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The 2020 Presidential campaign.

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Post by Turtleneck on 2020-06-18, 10:23

steveschneider wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:Doesn’t sound like much of a friend, Steve.

I try to keep a diverse friend base and so that I'm not stuck in some woke bubble of oat milk drinkers.

You can keep a diverse friend base without those friends intentionally trying to start fights with you.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-18, 10:37

NigelUno wrote:Is Trump self sabotaging at this point?

(I think he is, but not on purpose.)

If he has a strong feeling he's going to lose, will he just back out (so, he doesn't officially lose) before the election?



I don't know about self-sabotaging, and based on Bolton's comments that everything he does for 3 years is about getting re-elected, I don't think he's backing out. I think there are a few possibilities for what/why he's doing what he's doing, not all of which are mutually exclusive.

1. He knows that it's a high likelihood that he's going to lose, so he's just saying, "Fuck it, let's trash this place on the way out."

2. He feels that his only chance of winning is to get the economy back, as that was mostly all he had going for him before the pandemic. So he's just saying, "Fuck it, open up the economy. If it causes a shit ton more deaths, but the economy comes back and I stay in office, that's all that matters. If it doesn't bring the economy back, I'm voted out anyway."

3. He feels that a greater spread of covid is his best chance to stay in office. Keep the numbers high, have things get even worse in the fall, then come November the rational people will be afraid to go to the polls, and the mail-in voting will be too big to count in the allotted time.

4. He's just trying to divide the country. It has been said that this was a strategy of his in 2016, and he's imploring it again.

Overall, I think the covid thing hit him hard. Yes he was late to the game on that, but from about mid-March to mid-April, he at least feigned concern, feigned that he was listening to the experts, etc. But I think when he realized that this wasn't just going to go away so easily and return to normal, he just said Fuck it, let's just move on, whatever the consequences.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-18, 10:50

steveschneider wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

What do you consider "holding accountable"? The media is constantly criticizing Trump over Covid, from the mask stuff, to holding a rally in a state that is spiking, to his lies about that state's numbers being good, to not talking to Fauci in 2 weeks, to someone on the task force saying that he's in denial, to Pence's ridiculous op ed acting like it is over. And that's all just things I've seen in the last few hours since I shut down from working.

I strongly believe the press should call him a liar, a racist and mentally ill. They should also call for him to resign.

I have often heard the press call him a liar, a racist, and mentally ill. Doesn't the NYT or Wapo (or both) have a running total of the tens of thousands of lies that he's told? I haven't seen many call for him to resign, though I have seen some pundits mention it on occasion. Asking him to resign is pretty futile, though.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 10:59

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I strongly believe the press should call him a liar, a racist and mentally ill. They should also call for him to resign.

I have often heard the press call him a liar, a racist, and mentally ill. Doesn't the NYT or Wapo (or both) have a running total of the tens of thousands of lies that he's told? I haven't seen many call for him to resign, though I have seen some pundits mention it on occasion. Asking him to resign is pretty futile, though.

I read the NYT everyday never saw them call him a liar, a racist or mentally ill. They always circle around the word liar and use phrasing like 'trump claims without evidence'. When Clinton had the Lewinsky scandal papers across the nation called for him to step down, my how the times have changed.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-06-18, 11:53

I like to comment but you guys know the rules about speculation On the coming election or talking about previous elections. Tread lightly. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 1494614055
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 2020-06-18, 11:56

I don't even know what thread to put this in, so here.

[tw]1273643898670325760[/tw]

Whoa Nellie look at that spin.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-18, 12:00

Floyd Robertson wrote:I don't even know what thread to put this in, so here.

[tw]1273643898670325760[/tw]

Whoa Nellie look at that spin.
the mainstream media doing mainstream media things.

just wait'll they start parading this traitor around on their cute little shows for the knuckle-draggin' masses to enjoy.

