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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 12/05/20, 06:36 am

so when will Barr announce an investigation into President Obama?

before or after The Caravan arrives to kill us all?
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 12/05/20, 06:39 am

Silly attempt to smear Biden by association. There will never be any charges, of course. Hopefully nobody outside of Trump's base believes it.

The problem is the the Attorney General of the United States is supposed to be apolitical, not trying the help the president in his reelection bid.
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Post by steveschneider on 12/05/20, 08:56 am

https://twitter.com/acosta/status/1259953725189259266?s=21

Yeah, Trump we know what you think the crime is.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 12/05/20, 08:56 am

Floyd Robertson wrote:Silly attempt to smear Biden by association. There will never be any charges, of course. Hopefully nobody outside of Trump's base believes it.

The problem is the the Attorney General of the United States is supposed to be apolitical, not trying the help the president in his reelection bid.
well, of course there's nothing to it.. just like all of the other things the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator promotes in an attempt to distract a stupid American public away from his grotesque immorality, tragic incompetence and international crimes.

Trump has been more direct, accusing Obama of the “biggest political crime in American history.”

However, he could not provide any details of the alleged crime, saying only that it’s “very obvious to everybody.”

Caution: Mainstream Media Link
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Post by kingstonlake on 12/05/20, 08:57 am

McConnell said that brown boy Obama should have kept his mouth shut.
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Post by steveschneider on 12/05/20, 09:08 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:Silly attempt to smear Biden by association. There will never be any charges, of course. Hopefully nobody outside of Trump's base believes it.

The problem is the the Attorney General of the United States is supposed to be apolitical, not trying the help the president in his reelection bid.
well, of course there's nothing to it.. just like all of the other things the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator promotes in an attempt to distract a stupid American public away from his grotesque immorality, tragic incompetence and international crimes.

Trump has been more direct, accusing Obama of the “biggest political crime in American history.”

However, he could not provide any details of the alleged crime, saying only that it’s “very obvious to everybody.”

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

I'm going to guess the crime he's accusing him of is being the first black president?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 12/05/20, 09:41 am

kingstonlake wrote:McConnell said that brown boy Obama should have kept his mouth shut.
bragging about raping women, fine. Mocking disabled people.. he's cool with that... encouraging a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival in exchange of financial support? Sure, why not..

McConnell draws the line at being critical of someone who has presided over the death of 80,000+ Americans and the worst economy since The Great Depression.
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 12/05/20, 10:17 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:McConnell said that brown boy Obama should have kept his mouth shut.
bragging about raping women, fine. Mocking disabled people.. he's cool with that... encouraging a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival in exchange of financial support? Sure, why not..

McConnell draws the line at being critical of someone who has presided over the death of 80,000+ Americans and the worst economy since The Great Depression.

I don't know what the KY senate race polling shows but it sure would be awesome if McGrath managed to put out a win there and send McConnell packing.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 12/05/20, 10:24 am

Floyd Robertson wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
bragging about raping women, fine. Mocking disabled people.. he's cool with that... encouraging a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival in exchange of financial support? Sure, why not..

McConnell draws the line at being critical of someone who has presided over the death of 80,000+ Americans and the worst economy since The Great Depression.

I don't know what the KY senate race polling shows but it sure would be awesome if McGrath managed to put out a win there and send McConnell packing.
that would be pretty amazing, though I suspect it's an uphill climb for McGrath. She seems like a great candidate - someone who loves America, the very country McConnell has disgust for - but she'll have to overcome the media, a misinformation campaign and Russian interference.

we'll see.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 12/05/20, 02:16 pm

besides being black, successful, admired, free of scandal and the most popular president in my lifetime.. what did President Obama do that constitutes the "biggest political crime in American history"?

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Post by Turtleneck on 12/05/20, 03:41 pm

So I guess that unitary executive stuff is only good for white Republican men. Because if it applied to all presidents, by Barr's own theory of the presidential powers, Obama did nothing wrong.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 12/05/20, 04:30 pm

Turtleneck wrote:So I guess that unitary executive stuff is only good for white Republican men. Because if it applied to all presidents, by Barr's own theory of the presidential powers, Obama did nothing wrong.
that's kinda what I was thinking..

Barr and the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator have both said over and over again that the law doesn't apply to the president.
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Post by steveschneider on 14/05/20, 02:34 pm

Bingo

[tw]1260951361300189185?s=21[/tw]
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Post by Cameron on 14/05/20, 02:51 pm

They've covered this a bit on The Rising recently. I generally agree with their takes on that show, but I'm not there on this one. I don't feel any sympathy for Flynn at all.

