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The 2020 Presidential campaign.

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Post by Floyd Robertson on 2020-08-28, 11:10

[tw]1299198518905786373[/tw]
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-08-28, 11:44

Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1299198518905786373[/tw]


Another example of how the mainstream media continues to cheerlead for Trump or something like that.
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Post by Rocinante on 2020-08-28, 11:50

So Democrats are wringing their hands because of a NYT story saying that the unrest in Kenosha could be the catalyst for Wisconsin to go trump again. Kellyann on her way out the door says the more unrest the better for Trump. Democrats need to lean harder into support for the protests or all left leaning people will see is Republicans calling them thugs, while cops and white vigilantes shoot them in the streets. That will lead to a loss of voter enthusiasm and will degrade turnout and Trump will win.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 11:51

Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1299198518905786373[/tw]

I watched it and it's impressive, but it's depressing to realize what he's saying doesn't even matter to the RNC or Trump's cult. I saw a quote this morning that said vote like your life and country depended on it. It's going to take a lot of work to get out of this mess.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 12:19

Rocinante wrote:So Democrats are wringing their hands because of a NYT story saying that the unrest in Kenosha could be the catalyst for Wisconsin to go trump again. Kellyann on her way out the door says the more unrest the better for Trump. Democrats need to lean harder into support for the protests or all left leaning people will see is Republicans calling them thugs, while cops and white vigilantes shoot them in the streets. That will lead to a loss of voter enthusiasm and will degrade turnout and Trump will win.

There is a tiny protest area in Portland and the right has made it look like a war zone with crazy left wingers trying to create chaos and disorder. Honestly, I just don't get the need for these protests after sunset. It's pretty much when the looting, destruction, violence and 24/7 cable news networks run the stuff on a loop. It's not helping the cause one bit. Will it tilt people on the fence towards red? Probably but how much no one can say. I suspect if it wasn't the protests they'd probably find something else to get them to lean red.

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Post by Rocinante on 2020-08-28, 12:30

“ Honestly, I just don't get the need for these protests after sunset.”

Exactly what I’m talking about. Thanks for illustrating it.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-08-28, 13:04

Rocinante wrote:So Democrats are wringing their hands because of a NYT story saying that the unrest in Kenosha could be the catalyst for Wisconsin to go trump again. Kellyann on her way out the door says the more unrest the better for Trump. Democrats need to lean harder into support for the protests or all left leaning people will see is Republicans calling them thugs, while cops and white vigilantes shoot them in the streets. That will lead to a loss of voter enthusiasm and will degrade turnout and Trump will win.

Both are true. While it reprehensible, it’s fairly accurate.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 13:08

Rocinante wrote:“ Honestly, I just don't get the need for these protests after sunset.”

Exactly what I’m talking about. Thanks for illustrating it.

And don't leave out the 'It's not helping the cause one bit'. I think it would be a huge political mistake to lean in and support the havoc and destruction going on at night.

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Post by Rocinante on 2020-08-28, 13:11

steveschneider wrote:
Rocinante wrote:“ Honestly, I just don't get the need for these protests after sunset.”

Exactly what I’m talking about. Thanks for illustrating it.

And don't leave out the 'It's not helping the cause one bit'. I think it would be a huge political mistake to lean in and support the havoc and destruction going on at night.


It’s weird that you keep proving my point.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-08-28, 13:42

Roc, I think the idea here is “big picture”. It’s a war that has to be fought (social and systemic racism or injustice). This election is so important. There’s a real opportunity to control all three branches of government. Controlling them gives a huge advantage to make those corrections. We need every single vote from every demographic. Go to war with weapons. But make sure you have them first. It’s a fine line, ya might have to swallow your pride briefly, but worth the wait. This election is going to be close. The most fragile demographic in my opinion is suburban whites. We need them. And they’re a fickle group.
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-08-28, 13:45

Rocinante wrote:So Democrats are wringing their hands because of a NYT story saying that the unrest in Kenosha could be the catalyst for Wisconsin to go trump again. Kellyann on her way out the door says the more unrest the better for Trump. Democrats need to lean harder into support for the protests or all left leaning people will see is Republicans calling them thugs, while cops and white vigilantes shoot them in the streets. That will lead to a loss of voter enthusiasm and will degrade turnout and Trump will win.
The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 10 4113017228 - he's gonna win regardless.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 13:50

Rocinante wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

And don't leave out the 'It's not helping the cause one bit'. I think it would be a huge political mistake to lean in and support the havoc and destruction going on at night.


