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Post by The Pantry on 2020-09-12, 05:19

Would you be comfortable with even one Biden/Trump debate?
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 10:05

Yes, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the Trump campaign to request that the first debate be moved up.
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Post by Jake from State Farm on 2020-09-12, 10:57

Cameron wrote:Yes, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the Trump campaign to request that the first debate be moved up.

Before Trump catches the covid from attending all his rallies with no one wearing a mask?
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 11:03

Jake from State Farm wrote:
Cameron wrote:Yes, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the Trump campaign to request that the first debate be moved up.

Before Trump catches the covid from attending all his rallies with no one wearing a mask?
That and before people start mailing in their ballots.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 11:03

Cameron wrote:Yes, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the Trump campaign to request that the first debate be moved up.

Why?

Nevermind, you answered above. An early debate makes no difference to mail in votes.


Last edited by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 11:05; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 11:05

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:Yes, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the Trump campaign to request that the first debate be moved up.

Why?
I don't think it's unreasonable to want people to have the chance to see a debate before mailing in their ballots. The candidates have been nominated, running mates selected, no reason a debate can't happen now.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 11:07

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Why?
I don't think it's unreasonable to want people to have the chance to see a debate before mailing in their ballots. The candidates have been nominated, running mates selected, no reason a debate can't happen now.

People who choose to mail in therir votes before a debate obviously don't care. Those who do can wait.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 11:10

Why do you oppose moving the first debate up?
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 11:13

Cameron wrote:Why do you oppose moving the first debate up?

I don't have an opinion either way. When a debate is held is irrelevant to people who choose to vote before any debates. They're not being forced to do it.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 11:14

I'm sure there's a lot of people who'd like to see his tax returns, DNA, and deposition under oath before the election.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-09-12, 11:22

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Why?
I don't think it's unreasonable to want people to have the chance to see a debate before mailing in their ballots. The candidates have been nominated, running mates selected, no reason a debate can't happen now.


Who's stopping them from waiting until the debate(s) to mail in their ballots? That's such a nonsense talking point.

Why not move them up? Why should they be? The dates were decided upon and agreed to, and on a schedule to similar to past elections.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 11:24

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:Why do you oppose moving the first debate up?

I don't have an opinion either way. When a debate is held is irrelevant to people who choose to vote before any debates. They're not being forced to do it.
If you don't care, then why are you arguing with me?
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 11:28

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:
I don't think it's unreasonable to want people to have the chance to see a debate before mailing in their ballots. The candidates have been nominated, running mates selected, no reason a debate can't happen now.


Who's stopping them from waiting until the debate(s) to mail in their ballots?  That's such a nonsense talking point.

Why not move them up?  Why should they be?  The dates were decided upon and agreed to, and on a schedule to similar to past elections.  
Yes, and 2020 is a year and an election cycle exactly like any other.

Look, it's not like this is an issue that's near and dear to my heart. It just strikes me as an eminently reasonable proposition, which is rare for the Trump campaign. Of course people can wait to mail their ballots, but with the delays in the mail system, I also wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to get their ballot posted ASAP. I perceive moving up the first debate as a way to take these two concerns (wanting to see a debate before choosing and wanting to get your ballot mailed in) out of competition with each other, and I don't see any real downside.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 11:29

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I don't have an opinion either way. When a debate is held is irrelevant to people who choose to vote before any debates. They're not being forced to do it.
If you don't care, then why are you arguing with me?

I'm not. Are people being forced to mail in votes before a debate? To the best of my knowledge they have every opportunity to wait for a debate before mailing in a ballot. Or personally delivering it.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 11:31

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:
If you don't care, then why are you arguing with me?

I'm not. Are people being forced to mail in votes before a debate? To the best of my knowledge they have every opportunity to wait for a debate before mailing in a ballot. Or personally delivering it.
Kinda feels like you are.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 11:37

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I'm not. Are people being forced to mail in votes before a debate? To the best of my knowledge they have every opportunity to wait for a debate before mailing in a ballot. Or personally delivering it.
Kinda feels like you are.