From what I've read/watched (and, admittedly, I haven't paid this a ton of attention), it seems like Flynn agreed to cooperate and admit stuff because he thought he would avoid jail by doing so. My understanding is that as soon as the judge left open the possibility that he could still do time, he fired his attorneys and tried to withdraw his guilty plea. It seems abundantly clear that he lied to someone at some point while under oath.

I have seen it mentioned that Flynn was "set up" by the FBI. I don't know all the details, but whether he was or was not set up, he still was communicating with foreign governments before anyone in the Trump administration had been sworn in, and he lied about doing so.

I'm far from the world's biggest Obama fan, but even if he was working the levers behind the scenes and putting his finger on the scale a bit, and even if Flynn was/is an incompetent patsy, I don't have an issue with it. If you wanna sit at the big boy table and swim in shark infested waters, you gotta watch your ass better than Flynn did.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 14/05/20, 02:53 pm

Cameron wrote:They've covered this a bit on The Rising recently. I generally agree with their takes on that show, but I'm not there on this one. I don't feel any sympathy for Flynn at all.

From what I've read/watched (and, admittedly, I haven't paid this a ton of attention), it seems like Flynn agreed to cooperate and admit stuff because he thought he would avoid jail by doing so. My understanding is that as soon as the judge left open the possibility that he could still do time, he fired his attorneys and tried to withdraw his guilty plea. It seems abundantly clear that he lied to someone at some point while under oath.

I have seen it mentioned that Flynn was "set up" by the FBI. I don't know all the details, but whether he was or was not set up, he still was communicating with foreign governments before anyone in the Trump administration had been sworn in, and he lied about doing so.

I'm far from the world's biggest Obama fan, but even if he was working the levers behind the scenes and putting his finger on the scale a bit, and even if Flynn was/is an incompetent patsy, I don't have an issue with it. If you wanna sit at the big boy table and swim in shark infested waters, you gotta watch your ass better than Flynn did.
yeah, I don't really have sympathy for people who plead guilty to lying to the FBI.

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Post by Rocinante on 15/05/20, 10:04 pm

You know the crimes. Everybody knows the crimes.
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Post by MattyFresh on 15/05/20, 10:21 pm

Rocinante wrote:You know the crimes. Everybody knows the crimes.

Just need to read about it in the paper, not that paper, the other paper
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Post by msugolfguy on 16/05/20, 09:18 am

Cameron wrote:They've covered this a bit on The Rising recently. I generally agree with their takes on that show, but I'm not there on this one. I don't feel any sympathy for Flynn at all.

From what I've read/watched (and, admittedly, I haven't paid this a ton of attention), it seems like Flynn agreed to cooperate and admit stuff because he thought he would avoid jail by doing so. My understanding is that as soon as the judge left open the possibility that he could still do time, he fired his attorneys and tried to withdraw his guilty plea. It seems abundantly clear that he lied to someone at some point while under oath.

I have seen it mentioned that Flynn was "set up" by the FBI. I don't know all the details, but whether he was or was not set up, he still was communicating with foreign governments before anyone in the Trump administration had been sworn in, and he lied about doing so.

I'm far from the world's biggest Obama fan, but even if he was working the levers behind the scenes and putting his finger on the scale a bit, and even if Flynn was/is an incompetent patsy, I don't have an issue with it. If you wanna sit at the big boy table and swim in shark infested waters, you gotta watch your ass better than Flynn did.

Wasn't the premise of his arrest that the previous administration was spying on the Russia and Flynn just happened to keep showing up and talking to these shady people? He wasn't targeting directly but merely just caught, at least that's what I understand.
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Post by steveschneider on 16/05/20, 09:40 am

I don’t even know what Obamagate is. Seems like more Birthirism? Or if people believe Qanon you can feed them any old line of horse shit and they’ll believe it?
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 16/05/20, 09:52 am

steveschneider wrote:I don’t even know what Obamagate is. Seems like more Birthirism? Or if people believe Qanon you can feed them any old line of horse shit and they’ll believe it?

Doesn't matter what it is or that it means nothing. Just the word alone mobilizes the magas.
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Post by Cameron on 16/05/20, 10:06 am

msugolfguy wrote:
Cameron wrote:They've covered this a bit on The Rising recently. I generally agree with their takes on that show, but I'm not there on this one. I don't feel any sympathy for Flynn at all.

From what I've read/watched (and, admittedly, I haven't paid this a ton of attention), it seems like Flynn agreed to cooperate and admit stuff because he thought he would avoid jail by doing so. My understanding is that as soon as the judge left open the possibility that he could still do time, he fired his attorneys and tried to withdraw his guilty plea. It seems abundantly clear that he lied to someone at some point while under oath.