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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 12:21

https://twitter.com/mikememoli/status/1273643539776376837?s=21

This is the brilliance of Biden he just gets it. Will be great to have a non Klansman in the office.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-18, 12:26

steveschneider wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

I have often heard the press call him a liar, a racist, and mentally ill.  Doesn't the NYT or Wapo (or both) have a running total of the tens of thousands of lies that he's told?  I haven't seen many call for him to resign, though I have seen some pundits mention it on occasion.  Asking him to resign is pretty futile, though.  

I read the NYT everyday never saw them call him a liar, a racist or mentally ill. They always circle around the word liar and use phrasing like 'trump claims without evidence'. When Clinton had the Lewinsky scandal papers across the nation called for him to step down, my how the times have changed.

Maybe one paper shouldn't be used for generalized claims about the media as a whole?  But even looking at that one paper, just from the first few results on a google search of "new york times trump liar":

The President is Lying about Coronavirus

Is President Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar?

T r u m p ’ s   L i e s

For Trump, Lying Is a Super Power

No One Believes Trump  (Ok, the headline doesn't say the word "lies" or "Liar", but the URL includes "trump-suleimani-lies").

Lies? False Claims? When Trump’s Statements Aren’t True

And, although it's from the Washington Post (from September 2016):
Why The New York Times Decided It Is Now Okay To Call Donald Trump A Liar


But even to your point, I know you want the media to be like twitter rant, but the major outlets are actually professional news organizations that must maintain some semblance of decorum.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-06-18, 12:33

steveschneider wrote:https://twitter.com/mikememoli/status/1273643539776376837?s=21

This is the brilliance of Biden he just gets it. Will be great to have a non Klansman in the office.

Biden vs Trump is an easy and obvious choice.

Enthusiasm for Biden still perplexes me, though. Steve has a great big boner for him, and I just don't get it.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 12:33

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I read the NYT everyday never saw them call him a liar, a racist or mentally ill. They always circle around the word liar and use phrasing like 'trump claims without evidence'. When Clinton had the Lewinsky scandal papers across the nation called for him to step down, my how the times have changed.

Maybe one paper shouldn't be used for generalized claims about the media as a whole?  But even looking at that one paper, just from the first few results on a google search of "new york times trump liar":

The President is Lying about Coronavirus

That's an Op-ed. I've watched Trump tell some serious whoppers and their news room refuses to call them lies. I watch CNN and MSNBC from time to time and same deal. Anderson Cooper will dance around calling him a liar. Maggie Haberman etc.

Is President Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar?

See above.

T r u m p ’ s   L i e s

See above.

For Trump, Lying Is a Super Power

No One Believes Trump  (Ok, the headline doesn't say the word "lies" or "Liar", but the URL includes "trump-suleimani-lies").

See above.

Lies? False Claims? When Trump’s Statements Aren’t True

Good read. It outlines their policy of why they won't do it. I disagree with it. I think it's literally the most accurate and informative approach calling some of his lies lies.

And, although it's from the Washington Post (from September 2016):
Why The New York Times Decided It Is Now Okay To Call Donald Trump A Liar

I'll read this one later, I'm not sure that take is accurate. I think the policy you linked to is still the norm. I watch PBS News Hour almost every night and they also don't use the word liar. I've seen Yamiche, Judy, Amy, Tamara etc all dance around it when he tells a whopper.


But even to your point, I know you want the media to be like twitter rant, but the major outlets are actually professional news organizations that must maintain some semblance of decorum.


Last edited by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 12:40; edited 1 time in total
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 12:35

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:https://twitter.com/mikememoli/status/1273643539776376837?s=21

This is the brilliance of Biden he just gets it. Will be great to have a non Klansman in the office.

Biden vs Trump is an easy and obvious choice.

Enthusiasm for Biden still perplexes me, though. Steve has a great big boner for him, and I just don't get it.

I love America and I've felt from day 1 Biden was the best chance to beat Trump. Getting back to normal is what this is all about.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-06-18, 12:44

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Biden vs Trump is an easy and obvious choice.

Enthusiasm for Biden still perplexes me, though. Steve has a great big boner for him, and I just don't get it.

