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Post by CORNER BLITZ on Sat 23 May 2020 - 2:34

Nordic wrote:In general I set my daily protein and calorie needs and let the carbs and fat fall where they fall.

Any diet can work, if you stick to it. That is ultimately the key.


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There's stuff I don't necessarily agree with, although wouldn't die on a hill for, but quoted above is the main point and what I 1000% agree with. I would say the problem though is that's not at all the message that's ever been sent

I don't think anyone ever knew what the mypyramid was so I included one that had suggestions on it - but the below is basically 30ish years of 60+% carb diets that have been promoted as the base for health while this has happened:


  • From 1999–2000 through 2017–2018, the prevalence of obesity increased from 30.5% to 42.4%, and the prevalence of severe obesity increased from 4.7% to 9.2%. [Read CDC NCHS data brief]

  • Obesity-related conditions include heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer that are some of the leading causes of preventable, premature death. [Read guidelinesexternal icon]

  • The estimated annual medical cost of obesity in the United States was $147 billion in 2008 US dollars; the medical cost for people who have obesity was $1,429 higher than those of normal weight.




This is not going to go over well here - Page 4 Pyrami11
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That plate is saying to eat nearly 75% carbs and make dairy/protein low fat - with most of the suggestions for the protein I found not even mentioning red meat. 
Is it possible to eat appropriately like that, sure? 
Unlikely unless you're a rich hippie though. 
The first thing cut from that plate will be vegetables because they don't taste as good as anything else there, which is a problem because beyond providing benefits not just nutritionally it will also be one of the most satiating things on the plate to help keep calories in check (especially when you drastically cut fat and fatty cuts of meat out of the equation).


The dogma and talk around macros also kind of goes back to Rocinante (and I would assume most others) questioning that they are not athletes so they don't need that much protein. It makes sense (beyond all the above) because magazines/articles/etc are all PROTEIN SHAKES PROTEIN BROS PROTEEEEINNN so it appears that is "for athletes", but I would say back that a human requires protein and an athlete is actually the one that needs a lot more carbs suggested below not the average person

If big meat is promoting anything they suck at it



Just to repeat your correct point
Control overall calories #1
Close #2 is eating plenty of protein
#3 Split the rest of your calories between fat and carbs however feels/works best for your situation
#4 if you fuck that all up one meal/day, it's not an issue at all just restart the next day and try to string more good days in a row




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Post by Robert J Sakimano on Sat 23 May 2020 - 8:18

5'2"
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BP = 212/140 mmHg

Location: was at the Mio RediCare, then Hog Winslow's All U Can Eat Porkapalooza and Barber Shop. Now back at the Mio RediCare.
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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 9:35

No argument with the above CB. Agree the old school food pyramid is awful. It was so awful that diets swung too far the other way on the grain/carbs, were have became the devil. Like fats were in the food pyramid.
 
I try to take in 200g of protein a day. It is not easy and doesn't leave a lot of room for junk carbs. Next on the list is plenty of vegatables and fruit. After that it is dealers choice, usually a lot of nuts...I love nuts...I could live on nuts alone. PB by the spoonfull, no bread needed. But nuts pack a lot of calories unfortunately. Not a lot of room left for grains and potatoes, but I squeeze them in here and there. Oh and booze :).
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Post by MSU addict on Sat 23 May 2020 - 11:23

I learned awhile ago not to post in these types of threads.  People are convinced (as am I) they are correct and you are never going to change any persons mind.

I am not a vegetarian.  If you doubt this feel free to check out the cooking thread.  I love to eat meat.  Americans eat too much meat.

They say the best cons are when people never realize they are being conned.  If you think that "big meat" sucks at promoting its agenda and are talking about the proteins needs of athletes in the same post, you have been conned.

Protein is important.  It would be silly to suggest otherwise.  Irrespective of its word origin, protein intake should not be your primary dietary focus.  American's have more than enough protein in their diet.  If you believe that a vegan diet will not meet your protein needs you have been conned.

I could literally write volumes refuting many of the points made in this thread but I am not going to do so.  But I would like to make one last point though as their seems to be a focus on caloric intake with legumes and grains.

Sometimes a calorie is not a calorie.  In this country we assign all carbohydrates, including fiber, 4 calories per gram (the same as protein).  Our bodies do not digest insoluble fiber and only digest a portion of soluble fiber.  So the nutritional label overstates the true caloric content of these types of foods.  Fiber is good.  I would argue that it just as important for long term health as protein.  Americans do not eat enough fiber.  Like I said, the best cons...