It's just ironic that the campaign that's spent virtually of it's cash to hide tax returns, delay depositions, DNA testing, sue as many states as possible, fight early voting, encourage election fraud, and engage in every Russian election propaganda strategy we were warned about, is now whining about when debates should happen because they feel having them early will harm the opponent. And people are buying in.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 11:39

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:
Kinda feels like you are.

It's just ironic that the campaign that's spent virtually of it's cash to hide tax returns, delay depositions, DNA testing, sue as many states as possible, fight early voting, encourage election fraud, and engage in every Russian election propaganda strategy we were warned about, is now whining about when debates should happen because they feel it will harm the opponent. And people are buying in.
So do you buy the notion that moving the first debate up harms Biden? If so, why? If not, why are you still posting in this thread?
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 11:42

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

It's just ironic that the campaign that's spent virtually of it's cash to hide tax returns, delay depositions, DNA testing, sue as many states as possible, fight early voting, encourage election fraud, and engage in every Russian election propaganda strategy we were warned about, is now whining about when debates should happen because they feel it will harm the opponent. And people are buying in.
So do you buy the notion that moving the first debate up harms Biden? If so, why? If not, why are you still posting in this thread?

Let's cut to the chase here. Cam, you'll get to watch as many debates as you want before you decide to vote or not.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 11:44

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:
So do you buy the notion that moving the first debate up harms Biden? If so, why? If not, why are you still posting in this thread?

Let's cut to the chase here. Cam, you'll get to watch as many debates as you want before you decide to vote or not.
No shit, and I plan on voting in person regardless. Care to answer my question?
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 11:47

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Let's cut to the chase here. Cam, you'll get to watch as many debates as you want before you decide to vote or not.
No shit, and I plan on voting in person regardless. Care to answer my question?

Your question is frankly, dumb. No one is being forced to vote before a debate. If the Trump campaign didn't like the dates, they shouldn't have agreed to them. Think it through Cam.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 11:58

I also think Biden is just as likely to forget his first name because of his age as Trump is to let us know how hot Michael Cohens 15 year old daughter was or drop an N bomb because it's who he is, no matter when a debate is held.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 12:03

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:
No shit, and I plan on voting in person regardless. Care to answer my question?

Your question is frankly, dumb. No one is being forced to vote before a debate. If the Trump campaign didn't like the dates, they shouldn't have agreed to them. Think it through Cam.
My question was a response to whatever inane bullshit you were spewing while staking your non-position. You said that the Trump campaign is "whining about when debates should happen because they feel it will harm the opponent. And people are buying in." So I assume you don't buy the notion that moving the debate up will harm Biden. But you've yet to put forth a reason why the debate should not be moved up. Miami came up with "because that's the way we've always done it," which is always just a stellar and compelling argument. Now, I recognize that he's quite a bit smarter than you, so maybe I'm expecting too much here, but I bet you can come up with something. Failing that, I bet you can manage to shut the fuck up about a topic you allegedly care nothing about.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 12:23

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Your question is frankly, dumb. No one is being forced to vote before a debate. If the Trump campaign didn't like the dates, they shouldn't have agreed to them. Think it through Cam.
My question was a response to whatever inane bullshit you were spewing while staking your non-position. You said that the Trump campaign is "whining about when debates should happen because they feel it will harm the opponent. And people are buying in." So I assume you don't buy the notion that moving the debate up will harm Biden. But you've yet to put forth a reason why the debate should not be moved up. Miami came up with "because that's the way we've always done it," which is always just a stellar and compelling argument. Now, I recognize that he's quite a bit smarter than you, so maybe I'm expecting too much here, but I bet you can come up with something. Failing that, I bet you can manage to shut the fuck up about a topic you allegedly care nothing about.