I have seen it mentioned that Flynn was "set up" by the FBI. I don't know all the details, but whether he was or was not set up, he still was communicating with foreign governments before anyone in the Trump administration had been sworn in, and he lied about doing so.

I'm far from the world's biggest Obama fan, but even if he was working the levers behind the scenes and putting his finger on the scale a bit, and even if Flynn was/is an incompetent patsy, I don't have an issue with it. If you wanna sit at the big boy table and swim in shark infested waters, you gotta watch your ass better than Flynn did.

Wasn't the premise of his arrest that the previous administration was spying on the Russia and Flynn just happened to keep showing up and talking to these shady people? He wasn't targeting directly but merely just caught, at least that's what I understand.

Yeah, that's the "unmasking" aspect. If I understand correctly, we (the US) were surveilling some foreign diplomats, and happened to notice an American citizen pop up frequently, which was Flynn. Obama and various figures in his administration had legal authority to know Flynn's identity, but then someone leaked it to WaPo.

I believe the leak to WaPo is the only part that is or might be actually illegal, and of course no one really thinks Obama personally leaked it. Frankly, "illegal" activity that results in the US people having more information about what their government is really doing is not the type of illegal government activity that concerns me.
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Post by Rocinante on 16/05/20, 10:07 am

msugolfguy wrote:
Cameron wrote:They've covered this a bit on The Rising recently. I generally agree with their takes on that show, but I'm not there on this one. I don't feel any sympathy for Flynn at all.

From what I've read/watched (and, admittedly, I haven't paid this a ton of attention), it seems like Flynn agreed to cooperate and admit stuff because he thought he would avoid jail by doing so. My understanding is that as soon as the judge left open the possibility that he could still do time, he fired his attorneys and tried to withdraw his guilty plea. It seems abundantly clear that he lied to someone at some point while under oath.

I have seen it mentioned that Flynn was "set up" by the FBI. I don't know all the details, but whether he was or was not set up, he still was communicating with foreign governments before anyone in the Trump administration had been sworn in, and he lied about doing so.

I'm far from the world's biggest Obama fan, but even if he was working the levers behind the scenes and putting his finger on the scale a bit, and even if Flynn was/is an incompetent patsy, I don't have an issue with it. If you wanna sit at the big boy table and swim in shark infested waters, you gotta watch your ass better than Flynn did.

Wasn't the premise of his arrest that the previous administration was spying on the Russia and Flynn just happened to keep showing up and talking to these shady people? He wasn't targeting directly but merely just caught, at least that's what I understand.

Foreign diplomats are almost all spies to varying degrees. They are monitored all the time.

Yes. Flynn, former head of the defense intelligence agency under the Obama administration, one of the few guys who should know damn well that this is true, kept showing up in monitored calls as masked “American Official” and did shady things often enough that he was unmasked multiple times for dumb ass shit that has nothing to do with the Russia investigation. When the Trump admin points out that he was unmasked multiple times as if it was a crime, they’re conveniently leaving out that these unmaskings are requested y officials who see intel reports and say “who is this anonymous American official saying all this hinky shit on this call, I think we need to know” and requesting the unmasking. THEY DIDN’T KNOW IT WAS FLYNN BEFORE HE WAS UNMASKED. So how could it have been some plot against him. He was fired for incompetence and probably partly because he kept showing up on those calls.

This is a distraction from Trumps disastrous mishandling of the corona virus. Don’t buy it.
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Post by Cameron on 16/05/20, 10:12 am

This NPR article lays it out pretty clearly.
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Post by Rocinante on 16/05/20, 10:45 am

That article seems to me to give it way too much legitimacy.
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Post by steveschneider on 16/05/20, 10:49 am

Rocinante wrote:That article seems to me to give it way too much legitimacy.

Yeah, did Trump lay out what that article is reporting or is that article just an attempt to make sense of his gibberish? Also, Russians were interfering I’m glad Obama took action.
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Post by Cameron on 16/05/20, 11:03 am

Rocinante wrote:That article seems to me to give it way too much legitimacy.

How so? I thought it was a pretty matter-of-fact piece.
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Post by steveschneider on 16/05/20, 11:40 am

I feel like Johnny Cochran laid out the blue print for this nightmare. OJ murders his wife, Johnny Cochran comes up with enough buzz words to create doubt and do the old reversal where the cops arresting the murderer are suddenly the bad guys. That trial had all the necessary ingredients for what we see now. Everyone out to stop the bad guy has an agenda, personal bias, and then come up with some repeatable slogans that the public/press/ falls in love with. Those also become fodder for late night monologues and SNL skits. At the end of the day you lose faith in the system and the process.
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Post by Rocinante on 16/05/20, 12:48 pm

Cameron wrote:
Rocinante wrote:That article seems to me to give it way too much legitimacy.