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Post by steveschneider on Sat 23 May 2020 - 11:29

Saw Dr. Cate Shannahan on Real Time last night....

https://drcate.com/list-of-good-fats-and-oils-versus-bad/

She claims these oils are the devil. Looked through the list, I think I do a pretty good job of avoiding those. Sure when I'm the mexican restaurant I go for the chips which are probably drenched in vegetable oil, and I can't resist a cheese and cracker everynow and then but for the most part I'm an olive oil guy.

My take away too is I'm done with the store bought salad dressings and going to rely on the classic olive oil & balsamic combo.
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Post by steveschneider on Sat 23 May 2020 - 11:30

MSU addict wrote:I learned awhile ago no to post in these types of threads.  People are convinced (as am I) they are correct and you are never going to change any persons mind.

I am not a vegetarian.  If you doubt this feel free to check out the cooking thread.  I love to eat meat.  Americans eat too much meat.

They say the best cons are when people never realize they are being conned.  If you think that "big meat" sucks at promoting its agenda and are talking about the proteins needs of athletes in the same post, you have been conned.

Protein is important.  It would be silly to suggest otherwise.  Irrespective of its word origin, protein intake should not be your primary dietary focus.  American's have more than enough protein in their diet.  If you believe that a vegan diet will not meet your protein needs you have been conned.

I could literally write volumes refuting many of the points made in this thread but I am not going to do so.  But I would like to make one last point though as their seems to be a focus on caloric intake with legumes and grains.

Sometimes a calorie is not a calorie.  In this country we assign all carbohydrates, including fiber, 4 calories per gram (the same as protein).  Our bodies do not digest insoluble fiber and only digest a portion of insoluble fiber.  So the nutritional label overstates the true caloric content of these types of foods.  Fiber is good.  I would argue that it just as important for long term health as protein.  Americans do not eat enough fiber. Like I said, the best cons...

I'm with you on the fiber message, I think shitting with little effort is a good thing and you want to be log rolling.
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Post by Watch Out Pylon! on Sat 23 May 2020 - 11:32

Man you guys are serious about your diets. I guess I'm just a simple guy when it comes to food. I'm just trying to pay attention to portion control and cutting out as much fried shit as possible.

I've got a 1/4 cow in my chest freezer. Various steak cuts and ground beef. Picked up 40 pounds of chicken a couple weeks back as well. Two whole chickens, a bunch of breasts, thighs, & drumsticks. Trying to cut down on grocery store runs as much as possible right now.
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Post by tGreenWay on Sat 23 May 2020 - 12:29

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Man you guys are serious about your diets. I guess I'm just a simple guy when it comes to food. I'm just trying to pay attention to portion control and cutting out as much fried shit as possible.

I've got a 1/4 cow in my chest freezer. Various steak cuts and ground beef. Picked up 40 pounds of chicken a couple weeks back as well. Two whole chickens, a bunch of breasts, thighs, & drumsticks. Trying to cut down on grocery store runs as much as possible right now.


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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 12:42

MSU addict wrote:I learned awhile ago not to post in these types of threads.  People are convinced (as am I) they are correct and you are never going to change any persons mind.

I am not a vegetarian.  If you doubt this feel free to check out the cooking thread.  I love to eat meat.  Americans eat too much meat.

They say the best cons are when people never realize they are being conned.  If you think that "big meat" sucks at promoting its agenda and are talking about the proteins needs of athletes in the same post, you have been conned.

Protein is important.  It would be silly to suggest otherwise.  Irrespective of its word origin, protein intake should not be your primary dietary focus.  American's have more than enough protein in their diet.  If you believe that a vegan diet will not meet your protein needs you have been conned.

I could literally write volumes refuting many of the points made in this thread but I am not going to do so.  But I would like to make one last point though as their seems to be a focus on caloric intake with legumes and grains.

Sometimes a calorie is not a calorie.  In this country we assign all carbohydrates, including fiber, 4 calories per gram (the same as protein).  Our bodies do not digest insoluble fiber and only digest a portion of soluble fiber.  So the nutritional label overstates the true caloric content of these types of foods.  Fiber is good.  I would argue that it just as important for long term health as protein.  Americans do not eat enough fiber.  Like I said, the best cons...


Agree with the last paragraph. 

Obviously we are going disagree on protein.And I'm all for listening to opinions on diet, so don't be shy. Intake will vary on independent needs. I do not suggest/recommend 200g of protein for everyone, but do think it should be your first focus. Not necessarily because it is the most important, but because it is the easiest to overlook and the hardest to consume (for most people).


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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 12:43

steveschneider wrote:Saw Dr. Cate Shannahan on Real Time last night....

https://drcate.com/list-of-good-fats-and-oils-versus-bad/

She claims these oils are the devil. Looked through the list, I think I do a pretty good job of avoiding those. Sure when I'm the mexican restaurant I go for the chips which are probably drenched in vegetable oil, and I can't resist a cheese and cracker everynow and then but for the most part I'm an olive oil guy.

