of copies of John Bolton’s ‘The Room Where It Happened’ have already been distributed around the country and the world. The injunction as requested by the government would accomplish nothing.’’

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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 6/17/2020, 10:37 pm

Miami, does his photo op really prove that "the military" is behind him? Wasn't it some rogue police forces or something that helped clear the way for him?
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Post by Turtleneck on 6/17/2020, 10:42 pm

steveschneider wrote:Pffft will the content of Bolton’s book even matter? His cult loves it and if we get mad about it it’s just liberal tears.

No. It will confirm what we already know. It will also confirm what many GOP members of Congress already know, but like Bolton, were too cowardly to do anything when it mattered.
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Post by Turtleneck on 6/17/2020, 10:51 pm

Got some music for you, Bob. Play it loud, play it often.

[tw]1273416410283290625?s=20[/tw]
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 6/17/2020, 11:38 pm

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Miami, does his photo op really prove that "the military" is behind him? Wasn't it some rogue police forces or something that helped clear the way for him?

No, I was saying that the photo op proves that the military is NOT behind him, or at least not to the extent of him using them for his personal political aims in violation of the constitution. I guess I just called it the photo op for short hand, but I was referring to everything surrounding it in that hour or so span of time, from the speech minutes before threatening to use the military against protestors all over the country, to the clearing of the protestors, to the reaction from some of the most respected military leaders of the last quarter century, most of whom never speak out about politics. They've been very clear about their distaste for his threats. While most that spoke out are not active, I don't think active duty leaders are going to think much differently, especially as the likes of Powell, Mattis, Kelly, Clark, etc. are mentors and heroes to those men and women.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 6/17/2020, 11:55 pm

Ok thank you for the clarification. I should have read it a little bit closer.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 6/18/2020, 5:50 am

Turtleneck wrote:Got some music for you, Bob. Play it loud, play it often.

[tw]1273416410283290625?s=20[/tw]
it's a Klandemic.
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 6/18/2020, 7:12 am

[tw]1273573080225296384[/tw]
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Post by NigelUno on 6/18/2020, 7:18 am

Is Trump self sabotaging at this point?

(I think he is, but not on purpose.)

If he has a strong feeling he's going to lose, will he just back out (so, he doesn't officially lose) before the election?

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Post by kingstonlake on 6/18/2020, 7:42 am

And the election moves closer and closer to voting against minorities and women vs whatever the other option is.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 6/18/2020, 8:19 am

NigelUno wrote:Is Trump self sabotaging at this point?

(I think he is, but not on purpose.)

If he has a strong feeling he's going to lose, will he just back out (so, he doesn't officially lose) before the election?  

I've been telling my wife for a while that I don't think he'll be the nominee come November. I'm sure I've said it here some, as well.

I think he could either go on to be with his lord and savior jesus christ by then or I could see him declaring America great again and riding off into the massage parlor sunset to continue spreading syphilis to little girls..

I'd say there is about a 50% chance of one of these things happening.
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Post by kingstonlake on 6/18/2020, 8:20 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
NigelUno wrote:Is Trump self sabotaging at this point?

(I think he is, but not on purpose.)

If he has a strong feeling he's going to lose, will he just back out (so, he doesn't officially lose) before the election?  

I've been telling my wife for a while that I don't think he'll be the nominee come November. I'm sure I've said it here some, as well.

I think he could either go on to be with his lord and savior jesus christ by then or I could see him declaring America great again and riding off into the massage parlor sunset to continue spreading syphilis to little girls..

I'd say there is about a 50% chance of one of these things happening.

I’m pretty sure math is discouraged in this thread, bob.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 6/18/2020, 8:23 am

kingstonlake wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I've been telling my wife for a while that I don't think he'll be the nominee come November. I'm sure I've said it here some, as well.

I think he could either go on to be with his lord and savior jesus christ by then or I could see him declaring America great again and riding off into the massage parlor sunset to continue spreading syphilis to little girls..

I'd say there is about a 50% chance of one of these things happening.

I’m pretty sure math is discouraged in this thread, bob.
sorry.

not sure what I was thinking.
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Post by steveschneider on 6/18/2020, 9:12 am

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:Pffft will the content of Bolton’s book even matter? His cult loves it and if we get mad about it it’s just liberal tears.

On the one hand, fuck Bolton for waiting to capitalize on a book rather than stepping up and saying something about this (to more than just Barr).  And especially Fuck Bolton for saying the House impeachment investigation was too narrow.  You wouldn't talk to them, jackass!  Well, let me qualify that by saying unless Bolton was the whistleblower, or perhaps more likely, is the one that told the WB the things in the report, then I kind of understand him not testifying.  

On the other hand him testifying before the House would have had precisely zero effect on the outcome.  So perhaps it is better to release it now from the standpoint of removing him, as it will be more recent during the election cycle.  It absolutely kills Trump's attempts to tie Biden to China, when you fucking ask China for help in the election and encourage them to put a minority group in concentration camps.

It’s funny I have a friend that’s decided to be a trump fan that texts me to start debates about trump. According to him Biden is a pussy grabbing racist that is in bed with China. I think that’s what happens when you listen to Fox News and podcasts.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 6/18/2020, 9:33 am

NigelUno wrote:Is Trump self sabotaging at this point?

(I think he is, but not on purpose.)

If he has a strong feeling he's going to lose, will he just back out (so, he doesn't officially lose) before the election?


No. He had a strong feeling he’d lose the first time around and didn’t back out. I don’t think he’d do that now either
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Post by Turtleneck on 6/18/2020, 9:41 am

Doesn’t sound like much of a friend, Steve.
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Post by steveschneider on 6/18/2020, 9:46 am

Turtleneck wrote:Doesn’t sound like much of a friend, Steve.

I try to keep a diverse friend base and so that I'm not stuck in some woke bubble of oat milk drinkers.
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Post by GRR Spartan on 6/18/2020, 10:13 am

Trump is starting to sweat.

Yesterday he reportedly said an NFL team should sign Kaepernick.
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Post by steveschneider on 6/18/2020, 10:19 am

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I read this post slow and carefully to make sure I got all the points. Yeah, I agree with your two points of optimism like with the military coming out speaking against Trump's sleazy photo op and the recent supreme court ruling. If it goes that far I think I can count on my boy Gorsuch to do the right thing.

I'm still worried though, I've seen millions of people look the other way when this guy does terrible things or things that damage the country. Look at Covid19 wave one is STILL devastating areas of this country, he hasn't had a press conference about it, the press hasn't held him accountable and the GOP is crickets.

What do you consider "holding accountable"? The media is constantly criticizing Trump over Covid, from the mask stuff, to holding a rally in a state that is spiking, to his lies about that state's numbers being good, to not talking to Fauci in 2 weeks, to someone on the task force saying that he's in denial, to Pence's ridiculous op ed acting like it is over. And that's all just things I've seen in the last few hours since I shut down from working.

I strongly believe the press should call him a liar, a racist and mentally ill. They should also call for him to resign.
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