I love America and I've felt from day 1 Biden was the best chance to beat Trump. Getting back to normal is what this is all about.

Oh, believe me, I remember quite clearly that you were on team Joe from the get go. Your enthusiastic support for a dogshit candidate was dumb then, and it's dumb now.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 12:52

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I love America and I've felt from day 1 Biden was the best chance to beat Trump. Getting back to normal is what this is all about.

Oh, believe me, I remember quite clearly that you were on team Joe from the get go. Your enthusiastic support for a dogshit candidate was dumb then, and it's dumb now.

He’s the chosen one to end this nightmare.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-18, 12:56

always been a big Elizabeth Warren fan.. America isn't ready for a strong, bright engaging female, though..

after the media tore her apart (with the help, of course, a gullible electorate) I was definitely down with Joe. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 969504605
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2020-06-18, 13:29

I just passed a little Trump rally in Sterling Heights when I went to return the edger we rented to Sunbelt Tools. His lackey Pence is apparently in town praying the gay away and touring a manufacturing plant.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 13:35

Robert J Sakimano wrote:always been a big Elizabeth Warren fan.. America isn't ready for a strong, bright engaging female, though..

after the media tore her apart (with the help, of course, a gullible electorate) I was definitely down with Joe. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 969504605

If I had a magic genie lamp and they granted me a wish for the 2020 election I'd have no problem going for Elizabeth Warren. I'm a single issue voter this election. I do hope that he selects Elizabeth Warren for VP and sets her up for 2024.
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Post by NigelUno on 2020-06-18, 13:40

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I just passed a little Trump rally in Sterling Heights when I went to return the edger we rented to Sunbelt Tools. His lackey Pence is apparently in town praying the gay away and touring a manufacturing plant.

Did you drop The Pantry off?
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Post by Jake from State Farm on 2020-06-18, 13:43

MiamiSpartan wrote:
NigelUno wrote:Is Trump self sabotaging at this point?

(I think he is, but not on purpose.)

If he has a strong feeling he's going to lose, will he just back out (so, he doesn't officially lose) before the election?  



Overall, I think the covid thing hit him hard.  Yes he was late to the game on that, but from about mid-March to mid-April, he at least feigned concern, feigned that he was listening to the experts, etc.  But I think when he realized that this wasn't just going to go away so easily and return to normal, he just said Fuck it, let's just move on, whatever the consequences.
I don't think he's ever given a rats ass about covid. There's been absolutely zero leadership from him on trying to minimize the effects since the gitgo, even though he's had numerous chances to at least try to set an example. I suppose in his feeble little mind he figured anything he could do would make him look weak. Heck, he's still planning rallies with his followers so that they can stand cheek to cheek to cheek and cheer him on and filing suit to make sure that they can.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-18, 13:47

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I read the NYT everyday never saw them call him a liar, a racist or mentally ill. They always circle around the word liar and use phrasing like 'trump claims without evidence'. When Clinton had the Lewinsky scandal papers across the nation called for him to step down, my how the times have changed.

Maybe one paper shouldn't be used for generalized claims about the media as a whole?  But even looking at that one paper, just from the first few results on a google search of "new york times trump liar":

The President is Lying about Coronavirus

Is President Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar?

T r u m p ’ s   L i e s

For Trump, Lying Is a Super Power

No One Believes Trump  (Ok, the headline doesn't say the word "lies" or "Liar", but the URL includes "trump-suleimani-lies").

Lies? False Claims? When Trump’s Statements Aren’t True

And, although it's from the Washington Post (from September 2016):
Why The New York Times Decided It Is Now Okay To Call Donald Trump A Liar


But even to your point, I know you want the media to be like twitter rant, but the major outlets are actually professional news organizations that must maintain some semblance of decorum.


So now op-eds don't count? If that's the case, refer to my last point in the previous post, that they're actually maintain some decorum and professionalism. If, in a regular news story, they start name calling (that's what you're asking for), they lose that professionalism and credibility for the long term. Either way, you're getting hung up on whether a particular word, as opposed to synonym of that word, is being used in one type of article, in one newspaper, versus another type of article in the same newspaper.

