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Let's talk about Masks baby

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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2020-06-13, 22:54

I would like to try to approach this from a non-partisan standpoint. Are we capable of having a grown up discussion? I was talking about this with tWyff earlier.

We know it has become politicized, but I would like to examine how we got to this point without directly pointing the finger at left or right. I do think that 'certain parties' bear some responsibility for it becoming as politicized as it has, but how did we get to that point? Why was and has the messaging been so inconsistent from the CDC and WHO? Was it simply that they were trying to protect PPE for essential workers initially? So they lied? I am not a scientist by trade, I just read a lot of stuff and play one on the internet. It seems fairly straightforward, and has for some time dating back to late March, that widespread mask usage is beneficial to stopping the spread. It seems pretty straightforward (and has from basically the start) that homemade mask types will not prevent you from attaining the virus (old school shoutout, if you know, you know), but will go a long way towards preventing you from spreading the virus if you happen to have it, symptomatic, asymptomatic, or presymptomatic. It really does boil down to Coach Tucker's graphic, which I can't find right now but shows something like non mask wearer to mask wearer - ~ 70% transmission. Mask wearer to non mask wearer ~ 30% transmission. Mask wearer to mask wearer ~ 5% transmission.

If we had been better at messaging this, we wouldn't be in the political shitstorm we are in right now, where 30-35% of folks won't wear them (I wish I could cite an article I read this morning in one of the Detroit rags about a random survey of 57-odd stores in Michigan). According to the scientists I follow, if 80%+ of folks would wear masks in public, especially indoors, we could get the R down to .5 or less in no time. Which basically means we could beat this thing, even with shoddy/unwilling contact tracing.

The longer the inconsistencies in the messaging went on, the longer the debate lingered out there and the more it became politicized. I know you can cite the early on protests at the Capital, but I will maintain that was a vocal minority. Polls/numbers show that a lot of folks were and are STILL very concerned about this thing, but there's a gap between number of folks who are concerned and number of folks who are willing to wear masks in public.

So what happened? I'm not asking how to fix it, toothpaste is out of the tube in this shit-tastic, uber polarized version of the US of A that we currently reside in. I just don't really understand how the CDC and WHO fucked it up this badly. We really could be in a much better spot right now I think.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-14, 07:43

I've been wearing one since mid-March anytime I leave the house and might come in contact with others (except when riding my bike and running).

I don't need politicians, the WHO or CDC to tell me what I already know.
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Post by DWags on 2020-06-14, 08:14

I wear one when I go places. Friday we ate at coopers hawk with a couple. Wore a mask until you sat. Then you could take it off. If you got up you had to put it on. Grocery store or any public store/place I’ll wear one.

And WBH I think you’re right about the WHO and CDC not being consistent. It also doesn’t help we have an administration that sends these signals. It is politicized now, it’s too late to stop it.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-14, 08:25

I think that in addition to trying to avoid people buying up all of the masks that healthcare workers needed, a lot of it comes down to it being a new virus that we were learning about. The initial guidance on it was that wearing a non-respirator mask isn't really going to prevent you from catching it. And that still seems to be largely the case. But I think that as they started to suspect just how many people may be asymptomatic or with very light symptoms (many times the number of people with symptoms), then they needed to ask people to wear something--anything--to cover their faces because they don't know if they have it or not.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-14, 08:47

We live in an anti science country.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-14, 09:42

While not wanting to "politicize" the issue is admirable, one side believes in science, data and the value of human life.

The other side calls it a "hoax", suggests that people inject disinfectant and mocks people who do wear masks.

So..
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Post by Turtleneck on 2020-06-14, 09:45

steveschneider wrote:We live in an anti science intellectual country.

Fixed
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-14, 09:55

Also, with regard to the CDC and the WHO, it should be noted that their funding has probably been threatened unless they promote a certain message to the public.

An administration that would sell America out to Russia and withhold aid to the Ukraine in return for political favors would do the same to the CDC and the WHO.