It’s weird that you keep proving my point.

I thought Kamala had a good plan for the protestors yesterday. Vote and work to fix the problems together.
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Post by Floyd Robertson on 2020-08-28, 13:55

[tw]1299403558757031947[/tw]

Wait until Trump hears about this. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 10 502811600
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Post by Rocinante on 2020-08-28, 14:30

kingstonlake wrote:Roc, I think the idea here is “big picture”. It’s a war that has to be fought (social and systemic racism or injustice). This election is so important. There’s a real opportunity to control all three branches of government. Controlling them gives a huge advantage to make those corrections. We need every single vote from every demographic. Go to war with weapons. But make sure you have them first. It’s a fine line, ya might have to swallow your pride briefly, but worth the wait. This election is going to be close. The most fragile demographic in my opinion is suburban whites. We need them. And they’re a fickle group.

You seem to suggest I’m being emotional or impulsive, my argument is 100% practical. Say you maybe do ok with suburban women but you lose the black vote in the process. Latinx folks are increasingly turning to the right. Even young people. We’re suppose to pretend this has nothing to do with the left going soft on the message? By trying to be everything to everyone, they will be nothing to nobody.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-08-28, 14:37

Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1299403558757031947[/tw]

Wait until Trump hears about this. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 10 502811600


He needed over 32 million to bring the average up to the DNC.

The guy that is always talking about ratings this and ratings that, has lost the ratings battle. Minus well hang it up now.

Of course, I fully expect him to claim a ratings victory, by using Fox only or something.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 14:42

Rocinante wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:Roc, I think the idea here is “big picture”. It’s a war that has to be fought (social and systemic racism or injustice). This election is so important. There’s a real opportunity to control all three branches of government. Controlling them gives a huge advantage to make those corrections. We need every single vote from every demographic. Go to war with weapons. But make sure you have them first. It’s a fine line, ya might have to swallow your pride briefly, but worth the wait. This election is going to be close. The most fragile demographic in my opinion is suburban whites. We need them. And they’re a fickle group.

You seem to suggest I’m being emotional or impulsive, my argument is 100% practical. Say you maybe do ok with suburban women but you lose the black vote in the process. Latinx folks are increasingly turning to the right. Even young people. We’re suppose to pretend this has nothing to do with the left going soft on the message? By trying to be everything to everyone, they will be nothing to nobody.

I think the real problem is there's too much negativity on the left. They rip their own party and candidate to pieces and over time I think that's taken it's toll to disenfranchise the young.

Everyone hated Hillary. Everyone hates Biden. Everyone hates Pelosi. My inlaws are finding it unbearable to vote for Biden. My brother in law keeps saying if it wasn't for Trump he wouldn't do it.

Everyone wants to come off like they are going to plug their nose and vote for the dem. I see shit everyday on FB in my circle ripping on dems. Today I saw a lefty ripping Biden for buying out the 'Make America Great Again' domain name. Everyone loves AOC and feels like the big money is keeping her off to the side...