Oh, and regarding Anderson Cooper not flat out calling Trump a liar? Umm, maybe watch him sometime? To save me the trouble of copying and pasting every link, just google "anderson cooper trump liar" and see all the results that come up.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-18, 13:53

Jake from State Farm wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:


Overall, I think the covid thing hit him hard.  Yes he was late to the game on that, but from about mid-March to mid-April, he at least feigned concern, feigned that he was listening to the experts, etc.  But I think when he realized that this wasn't just going to go away so easily and return to normal, he just said Fuck it, let's just move on, whatever the consequences.
I don't think he's ever given a rats ass about covid. There's been absolutely zero leadership from him on trying to minimize the effects since the gitgo, even though he's had numerous chances to at least try to set an example. I suppose in his feeble little mind he figured anything he could do would make him look weak. Heck, he's still planning rallies with his followers so that they can stand cheek to cheek to cheek and cheer him on and filing suit to make sure that they can.

Right, but there was about a month or so there where he pretended to give a rats ass. Obviously, he threw that facade out the window quite a while ago, especially after the whole lysol fiasco.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 14:02

MiamiSpartan wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

Maybe one paper shouldn't be used for generalized claims about the media as a whole?  But even looking at that one paper, just from the first few results on a google search of "new york times trump liar":

The President is Lying about Coronavirus

Is President Trump a Stealth Postmodernist or Just a Liar?

T r u m p ’ s   L i e s

For Trump, Lying Is a Super Power

No One Believes Trump  (Ok, the headline doesn't say the word "lies" or "Liar", but the URL includes "trump-suleimani-lies").

Lies? False Claims? When Trump’s Statements Aren’t True

And, although it's from the Washington Post (from September 2016):
Why The New York Times Decided It Is Now Okay To Call Donald Trump A Liar


But even to your point, I know you want the media to be like twitter rant, but the major outlets are actually professional news organizations that must maintain some semblance of decorum.


So now op-eds don't count? If that's the case, refer to my last point in the previous post, that they're actually maintain some decorum and professionalism. If, in a regular news story, they start name calling (that's what you're asking for), they lose that professionalism and credibility for the long term. Either way, you're getting hung up on whether a particular word, as opposed to synonym of that word, is being used in one type of article, in one newspaper, versus another type of article in the same newspaper.

Oh, and regarding Anderson Cooper not flat out calling Trump a liar? Umm, maybe watch him sometime? To save me the trouble of copying and pasting every link, just google "anderson cooper trump liar" and see all the results that come up.

I've watched him a lot. I just did your test and grabbed one link at random.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcJAn9Zo7Sk

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Watch the entire thing (it's only 3 minutes or so), yes he's referring to Trump lying but he won't call it lying or refer to his statements as a lie. You'll have to take my word for it I've watched his show a lot.

You got me on op-ed and I should have been clearer. I'm referring to the reporting.

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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 14:04

Also, I don't view it as name calling if done judiciously I view it as the most informative and accurate description of his lies. A lie is a lie.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2020-06-18, 14:06

Man, this is going to be the most contentious, ugly election season in our lifetimes. You have a sitting president with no moral fiber and a massive ego who will stop at nothing to get re-elected, and you have a base that will stop at nothing to get him re-elected who abhors the anyone who opposes him. And you have the other side which abhors the president. Throw in BLM and Covid 19 and this country is a powder keg right now.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-18, 14:11

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Man, this is going to be the most contentious, ugly election season in our lifetimes. You have a sitting president with no moral fiber and a massive ego who will stop at nothing to get re-elected, and you have a base that will stop at nothing to get him re-elected who abhors the anyone who opposes him. And you have the other side which abhors the president. Throw in BLM and Covid 19 and this country is a powder keg right now.
then there is the fact that the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator (who filed for bankruptcy more times than he dodged the draft, if you can believe that) presiding over the worst economy since The Great Depression.

