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Dueling Realities

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Post by steveschneider 2020-11-20, 12:27

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Both sides is some bullshit. Tell me how both sides are wrong.

There was proven interference from foreign powers in the 2016 election and no one tried to overturn the results.

Half the damn country accepts a corrupt racist liar as their deity because they care more about their own pocketbooks than moral decency. There's no both sides. There's right and there's wrong. I've never been political. I became engaged because it became right vs. wrong.

If you were to believe that this part was manufactured bullshit, then you could swing that all the republicans are doing now is the same thing the democrats did, manufacturing bullshit to undermine the president. I suppose that’s how you could come up with a both sides take and how you can justify it in your head if you’re a republican.

The problem is, the belief that the bolded part up above is bullshit is wrong. Which invalidates the whole thing, but if you’re going to believe that it’s both sides or that republicans are even a little justified, then you can’t think that

With regards to the 2020 election alone, Brian Stelter put it well about one of the dueling realities....it's a fictional parallel universe and there's nothing real about it. There is a 'both sides' problem though and Nordic is not wrong stating that both sides feel like there's a coup happening. This is exactly the problem that Obama is warning about, we can't function when we have two dueling realities. The other side needs to return to reality because otherwise you just have a completely dysfunctional society.


Last edited by steveschneider on 2020-11-20, 12:48; edited 1 time in total
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher 2020-11-20, 12:36

Steve, that's why I'm more of a centrist I think. I don't believe the approach that I hear from some here and elsewhere about if they're waging war, the left needs to wage war, too. I'm not interested in more division, despite how far gone the right is at this moment in time. I want things to return to center, to return to working with each other. In my opinion the only other option is eventual civil war, not to sound dramatic. And I don't want that.
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Post by steveschneider 2020-11-20, 12:53

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Steve, that's why I'm more of a centrist I think. I don't believe the approach that I hear from some here and elsewhere about if they're waging war, the left needs to wage war, too. I'm not interested in more division, despite how far gone the right is at this moment in time. I want things to return to center, to return to working with each other. In my opinion the only other option is eventual civil war, not to sound dramatic. And I don't want that.

Yeah, I agree...I feel like getting back a sense of normalcy would do everyone some good. I've stated in other threads I would have gone along with a John Kasich or Mitt Romney type of conservative as well if they were running and I felt like they were the best bet to get us there. Out of all of the choices we had I felt like from day one Biden was the best option to get us back on track. It's going to be tough but hopefully we make progress.
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Post by Rocinante 2020-11-20, 13:43

I know Steve’s politics wbh, but I’d sincerely like for you to define to me what a centrist is in your mind. For a prompt , like what’s centrist economic policy in 2021 look like?
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher 2020-11-20, 16:06

Rocinante wrote:I know Steve’s politics wbh, but I’d sincerely like for you to define to me what a centrist is in your mind. For a prompt , like what’s centrist economic policy in 2021 look like?

Good question and maybe it's just a buzz word I picked. I'm not a policy guy, I don't wade that deep into these territories. I'm more of a right and wrong guy. I definitely lean pretty hard left socially and fiscally I don't really give a shit, take my taxes and spend them wisely. My top priorities are pretty much all men are created equal and public education. What I'm expressing is that I'd like to find a way to reign in the non extremists and find a common ground with them so that everyone can get back to fighting over a half percent tax increase or some shit rather than plotting to kidnap and execute the governor for being a power hungry socialist and electing a leader who embraces white supremacists. You raise a good point in that maybe there is no middle ground anymore. I don't know. If there isn't, like I said before, there really isn't an in between - it's either cats and dogs learning to live with one another despite hating each other or a much darker alternative where each side tries to physically wipe the other off of the map. I don't have the solutions all I know is that I don't really wan that.
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Post by Rocinante 2020-11-20, 16:11

I’m not judging you. Everyone wants peace. But one point I’ll make is that trying to find some common ground because the other side is threatening to upend our society sounds a lot like negotiating with terrorists to me.
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Post by Cameron 2020-11-24, 21:06

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Post by Turtleneck 2020-11-24, 21:15

Not even kidding. Came here to post that same video from a different site. It's bonkers.
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Post by Motown Spartan 2020-11-24, 21:30

Cameron wrote:

Fuck his feelings.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher 2020-11-24, 21:48

Love it.