That why you trust them, along with Fauci, Dr. Scarf, et al. at your own peril.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-14, 10:54

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I would like to try to approach this from a non-partisan standpoint. Are we capable of having a grown up discussion?


Well, that lasted for a couple of posts anyway.
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Post by Rocinante on 2020-06-14, 10:58

It’s not partisan to say that the president is to blame. He thinks the mask makes him look dumb so he doesn’t wear one. Goes in TV and says “you can wear one. You don’t have to, but you can. I’m not going to wear one. But you can.”

It starts at the top.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-14, 11:07

Rocinante wrote:It’s not partisan to say that the president is to blame. He thinks the mask makes him look dumb so he doesn’t wear one. Goes in TV and says “you can wear one. You don’t have to, but you can. I’m not going to wear one. But you can.”

It starts at the top.
yep.

Elections have consequences.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-14, 14:37

Yeah, seems like there's really only one side that wants to cosplay revolutionary war founding father constitutional bullshit and fight for their own personal freedumbs.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-14, 14:39

Also, for those interested I'll outline why I wear a mask.

A) because I don't want to get sick

B) because I believe covid-19 is real

C) I don't want to spread it and kill someone

D) I listen to science and science has no bias or political leanings.
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Post by GRR Spartan on 2020-06-14, 18:57

I wear a 3 layer mask fabric mask and when I go to the store and will wear it when I go to the doctor  appointment that's been backed up to September.  

Planning on wearing one if there is a HS football season and beyond.

Probably will wear a mask until there is a widely avaiavable vaccine that works.  Could be another 24-36 months.

My opinion is too many people are too anxious to return to pre-COVID and there is never going to be pre-COVID situations ever again.

Wish it wasn't political but we have a POTUS who panders to science deniers. If you travel by air you might find yourself in a full to capacity aircraft with people who pull their mask below their nose, lower lip or below their chin and the crew can't do jack because the FAA refuses to require wearing a mask. That's because the POTUS refuses to give the FAA the power of an Executive Order requiring masks.

I was entering a Costco on the East side of GR and saw a woman refuse to wear a mask because Costco requiring one "Violated her Constitutional Rights". The greeter held her ground. As she turned towards me I told the offended woman to read her Costco membership. Agreeing to be a member takes away some of her "rights".
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-15, 19:50

I wore a mask today when I went into a shop. Everyone in there was wearing one and it wasn’t a big deal but everyone at this place seems pretty smart.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-15, 20:42

steveschneider wrote:I wore a mask today when I went into a shop. Everyone in there was wearing one and it wasn’t a big deal but everyone at this place seems pretty smart.

I can't believe so many areas even give the option. It has been the law down here, and I believe it still is, when going into any store. I haven't seen anyone without a mask in a store since early April.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-15, 21:03

GRR Spartan wrote:I wear a 3 layer mask fabric mask and when I go to the store and will wear it when I go to the doctor  appointment that's been backed up to September.  

Planning on wearing one if there is a HS football season and beyond.

Probably will wear a mask until there is a widely avaiavable vaccine that works.  Could be another 24-36 months.

My opinion is too many people are too anxious to return to pre-COVID and there is never going to be pre-COVID situations ever again.

Wish it wasn't political but we have a POTUS who panders to science deniers.  If you travel by air you might find yourself in a full to capacity aircraft with people who pull their mask below their nose, lower lip or below their chin and the crew can't do jack because the FAA refuses to require wearing a mask.  That's because the POTUS refuses to give the FAA the power of an Executive Order requiring masks.

I was entering a Costco on the East side of GR and saw a woman refuse to wear a mask because Costco requiring one "Violated her Constitutional Rights".  The greeter held her ground.  As she turned towards me I told the offended woman to read her Costco membership.  Agreeing to be a member takes away some of her "rights".
America is a stupid country.

Luckily, East Lansing folks seem to be adhering to the mask requirement quite rigidly.

