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The 2020 Presidential campaign.

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Post by Floyd Robertson on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 7:59

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:How many of you guys are Conservatives/Former Conservatives that have either swapped teams or are just disgusted by this guy and/or the party's support of him? I know there are a few but I don't want to call them out.

The only democrat I remember ever voting for was Blanchard. I was voting on the right because they were the only ones talking about balancing the budget, which I viewed as a runaway train. My shift toward the center/left has been the result not only of Trump and the Republican support of him, but by climate change, technology, middle-class economic stagnation and having grandkids. We're going to need revolutionary economic and social changes to make American democracy sustainable, and those changes aren't coming from the right and corporate America.
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Post by Jake from State Farm on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 9:09

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:

I would like to add a few very disturbing things.
1. The firing of 5-6 IGs in 2020 alone. So much for draining the swamp, Trump wants no oversight.
2. Every step Barr takes at Trump's beckoning is designed to get his boss re-elected, pushing the boundaries of legal reasoning. The AG is supposed to be neutral, right?
3. The systemic dismantling of nearly ever reasonable environmental safety regulation enacted by the Obama administration. It's personal and it's reckless.

The revised trade act with Canada and Mexico? Maybe that's a good thing, I don't know. But maybe that's the only good thing this administration has accomplished in 3.5 years.


Definitely good calls. The IGs are another non-partisan thing that he's attacked. And the environment/climate change should not be a partisan issue.

I'd also like to add using a fucking Nazi symbol in an official campaign ad. Zero fucking defense for that. In a vacuum, maybe we can believe it was just a coincidental mistake. But combine that "coincidence" with the "coincidences" of setting his first rally on Juneteenth....in Tulsa, and setting his nomination acceptance on Jacksonville on the anniversary of Axe Handle Sunday. How can anyone buy that all of these are coincidences?

It's like there's no one in charge of Trump's campaign. How hard would it be before they schedule a corona rally to check with the locals and see if there's anything of significance going on that day? Even it's just to acknowledge it to the locals.
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Post by Tim Wakefield on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 10:08

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:How many of you guys are Conservatives/Former Conservatives that have either swapped teams or are just disgusted by this guy and/or the party's support of him? I know there are a few but I don't want to call them out.

Howdy. I wasn't political at all but thought stuff like the national debt, taxes, budget, tough foreign policy were important so i thought the republicans were the better option. Oops
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 10:15

reminder that the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator knows the only way he can win in November is to suppress the vote. He is - and will continue to do so - actively interfering with the democratic process.

This is the reason he has given up pretending to care about the virus. He wants/needs Americans to get sick, die.. he wants/needs the virus to continue to spread.. he wants/needs and be unable/unwilling to vote in person in November.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said expanded mail-in voting could cost him re-election in November, according to a Politico interview published on Friday, as states continue to press for absentee balloting amid the novel coronavirus pandemic.

he's setting the stage to disenfranchise the electorate and laying the groundwork to take it to the courts if/when he loses in November.

Caution: Mainstream Media Link
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Post by steveschneider on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 11:16

Floyd Robertson wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:How many of you guys are Conservatives/Former Conservatives that have either swapped teams or are just disgusted by this guy and/or the party's support of him? I know there are a few but I don't want to call them out.

The only democrat I remember ever voting for was Blanchard. I was voting on the right because they were the only ones talking about balancing the budget, which I viewed as a runaway train. My shift toward the center/left has been the result not only of Trump and the Republican support of him, but by climate change, technology, middle-class economic stagnation and having grandkids. We're going to need revolutionary economic and social changes to make American democracy sustainable, and those changes aren't coming from the right and corporate America.

This is the thing, I actually feel like I could be wooed over to the other side. I actually really liked Mayor Bloomberg in NYC. I highly disagreed with his stop and frisk and as a Spartan i was pissed off about his stance on Plaxico. I also hated that he bent the rules to give himself a third term...But his fiscal policies I really liked and on a lot of issues like the environment, smoking ban and all that stuff I thought he was really pragmatic and made some seriously effective changes. I always wondered after seeing his leadership style why we couldn't have a fiscally conservative leader that was more common sense and practical about other issues?
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Post by Cameron on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 11:48

steveschneider wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:

The only democrat I remember ever voting for was Blanchard. I was voting on the right because they were the only ones talking about balancing the budget, which I viewed as a runaway train. My shift toward the center/left has been the result not only of Trump and the Republican support of him, but by climate change, technology, middle-class economic stagnation and having grandkids. We're going to need revolutionary economic and social changes to make American democracy sustainable, and those changes aren't coming from the right and corporate America.

