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Case against LAKS dismissed

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Case against LAKS dismissed Empty Case against LAKS dismissed

Post by duffy munn 2020-05-13, 12:27

No link I just heard it on the radio. The criminal charges against Simon have been dropped. I say good. While she certainly handled the entire Nassar scandal poorly, I don't think she did anything malicious or criminal.
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Post by tGreenWay 2020-05-13, 12:34

As it should’ve been. Not one person testified they remembered telling LAKS about Nassar.
Twenty-five page opinion. AG will probably appeal.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2020-05-13, 12:37

not a good look for LAKS over the years, did a lot of things wrong, turned a blind eye to a lot of suffering, etc. but I'm guessing evidence didn't meet the burden of proof.
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Post by Floyd Robertson 2020-05-13, 12:37

tGreenWay wrote:As it should’ve been. Not one person testified they remembered telling LAKS about Nassar.
Twenty-five page opinion. AG will probably appeal.

I'm no legal bagel but doesn't an AG appeal fall under double jeopardy?
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Post by MiamiSpartan 2020-05-13, 12:46

I wonder if they will have the decency to clear her name with the same publicity with which they have besmirched it.
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Post by tGreenWay 2020-05-13, 12:49

Floyd Robertson wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:As it should’ve been. Not one person testified they remembered telling LAKS about Nassar.
Twenty-five page opinion. AG will probably appeal.

I'm no legal bagel but doesn't an AG appeal fall under double jeopardy?


No, because LAKS never went to trial. Double Jeopardy only applies once the trial gets underway.
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Case against LAKS dismissed Empty Re: Case against LAKS dismissed

Post by tGreenWay 2020-05-13, 12:49

MiamiSpartan wrote:I wonder if they will have the decency to clear her name with the same publicity with which they have besmirched it.


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Post by Robert J Sakimano 2020-05-13, 12:52

tGreenWay wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:

I'm no legal bagel but doesn't an AG appeal fall under double jeopardy?


No, because LAKS never went to trial. Double Jeopardy only applies once the trial gets underway.
and then Final Jeopardy is where they play that cute little jingle as contestants write their answer.
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Post by DWags 2020-05-13, 12:52

I’m old enough to remember Ford pardoning Nixon for “crimes that MAY have been committed “ my house was an anti-Nixon house but I think we all understood that a trial just drags things out longer as the dead horse is pretty much dead as it will be. I don’t think her “crimes” rose to prison (I have no problem with people who do though) but I think she’s been publicly flogged and humiliated enough for her seemingly negligence. I guess the term enough is enough fits here. Now I prefer to never think about her again and hope the survivors keep healing.
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Post by Turtleneck 2020-05-13, 12:55

Floyd Robertson wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:As it should’ve been. Not one person testified they remembered telling LAKS about Nassar.
Twenty-five page opinion. AG will probably appeal.

I'm no legal bagel but doesn't an AG appeal fall under double jeopardy?

You are the first person in the history of Internet message boards to declare yourself not to be a legal expert.
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Post by Nordic 2020-05-13, 13:35

duffy munn wrote:No link I just heard it on the radio. The criminal charges against Simon have been dropped. I say good. While she certainly handled the entire Nassar scandal poorly, I don't think she did anything malicious or criminal.

Agree. The only thing they could come up with was whether she remembered the name of the doctor that was been investigated during a 5 min briefing several months later. I can't remember the Zoom call I just had. There is no evidence she covered anything up. That said, she was not equipped to handle the aftermath.
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Post by Wally Fairway 2020-05-15, 07:18

MiamiSpartan wrote:I wonder if they will have the decency to clear her name with the same publicity with which they have besmirched it.
ESPN is working overtime to get the article that clears the names of all those they have wrongly defamed publicly. I'm sure it will be published any day now.

ANY DAY NOW
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Post by AvgMSUJoe 2020-05-15, 07:49

At worst, her crime was listening to the legal team telling her to be distant from the on going investigations and keep her mouth shut...
The rest was a media creation.
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Post by CORNER BLITZ 2020-05-15, 08:33

MiamiSpartan wrote:I wonder if they will have the decency to clear her name with the same publicity with which they have besmirched it.

Guilty until proven innocent and then who even cares cause still guilty
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Post by Heathens '87 2020-05-15, 09:31

It's often best to trust the detail and depth of a process that results in such a choice. Opinions, including mine, based on an understanding short of that degree of work tend to be rather meaningless. So it seems to me that there is a question of whether the evidence to move forward is legally sufficient. I'm sure prosecutors would disagree and can move that through other channels. Judges, it seems to me, need to ensure prosecutors have the evidence needed to support a charge to keep prosecution itself from being used as a political tool. This case seems quite prone to that dynamic.