My take away too is I'm done with the store bought salad dressings and going to rely on the classic olive oil & balsamic combo.
 
Those are the only two I use
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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 12:46

They say the best cons are when people never realize they are being conned.  If you think that "big meat" sucks at promoting its agenda and are talking about the proteins needs of athletes in the same post, you have been conned.

You should check out Game Changers re:meat industry.
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Post by CORNER BLITZ on Sat 23 May 2020 - 12:52

MSU addict wrote:If you think that "big meat" sucks at promoting its agenda and are talking about the proteins needs of athletes in the same post, you have been conned.

If you believe that a vegan diet will not meet your protein needs you have been conned.

Sometimes a calorie is not a calorie.  In this country we assign all carbohydrates, including fiber, 4 calories per gram (the same as protein).  Our bodies do not digest insoluble fiber and only digest a portion of soluble fiber.  So the nutritional label overstates the true caloric content of these types of foods.  Fiber is good.  I would argue that it just as important for long term health as protein.  Americans do not eat enough fiber.  Like I said, the best cons...


-That's an interesting way to read what I wrote
-Didn't say you can't hit goals with a vegan diet, just that it takes more effort
-we talked a lot about fiber already and multiple sources for it
-if you've bought a health food package you've seen net carbs loudly on the front panel, and I would doubt there's a high percentage of the population that looks at the nutrition panel (which can legally be off 20%)
-what about the thermogenic effect of protein? Should that still be 4?
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Post by MSU addict on Sat 23 May 2020 - 13:06

Nordic wrote:Agree with the last paragraph. 

Obviously we are going disagree on protein.And I'm all for listening to opinions on diet, so don't be shy. Intake will vary on independent needs. I do not suggest/recommend 200g of protein for everyone, but do think it should be your first focus. Not necessarily because it is the most important, but because it is the easiest to overlook and the hardest to consume (for most people).
I believe it really comes down to your goals. If your goal is to build or maintain muscle mass, yes proteins is going to be a primary focus. I would argue that if you goal is long term health, it should not be your primary focus.

One of the greatest lessons I have learned is that anything to excess is wrong. That holds true for protein intake. I would argue that - for most people - taking in more that 2 grams per kg of body weight per day is going be more detrimental than beneficial for long term health.

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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 13:18

MSU addict wrote:
Nordic wrote:Agree with the last paragraph. 

Obviously we are going disagree on protein.And I'm all for listening to opinions on diet, so don't be shy. Intake will vary on independent needs. I do not suggest/recommend 200g of protein for everyone, but do think it should be your first focus. Not necessarily because it is the most important, but because it is the easiest to overlook and the hardest to consume (for most people).
I believe it really comes down to your goals.  If your goal is to build or maintain muscle mass, yes proteins is going to be a primary focus.  I would argue that if you goal is long term health, it should not be your primary focus.

One of the greatest lessons I have learned is that anything to excess is wrong.  That holds true for protein intake.  I would argue that - for most people - taking in more that 2 grams per kg of body weight per day is going be more detrimental than beneficial for long term health.


Agree 100% on the first part.

Curious to hear more on the last part. FWIW, I would only recommend this for strength athletes or those trying to build/maintain muscle mass, not average tSwillers
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Post by MSU addict on Sat 23 May 2020 - 13:28

CORNER BLITZ wrote:
MSU addict wrote:If you think that "big meat" sucks at promoting its agenda and are talking about the proteins needs of athletes in the same post, you have been conned.

If you believe that a vegan diet will not meet your protein needs you have been conned.

Sometimes a calorie is not a calorie.  In this country we assign all carbohydrates, including fiber, 4 calories per gram (the same as protein).  Our bodies do not digest insoluble fiber and only digest a portion of soluble fiber.  So the nutritional label overstates the true caloric content of these types of foods.  Fiber is good.  I would argue that it just as important for long term health as protein.  Americans do not eat enough fiber.  Like I said, the best cons...


-That's an interesting way to read what I wrote
-Didn't say you can't hit goals with a vegan diet, just that it takes more effort
-we talked a lot about fiber already and multiple sources for it
-if you've bought a health food package you've seen net carbs loudly on the front panel, and I would doubt there's a high percentage of the population that looks at the nutrition panel (which can legally be off 20%)
-what about the thermogenic effect of protein? Should that still be 4?
I realize that my post seemed a bit of personal attack, it really was not my goal and I do apologize.

Yes, you do see net carbs on a food label, but not net calories.  Most countries do not include fiber as calories, but we do.