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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-18, 14:26

steveschneider wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:


So now op-eds don't count?  If that's the case, refer to my last point in the previous post, that they're actually maintain some decorum and professionalism.  If, in a regular news story, they start name calling (that's what you're asking for), they lose that professionalism and credibility for the long term.  Either way, you're getting hung up on whether a particular word, as opposed to synonym of that word, is being used in one type of article, in one newspaper, versus another type of article in the same newspaper.

Oh, and regarding Anderson Cooper not flat out calling Trump a liar?  Umm, maybe watch him sometime?  To save me the trouble of copying and pasting every link, just google "anderson cooper trump liar" and see all the results that come up.  

I've watched him a lot. I just did your test and grabbed one link at random.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcJAn9Zo7Sk

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Watch the entire thing (it's only 3 minutes or so), yes he's referring to Trump lying but he won't call it lying or refer to his statements as a lie. You'll have to take my word for it I've watched his show a lot.

You got me on op-ed and I should have been clearer. I'm referring to the reporting.  


Perhaps google serves up different links to you.  That one didn't even show up on my first page.  Here are the first one that I get:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/24/donald-trump-sunlight-disinfectant-walk-back-lies-cooper-sot-vpx.cnn Directly says "What you just heard is the president lying".

I've heard him use the "L" word other times, but overall maybe not much.  But I think that's where you're getting caught up in his words.  I feel that Anderson Cooper will present the facts that show that he's lying (i.e., "here's what Trump said about this....now here's what actually happened".  He's a little more of a traditional reporter in that sense, but I guess if you need someone to say "liar" more regularly, as opposed to another description, then you still have Chris Cuomo, Don Lemon, Rachel Maddow, and others.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 14:49

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I've watched him a lot. I just did your test and grabbed one link at random.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcJAn9Zo7Sk

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Watch the entire thing (it's only 3 minutes or so), yes he's referring to Trump lying but he won't call it lying or refer to his statements as a lie. You'll have to take my word for it I've watched his show a lot.

You got me on op-ed and I should have been clearer. I'm referring to the reporting.  


Perhaps google serves up different links to you.  That one didn't even show up on my first page.  Here are the first one that I get:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/24/donald-trump-sunlight-disinfectant-walk-back-lies-cooper-sot-vpx.cnn Directly says "What you just heard is the president lying".

I've heard him use the "L" word other times, but overall maybe not much.  But I think that's where you're getting caught up in his words.  I feel that Anderson Cooper will present the facts that show that he's lying (i.e., "here's what Trump said about this....now here's what actually happened".  He's a little more of a traditional reporter in that sense, but I guess if you need someone to say "liar" more regularly, as opposed to another description, then you still have Chris Cuomo, Don Lemon, Rachel Maddow, and others.

Great link. I applaud Anderson for using it there. I did say judicious use of it and I can't think of a better example to use the word lie than right there. It's a spot on informative description of what the president was doing right there.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 14:50

Also, you'll have to take my word for it I typed in a search and plucked that video at random. I think it was 4 down from the top result.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-18, 15:41

steveschneider wrote:Also, you'll have to take my word for it I typed in a search and plucked that video at random. I think it was 4 down from the top result.

I do take your word for it. I wasn't being sarcastic that Google is serving you different links than me, as they filter search results based on other sites we've visited, other google searches we've done, etc.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-18, 17:39

This post falls under the "no one asked", so feel free to skip this if you don't give a shit. But I've felt that my posts have been more strongly anti-Trump lately, almost in lock-step with the majority of the board. So for whatever reason, perhaps just for myself, I want to clarify.