How so? I thought it was a pretty matter-of-fact piece.


“ Then, since and today, Trump and Republicans have argued that was an abuse of power and a breach of the law, one that, in their view, needlessly cost Flynn his reputation, his liberty and a fortune in legal fees.”

This paragraph makes it sound like there’s some sort of consistency in the Trump message. As if it’s not just grasping at anything to see if something will work to distract and blame, which is his whole actual strategy.

The leak to the post was regarding a fired former administration official, telling the Russian ambassador not to worry about or retaliate for sanctions that had been put in place for their meddling in the election because the incoming president that they had meddled to get elected would take care of it. Could it have been handled another way? Probably. They could have questioned him without the leak. Maybe they were going to and the leaker just stepped on the process. Who knows.

But once the leak was out there, Pence goes on the news and says Flynn didn’t discuss the sanctions. When Trump and Pence find out that’s not true. THEY FIRED HIM. I still think Pence knew damn well what Flynn talked to the Russians about. But that’s beside the point.

You don’t get to rewrite history and pretend like you’ve been saying this was a set up or travesty of justice all along. Trump said he fired Flynn because he lied to Pence. He was fine with the whole thing until Flynn cooperates with the Mueller investigation and Barr see his sights on discrediting the very existence of an investigation into Trump.

Press needs to quit making chicken salad out of chicken shit with Trump’s chaotic non-strategic buffoonery. They take nonsensical idiocy and make it legitimate for him. They need to make him explain it. Make him come with the strategy. Don’t build it for him.

Does that make sense at all to you?
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Post by steveschneider on 16/05/20, 01:01 pm

Rocinante wrote:
Cameron wrote:

How so? I thought it was a pretty matter-of-fact piece.


“ Then, since and today, Trump and Republicans have argued that was an abuse of power and a breach of the law, one that, in their view, needlessly cost Flynn his reputation, his liberty and a fortune in legal fees.”

This paragraph makes it sound like there’s some sort of consistency in the Trump message. As if it’s not just grasping at anything to see if something will work to distract and blame, which is his whole actual strategy.

The leak to the post was regarding a fired former administration official, telling the Russian ambassador not to worry about or retaliate for sanctions that had been put in place for their meddling in the election because the incoming president that they had meddled to get elected would take care of it. Could it have been handled another way? Probably. They could have questioned him without the leak. Maybe they were going to and the leaker just stepped on the process. Who knows.

But once the leak was out there, Pence goes on the news and says Flynn didn’t discuss the sanctions. When Trump and Pence find out that’s not true. THEY FIRED HIM. I still think Pence knew damn well what Flynn talked to the Russians about. But that’s beside the point.

You don’t get to rewrite history and pretend like you’ve been saying this was a set up or travesty of justice all along. Trump said he fired Flynn because he lied to Pence. He was fine with the whole thing until Flynn cooperates with the Mueller investigation and Barr see his sights on discrediting the very existence of an investigation into Trump.

Press needs to quit making chicken salad out of chicken shit with Trump’s chaotic non-strategic buffoonery. They take nonsensical idiocy and make it legitimate for him. They need to make him explain it. Make him come with the strategy. Don’t build it for him.

Does that make sense at all to you?

OBAMAGATE! 1486952199 OBAMAGATE! 1486952199 OBAMAGATE! 1486952199 OBAMAGATE! 1486952199 OBAMAGATE! 1486952199 OBAMAGATE! 1486952199

Best critique of the press I've seen in here.
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Post by Cameron on 16/05/20, 02:29 pm

Rocinante wrote:
Cameron wrote:

How so? I thought it was a pretty matter-of-fact piece.


“ Then, since and today, Trump and Republicans have argued that was an abuse of power and a breach of the law, one that, in their view, needlessly cost Flynn his reputation, his liberty and a fortune in legal fees.”

This paragraph makes it sound like there’s some sort of consistency in the Trump message.  As if it’s not just grasping at anything to see if something will work to distract and blame, which is his whole actual strategy.

The leak to the post was regarding a fired former administration official, telling the Russian ambassador not to worry about or retaliate for sanctions that had been put in place for their meddling in the election because the incoming president that they had meddled to get elected would take care of it. Could it have been handled another way?  Probably.  They could have questioned him without the leak. Maybe they were going to and the leaker just stepped on the process.  Who knows.  