Essentially all foods have a thermogenic effect.  Yes it is high for protein, but it also high for fibers.
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Post by CORNER BLITZ on Sat 23 May 2020 - 13:55

No need to apologize, why I tried to separate and just talk back to the points. It was mostly about the athlete thing since that was in response to multiple other posts - Game Changers film tried to sell vegan athleticism, I posted a rebuttal, the athlete question got brought up, I phrased that another way

People will say 'I'm not an athlete I don't need that much protein' (what is that much?) and then drink a gatorade. 
Id say, relatively speaking, the amount of protein required for professional athlete and regular person aren't as different as the amount of carbs required for those tasks...but we will go (tofu)HAM on some carbs and think nothing of it


You even say if your goal is to maintain muscle mass...pretty important thing for life #helpIvefallen. That's not saying you need to deadlift a car or bench press a house. The physical being of your entire body is made of protein, if you want to fuel that through carbs or fat do whatever you want (but probably don't go too low on fat since your hormones need that). Plus as you age your body doesn't even utilize the protein as well so you need more
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Post by Turtleneck on Sat 23 May 2020 - 13:56

Football Going Vegan
Former England footballer Jermaine Jenas goes on a journey to discover the world of veganism – experimenting with a plant-based diet at home while also exploring how the concept is spreading in the professional game.

Jenas hears from current England international Chris Smalling on how becoming a vegan has reduced his injury issues and even led to him speaking with his boot manufacturer about developing leather-free boots.

Jenas also speaks to celebrity nutritionist Rhiannon Lambert, cooks a couple of dishes with Instagram chef sensation Miguel Barclay, and spends the day at the first ever vegan football club, Forest Green Rovers.

The former Tottenham midfielder also sits down with vegan activist Ed Winters for an animated discussion which leaves Jenas considering making his own move to a plant-based future.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p07phy2j/football-going-vegan
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Post by MSU addict on Sat 23 May 2020 - 14:07

Nordic wrote:Curious to hear more on the last part. FWIW, I would only recommend this for strength athletes or those trying to build/maintain muscle mass, not average tSwillers
As I said, I do believe anything to excess is wrong. How much is too much protein? - who knows. It would depend on multiple factors including the source of the protein and are you eating protein to the exclusion of other beneficial foods. The figure I stated is a general number of what is considered excess protein intake. There are documented negative effects of too much protein, but they are nothing I would be too concerned with.

To me it comes down to eating what a human should eat. Unfortunately it seems no one can agree on that.

At one time I lifted fairly seriously, I no longer do. I am amazed at how fast the body will shed excess muscle mass. It leads me to believe that maybe it should not be there.
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Post by CORNER BLITZ on Sat 23 May 2020 - 14:36

Nordic wrote:
Curious to hear more on the last part. FWIW, I would only recommend this for strength athletes or those trying to build/maintain muscle mass, not average tSwillers


tldr; you won't die from 200g - also I hate "maintain muscle mass" as that should be every person's goal





The tough part in most studies is that it's based off g/kg of lean body mass, which aren't freedom units and who actually knows their lbm. The other difficult part of most studies is they are generally university based and difficult to carry out, so they it largely be populated with university aged people and/or athletes since there's money to be made there


Breaking down the video for you (since I'm now getting bombarded with youtube's algorithm and layne will argue any position - he's more iifym kinda guy I think since he talks a shit load about pop tarts and likes to argue with people)


I would venture to guess your LBM is actually higher than this, but the numbers are nicer putting it lower

225ish => 180#lbm =>82.6kg
Minimum = 150g
Optimal = 200g
Max studied anabolic not wasted = 231g
Safe and not tested beyond = 290g
no real unsafe UL known

Age: +1.5% per year after age of 30







https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27807480/ - A High Protein Diet Has No Harmful Effects: A One-Year Crossover Study in Resistance-Trained Males
"consumed a high protein diet (~2.51-3.32 g/kg/d) for one year, there were no harmful effects on measures of blood lipids as well as liver and kidney function"


https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-too-much-protein-bad-for-you#section2
"A review published in 2017 concluded that increased protein intake does not harm the bones. If anything, the evidence pointed to a higher protein intake improving bone health "

"High protein intake may cause harm in people with diagnosed kidney disease, but the same doesn’t apply to people with healthy kidneys
The two main risk factors for kidney failure are high blood pressure (hypertension) and diabetes. A higher protein intake benefits both
In conclusion, there is no evidence that a high protein intake harms kidney function in people who don’t have kidney disease."
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Post by CORNER BLITZ on Sat 23 May 2020 - 15:28

If you watch one of the debunking videos this is the guy mentioned that had one of his studies taken out of context for the "documentary"

[ig]B5KxifglESF[/ig]

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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 15:36

MSU addict wrote:
Nordic wrote:Curious to hear more on the last part. FWIW, I would only recommend this for strength athletes or those trying to build/maintain muscle mass, not average tSwillers
As I said, I do believe anything to excess is wrong.  How much is too much protein? - who knows.  It would depend on multiple factors including the source of the protein and are you eating protein to the exclusion of other beneficial foods.  The figure I stated is a general number of what is considered excess protein intake.  There are documented negative effects of too much protein, but they are nothing I would be too concerned with.