Like you, I'm gonna wear one until there is a vaccine and probably for a while after, 'cause I'm not gonna trust the vaccine. I'm kind of an introverted homebody so that helps.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-15, 21:23

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:I wore a mask today when I went into a shop. Everyone in there was wearing one and it wasn’t a big deal but everyone at this place seems pretty smart.

I can't believe so many areas even give the option. It has been the law down here, and I believe it still is, when going into any store. I haven't seen anyone without a mask in a store since early April.

It’s not even that big of a deal. I forget I have it on at points. I bought a coffee the other day. A nice hot fresh coffee and when they handed it to me I was going to take a sip and was like oh wait I can’t I have a mask on.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-15, 21:28

Just saw on cnn likelihood someone could spread covid without mask 17.4% with mask 3.1%. Not perfect but that’s a considerable level of mitigation. This is why I wear a mask.
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Post by StylesGShmooth on 2020-06-15, 21:48

I can't even discuss it with people anymore. Humans have been wearing masks to help stem the spread of air born communicable diseases for literally centuries. Also, I've grown exhausted of explaining that masks are more to protect others from you not the other way around. At this stage people are either really really ignorant and/or really really selfish, either way I don't care to have a conversation with them. Can't believe there's actually an argument about this.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2020-06-15, 22:50

This is my problem I guess with it Styles. If it had been framed from the beginning as "this is a tool that will help us open the economy", you would have almost zero resistance. 10% maybe. Instead it got latched onto as "something that protects you, not me" and/or a political statement that people were going to run with because "it protects you, not me" and we have roughly 30-35% of folks who are acting accordingly. We fucked the messaging up, whether it was to protect PPE for essential workers, or because we didn't know the science or whatever. But we've essentially known since early April (2 weeks after it started) that BOTH parties wearing a mask would do a damn fine job of preventing transmission.

I still love that idiots are passing around "Sweden" as some sort of virus utopia because they decided against lockdowns. Yeah they also don't have the same % of selfish assholes that we do, and by and large they trust their leaders. Fuck I hate this country sometimes.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-15, 23:18

Sweden has the 7th highest death rate per capita in the world. They are the 90th most populated country, but 25th in total cases and 16th in total deaths.

Doesn't sound like the lack of a lockdown worked very well for them to me.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-16, 06:15

The one thing that we all can agree on is that if we didn't test anyone, our number of positive tests would be low.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2020-06-16, 08:03

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:I wore a mask today when I went into a shop. Everyone in there was wearing one and it wasn’t a big deal but everyone at this place seems pretty smart.

I can't believe so many areas even give the option. It has been the law down here, and I believe it still is, when going into any store. I haven't seen anyone without a mask in a store since early April.

I think it’s the law here too but that doesn’t mean there’s anyone that’s enforcing it. There are always a couple of people not wearing a mask at the local grocer which is mildly annoying. They never strike me as well read folk.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-06-16, 08:30

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

I can't believe so many areas even give the option. It has been the law down here, and I believe it still is, when going into any store. I haven't seen anyone without a mask in a store since early April.

I think it’s the law here too but that doesn’t mean there’s anyone that’s enforcing it. There are always a couple of people not wearing a mask at the local grocer which is mildly annoying. They never strike me as well read folk.



The police can't really be on guard at stores to enforce it, but it should be up to the stores to deny entry. I saw a Publix worker stop an older lady from entering the other day, but I think it was a genuine mistake on her part, as when he asked if she had a mask, she reached to her face saying "it's right h---" and then stopped herself as she realized she left it in the car. That's the only time I've ever seen anyone try to walk into a place without a mask. People not covering their nose is a different story, and I want to do a three stooges nose slap on them, but that would involve touching.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2020-06-16, 08:53

Yeah I think after what happened in flint when this all started the stores probably said, yeah we’ll put up signs and we’ll have a guy there acting like they’re enforcing it but they aren’t really doing anything about it. At first everyone had masks and now there are more and lore every trip that dont.
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Post by NigelUno on 2020-06-16, 09:08

Can't wait to see how many people at Trump's rally in Tulsa have masks on.