You see this shit constantly out there every day. I think that's a big problem for the party.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-08-28, 14:48

As far as Kenosha stuff hurting Biden's chances in Wisconsin, Jacob Blake's father had a powerful interview on CNN this morning. Said that talking to Biden really calmed him down. Kamala, too. Said it was like talking to an uncle, and Kamala was like talking to a sister. Trump has not attempted to reach out to him, apparently. Don't be surprised if he ends up being in an ad or otherwise campaigning, at least in Wisconsin.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-08-28, 14:49

Rocinante wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:Roc, I think the idea here is “big picture”. It’s a war that has to be fought (social and systemic racism or injustice). This election is so important. There’s a real opportunity to control all three branches of government. Controlling them gives a huge advantage to make those corrections. We need every single vote from every demographic. Go to war with weapons. But make sure you have them first. It’s a fine line, ya might have to swallow your pride briefly, but worth the wait. This election is going to be close. The most fragile demographic in my opinion is suburban whites. We need them. And they’re a fickle group.

You seem to suggest I’m being emotional or impulsive, my argument is 100% practical. Say you maybe do ok with suburban women but you lose the black vote in the process. Latinx folks are increasingly turning to the right. Even young people. We’re suppose to pretend this has nothing to do with the left going soft on the message? By trying to be everything to everyone, they will be nothing to nobody.

Lol, Biden isn’t losing the black vote. Of all the demos you mentioned the biggest prize is white moderates or independents. More specifically white suburban women. Shifting that demographic from 2016 is the lynchpin to this election. Like it or not they’re fickle. Especially on this topic.
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Post by Rocinante on 2020-08-28, 14:58

Lol sounds a lot like what folks were saying in 2016.

The bipartisan report on Russian interference in 2016 explicitly says that the “impeachment hoax” narrative from the campaign is itself a Russian disinformation strategy. The GOP has openly (for anyone who looks and not even that closely) embraced the Russian disinformation platform. Just listen to their speeches at the convention. Their message, driven by Russia, is to discourage people from voting. You say joe Biden won’t lose the black vote as if it’s a given! What does it take for you and people like you to understand that it’s not a given. The Russians proved it once. They are doing it again. It only takes a few thousand votes in strategic places to turn the election. Democrats have to hold and energize the base. Worry about suburban women afterward.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-08-28, 15:06

Rocinante wrote:Lol sounds a lot like what folks were saying in 2016.

The bipartisan report on Russian interference in 2016 explicitly says that the “impeachment hoax” narrative from the campaign is itself a Russian disinformation strategy. The GOP has openly (for anyone who looks and not even that closely) embraced the Russian disinformation platform. Just listen to their speeches at the convention. Their message, driven by Russia, is to discourage people from voting. You say joe Biden won’t lose the black vote as if it’s a given! What does it take for you and people like you to understand that it’s not a given. The Russians proved it once. They are doing it again. It only takes a few thousand votes in strategic places to turn the election. Democrats have to hold and energize the base. Worry about suburban women afterward.

You’re putting the cart before the horse. Win the election. Then spend the next four years being romantic and idealistic. Mid terms showed us what’s available. The primaries showed us what we have.
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Post by Rocinante on 2020-08-28, 15:40

I’m talking about winning the election. You know people deciding it’s not worth their time to vote happens, right?
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Post by Robert J Sakimano on 2020-08-28, 15:41

steveschneider wrote:
Rocinante wrote:

You seem to suggest I’m being emotional or impulsive, my argument is 100% practical. Say you maybe do ok with suburban women but you lose the black vote in the process.  Latinx folks are increasingly turning to the right.  Even young people.  We’re suppose to pretend this has nothing to do with the left going soft on the message?  By trying to be everything to everyone, they will be nothing to nobody.  

I think the real problem is there's too much negativity on the left. They rip their own party and candidate to pieces and over time I think that's taken it's toll to disenfranchise the young.

Everyone hated Hillary. Everyone hates Biden. Everyone hates Pelosi.
My inlaws are finding it unbearable to vote for Biden. My brother in law keeps saying if it wasn't for Trump he wouldn't do it.

Everyone wants to come off like they are going to plug their nose and vote for the dem. I see shit everyday on FB in my circle ripping on dems. Today I saw a lefty ripping Biden for buying out the 'Make America Great Again' domain name. Everyone loves AOC and feels like the big money is keeping her off to the side...