But once the leak was out there, Pence goes on the news and says Flynn didn’t discuss the sanctions.  When Trump and Pence find out that’s not true. THEY FIRED HIM.  I still think Pence knew damn well what Flynn talked to the Russians about.  But that’s beside the point.

You don’t get to rewrite history and pretend like you’ve been saying this was a set up or travesty of justice all along.  Trump said he fired Flynn because he lied to Pence.  He was fine with the whole thing until Flynn cooperates with the Mueller investigation and  Barr see his sights on discrediting the very existence of an investigation into Trump.  

Press needs to quit making chicken salad out of chicken shit with Trump’s chaotic non-strategic buffoonery. They take nonsensical idiocy and make it legitimate for him.  They need to make him explain it.  Make him come with the strategy.  Don’t build it for him.  

Does that make sense at all to you?

I see your point. The article definitely stated Trump's "case" more clearly and cogently than Trump has or could, I suppose that's a big part of the reason why I found it to be a helpful overview of the situation.

I agree that the press sucks, in so many ways.
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Post by NigelUno on 16/05/20, 09:43 pm

[tw]1260290839114383361[/tw]
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Post by Rocinante on 16/05/20, 11:15 pm

Ugh I respect the attempt but I could never listed to him long enough to get that so perfectly.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 16/05/20, 11:29 pm

3 TVs in the house tuned into the commencement thing tonight. I would have many beers with Mom Jeans. He's cool as fuck. So intelligent, great orator, touches on key points effortlessly. Miss President Obama.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 17/05/20, 07:04 am

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:3 TVs in the house tuned into the commencement thing tonight. I would have many beers with Mom Jeans. He's cool as fuck. So intelligent, great orator, touches on key points effortlessly. Miss President Obama.
he's just an amazing person all the way around.

The irony of it is that if we never had President Obama, we never would've had the racist bigoted christian sexual predator.

Obama's successes, his class, his family, his personification of the America dream was too much for racist bigots to handle. They punished America on Election Day 2016 because of it.
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Post by kingstonlake on 17/05/20, 08:37 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:3 TVs in the house tuned into the commencement thing tonight. I would have many beers with Mom Jeans. He's cool as fuck. So intelligent, great orator, touches on key points effortlessly. Miss President Obama.
he's just an amazing person all the way around.

The irony of it is that if we never had President Obama, we never would've had the racist bigoted christian sexual predator.

Obama's successes, his class, his family, his personification of the America dream was too much for racist bigots to handle. They punished America on Election Day 2016 because of it.

Yup. Said that years ago. Spot on.
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Post by steveschneider on 17/05/20, 08:43 am

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Post by Rocinante on 17/05/20, 01:37 pm

Maybe legit media needs to keep a running headline “Why we’re not covering X” with like a one sentence explanation of bullshit stories they are not going to lend legitimacy to without actual evidence. I don’t know man. It sucks that the “manufactured nihilism” the author refers to works so well at suppressing the vote.

“Obamagate is another example of this systemic failure. Here we have — and I can’t say this enough — a complete non-scandal. There’s no “there” there. It’s pure misinformation. But we’re still talking about it. And I’m writing this piece about it. This is a massive problem. Even though I’m trying to point up a flaw in our system, I’m still somehow participating in the mess I’m hoping to clean up. This is the paradox we’re all up against.“

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2020/5/16/21258788/obamagate-trump-flynn-bannon-flood-the-zone
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 17/05/20, 04:33 pm

Rocinante wrote:Maybe legit media needs to keep a running headline “Why we’re not covering X” with like a one sentence explanation of bullshit stories they are not going to lend legitimacy to without actual evidence.  I don’t know man.  It sucks that the “manufactured nihilism” the author refers to works so well at suppressing the vote.  

“Obamagate is another example of this systemic failure. Here we have — and I can’t say this enough — a complete non-scandal. There’s no “there” there. It’s pure misinformation. But we’re still talking about it. And I’m writing this piece about it. This is a massive problem. Even though I’m trying to point up a flaw in our system, I’m still somehow participating in the mess I’m hoping to clean up. This is the paradox we’re all up against.“

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2020/5/16/21258788/obamagate-trump-flynn-bannon-flood-the-zone
Yep - the mainstream media, along with the collective stupidity of America, is how we got here.

Each fuels the other.
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Post by GRR Spartan on 17/05/20, 06:53 pm

Obamagate is so big Trump can’t explain it so he tells WaPo reporters to read about it in other newspapers.
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