To me it comes down to eating what a human should eat.  Unfortunately it seems no one can agree on that.  

At one time I lifted fairly seriously, I no longer do.  I am amazed at how fast the body will shed excess muscle mass.  It leads me to believe that maybe it should not be there.  

I don't think we are that far off in our thinking actually. It is tough to communicate everything in a msg board post.

Protein is not the best for fuel and excess can cause issues (just like carbs and fat). Your diet and protein load should be based on your specific needs. Personally, I still lift/workout 5 days a week, so I stick with the consensus 1.6-2.2g of protein per kg for gaining/maintaining muscle mass. I assume CB is similar. I've read articles/studies that say more or say that is overkill, but I would say the general consensus is around 1.6-2.2g for gaining muscle mass/strength training. Timing, what you eat with it and quantity per meal all play a factor as well, I'm obv generalizing. FWIW I lift for strength, not to build mass/hypertrophy. I'm not a body builder by any stretch, just an aging ogre that likes to lift heavy things and stay in "relatively" good shape.

I probably average 33/33/33 protein/fat/carbs (on days that I don't cheat/drink). I'm not a fan of vegan, caveman or keto diets. Each macro serves a purposes to me and I (try) keep them at their purpose. Meat/dairy is a more efficient for consuming protein, carbs/fat for fuel (again generalizing).

The average tSwiller probably only needs 1g/kg.  I'm not sure what the actual consensus is, but I think that is close. But I agree with CB that most don't prioritize muscle health which leads to atrophy as they age. Maintaining my strength/muscle mass is just as important to me as joint, heart, lung, brain, etc. health. I obv take it a bit to the extreme, but I like to be ready in case a young whipper snapper tries to take me out.

Coming full circle, that is why I, personally, prioritize protein.
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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 15:47

Turtleneck wrote:Football Going Vegan
Former England footballer Jermaine Jenas goes on a journey to discover the world of veganism – experimenting with a plant-based diet at home while also exploring how the concept is spreading in the professional game.

Jenas hears from current England international Chris Smalling on how becoming a vegan has reduced his injury issues and even led to him speaking with his boot manufacturer about developing leather-free boots.

Jenas also speaks to celebrity nutritionist Rhiannon Lambert, cooks a couple of dishes with Instagram chef sensation Miguel Barclay, and spends the day at the first ever vegan football club, Forest Green Rovers.

The former Tottenham midfielder also sits down with vegan activist Ed Winters for an animated discussion which leaves Jenas considering making his own move to a plant-based future.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p07phy2j/football-going-vegan

Anecdotal obviously. And I don't argue you can't be a world class athlete on the vegan diet. I don't think you'll be breaking any deadlift records going vegan, but probably good for kicking the ball around :). Simply put, meat is a more efficient way to consume protein and the necessary amino acids.

This is not going to go over well here - Page 4 4113017228 I wonder how many mammals were killed by farm equipment to make up his diet.


Last edited by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 15:48; edited 1 time in total
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Post by steveschneider on Sat 23 May 2020 - 15:48

Alright probably a good place to ask while the exercise nutrition experts are on line...

What should I do to build strength? I don't want to put on bulk muscle mass. For reference point probably the best I could do is end up around a John McEnroe physique which is obtainable for me. Outside of the beer gut I'm lean. I jog 3-4 miles a day, I walk the golf course, I play tennis, I bike a bit for transportation...what should I add? Fifty pushups a day? Get resistance bands? Go swim at the community pool? I'll hang up and listen. Thanks!
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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 15:54

This will add another 10 pages to this thread. But here is a VERY GENERAL guidline:

Strength training: Heavy weight (75-95% of your 1 rep max), lower reps (3-5 sets, 1-6 reps), don't rep to failure, train more often
Hypertrophy/Muscle gain: Medium/heavy weight (60-75% 1RM), medium reps (3-5 sets, 8-12 reps), 30-50 total reps per muscle group, rep to failure/muscle burn, let your muscles recover longer

But yes, you will get stronger doing 50 push-ups a day. I would say start with doing push-ups and air squats every day. If you can find something to do pullups on, add that as well. Strength training will help with the beer gut.