You see this shit constantly out there every day. I think that's a big problem for the party.
I adore all three of these people.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 16:02

[tw]1299190643277864960?s=21[/tw]

Never has a convention speech resonated with me like this one. If people can’t understand this message and can’t come together to vote out Trump then so be it.
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Post by Rocinante on 2020-08-28, 16:27

The fucking point you dolts is exactly what you’re talking about. The problem isn’t too much negativity on the left, steve, it’s that there are organized forces exploiting natural and healthy divisions to suppress the vote through propaganda and misinformation. Don’t be mad at people for being pissed off to the pint of not voting. Be mad at the republicans for embracing and happily benefiting from the tools of oppressive regimes. Be mad that our government has known the potential exploitive and underhandedly manipulative power do the internet for years now and has done nothing about it. There are people who have figured out how to fan the flames of division and exploit natural human weakness. And they are actively doing it to undermine the election and it could very well work again. Because people hate to admit they’ve been manipulated, and they will go out of their way after trump gets re-elected to let the RNC, Russia, and Trump off the hook so that they don’t look like fucking idiots.

Which they’re not. They’re human. And humans, especially those who don’t know what’s happening, can pretty easily be controlled.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 16:39

Rocinante wrote:The fucking point you dolts is exactly what you’re talking about. The problem isn’t too much negativity on the left, steve, it’s that there are organized forces exploiting natural and healthy divisions to suppress the vote through propaganda and misinformation. Don’t be mad at people for being pissed off to the pint of not voting. Be mad at the republicans for embracing and happily benefiting from the tools of oppressive regimes. Be mad that our government has known the potential exploitive and underhandedly manipulative power do the internet for years now and has done nothing about it. There are people who have figured out how to fan the flames of division and exploit natural human weakness. And they are actively doing it to undermine the election and it could very well work again. Because people hate to admit they’ve been manipulated, and they will go out of their way after trump gets re-elected to let the RNC, Russia, and Trump off the hook so that they don’t look like fucking idiots.

Which they’re not. They’re human. And humans, especially those who don’t know what’s happening, can pretty easily be controlled.

I've come to just accept this is who we are as lefties. I don't think this is anything new. In 68 the woke left couldn't handle Humphrey, so they went and raised hell in Chicago causing all sorts of disgusting violence on tv and then the country went on and elected Nixon.

I posted it a while back but a strategist from New Orleans said that he was an organizer against David Duke's campaigns and said a bunch of lefties sat it out because the candidate was a "corpratist". Liberal guilt, purity and forming circular firing squads on our selves is a real problem.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-08-28, 17:19

Roc

Black

People

Are

Not

Sitting

This

One

Out

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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-08-28, 17:22

Biden will NOT lose the black vote. As in getting less of the black vote than Trump.

The question, as it was in 2016, is the turnout of the black vote. It is tough to expect a white candidate to get Obama-like turnout from blacks, but I think there are several strong factors that Biden has going for him that Hillary didn't:

- Biden is inexplicably tied to Obama as his VP

- Biden's own VP candidate is black

- Trump is not only racist, but effectively encourages racism. As much as we can say this was the case 4 years ago, he's really kicked up the race-baiting rhetoric.

- The recent unrest may have blacks more politically engaged than in quite a long time. The flip side is that they MAY see Biden as just another old white guy, part of the establishment that is systemically racist. But I hope that Trump being racist outweighs Biden being establishment.

As for a Latins, a recent poll from earlier this month has Trump down 4% from 2016, while also having Biden up 5% since May. But as with blacks, turnout is king.
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Post by GRR Spartan on 2020-08-28, 17:31

Damn Steve, I hope your inlaws are independently wealthy and don't have to depend on Social Security and Medicare or are planning to both die in the next 48-60 months since refusing to vote for Joe Biden takes away their best chance of keeping SS in some semblance of what exists today.