I don't like to be so one-sided, but over the past year, Trump has gotten worse with things that are important to me, starting with his removal (forced removal, directly or indirectly) of leading members of the intelligence community, to his behavior toward the former Ambassador to the Ukraine and other diplomats, to the whole Ukraine thing itself, to his disregard about Covid, and most recently his threats to use the military against US citizens and subsequent attacks on military men that spoke out about that. These aren't partisan Republican/Democrat things. He has misued, and sometimes outright attacked, the most non-partisan institutions that we have. Institutions that absolutely MUST be non-partisan, so that they can continue to do their jobs equally well, regardless of the shifts in power in Washington. Covid is something that couldn't be any more non-partisan, but he's forced it to be, which is absurd. JFC, to say to day that some people wear masks just to spite him. Really? What the actual fuck? And then, the most important amendment of all, the first, should always be non-partisan, but he's attacked the right to assemble, he calls for media to be what is effectively a state-run propaganda service (see his attacks on FoxNews and love affair with OAN), and he wishes to kill/imprison members of the free press (per Bolton's book).

I also don't mean to say that he's ONLY done those things in the past year, it's just the most glaring and the most public ones. I'm also not saying that those are my only problems with him, just my hot buttons.

I have often pointed out when I think certain criticisms of Trump were unfair, disingenuous, etc. I don't have a "team" in this game that I'm trying to support or defend. It's all gone well beyond that. I would welcome a genuine, rational, informed discussion with Pantry, or anyone lurking, about why they think I'm wrong about any of those beefs that I have with Trump.
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 2020-06-18, 17:52

MiamiSpartan wrote:This post falls under the "no one asked", so feel free to skip this if you don't give a shit. But I've felt that my posts have been more strongly anti-Trump lately, almost in lock-step with the majority of the board. So for whatever reason, perhaps just for myself, I want to clarify.

I don't like to be so one-sided, but over the past year, Trump has gotten worse with things that are important to me, starting with his removal (forced removal, directly or indirectly) of leading members of the intelligence community, to his behavior toward the former Ambassador to the Ukraine and other diplomats, to the whole Ukraine thing itself, to his disregard about Covid, and most recently his threats to use the military against US citizens and subsequent attacks on military men that spoke out about that. These aren't partisan Republican/Democrat things. He has misued, and sometimes outright attacked, the most non-partisan institutions that we have. Institutions that absolutely MUST be non-partisan, so that they can continue to do their jobs equally well, regardless of the shifts in power in Washington. Covid is something that couldn't be any more non-partisan, but he's forced it to be, which is absurd. JFC, to say to day that some people wear masks just to spite him. Really? What the actual fuck? And then, the most important amendment of all, the first, should always be non-partisan, but he's attacked the right to assemble, he calls for media to be what is effectively a state-run propaganda service (see his attacks on FoxNews and love affair with OAN), and he wishes to kill/imprison members of the free press (per Bolton's book).

I also don't mean to say that he's ONLY done those things in the past year, it's just the most glaring and the most public ones. I'm also not saying that those are my only problems with him, just my hot buttons.

I have often pointed out when I think certain criticisms of Trump were unfair, disingenuous, etc. I don't have a "team" in this game that I'm trying to support or defend. It's all gone well beyond that. I would welcome a genuine, rational, informed discussion with Pantry, or anyone lurking, about why they think I'm wrong about any of those beefs that I have with Trump.

I would like to add a few very disturbing things.
1. The firing of 5-6 IGs in 2020 alone. So much for draining the swamp, Trump wants no oversight.
2. Every step Barr takes at Trump's beckoning is designed to get his boss re-elected, pushing the boundaries of legal reasoning. The AG is supposed to be neutral, right?
3. The systemic dismantling of nearly ever reasonable environmental safety regulation enacted by the Obama administration. It's personal and it's reckless.

The revised trade act with Canada and Mexico? Maybe that's a good thing, I don't know. But maybe that's the only good thing this administration has accomplished in 3.5 years.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-18, 19:06

I don't really read stuff on an anonmyous message board but one thing is for sure.. Miami is not afraid to type.

You're a great Miami-American.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-18, 22:12

Floyd Robertson wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:This post falls under the "no one asked", so feel free to skip this if you don't give a shit. But I've felt that my posts have been more strongly anti-Trump lately, almost in lock-step with the majority of the board. So for whatever reason, perhaps just for myself, I want to clarify.