Also I don't know who that Kyle K guy is but he does an out fucking standing job of outlining the dichotomy of the Trump cultists.
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Post by Turtleneck 2020-11-24, 22:40

I hope to never be so heavily invested in and dependent on a candidate that I act like that when they lose an election. They sure do look silly outright worshiping another man like that.
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Post by Motown Spartan 2020-11-24, 22:52

Turtleneck wrote:I hope to never be so heavily invested in and dependent on a candidate that I act like that when they lose an election. They sure do look silly outright worshiping another man like that.

Can you imagine how he is when the Ravens lose?
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Post by MiamiSpartan 2020-11-24, 23:39

Turtleneck wrote:I hope to never be so heavily invested in and dependent on a candidate that I act like that when they lose an election. They sure do look silly outright worshiping another man like that.

It kind of reminds me of how people viewed kings and queens in the middle ages. It isn't just devotion to them, but they think that the kings (or Trump in this case) are better, more worthy humans than them.

Think of the Million (minus 980,000) MAGA March, when those people are out there, having come from great distances in some cases, all just to support Trump. And what does he do? He drives through the crowd, protected inside his car with tons of security, and waves.....on his way to the golf course. What a symbol of just how far above them he feels that he is. And yet they accept it and even love that about him.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher 2020-11-25, 00:57

Did you all listen to the dialogue after the call?

I didn't intend to but that dude just kept hitting nail on head after nail on head to the point that I couldn't navigate away from it.
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Post by Floyd Robertson 2020-11-25, 07:43

The mindset of his believers is really fascinating. Don't get me wrong, it's scary, but fascinating in the same way a train wreck is. This Kyle guy raises the best question, which is, do they know how much they're being lied to but they go along with it anyway because of Trump's personality or do they actually believe the lies? I mean, Trump isn't fighting for them.
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Post by DWags 2020-11-25, 08:40

Floyd Robertson wrote:The mindset of his believers is really fascinating. Don't get me wrong, it's scary, but fascinating in the same way a train wreck is. This Kyle guy raises the best question, which is, do they know how much they're being lied to but they go along with it anyway because of Trump's personality or do they actually believe the lies? I mean, Trump isn't fighting for them.

I think the power of one line he says is really the simple answer.

TRUMP HATES THE SAME PEOPLE THEY HATE.

I always go back to that thought when I think about the amount of people making under 100k with no health insurance that voted for him.
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Post by Turtleneck 2020-11-25, 09:17

[tw]1331596311779545090?s=21[/tw]

Probably all fake accounts, but still made me laugh.
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Post by steveschneider 2020-11-25, 09:24

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:I hope to never be so heavily invested in and dependent on a candidate that I act like that when they lose an election. They sure do look silly outright worshiping another man like that.

It kind of reminds me of how people viewed kings and queens in the middle ages. It isn't just devotion to them, but they think that the kings (or Trump in this case) are better, more worthy humans than them.

Think of the Million (minus 980,000) MAGA March, when those people are out there, having come from great distances in some cases, all just to support Trump. And what does he do? He drives through the crowd, protected inside his car with tons of security, and waves.....on his way to the golf course. What a symbol of just how far above them he feels that he is. And yet they accept it and even love that about him.

I saw an expert on hate groups Amnapour and Company talk about Trump and the hate groups that he adores. The sick twisted irony of it is, most of them ultimately don't like Trump they see him as useful but they can't fully get on board of with him because of their own antisemitism. So there's that side of it too, a good chunk of his worshipers intend to dump him as well. We can categorize this partnership as complicated.
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Post by steveschneider 2020-11-25, 09:28

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Did you all listen to the dialogue after the call?

I didn't intend to but that dude just kept hitting nail on head after nail on head to the point that I couldn't navigate away from it.