There must be a lot of internal discussion about handing out masks with Trump/Pence 2020 on them.
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Post by Jake from State Farm on 2020-06-16, 10:35

NigelUno wrote:Can't wait to see how many people at Trump's rally in Tulsa have masks on.

There must be a lot of internal discussion about handing out masks with Trump/Pence 2020 on them.

Probably lasted for all of two seconds. Ummm, that would be a no.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-16, 12:13

NigelUno wrote:Can't wait to see how many people at Trump's rally in Tulsa have masks on.

There must be a lot of internal discussion about handing out masks with Trump/Pence 2020 on them.
I'd vote for either the avg IQ of a MAGA patriot or "White Power".
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-17, 08:14

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Post by Cameron on 2020-06-17, 10:47

steveschneider wrote:Some good old American Toxic Masculinity

https://twitter.com/aubrey_huff/status/1273018665391099904?s=21

Aubrey Huff is anti mask? What about Richie Sexson? Will Matt Stairs wear a mask?

Don't care...
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-17, 11:22

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:Some good old American Toxic Masculinity

https://twitter.com/aubrey_huff/status/1273018665391099904?s=21

Aubrey Huff is anti mask? What about Richie Sexson? Will Matt Stairs wear a mask?

Don't care...

To be honest I don't even know who Aubrey Huff is or anyone that you listed. Are they all part of Joe Rogan's crew?
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 2020-06-17, 11:31

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Aubrey Huff is anti mask? What about Richie Sexson? Will Matt Stairs wear a mask?

Don't care...

To be honest I don't even know who Aubrey Huff is or anyone that you listed. Are they all part of Joe Rogan's crew?

You're a baseball guy and you don't know who Aubrey Huff is?

What hope is there for the rest of us?
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on 2020-06-17, 11:36

Huff is notoriously off the rails. He was disinvited to a SF Giants alumni event a few months back for some Twitter rants.

Edit. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/tweets-keep-ex-san-francisco-giant-aubrey-huff-guest-list-n1137831
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Post by Cameron on 2020-06-17, 12:00

Floyd Robertson wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

To be honest I don't even know who Aubrey Huff is or anyone that you listed. Are they all part of Joe Rogan's crew?

You're a baseball guy and you don't know who Aubrey Huff is?

What hope is there for the rest of us?

Or Richie Sexson. Or professional hitter Matt Stairs. Fucking steve...
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-17, 12:06

Floyd Robertson wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

To be honest I don't even know who Aubrey Huff is or anyone that you listed. Are they all part of Joe Rogan's crew?

You're a baseball guy and you don't know who Aubrey Huff is?

What hope is there for the rest of us?

I actually remember Matt Stairs. Most of those guys were in the NL and from the 00's. My memory isn't so sharp on those dudes.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-06-17, 12:16

steveschneider wrote:Some good old American Toxic Masculinity

https://twitter.com/aubrey_huff/status/1273018665391099904?s=21
can you imagine being as stupid as this guy?

I like how he spent 2 minutes talking about coronavirus then condescendingly said "seems like everyone is an expert on the Coronavirus". Let's talk about Masks baby 502811600
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-17, 12:22

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
steveschneider wrote:Some good old American Toxic Masculinity

https://twitter.com/aubrey_huff/status/1273018665391099904?s=21
can you imagine being as stupid as this guy?

I like how he spent 2 minutes talking about coronavirus then condescendingly said "seems like everyone is an expert on the Coronavirus". Let's talk about Masks baby 502811600

One thing he's an expert on is sticking up for his own personal freedumbs.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-06-17, 15:52

Looks like this guy knows Jesus and the truth

https://twitter.com/aubrey_huff/status/1273310893133066241?s=21

This Aubrey Huff guy is stupid.
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Post by Rocinante on 2020-06-17, 16:25

Isn’t he a baseball player?
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