Now over to CB for rebuttal/more info...
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Post by steveschneider on Sat 23 May 2020 - 16:00

Nordic wrote:This will add another 10 pages to this thread. But here is a VERY GENERAL guidline:

Strength training: Heavy weight (75-95% of your 1 rep max), lower reps (3-5 sets, 1-6 reps), don't rep to failure, train more often
Hypertrophy/Muscle gain: Medium/heavy weight (60-75% 1RM), medium reps (3-5 sets, 8-12 reps), 30-50 total reps per muscle group, rep to failure/muscle burn, let your muscles recover longer

But yes, you will get stronger doing 50 push-ups a day. I would say start with doing push-ups and air squats every day. If you can find something to do pullups on, add that as well. Strength training will help with the beer gut.

Now over to CB for rebuttal/more info...

On it. I want to start without weights...How may air squats a day would you recommend? I'll do all three, you got an in house pull up bar or setup thing you'd recommend?
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Post by CORNER BLITZ on Sat 23 May 2020 - 16:15

Nordic wrote:
I probably average 33/33/33 protein/fat/carbs (on days that I don't cheat/drink). I'm not a fan of vegan, caveman or keto diets. Each macro serves a purposes to me and I (try) keep them at their purpose. Meat/dairy is a more efficient for consuming protein, carbs/fat for fuel (again generalizing).

The average tSwiller probably only needs 1g/kg.  I'm not sure what the actual consensus is, but I think that is close. But I agree with CB that most don't prioritize muscle health which leads to atrophy as they age. Maintaining my strength/muscle mass is just as important to me as joint, heart, lung, brain, etc. health. I obv take it a bit to the extreme, but I like to be ready in case a young whipper snapper tries to take me out.

Fad diets are just as the name implies but can be good for some as most need a direction or rules to follow - which is why I also bought up the main rules of the past 30 years being very high carb low fat low protein. Problem with the fads are the same as anything else, zealots get the most airtime and proportional blow things out of whack.

Like a dad bod. When that was first a term it was a dude that clearly worked out but had a beer belly, now it's just any fat guy. Paleo can have bacon became I'm Paleo so I can eat 1lb of bacon a day everyday.... That's just dumb, but that's how these things go and then it becomes what people believe. The number of people at work that eat "healthy muffins" is ridiculous, that's a cupcake and there's nothing health about it other than marketing.

That second point - what supports your joints, what is your heart.
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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 16:17

I have one of the simple door mount pull up bars and it holds my fat ass. But you could also find a tree branch or deck.

I would start by doing 5 push-ups, 20 air squats, 1 assisted pull-up and a 10s hollow hold or plank. On the plank, squeeze all your muscles as hard as you can, don't just plank. Every day/week add reps or time. Google "30 Day (insert exercise) Challenge" and you will find daily regimens you can use as motivation/guide. Split them up or do each every day.
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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 16:21

CORNER BLITZ wrote:
Nordic wrote:
I probably average 33/33/33 protein/fat/carbs (on days that I don't cheat/drink). I'm not a fan of vegan, caveman or keto diets. Each macro serves a purposes to me and I (try) keep them at their purpose. Meat/dairy is a more efficient for consuming protein, carbs/fat for fuel (again generalizing).

The average tSwiller probably only needs 1g/kg.  I'm not sure what the actual consensus is, but I think that is close. But I agree with CB that most don't prioritize muscle health which leads to atrophy as they age. Maintaining my strength/muscle mass is just as important to me as joint, heart, lung, brain, etc. health. I obv take it a bit to the extreme, but I like to be ready in case a young whipper snapper tries to take me out.

Fad diets are just as the name implies but can be good for some as most need a direction or rules to follow - which is why I also bought up the main rules of the past 30 years being very high carb low fat low protein. Problem with the fads are the same as anything else, zealots get the most airtime and proportional blow things out of whack.

Like a dad bod. When that was first a term it was a dude that clearly worked out but had a beer belly, now it's just any fat guy. Paleo can have bacon became I'm Paleo so I can eat 1lb of bacon a day everyday.... That's just dumb, but that's how these things go and then it becomes what people believe. The number of people at work that eat "healthy muffins" is ridiculous, that's a cupcake and there's nothing health about it other than marketing.

That second point - what supports your joints, what is your heart.