I don't like to be so one-sided, but over the past year, Trump has gotten worse with things that are important to me, starting with his removal (forced removal, directly or indirectly) of leading members of the intelligence community, to his behavior toward the former Ambassador to the Ukraine and other diplomats, to the whole Ukraine thing itself, to his disregard about Covid, and most recently his threats to use the military against US citizens and subsequent attacks on military men that spoke out about that. These aren't partisan Republican/Democrat things. He has misued, and sometimes outright attacked, the most non-partisan institutions that we have. Institutions that absolutely MUST be non-partisan, so that they can continue to do their jobs equally well, regardless of the shifts in power in Washington. Covid is something that couldn't be any more non-partisan, but he's forced it to be, which is absurd. JFC, to say to day that some people wear masks just to spite him. Really? What the actual fuck? And then, the most important amendment of all, the first, should always be non-partisan, but he's attacked the right to assemble, he calls for media to be what is effectively a state-run propaganda service (see his attacks on FoxNews and love affair with OAN), and he wishes to kill/imprison members of the free press (per Bolton's book).

I also don't mean to say that he's ONLY done those things in the past year, it's just the most glaring and the most public ones. I'm also not saying that those are my only problems with him, just my hot buttons.

I have often pointed out when I think certain criticisms of Trump were unfair, disingenuous, etc. I don't have a "team" in this game that I'm trying to support or defend. It's all gone well beyond that. I would welcome a genuine, rational, informed discussion with Pantry, or anyone lurking, about why they think I'm wrong about any of those beefs that I have with Trump.

I would like to add a few very disturbing things.
1. The firing of 5-6 IGs in 2020 alone. So much for draining the swamp, Trump wants no oversight.
2. Every step Barr takes at Trump's beckoning is designed to get his boss re-elected, pushing the boundaries of legal reasoning. The AG is supposed to be neutral, right?
3. The systemic dismantling of nearly ever reasonable environmental safety regulation enacted by the Obama administration. It's personal and it's reckless.

The revised trade act with Canada and Mexico? Maybe that's a good thing, I don't know. But maybe that's the only good thing this administration has accomplished in 3.5 years.


Definitely good calls. The IGs are another non-partisan thing that he's attacked. And the environment/climate change should not be a partisan issue.

I'd also like to add using a fucking Nazi symbol in an official campaign ad. Zero fucking defense for that. In a vacuum, maybe we can believe it was just a coincidental mistake. But combine that "coincidence" with the "coincidences" of setting his first rally on Juneteenth....in Tulsa, and setting his nomination acceptance on Jacksonville on the anniversary of Axe Handle Sunday. How can anyone buy that all of these are coincidences?
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-18, 22:20

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I don't really read stuff on an anonmyous message board but one thing is for sure.. Miami is not afraid to type.

You're a great Miami-American.

If you only knew how much I've edited down some of my long posts. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 502811600

This is why I almost never post on Twitter. Too restrictive.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2020-06-18, 22:52

How many of you guys are Conservatives/Former Conservatives that have either swapped teams or are just disgusted by this guy and/or the party's support of him? I know there are a few but I don't want to call them out.
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Post by MattyFresh on 2020-06-18, 22:59

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:How many of you guys are Conservatives/Former Conservatives that have either swapped teams or are just disgusted by this guy and/or the party's support of him? I know there are a few but I don't want to call them out.

Well, a little background, I wasn't really political at all or I just didn't care. I had voted for republicans and democrats but never looked too deep into it. My father was a fiscal conservative, my mother was and still is much more liberal. I didn't even follow the run-up to the 2016 election. I wasn't crying when Trump won and I remember telling my mom, she should just give Trump a chance, he has to rise to the moment but I think within a few weeks of his presidency I started to notice how much of a douche nozzle he was and I've come to realize that the things I value most seem to align with democrats. I don't know how it happened but apparently, I was a registered republican till 2017 and now I am a registered democrat.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 23:04

MiamiSpartan wrote:This post falls under the "no one asked", so feel free to skip this if you don't give a shit. But I've felt that my posts have been more strongly anti-Trump lately, almost in lock-step with the majority of the board. So for whatever reason, perhaps just for myself, I want to clarify.