This is the thing, I actually feel like I could be wooed over to the other side. I actually really liked Mayor Bloomberg in NYC. I highly disagreed with his stop and frisk and as a Spartan i was pissed off about his stance on Plaxico. I also hated that he bent the rules to give himself a third term...But his fiscal policies I really liked and on a lot of issues like the environment, smoking ban and all that stuff I thought he was really pragmatic and made some seriously effective changes. I always wondered after seeing his leadership style why we couldn't have a fiscally conservative leader that was more common sense and practical about other issues?

Bloomberg sucks. That's really all it would take to get you to vote R? Just another Bloomberg?
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Post by MiamiSpartan on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 13:47

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:How many of you guys are Conservatives/Former Conservatives that have either swapped teams or are just disgusted by this guy and/or the party's support of him? I know there are a few but I don't want to call them out.


I used to be more conservative, but have drifted to the center over time. In college, I'd say I was about a 7 out of 10 on a scale of 1 being hard core Democrat, 5 being completely neutral, and 10 being hard core Republican. Now I'm a 4-5, though it varies by issue. Most of the change was driven by my softening on social issues. Also, I had job back in the late 90s at a place that did a lot of work on political campaigns, and that really jaded me on the whole Republican vs Democrat thing. It's just such bullshit, like a fucking game to the people involved moreso than about some ideological reasons, or about the "betterment of the constituency". And that was before things got so much more tribal and my team vs your team.

But that shift happened with me long before Trump. My thoughts softened in general, while also becoming more cynical at the whole 2-party system, but at the same time, the Republican party was moving more conservative, with the neo-cons and tea party, that it bared little resemblance to the Reagan/Bush 1 era.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 14:54

steveschneider wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:

The only democrat I remember ever voting for was Blanchard. I was voting on the right because they were the only ones talking about balancing the budget, which I viewed as a runaway train. My shift toward the center/left has been the result not only of Trump and the Republican support of him, but by climate change, technology, middle-class economic stagnation and having grandkids. We're going to need revolutionary economic and social changes to make American democracy sustainable, and those changes aren't coming from the right and corporate America.

This is the thing, I actually feel like I could be wooed over to the other side. I actually really liked Mayor Bloomberg in NYC. I highly disagreed with his stop and frisk and as a Spartan i was pissed off about his stance on Plaxico. I also hated that he bent the rules to give himself a third term...But his fiscal policies I really liked and on a lot of issues like the environment, smoking ban and all that stuff I thought he was really pragmatic and made some seriously effective changes. I always wondered after seeing his leadership style why we couldn't have a fiscally conservative leader that was more common sense and practical about other issues?

Unfortunately, Ross Perot was about 30 years too early.

I get what you mean, though. One of the broader implications about Trump is that I fear that people will be distrusting of political outsiders. But that's not why Trump is a disaster. I think that the single most important quality in a president is for them to know what they do not know and be open to ideas. Everything else flows from that. Statesmanship, political maneuvering, diplomacy, etc., all become a lot easier if you have the right people advising you and preparing you for various meetings.


Last edited by MiamiSpartan on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 15:29; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 15:08

I'm actually a fairly conservative guy. Pro-life in every circumstance, quite conservative fiscally, while quite progressive from a social standpoint. I've voted for numerous R's over the years, mainly at the state and local level. Never voted for a republican candidate as president.

I support public education, I support the idea that access to affordable healthcare is a basic human right, I support the sanctity of life and basic human decency and respect. The modern Republican/conservative movement supports none of these things.


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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 16:51

I worked for the Republican Party for a few years. That was silly. I was young and stupid. Some people experimented with drugs in college, I experimented with ayn rand and realized I wasn’t a lunatic shortly thereafter
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 17:00

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I worked for the Republican Party for a few years. That was silly. I was young and stupid. Some people experimented with drugs in college, I experimented with ayn rand and realized I wasn’t a lunatic shortly thereafter
my wife did the state legislature thing for a handful of years, mainly with republicans (one office was non-partisan) - this was when political differences typically stopped at the door of the Capitol building, though.

I'm afraid the toothpaste is out of the tube with regard to that.
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Post by GRR Spartan on Fri 19 Jun 2020 - 22:59

Reagan fired all the IG’s shortly after he was sworn in , 1980.

The difference between Trump and all of his post WW2 GOP predecessors is I never felt Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush1 or Bush2 would readily relinquish being at the head of the adult table to China and promote Russia.