Yeah I'd be willing to bet Miami is smarter than me. Definitely more in tune with the inner workings as far as stats an elections go. But that doesn't excuse your idiotic take that a debate should be moved up because people should see or hear one before they vote.....when they can. Revel in your stupidity. Call me all the names you want. It doesn't change your dumb take. In fact it cements it.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 12:24

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:
My question was a response to whatever inane bullshit you were spewing while staking your non-position. You said that the Trump campaign is "whining about when debates should happen because they feel it will harm the opponent. And people are buying in." So I assume you don't buy the notion that moving the debate up will harm Biden. But you've yet to put forth a reason why the debate should not be moved up. Miami came up with "because that's the way we've always done it," which is always just a stellar and compelling argument. Now, I recognize that he's quite a bit smarter than you, so maybe I'm expecting too much here, but I bet you can come up with something. Failing that, I bet you can manage to shut the fuck up about a topic you allegedly care nothing about.

Yeah I'd be willing to bet Miami is smarter than me. Definitely more in tune with the inner workings as far as stats an elections go. But that doesn't excuse your idiotic take that a debate should be moved up because people should see or hear one before they vote.....when they can. Revel in your stupidity. Call me all the names you want. It doesn't change your dumb take. In fact it cements it.
Here, dipshit, I'll copy and paste it for you, since I already explained it:

Of course people can wait to mail their ballots, but with the delays in the mail system, I also wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to get their ballot posted ASAP. I perceive moving up the first debate as a way to take these two concerns (wanting to see a debate before choosing and wanting to get your ballot mailed in) out of competition with each other, and I don't see any real downside.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-09-12, 12:31

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Your question is frankly, dumb. No one is being forced to vote before a debate. If the Trump campaign didn't like the dates, they shouldn't have agreed to them. Think it through Cam.
My question was a response to whatever inane bullshit you were spewing while staking your non-position. You said that the Trump campaign is "whining about when debates should happen because they feel it will harm the opponent. And people are buying in." So I assume you don't buy the notion that moving the debate up will harm Biden. But you've yet to put forth a reason why the debate should not be moved up. Miami came up with "because that's the way we've always done it," which is always just a stellar and compelling argument. Now, I recognize that he's quite a bit smarter than you, so maybe I'm expecting too much here, but I bet you can come up with something. Failing that, I bet you can manage to shut the fuck up about a topic you allegedly care nothing about.


No, my primary reason was because the dates were already agreed upon. I only added that about past years to point out that it isn't like it is out of the norm or anything. They could do it in July for all I care about if they agreed to it.

Similarly, I would not be in favor of changing if Biden asked for a second VP debate, or one less Presidental debate, or asked for a different moderator for one, or asked for a change in the rules of one of them.

They both agreed to all of this and all Trump is doing is politicking to make people think Biden is scared. This has ZERO to do with mail in voting.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 12:32

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Yeah I'd be willing to bet Miami is smarter than me. Definitely more in tune with the inner workings as far as stats an elections go. But that doesn't excuse your idiotic take that a debate should be moved up because people should see or hear one before they vote.....when they can. Revel in your stupidity. Call me all the names you want. It doesn't change your dumb take. In fact it cements it.
Here, dipshit, I'll copy and paste it for you, since I already explained it:

Of course people can wait to mail their ballots, but with the delays in the mail system, I also wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to get their ballot posted ASAP. I perceive moving up the first debate as a way to take these two concerns (wanting to see a debate before choosing and wanting to get your ballot mailed in) out of competition with each other, and I don't see any real downside.

Doubling down on your dumb take now? So in your mind, the guy who appointed a political donor to post master general, more than likely committee campaign finance violations, purposefully slowed down the mail, should be able to successfully have the debates moved up because he feels it helps him when all.it really did was motivate people to vote early before debates to ensure their votes are counted. You're an idiot lol..Don't worry Cam, you'll get to see all the debates before you sit the election out.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 12:37

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:
My question was a response to whatever inane bullshit you were spewing while staking your non-position. You said that the Trump campaign is "whining about when debates should happen because they feel it will harm the opponent. And people are buying in." So I assume you don't buy the notion that moving the debate up will harm Biden. But you've yet to put forth a reason why the debate should not be moved up. Miami came up with "because that's the way we've always done it," which is always just a stellar and compelling argument. Now, I recognize that he's quite a bit smarter than you, so maybe I'm expecting too much here, but I bet you can come up with something. Failing that, I bet you can manage to shut the fuck up about a topic you allegedly care nothing about.