I don't like to be so one-sided, but over the past year, Trump has gotten worse with things that are important to me, starting with his removal (forced removal, directly or indirectly) of leading members of the intelligence community, to his behavior toward the former Ambassador to the Ukraine and other diplomats, to the whole Ukraine thing itself, to his disregard about Covid, and most recently his threats to use the military against US citizens and subsequent attacks on military men that spoke out about that. These aren't partisan Republican/Democrat things. He has misued, and sometimes outright attacked, the most non-partisan institutions that we have. Institutions that absolutely MUST be non-partisan, so that they can continue to do their jobs equally well, regardless of the shifts in power in Washington. Covid is something that couldn't be any more non-partisan, but he's forced it to be, which is absurd. JFC, to say to day that some people wear masks just to spite him. Really? What the actual fuck? And then, the most important amendment of all, the first, should always be non-partisan, but he's attacked the right to assemble, he calls for media to be what is effectively a state-run propaganda service (see his attacks on FoxNews and love affair with OAN), and he wishes to kill/imprison members of the free press (per Bolton's book).

I also don't mean to say that he's ONLY done those things in the past year, it's just the most glaring and the most public ones. I'm also not saying that those are my only problems with him, just my hot buttons.

I have often pointed out when I think certain criticisms of Trump were unfair, disingenuous, etc. I don't have a "team" in this game that I'm trying to support or defend. It's all gone well beyond that. I would welcome a genuine, rational, informed discussion with Pantry, or anyone lurking, about why they think I'm wrong about any of those beefs that I have with Trump.

I'm an anxious dude, but I got to where you were at after day one with Shawn Spicer's press conference about the crowd size. I thought that was the most un-American assualt on the truth I've ever seen and as a guy that read 1984 I thought it was right up there with 2 + 2 = 5. The last four years have been a nightmare and I think every great patriot should do what they have to to defeat Trumpism.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-18, 23:24

Klobuchar thinks Biden should pick a woman of color. POC I follow on twitter still prefer Warren. I’m rooting for Warren.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2020-06-18, 23:30

MattyFresh wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:How many of you guys are Conservatives/Former Conservatives that have either swapped teams or are just disgusted by this guy and/or the party's support of him? I know there are a few but I don't want to call them out.

Well, a little background, I wasn't really political at all or I just didn't care. I had voted for republicans and democrats but never looked too deep into it. My father was a fiscal conservative, my mother was and still is much more liberal. I didn't even follow the run-up to the 2016 election. I wasn't crying when Trump won and I remember telling my mom, she should just give Trump a chance, he has to rise to the moment but I think within a few weeks of his presidency I started to notice how much of a douche nozzle he was and I've come to realize that the things I value most seem to align with democrats. I don't know how it happened but apparently, I was a registered republican till 2017 and now I am a registered democrat.

I'm mostly the same. I always did vote D as I was raised in a heavy Pro Labor household but I never cared much. I did start to feel pretty strongly against the Iraq War towards the end of W's tenure. I also told my wife and others we needed to give the guy a chance, and I'm 100% honest in stating that I believed that and gave it the ol college try.

Nothing normal about this guy or his politics. I would give a lot of money just to go back to a standard W or Ronnie or HW type of Presidency, where you had the country club fiscal conservatives against the labor types and there was less of this extremism. You know, with Antifa and all. And those silly colored people thinking they should have equal opportunities in the land that welcomes all, color Creed, race or religion.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-19, 05:59

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:I don't really read stuff on an anonmyous message board but one thing is for sure.. Miami is not afraid to type.

You're a great Miami-American.

If you only knew how much I've edited down some of my long posts. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 502811600

This is why I almost never post on Twitter. Too restrictive.
The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 502811600

Happy Friday, brah.
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