My own opinion is there are a lot of folks like your inlaws who quietly like a lot about Trump but are unwilling to say they'll vote for him.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2020-08-28, 17:37

steveschneider wrote:
Rocinante wrote:The fucking point you dolts is exactly what you’re talking about. The problem isn’t too much negativity on the left, steve, it’s that there are organized forces exploiting natural and healthy divisions to suppress the vote through propaganda and misinformation. Don’t be mad at people for being pissed off to the pint of not voting. Be mad at the republicans for embracing and happily benefiting from the tools of oppressive regimes. Be mad that our government has known the potential exploitive and underhandedly manipulative power do the internet for years now and has done nothing about it. There are people who have figured out how to fan the flames of division and exploit natural human weakness. And they are actively doing it to undermine the election and it could very well work again. Because people hate to admit they’ve been manipulated, and they will go out of their way after trump gets re-elected to let the RNC, Russia, and Trump off the hook so that they don’t look like fucking idiots.

Which they’re not. They’re human. And humans, especially those who don’t know what’s happening, can pretty easily be controlled.

I've come to just accept this is who we are as lefties. I don't think this is anything new. In 68 the woke left couldn't handle Humphrey, so they went and raised hell in Chicago causing all sorts of disgusting violence on tv and then the country went on and elected Nixon.


I...... uh....

I can’t with this steve it’s embarrassing please delete it and I’ll delete my reply thank you.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 17:44

Biden is not going to lose the black vote or the latino vote.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 17:46

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I've come to just accept this is who we are as lefties. I don't think this is anything new. In 68 the woke left couldn't handle Humphrey, so they went and raised hell in Chicago causing all sorts of disgusting violence on tv and then the country went on and elected Nixon.


I...... uh....

I can’t with this steve it’s embarrassing please delete it and I’ll delete my reply thank you.

Shut up and quit wasting my time. Go hit a golf ball on a course full of goose shit.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-08-28, 17:53

steveschneider wrote:
Rocinante wrote:

You seem to suggest I’m being emotional or impulsive, my argument is 100% practical. Say you maybe do ok with suburban women but you lose the black vote in the process.  Latinx folks are increasingly turning to the right.  Even young people.  We’re suppose to pretend this has nothing to do with the left going soft on the message?  By trying to be everything to everyone, they will be nothing to nobody.  

I think the real problem is there's too much negativity on the left. They rip their own party and candidate to pieces and over time I think that's taken it's toll to disenfranchise the young.

Everyone hated Hillary. Everyone hates Biden. Everyone hates Pelosi. My inlaws are finding it unbearable to vote for Biden. My brother in law keeps saying if it wasn't for Trump he wouldn't do it.

Everyone wants to come off like they are going to plug their nose and vote for the dem. I see shit everyday on FB in my circle ripping on dems. Today I saw a lefty ripping Biden for buying out the 'Make America Great Again' domain name. Everyone loves AOC and feels like the big money is keeping her off to the side...

You see this shit constantly out there every day. I think that's a big problem for the party.
The people you know sound much smarter than you.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 17:56

GRR Spartan wrote:Damn Steve, I hope your inlaws are independently wealthy and don't have to depend on Social Security and Medicare or are planning to both die in the next 48-60 months since refusing to vote for Joe Biden takes away their best chance of keeping SS in some semblance of what exists today.

My own opinion is there are a lot of folks like your inlaws who quietly like a lot about Trump but are unwilling to say they'll vote for him.

They'll come around and vote for Biden pretty convinced of it but they don't like him They will plug their nose and do it. Plus they live in Massachusetts which Biden should win easily.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 17:56

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I think the real problem is there's too much negativity on the left. They rip their own party and candidate to pieces and over time I think that's taken it's toll to disenfranchise the young.

Everyone hated Hillary. Everyone hates Biden. Everyone hates Pelosi. My inlaws are finding it unbearable to vote for Biden. My brother in law keeps saying if it wasn't for Trump he wouldn't do it.