No, my primary reason was because the dates were already agreed upon.  I only added that about past years to point out that it isn't like it is out of the norm or anything.  They could do it in July for all I care about if they agreed to it.

Similarly, I would not be in favor of changing if Biden asked for a second VP debate, or one less Presidental debate, or asked for a different moderator for one, or asked for a change in the rules of one of them.  

They both agreed to all of this and all Trump is doing is politicking to make people think Biden is scared.  This has ZERO to do with mail in voting.
The dates were set in October 2019. I think it's fair to say that things have changed slightly since then.


Last edited by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 12:40; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 12:39

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:
Here, dipshit, I'll copy and paste it for you, since I already explained it:

Of course people can wait to mail their ballots, but with the delays in the mail system, I also wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to get their ballot posted ASAP. I perceive moving up the first debate as a way to take these two concerns (wanting to see a debate before choosing and wanting to get your ballot mailed in) out of competition with each other, and I don't see any real downside.

Doubling down on your dumb take now? So in your mind, the guy who appointed a political donor to post master general, more than likely committee campaign finance violations, purposefully slowed down the mail, should be able to successfully have the debates moved up because he feels it helps him when all.it really did was motivate people to vote early before debates to ensure their votes are counted. You're an idiot lol..Don't worry Cam, you'll get  to see all the debates before you sit the election out.
If you could read, you'd know that I in fact never said that he should be able to move the debates up. I simply said that it was not an unreasonable request, and when pressed on the matter, I explained why I thought so.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-09-12, 12:42

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Yeah I'd be willing to bet Miami is smarter than me. Definitely more in tune with the inner workings as far as stats an elections go. But that doesn't excuse your idiotic take that a debate should be moved up because people should see or hear one before they vote.....when they can. Revel in your stupidity. Call me all the names you want. It doesn't change your dumb take. In fact it cements it.
Here, dipshit, I'll copy and paste it for you, since I already explained it:

Of course people can wait to mail their ballots, but with the delays in the mail system, I also wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to get their ballot posted ASAP. I perceive moving up the first debate as a way to take these two concerns (wanting to see a debate before choosing and wanting to get your ballot mailed in) out of competition with each other, and I don't see any real downside.


FWIW, the first debate is Sept 29. That gives 5 weeks to get the mail ballot in.

Also, as of now, NC is the only state to even send then out. About half the states send them out between now and the first debate, most of those late next week. So, with mail problems, people will only get their ballots a week or less before the debate. So the debate isn't even going to cause much of a delay for those that DO want to watch a debate first.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 12:42

Cameron wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:


No, my primary reason was because the dates were already agreed upon.  I only added that about past years to point out that it isn't like it is out of the norm or anything.  They could do it in July for all I care about if they agreed to it.

Similarly, I would not be in favor of changing if Biden asked for a second VP debate, or one less Presidental debate, or asked for a different moderator for one, or asked for a change in the rules of one of them.  

They both agreed to all of this and all Trump is doing is politicking to make people think Biden is scared.  This has ZERO to do with mail in voting.
The dates were set in October 2019. I think it's fair to say that things have changed slightly since then.

They agreed to the dates in June. Well aware states were sending out ballots.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on 2020-09-12, 12:43

Cameron wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:


No, my primary reason was because the dates were already agreed upon.  I only added that about past years to point out that it isn't like it is out of the norm or anything.  They could do it in July for all I care about if they agreed to it.

Similarly, I would not be in favor of changing if Biden asked for a second VP debate, or one less Presidental debate, or asked for a different moderator for one, or asked for a change in the rules of one of them.  