There ain't no healthy muffin, I don't consider that a grain. I consider it junk food.
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Post by CORNER BLITZ on Sat 23 May 2020 - 17:04

Nordic wrote:This will add another 10 pages to this thread. But here is a VERY GENERAL guidline:

Strength training: Heavy weight (75-95% of your 1 rep max), lower reps (3-5 sets, 1-6 reps), don't rep to failure, train more often
Hypertrophy/Muscle gain: Medium/heavy weight (60-75% 1RM), medium reps (3-5 sets, 8-12 reps), 30-50 total reps per muscle group, rep to failure/muscle burn, let your muscles recover longer

But yes, you will get stronger doing 50 push-ups a day. I would say start with doing push-ups and air squats every day. If you can find something to do pullups on, add that as well. Strength training will help with the beer gut.

Now over to CB for rebuttal/more info...

Replying to this but including Steve's stuff at the end since multi-quote and mobile aren't friends

My favorite quote along the lines of Steve's thoughts and my last post are from Arnold back when he ate meat.
Paraphrasing: When people would come up to me and say they don't want to look like me or be that big, I would just reply "don't worry, you never will"

Touching a weight isn't going to bulk anyone the fuck up magically. That takes years, genetics, nutrition, and needles. So weights are awesome and shouldn't be scary, but they're not required especially to start.

I like what you had for Steve there. The only precautionary thing and product I might start with is a miniband for band pullaparts.
Love pushups, 50 a day is great. Doesn't even need to be wake up and do 50, that sounds terrible to start. Maybe just 5 pushups 10 times a day or even one 50 times if that's where you're at. Modern age makes me want to add the pullaparts to that since most of what we do on computers/life is infront of us and you the see older people just crumbling over forward so I'd want to emphasize getting some upper back volume in there. If I was doing 50 pushups id want to do 100 pull-aparts

Pullups are great but too hard for many. Again to start that's something I'd say if you're walking in your basement and see the I-beam or maybe outside and there's a branch or your deck has a 2x12 you could grab that and jump up then slowly lower yourself down to build up that strength without having to buy anything

Even thought I think it's probably the most important and a good life indicator, squats are hard to recommend since form dictates a lot. With those I'd say just stand by the corner of dining room chair and as slow as possible sit down. When your butt touches try to make that be just 50% if your weight supported by the chair, hold that for a second then stand back up. Again I'd start small and just do 5 sets of 5 of those throughout the day. Volume is king in body weight exercises so you if you liked that and can make it a habit it will help you not be old and frail.


Idk if you can right now Steve but from your post of what you do looks pretty solid - if you really want to change i'd start by replacing 1 jog day with a swim day. Swimming is great total body and cardio. If you love jogging I'm ot trying to take that away, just make the transition to adding a different exercises easier.

With the squat and pushup stuff I'd start at that baseline, then as it gets easier over time progress by adding more volume throughout the day....again over time though so hit 50 total easily for multiple days before moving to 75 total. I'd guess you can do pushups from life/golf/tennis/active in general, but you want them to be a nice full range of motion chest to deck not chicken peck reps. General good starting point form for shoulder safety is hands closer to body, splay your fingers out, then the imaginary line that bisects your thumb and index finger should point straight forward. Often people have their hands pointed in, too far away from their body and too high - you wouldn't bench press super wide and at your neck but for some reason that's the go to pushup

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Post by Robert J Sakimano on Sat 23 May 2020 - 20:59

Just eliminate sugar and processed carbohydrates.

Strength training, interval training, circuit training. Very little aerobic exercise is necessary.

Important part is eliminating sugar and carbohydrates. Exercise doesn't matter if you dont do that.

(It's that simple).


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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 21:04

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Just eliminate sugar and processed carbohydrates.

Strength training, interval training, circuit training. Very little aerobic exercise is necessary.

Important part is eliminating sugar and carbohydrates. Exercise doesn't matter if you dont do that.

(It's that simple).


 
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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 21:05

Chipolte fo' dinner: Chicken bowl, black beans, lettuce, guac, hot salsa
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Post by Nordic on Sat 23 May 2020 - 21:28

From CBs post... 

Love the Arnold quote. If we could all look like Arnold, we would.

Bands are an excellent and cheap idea. Whatever you do just K.I.S.S. Pick something, stick to it.

Intervals throughout the day are also a great idea. 1 pushup and 5 squats every hour...or two every two hours...or everytime you post on tSwill. 1 push-up > 0 push-ups
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Post by steveschneider on Sun 24 May 2020 - 14:45

CORNER BLITZ wrote:
Nordic wrote:This will add another 10 pages to this thread. But here is a VERY GENERAL guidline:

Strength training: Heavy weight (75-95% of your 1 rep max), lower reps (3-5 sets, 1-6 reps), don't rep to failure, train more often
Hypertrophy/Muscle gain: Medium/heavy weight (60-75% 1RM), medium reps (3-5 sets, 8-12 reps), 30-50 total reps per muscle group, rep to failure/muscle burn, let your muscles recover longer

But yes, you will get stronger doing 50 push-ups a day. I would say start with doing push-ups and air squats every day. If you can find something to do pullups on, add that as well. Strength training will help with the beer gut.