Everyone wants to come off like they are going to plug their nose and vote for the dem. I see shit everyday on FB in my circle ripping on dems. Today I saw a lefty ripping Biden for buying out the 'Make America Great Again' domain name. Everyone loves AOC and feels like the big money is keeping her off to the side...

You see this shit constantly out there every day. I think that's a big problem for the party.
The people you know sound much smarter than you.

Heh. Good one.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2020-08-28, 18:11

steveschneider wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I...... uh....

I can’t with this steve it’s embarrassing please delete it and I’ll delete my reply thank you.

Shut up and quit wasting my time. Go hit a golf ball on a course full of goose shit.

Steve, everything you wrote in that post is incorrect. Please, I’m begging you, delete it. You have stained the site and some kid is going to google it and write what you wrote in their high school history paper because they will lack the context about you that we have, then they’ll get an F and become a trump voter. That’ll be on your head forever. I beg you, it is so offensively wrong that the only rectifying it is deleting it. Please.
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Post by steveschneider on 2020-08-28, 19:28

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

Shut up and quit wasting my time. Go hit a golf ball on a course full of goose shit.

Steve, everything you wrote in that post is incorrect. Please, I’m begging you, delete it. You have stained the site and some kid is going to google it and write what you wrote in their high school history paper because they will lack the context about you that we have, then they’ll get an F and become a trump voter. That’ll be on your head forever. I beg you, it is so offensively wrong that the only rectifying it is deleting it. Please.

It’s my opinion and if you don’t like it tough shit.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on 2020-08-28, 19:53

steveschneider wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I...... uh....

I can’t with this steve it’s embarrassing please delete it and I’ll delete my reply thank you.

Shut up and quit wasting my time. Go hit a golf ball on a course full of goose shit.

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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on 2020-08-28, 19:54

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

Shut up and quit wasting my time. Go hit a golf ball on a course full of goose shit.

Steve, everything you wrote in that post is incorrect. Please, I’m begging you, delete it. You have stained the site and some kid is going to google it and write what you wrote in their high school history paper because they will lack the context about you that we have, then they’ll get an F and become a trump voter. That’ll be on your head forever. I beg you, it is so offensively wrong that the only rectifying it is deleting it. Please.

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Post by Jake from State Farm on 2020-08-28, 20:04

steveschneider wrote:
Rocinante wrote:So Democrats are wringing their hands because of a NYT story saying that the unrest in Kenosha could be the catalyst for Wisconsin to go trump again. Kellyann on her way out the door says the more unrest the better for Trump.  Democrats need to lean harder into support for the protests or all left leaning people will see is Republicans calling them thugs, while cops and white vigilantes shoot them in the streets. That will lead to a loss of voter enthusiasm and will degrade turnout and Trump will win.  



There is a tiny protest area in Portland and the right has made it look like a war zone with crazy left wingers trying to create chaos and disorder. Honestly, I just don't get the need for these protests after sunset. It's pretty much when the looting, destruction, violence and 24/7 cable news networks run the stuff on a loop. It's not helping the cause one bit. Will it tilt people on the fence towards red? Probably but how much no one can say. I suspect if it wasn't the protests they'd probably find something else to get them to lean red.


From what I've heard it's the crazy right wingers from the east side of the state making the trek to Portland in order to stir things up. The press is being pretty quiet about that aspect.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos on 2020-08-28, 20:14

steveschneider wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Steve, everything you wrote in that post is incorrect. Please, I’m begging you, delete it. You have stained the site and some kid is going to google it and write what you wrote in their high school history paper because they will lack the context about you that we have, then they’ll get an F and become a trump voter. That’ll be on your head forever. I beg you, it is so offensively wrong that the only rectifying it is deleting it. Please.

It’s my opinion and if you don’t like it tough shit.

Steve it’s not an opinion. It’s factually wrong. Please. If you continue to refuse that’s your choice I guess but our only recourse will be to shut the entire swill down. That’s the only way. Then that’ll be on your head while you try to sleep too.

Please. I’ll do whatever you want. Just delete it.
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