None of them ever kept their conversations between world leaders secret from the Senate Intelligence Committee, the directors of the FBI, CIA (or both).

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Post by steveschneider on Sat 20 Jun 2020 - 9:32

Klobuchar knee caps Elizabeth Warren on the way out the door? Also, a friend told me no way it could be Harris because she was a prosecutor...Are you shitting me? Being a prosecutor is a good job and shouldn’t be a disqualifier. I still hope it’s Elizabeth Warren or Harris.
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Post by kingstonlake on Sat 20 Jun 2020 - 9:44

I selfishly hope it’s Harris and the GOP is stupid enough to make her personal life an issue. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 14 1837840279
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Post by steveschneider on Sat 20 Jun 2020 - 9:46

kingstonlake wrote:I selfishly hope it’s Harris and the GOP is stupid enough to make her personal life an issue. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 14 1837840279

Sign me up! Works for me.
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Post by steveschneider on Sat 20 Jun 2020 - 10:01

Just saw Susan Rice on Real Time (sorry Travis) sounds good to me. Let’s get this veepstakes over with.
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Post by Tim Wakefield on Sat 20 Jun 2020 - 10:23

[tw]https://twitter.com/eorden/status/1274178463881146370?s=21 [/tw]So before anyone gets their spoon fed talking points .. what the hell is going on with Geoffrey Berman?

https://twitter.com/eorden/status/1274178463881146370?s=21

"NEW: Geoff Berman statement:

“I learned in a press release from the Attorney General tonight that I was ‘stepping down’ as United States Attorney. I have not resigned, and have no intention of resigning, my position""
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Post by steveschneider on Sat 20 Jun 2020 - 12:09

Tim Wakefield wrote:[tw]https://twitter.com/eorden/status/1274178463881146370?s=21 [/tw]So before anyone gets their spoon fed talking points .. what the hell is going on with Geoffrey Berman?

https://twitter.com/eorden/status/1274178463881146370?s=21

"NEW: Geoff Berman statement:

“I learned in a press release from the Attorney General tonight that I was ‘stepping down’ as United States Attorney. I have not resigned, and have no intention of resigning, my position""

Sounds like a great patriot that told trump and Barr to go fuck theirselves. The hero we’ve been waiting for.
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Post by steveschneider on Sat 20 Jun 2020 - 22:30

I’m predicting a Biden blowout. You heard it here first folks.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Sun 21 Jun 2020 - 1:53

I agree with you Steve. Probably not something you will hear me repeating often. Subject to change but that's how I'm feeling right now.

Of course that doesn't solve the problems we have in this country. It merely puts them on the back burner. But it would be a good step.

I'm telling yall this country is a powder keg right now. I'm really really worried about what's going to happen in the next 6 months.
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Post by steveschneider on Sun 21 Jun 2020 - 8:15

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I agree with you Steve. Probably not something you will hear me repeating often. Subject to change but that's how I'm feeling right now.

Of course that doesn't solve the problems we have in this country. It merely puts them on the back burner. But it would be a good step.

I'm telling yall this country is a powder keg right now. I'm really really worried about what's going to happen in the next 6 months.

Yeah, subject to change is possible. I saw a take that Trump is probably going to fire his campaign manager and will need to get Bannon and he got Miller back. Truth be told last night was a flop but the media was all there ready to eat it up. CNN devoted 3hrs of prime time a sparsely attended rally. Get Bannon back on the trail and those two are masters of spectacle. Trump is the Seinfeld those two are the Larry David and the Larry Charles. I agree with your powder keg take and factors into my worries he won’t leave. He’s going to have everyone freaked out that America is going to turn into Seattle or Minneapolis and that woke antifa is going to run loose if he loses. I think his supporters are afraid to see him go. Crazy fn times we live in.
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Post by StylesGShmooth on Sun 21 Jun 2020 - 17:36

I'm mostly liberal but have some convservative beliefs. Never can go Republican but I'm not a Democrat. The Dems are just the enemy of my enemy. I just can't get over the voter suppression. I'm not a one issue voter but the GOP works really really hard to make it really really hard for people that look like me to vote and I just can't get over that. There was a time I would've voted for Rand Paul and the first person I ever voted for was Ross Perot. This shit show now though, the Trump GOP is some off the rails shit. Anybody that stood by and cosigned this destruction of the country and attack on the Constitution is complicit in my book. I'm not sure it's the casual racism, the constant lies or the fact that he's borderline special needs that bothers me the most. I mean, World Leaders openly mock our president right now.