They both agreed to all of this and all Trump is doing is politicking to make people think Biden is scared.  This has ZERO to do with mail in voting.
The dates were set in October 2019. I think it's fair to say that things have changed slightly since then.


That still doesn't explain why they should be moved.
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 12:44

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:
The dates were set in October 2019. I think it's fair to say that things have changed slightly since then.

They agreed to the dates in June. Well aware states were sending  out ballots.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/us/politics/when-are-the-2020-presidential-debates.html

October 11, 2019
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 12:45

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:
The dates were set in October 2019. I think it's fair to say that things have changed slightly since then.


That still doesn't explain why they should be moved.
God damn, do I have to do this with you too now?

I perceive moving up the first debate as a way to take these two concerns (wanting to see a debate before choosing and wanting to get your ballot mailed in) out of competition with each other, and I don't see any real downside.


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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 12:48

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:
Here, dipshit, I'll copy and paste it for you, since I already explained it:

Of course people can wait to mail their ballots, but with the delays in the mail system, I also wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to get their ballot posted ASAP. I perceive moving up the first debate as a way to take these two concerns (wanting to see a debate before choosing and wanting to get your ballot mailed in) out of competition with each other, and I don't see any real downside.


FWIW, the first debate is Sept 29.  That gives 5 weeks to get the mail ballot in.

Also, as of now, NC is the only state to even send then out.  About half the states send them out between now and the first debate, most of those late next week.  So, with mail problems, people will only get their ballots a week or less before the debate.  So the debate isn't even going to cause much of a delay for those that DO want to watch a debate first.
See, this I can work with. If the true lag time is only about a week, keeping the established dates is perfectly reasonable.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 13:48

Cameron wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:


FWIW, the first debate is Sept 29.  That gives 5 weeks to get the mail ballot in.

Also, as of now, NC is the only state to even send then out.  About half the states send them out between now and the first debate, most of those late next week.  So, with mail problems, people will only get their ballots a week or less before the debate.  So the debate isn't even going to cause much of a delay for those that DO want to watch a debate first.
See, this I can work with. If the true lag time is only about a week, keeping the established dates is perfectly reasonable.

Yeah, because knowing that only North Carolina is sending ballots in, knowing Sept 30th to November 3rd is 34 days, and no one is forced to mailing a ballot before a debate was really tough. Rolling Eyes
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Post by Cameron on 2020-09-12, 14:15

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:
See, this I can work with. If the true lag time is only about a week, keeping the established dates is perfectly reasonable.

Yeah, because knowing that only North Carolina is sending ballots in, knowing Sept 30th to November 3rd is 34 days, and no one is forced to mailing a ballot before a debate was really tough. Rolling Eyes
I feel no shame in admitting that I have not committed to memory which states send out ballots on which date. I'm sure you've got it all down pat, though, so congrats on that.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 14:37

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Yeah, because knowing that only North Carolina is sending ballots in, knowing Sept 30th to November 3rd is 34 days, and no one is forced to mailing a ballot before a debate was really tough. Rolling Eyes
I feel no shame in admitting that I have not committed to memory which states send out ballots on which date. I'm sure you've got it all down pat, though, so congrats on that.

I don't. But I did know only NC was mailing them now and the first debate is the 29th. Wink
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Post by The Pantry on 2020-09-12, 15:05

kingstonlake wrote:
Cameron wrote:
I feel no shame in admitting that I have not committed to memory which states send out ballots on which date. I'm sure you've got it all down pat, though, so congrats on that.

I don't. But I did know only NC was mailing them now and the first debate is the 29th. Wink
You haven't answered the original question.
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Post by kingstonlake on 2020-09-12, 15:52

The Pantry wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I don't. But I did know only NC was mailing them now and the first debate is the 29th. Wink
You haven't answered the original question.

I'll definitely lose sleep over that.
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Post by The Pantry on 2020-09-12, 17:25

You can't, without crying.
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