That said, President Simon remains a disgraced former leader of Michigan State. Her failure to appropriately lead Michigan State through the biggest challenge to its reputation in history resulted in direct harm to students, harm to the university as a whole and has cost MSU millions of dollars to-date. Some things she didn't know. She should've. Some people she empowered. She shouldn't have. And much like Hollis, she enjoyed the fun parts of the job while not paying attention to the details where true leadership is revealed. Criminal liability or not, she failed miserably as a leader of Michigan State University. And my loyalty is not to a leader, an AD, or a coach....it's to the institution and what it promises to do for students.

"Dead to me" is a phrase that seems appropriate for Simon and Hollis. Klages and Strampel are at a lower level in the Inferno in my view with Nassar obviously the center of this storm. Any praise for Simon at this point is a lesser equivalent of saying Mussolini made the trains run on time. She failed when students and MSU needed real leadership....
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Post by Wally Fairway 2020-05-15, 10:16

AvgMSUJoe wrote:At worst, her crime was listening to the legal team telling her to be distant from the on going investigations and keep her mouth shut...
The rest was a media creation.
I think that she has more guilt that your posts indicates, maybe not directly telling people to cover shit up or sweep it under the rug. But LKS was all about the brand; building the brand, marketing the brand and protecting the brand. She created and grew a culture that the University (aka the brand) was more important that some of the issues that should have been dealt with. And it was a culture that lead so someone like Dr. Strampel being allowed to continue his behavior because no one wanted to expose the problems that he was creating.

To be clear, I don't think there was an active group who hid Nassars problems, I think there were a few who were told (Klages, trainers, Track coach, etc) but he had built his reputation as the Olympic gymnastics Dr. to the point that the people were unable to consider he could be abusing athletes, or they were not convinced enough to actually do the right thing and kick it to higher/legal authorities.
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Post by DWags 2020-05-15, 13:38

I'm in the group, and I think it's rather large, that will appreciate LAKS bringing MSU along in many aspects of public university.   I won't let her shortcomings cloud my understanding of where MSU moved under her leadership.  From the isotope facility, to expanding MSU medical in Grand Rapids, to the MSU Foundation selling the health system property south of campus to consolidate McLaren’s two Lansing hospitals into a $450 million state-of-the-art campus. The research partnership with Wayne and UofM and a bunch more shit I could list that would be boring.  I get it, she did some great things.  

And I know we're all sick of the term, "You can build 100 bridges, but suck one... and you're always a .... sucker".  That too, however, labels her fairly well.   We can debate what she knew, when she knew it, if she should have or shouldn't have known it, but the buck stops with her.  She very clumsily went to the victims testimonies in court, and frankly embarrassed herself and MSU.   She never once thought of a PR firm coming in and helping MSU, which should have happened the second the ESPN thing aired.  

So, I understand her contribution.  I think it's unfair to just point out her shortcomings without consideration of what she accomplished.  I'm also fed up to here with the slow bleed of MSU in the press monthly, weekly, whenever.  I just want her to be out of the headlines.   I don't think her "crimes" rise to the level of a Joe Paterno, so I think her accomplishments can be discussed when we talk about her.  But I just don't want to talk about her anymore.
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Post by tGreenWay 2020-05-15, 14:39

DWags wrote:I'm in the group, and I think it's rather large, that will appreciate LAKS bringing MSU along in many aspects of public university.   I won't let her shortcomings cloud my understanding of where MSU moved under her leadership.  From the isotope facility, to expanding MSU medical in Grand Rapids, to the MSU Foundation selling the health system property south of campus to consolidate McLaren’s two Lansing hospitals into a $450 million state-of-the-art campus. The research partnership with Wayne and UofM and a bunch more shit I could list that would be boring.  I get it, she did some great things.  

And I know we're all sick of the term, "You can build 100 bridges, but suck one... and you're always a .... sucker".  That too, however, labels her fairly well.   We can debate what she knew, when she knew it, if she should have or shouldn't have known it, but the buck stops with her.  She very clumsily went to the victims testimonies in court, and frankly embarrassed herself and MSU.   She never once thought of a PR firm coming in and helping MSU, which should have happened the second the ESPN thing aired.  

So, I understand her contribution.  I think it's unfair to just point out her shortcomings without consideration of what she accomplished.  I'm also fed up to here with the slow bleed of MSU in the press monthly, weekly, whenever.  I just want her to be out of the headlines.   I don't think her "crimes" rise to the level of a Joe Paterno, so I think her accomplishments can be discussed when we talk about her.  But I just don't want to talk about her anymore.


Very well said.
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Post by Heathens '87 2020-05-15, 15:54

DWags wrote:

So, I understand her contribution.  I think it's unfair to just point out her shortcomings without consideration of what she accomplished.

1922-1943....the trains ran on time in Italy. Just sayin'.
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