Also, Yang Gang 2024.
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Post by StylesGShmooth on Sun 21 Jun 2020 - 17:38

Also this administration is so inept they just got trolled in front of the entire nation by K-Pop fans and TikTok kids. We need to get the nuclear codes out of this gaggle of idiots hands ASAP.
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Post by Cameron on Sun 21 Jun 2020 - 22:27

StylesGShmooth wrote:I'm mostly liberal but have some convservative beliefs.  Never can go Republican but I'm not a Democrat.  The Dems are just the enemy of my enemy.  I just can't get over the voter suppression.  I'm not a one issue voter but the GOP works really really hard to make it really really hard for people that look like me to vote and I just can't get over that.  There was a time I would've voted for Rand Paul and the first person I ever voted for was Ross Perot.  This shit show now though, the Trump GOP is some off the rails shit.  Anybody that stood by and cosigned this destruction of the country and attack on the Constitution is complicit in my book.  I'm not sure it's the casual racism, the constant lies or the fact that he's borderline special needs that bothers me the most.  I mean, World Leaders openly mock our president right now.  

Also, Yang Gang 2024.
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Post by GRR Spartan on Sun 21 Jun 2020 - 23:11

Remember a long time ago when the GOP and self-labeled “conservatives” were apoplectic about a recent President leaving Air Force One or Marine One wearing a tie but carrying his suit’s jacket over his shoulder because it didn’t look Presidential?

Now we have this and nary a peep.

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Post by steveschneider on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 11:42

GRR Spartan wrote:Remember a long time ago when the GOP and self-labeled “conservatives” were apoplectic about a recent President leaving Air Force One or Marine One wearing a tie but carrying his suit’s jacket over his shoulder because it didn’t look Presidential?

Now we have this and nary a peep.

The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 14 29871200-8443677-image-a-63_1592717304702

If there's one thing we should all have learned between 2016 and now is that pointing out hypocrisy to the GOP gets nowhere.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 12:16

I don't watch the News on TV but here's a good article summing up Bolton's interview last night on ABC News and what working with Donny is like.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bolton-hopes-trump-term-president-warns-country-imperiled/story?id=71320449&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_heads_hero_live_hero_hed
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Post by Rocinante on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 13:49

Fuck that motherfucker.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 15:00

So it sounds like Trump is effectively conceding defeat. He tweeted out that 2020 will be the most RIGGED (his caps) election in our history (due to Mail In voting, which of course, has been factually proven to have less fraud, and which historically favors Republicans more than Democrats).

So he wouldn't call it rigged if he wins, so logically that means he's saying that he knows that he's going to lose.

Of course, logically, if something in a book is all lies, then it can't be "highly classified information", so I don't mean to use logic when it comes to this guy's thought process, but he clearly knows he's in deep shit come November.

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Post by Watch Out Pylon! on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 15:02

MiamiSpartan wrote:So it sounds like Trump is effectively conceding defeat. He tweeted out that 2020 will be the most RIGGED (his caps) election in our history (due to Mail In voting, which of course, has been factually proven to have less fraud, and which historically favors Republicans more than Democrats).

So he wouldn't call it rigged if he wins, so logically that means he's saying that he knows that he's going to lose.

Of course, logically, if something in a book is all lies, then it can't be "highly classified information", so I don't mean to use logic when it comes to this guy's thought process, but he clearly knows he's in deep shit come November.


He did the same shit in 2016 and still got elected. Let's wait until we get there before thinking this idiot's reign of terror is in a death spiral.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 16:19

MiamiSpartan wrote:So it sounds like Trump is effectively conceding defeat.  He tweeted out that 2020 will be the most RIGGED (his caps) election in our history (due to Mail In voting, which of course, has been factually proven to have less fraud, and which historically favors Republicans more than Democrats).

So he wouldn't call it rigged if he wins, so logically that means he's saying that he knows that he's going to lose.

Of course, logically, if something in a book is all lies, then it can't be "highly classified information", so I don't mean to use logic when it comes to this guy's thought process, but he clearly knows he's in deep shit come November.  

he's setting the groundwork for a court battle.

I still maintain there is a good chance that he, being a good christian, goes on to meet his heavenly father before November 3rd. He's clearly unwell and getting moreso every day.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 17:00

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:So it sounds like Trump is effectively conceding defeat.  He tweeted out that 2020 will be the most RIGGED (his caps) election in our history (due to Mail In voting, which of course, has been factually proven to have less fraud, and which historically favors Republicans more than Democrats).