Now over to CB for rebuttal/more info...

Replying to this but including Steve's stuff at the end since multi-quote and mobile aren't friends

My favorite quote along the lines of Steve's thoughts and my last post are from Arnold back when he ate meat.
Paraphrasing: When people would come up to me and say they don't want to look like me or be that big, I would just reply "don't worry, you never will"

Touching a weight isn't going to bulk anyone the fuck up magically. That takes years, genetics, nutrition, and needles. So weights are awesome and shouldn't be scary, but they're not required especially to start.

I like what you had for Steve there. The only precautionary thing and product I might start with is a miniband for band pullaparts.
Love pushups, 50 a day is great. Doesn't even need to be wake up and do 50, that sounds terrible to start. Maybe just 5 pushups 10 times a day or even one 50 times if that's where you're at. Modern age makes me want to add the pullaparts to that since most of what we do on computers/life is infront of us and you the see older people just crumbling over forward so I'd want to emphasize getting some upper back volume in there. If I was doing 50 pushups id want to do 100 pull-aparts

Pullups are great but too hard for many. Again to start that's something I'd say if you're walking in your basement and see the I-beam or maybe outside and there's a branch or your deck has a 2x12 you could grab that and jump up then slowly lower yourself down to build up that strength without having to buy anything

Even thought I think it's probably the most important and a good life indicator, squats are hard to recommend since form dictates a lot. With those I'd say just stand by the corner of dining room chair and as slow as possible sit down. When your butt touches try to make that be just 50% if your weight supported by the chair, hold that for a second then stand back up. Again I'd start small and just do 5 sets of 5 of those throughout the day. Volume is king in body weight exercises so you if you liked that and can make it a habit it will help you not be old and frail.


Idk if you can right now Steve but from your post of what you do looks pretty solid - if you really want to change i'd start by replacing 1 jog day with a swim day. Swimming is great total body and cardio. If you love jogging I'm ot trying to take that away, just make the transition to adding a different exercises easier.

With the squat and pushup stuff I'd start at that baseline, then as it gets easier over time progress by adding more volume throughout the day....again over time though so hit 50 total easily for multiple days before moving to 75 total. I'd guess you can do pushups from life/golf/tennis/active in general, but you want them to be a nice full range of motion chest to deck not chicken peck reps. General good starting point form for shoulder safety is hands closer to body, splay your fingers out, then the imaginary line that bisects your thumb and index finger should point straight forward. Often people have their hands pointed in, too far away from their body and too high - you wouldn't bench press super wide and at your neck but for some reason that's the go to pushup


Just saw your post. Did Nordics today. I'm probably going to work up to the chinups once I can crank out 50 pushups a day I'll throw the pullups in. Probably going to get one of those setups that has the dip bars on it as well.

That Arnold quote was a good one btw. I'll look into that band you recommended but right now I just want to focus on getting a start and maintaining consistency.

Also, the real simple truth is if I just cut out beer (I love it) I'd probably get to my goal a lot faster and be rocking the shorts again.
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Post by steveschneider on Sun 24 May 2020 - 14:46

Nordic wrote:From CBs post... 

Love the Arnold quote. If we could all look like Arnold, we would.

Bands are an excellent and cheap idea. Whatever you do just K.I.S.S. Pick something, stick to it.

Intervals throughout the day are also a great idea. 1 pushup and 5 squats every hour...or two every two hours...or everytime you post on tSwill. 1 push-up > 0 push-ups

Yeah, that's what I determined. I want this to feel easy for the first few weeks. I know there's the old saying 'no pain, no gain' but I'm trying to make it fun so I keep doing it. I think that will be key for me and I anticipate over time I'll add more.
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Post by Nordic on Sun 24 May 2020 - 23:32

Fuck 'no pain,no gain'. Fitness, not brokeness.
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Post by Nordic on Sun 24 May 2020 - 23:33

Where do we stand on sushi? Eating some leftovers and they are delishes.
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Post by steveschneider on Sun 24 May 2020 - 23:39

Nordic wrote:Where do we stand on sushi? Eating some leftovers and they are delishes.

My history with sushi is unfortunate. I got a nasty bug the same day I had sushi and can barely eat it to this day. Also imo Mexican, Thai and Indian, Chinese > Japanese
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Post by CORNER BLITZ Yesterday at 0:20

What's a leftover?
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Post by Cameron Yesterday at 0:46

I love sushi, but there is nothing worse than bad sushi.
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