He wasn't wrong, I think when he got to the part about 'he hates what they hate' he should have underscored racism. He came out of the gates on day one with 'mexican rapists'. Also, on the Frontline episode on both candidates I was struck by how the crowd at the infamous escalator announcement were all paid. I think they just found them out on 5th Ave, offered $50.00 and a chance to be on tv. He's a master conman.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher 2020-11-25, 09:29

DWags wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:The mindset of his believers is really fascinating. Don't get me wrong, it's scary, but fascinating in the same way a train wreck is. This Kyle guy raises the best question, which is, do they know how much they're being lied to but they go along with it anyway because of Trump's personality or do they actually believe the lies? I mean, Trump isn't fighting for them.

I think the power of one line he says is really the simple answer.

TRUMP HATES THE SAME PEOPLE THEY HATE.

I always go back to that thought when I think about the amount of people making under 100k with no health insurance that voted for him.

Yep I am convinced a big part of why we are where we are is because of exactly this. And I don't mean people of color - I'm not sure if you did or not. I think he described the population that is the focal point of their ire quite well.
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Post by steveschneider 2020-11-25, 09:37

steveschneider wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

It kind of reminds me of how people viewed kings and queens in the middle ages. It isn't just devotion to them, but they think that the kings (or Trump in this case) are better, more worthy humans than them.

Think of the Million (minus 980,000) MAGA March, when those people are out there, having come from great distances in some cases, all just to support Trump. And what does he do? He drives through the crowd, protected inside his car with tons of security, and waves.....on his way to the golf course. What a symbol of just how far above them he feels that he is. And yet they accept it and even love that about him.

I saw an expert on hate groups Amnapour and Company talk about Trump and the hate groups that he adores. The sick twisted irony of it is, most of them ultimately don't like Trump they see him as useful but they can't fully get on board of with him because of their own antisemitism. So there's that side of it too, a good chunk of his worshipers intend to dump him as well. We can categorize this partnership as complicated.

Found the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK8U_WW-6XY

Six minute mark. Bone chilling.
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Post by steveschneider 2020-12-20, 09:41

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ex-cop-allegedly-held-ac-repairman-at-gunpoint-convinced-he-was-voter-fraud-kingpin

Absolutely insane. Read to the bottom and take it in. WBh noted this country has a mental illness problem and he’s not wrong. Living in an alternate reality can’t be good for ones overall well being.
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Post by steveschneider 2021-01-04, 10:05

Powerful piece on 60 Minutes last night about people that have had their lives ruined by social media conspiracies. One person was blamed by conspiracy nutters as the person that brought Covid to China and is responsible for the virus because she had a bike crash at a cycling race in Wuhan just before the virus emerged.

Another was a parent of a Sandy Hook victim that had to put on a wig, fake beard so he wouldn't be recognized. Absolutely insane the amount of death threats these people face and it's disgraceful social media companies don't do more to stop this. Time to regulate?
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Post by steveschneider 2021-01-07, 07:43

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/among-insurrectionists/617580/

Yeah these folks don’t exist on the same planet. I think at the root of it is religion. If you’ll believe in a talking snake, a guy living in a whale, an ark with two of every animal on it, a guy with a beard up in the clouds watching you or hell below then you are probably susceptible to a lot of a crazy shit.
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Post by Turtleneck 2021-01-07, 13:59

This coach's reality got him fired.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2021/01/07/chattanoogas-chris-malone-fired-derogatory-tweet-stacey-abrams/6578432002/
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Post by steveschneider 2021-01-07, 14:23

Sounds like he could get a job being an assistant for Tubberville.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher 2021-01-07, 14:34

Speaking of dual realities, I saw that Orenthal had some thoughts on yesterday's happenings on Twitter.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2021-01-07, 14:37

I lightly beef with the phrase “dueling realities” tbh because I think it lends the maga qanon average person far far more credence than they deserve. Dueling realities suggests that their reality is somehow, well, reality even if just in their subset of people. But there is only one reality. It’s not “reality vs reality” it’s “reality vs the views of a delusional group of cultists who have decided to live their lives imagining boogeymen”
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Post by kingstonlake 2021-01-07, 14:39

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I lightly beef with the phrase “dueling realities” tbh because I think it lends the maga qanon average person far far more credence than they deserve. Dueling realities suggests that their reality is somehow, well, reality even if just in their subset of people. But there is only one reality. It’s not “reality vs reality” it’s “reality vs the views of a delusional group of cultists who have decided to live their lives imagining boogeymen”