So he wouldn't call it rigged if he wins, so logically that means he's saying that he knows that he's going to lose.

Of course, logically, if something in a book is all lies, then it can't be "highly classified information", so I don't mean to use logic when it comes to this guy's thought process, but he clearly knows he's in deep shit come November.  

he's setting the groundwork for a court battle.

I still maintain there is a good chance that he, being a good christian, goes on to meet his heavenly father before November 3rd. He's clearly unwell and getting moreso every day.


The Supreme Court should, if they haven't already, go ahead and block off mid-November to mid-December right now, because they're going to be needed, whatever happens.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 17:05

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
he's setting the groundwork for a court battle.

I still maintain there is a good chance that he, being a good christian, goes on to meet his heavenly father before November 3rd. He's clearly unwell and getting moreso every day.


The Supreme Court should, if they haven't already, go ahead and block off mid-November to mid-December right now, because they're going to be needed, whatever happens.
yep.. and the National Guard.. and the Center for Missing and Exploited Children (he might try to take some girls with him)... maybe a few deep-fried Snickers bars for his nightly trip to the bunker.

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Post by MiamiSpartan on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 17:13

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:So it sounds like Trump is effectively conceding defeat. He tweeted out that 2020 will be the most RIGGED (his caps) election in our history (due to Mail In voting, which of course, has been factually proven to have less fraud, and which historically favors Republicans more than Democrats).

So he wouldn't call it rigged if he wins, so logically that means he's saying that he knows that he's going to lose.

Of course, logically, if something in a book is all lies, then it can't be "highly classified information", so I don't mean to use logic when it comes to this guy's thought process, but he clearly knows he's in deep shit come November.


He did the same shit in 2016 and still got elected. Let's wait until we get there before thinking this idiot's reign of terror is in a death spiral.


To this extent, this early? At this point in 2016, I thought he was just saying that the Dem primary was rigged against Bernie.

Saying that he knows it's over was a bit tongue in cheek, but he knows he's in trouble. Virtually every day he's looking more and more desperate, as everything he tries has been back-firing. Tried to score points with the military by saying that they'll quell the protestors, and he gets blasted by military leaders. Tried to score points with Christians by having his picture taken with "a bible" in front of a church, and he gets blasted by religious leaders. Tried to score points with his base by holding the most in demand, highest RSVP'd rally ever "by 10x", and next to no one shows up with the outdoor portion having to be cancelled because no one was there.
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Post by kingstonlake on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 17:14

Hopefully we see a similar walk on Jan 20th

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Post by Dendrobates on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 21:57

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:How many of you guys are Conservatives/Former Conservatives that have either swapped teams or are just disgusted by this guy and/or the party's support of him? I know there are a few but I don't want to call them out.

I grew up in a very conservative family in Jackson. That alone should say enough.  My family also wasn't very political, and whenever I had political questions growing up, no one could answer them. They didn't know the answers either. So I stopped questioning things. Being away from Jackson, going to college, living on my own, etc got me away to think for myself. And finally get a better understanding to some politics and questions.  I figured I was more left in my thinking, but I could see why someone would benefit from voting right (especially family that work in oil). But I always told myself even while I was young,  labels did not matter, and no one is a perfect candidate. While I still somewhat think that, after Trump shit, I don't see how I could ever vote on any Republican side. I never wanted to take "sides". But the last several years have made it very clear on one side caring for others, and other side not giving a shit except for themselves. The right has been complicit,  and very few opposed and spoke up. That says so much, and has pushed me further left than I ever thought.
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Post by Dendrobates on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 22:00

Side note ...I really really wanted Elizabeth Warren. One of the few candidates I could really get behind.
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Post by steveschneider on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 22:08

Dendrobates wrote:Side note ...I really really wanted Elizabeth Warren. One of the few candidates I could really get behind.

Still my pick for vp and I’m holding out hope it happens.
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Post by steveschneider on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 22:18

The blm protests at the Talladega speedway by nascar drivers and the blm protest at Salt Lake City has me believing there’s a mass cultural movement in this country working towards change and Trump/Maga is ill equipped to lead it, understand it, stop it or do anything about it. The times they are changing and whatever Trumped tapped into to win in 2016 it’s over and gone. His act is tired and old, he’s out of ideas and everyone is ready to move on in a new direction.
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Post by Rocinante on Mon 22 Jun 2020 - 23:59

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