That to long of a thread title Travis.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2021-01-07, 14:46

Nah there’s plenty of characters.
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Post by steveschneider 2021-01-07, 15:00

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I lightly beef with the phrase “dueling realities” tbh because I think it lends the maga qanon average person far far more credence than they deserve. Dueling realities suggests that their reality is somehow, well, reality even if just in their subset of people. But there is only one reality. It’s not “reality vs reality” it’s “reality vs the views of a delusional group of cultists who have decided to live their lives imagining boogeymen”

You aren't wrong. Brian Stetler had a commentary video on the 'Dueling Realities' and I lifted it from him. He accurately described one as not being a reality but a reality based on disinformation. It isn't real. But they feel it's real and they believe we are the one that isn't living in reality. It's really fucked up.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher 2021-01-07, 15:18

Are the realities fighting with one another or are there two of them?
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Post by steveschneider 2021-01-07, 15:41

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Are the realities fighting with one another or are there two of them?

"We will find out shortly if today’s insurrection was also a super-spreader event. What I do know, after spending hours sponging up Trumpist paranoia, conspiracism, and cultishness, is that this gathering was not merely an attempted coup but also a mass-delusion event, not something that can be explained adequately through the prism of politics. Its chaos was rooted in psychological and theological phenomena, intensified by eschatological anxiety. One man I interviewed this morning, a resident of Texas who said his name was Don Johnson (I did not trust this to be his name), told me that the country was coming apart, and that this dissolution presaged the End Times. “It’s all in the Bible,” he said. “Everything is predicted. Donald Trump is in the Bible. Get yourself ready.”"

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/among-insurrectionists/617580/
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2021-01-07, 15:50

steveschneider wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I lightly beef with the phrase “dueling realities” tbh because I think it lends the maga qanon average person far far more credence than they deserve. Dueling realities suggests that their reality is somehow, well, reality even if just in their subset of people. But there is only one reality. It’s not “reality vs reality” it’s “reality vs the views of a delusional group of cultists who have decided to live their lives imagining boogeymen”

You aren't wrong. Brian Stetler had a commentary video on the 'Dueling Realities' and I lifted it from him. He accurately described one as not being a reality but a reality based on disinformation. It isn't real. But they feel it's real and they believe we are the one that isn't living in reality. It's really fucked up.

But that doesn’t make what they think a “reality” they’re still just delusional. Anyway it’s just a light beef that I think of when I see the thread title nbd I can move forward with my life now that it’s off my chest.
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Post by steveschneider 2021-01-07, 15:52

Tra
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

You aren't wrong. Brian Stetler had a commentary video on the 'Dueling Realities' and I lifted it from him. He accurately described one as not being a reality but a reality based on disinformation. It isn't real. But they feel it's real and they believe we are the one that isn't living in reality. It's really fucked up.

But that doesn’t make what they think a “reality” they’re still just delusional. Anyway it’s just a light beef that I think of when I see the thread title nbd I can move forward with my life now that it’s off my chest.

Travis, give me a title and I'll gladly edit it.
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Post by Travis of the Cosmos 2021-01-07, 16:38

Oh no steve I don’t care enough for any of that. Just a random rant. don’t worry yourself.
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Post by Rocinante 2021-01-07, 17:13

How about “Dueling Banjos”
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Post by steveschneider 2021-01-07, 20:04

They just interviewed Robert Moore on CNN. He did that powerful ITV reporting yesterday. A good chunk of the interview he talked about what a hold the belief of conspiracies had on the people he talked to. He noted they were looking for Pedophiles.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher 2021-01-07, 20:15

I still say the realities are two in nature rather than fighting one another.
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Post by Rocinante 2021-01-07, 23:01

steveschneider wrote:They just interviewed Robert Moore on CNN. He did that powerful ITV reporting yesterday. A good chunk of the interview he talked about what a hold the belief of conspiracies had on the people he talked to. He noted they were looking for Pedophiles.

Their best bet is the trailer next door to theirs.
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