What or how much do you think Trump offers Shirkey and Chatfield to throw the Michigan election to Trump?

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The electoral college should be completely abandoned. The election process for the house of representatives and Senate have adjusted criteria that ignore popular vote and or have weighted representation. The third branch of government should be a check on those two and exclusively rely on popular vote.

kingstonlake wrote:The electoral college should be completely abandoned. The election process for the house of representatives and Senate have adjusted criteria that ignore popular vote and or have weighted representation. The third branch of government should be a check on those two and exclusively rely on popular vote.

Few western democracies elect their head of government by popular vote. The ones that do are primarily Latin American countries, and their governments aren't exactly models of stability over the last century or so. Canada and most of Europe have their heads of government elected by the legislature (head of state is different, as some are monarchies and many heads of state are largely ceremonial positions, so how heads of state are chosen is all over the map....no pun intended). As such, no one ever even knows what the popular vote is, because the people don't even cast votes for the head of government. Not that I'm saying that they are a model of perfection by any means either, just that it isn't like we are some outlier by not electing the head of government by popular vote. And I definitely prefer an elector college system to the legislature choosing the president.

I understand the argument that you're making about a popularly elected president balancing the House and Senate. And that is a good point, as I'm all about balance. But in that case, I would want the president's power as head of government to be severely scaled back. And honestly, I want the president's power as head of government to be severely scaled back regardless (I've often railed against executive orders here).

South American democracies aren’t stable because the US keeps fucking with them.

Yeah I’m not so sure on the implying that South American country’s politics are unstable due to deciding the election via popular vote thing. And by not so sure I mean that’s nonsense

The Michigan Capitol is being overrun with Trumptards

Call in the National guard!!!

Serious.

Watching the certification meeting. Shirkey will not be certifying. No way.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Yeah I’m not so sure on the implying that South American country’s politics are unstable due to deciding the election via popular vote thing. And by not so sure I mean that’s nonsense

I just mean that while they are examples from the Western world, they aren't exactly examples to look up to.

Not many developed countries have a popular vote that would be a good example to point to. But that's not to say that it can't work. The larger point, again, just being that it's not some outlier for the US to not have a popular vote decide the head of government. And I only point that out because people often act like it's this incomprehensible notion.

kingstonlake wrote:Watching the certification meeting. Shirkey will not be certifying. No way.

Is it up to him? I thought it's decided by 4 canvassers, none of which are Shirkey?

Rocinante wrote:South American democracies aren’t stable because the US keeps fucking with them.

This ain't the 1970s anymore.

Peru is now on their 3rd president in the last WEEK. 4th in 4 years. I'm not aware of anything that we've done to cause that.

Gonna be 3-1. Everything everyone has mentioned, there is no reason whatsoever not to certify. Shirky will vote no because he's getting a lifetime supply of Trump steaks.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Gonna be 3-1. Everything everyone has mentioned, there is no reason whatsoever not to certify. Shirky will vote no because he's getting a lifetime supply of Trump steaks.

He doesn't get a vote, it's the guy named Shinkle that is a Trump stooge.

Yep. 3-1. The other R talking right now is saying the board has no authority to hold an independent audit.

Floyd Robertson wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Gonna be 3-1. Everything everyone has mentioned, there is no reason whatsoever not to certify. Shirky will vote no because he's getting a lifetime supply of Trump steaks.

He doesn't get a vote, it's the guy named Shinkle that is a Trump stooge.

Shinkle, yeah. That's who I meant.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Yep. 3-1. The other R talking right now is saying the board has no authority to hold an independent audit.

This guy, sounds like a good dude.

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MiamiSpartan wrote:

Rocinante wrote:South American democracies aren’t stable because the US keeps fucking with them.

This ain't the 1970s anymore.

Peru is now on their 3rd president in the last WEEK. 4th in 4 years. I'm not aware of anything that we've done to cause that.

I don’t know as much as I should about South American politics, but I thought the trouble in Peru is a right wing party that is undermining the will of the people who (gasp. Amazing I know) are voting for a more socially just society. That sounds an awful lot like what’s been happening for decades in governments down there, backed by American money. Without digging in, I have no immediate evidence of American “free market” fuckery, but I’d bet there’s a good chance it’s there.

Sorry, not Shirky. But yeah. Gonna be 3-1. The vice chair seems pretty up front on what his actual duties are vs what some think their duties should be.

OK I stopped listening once the Trump doucher started going off the rails about threats. Yeah, that's deplorable, but it doesn't matter to the task at hand.

Gonna get certified today and then they'll hold an audit. That's fine. There is no fucking way an audit is going close a gap of 150,000 votes. Trump REALLY should be conceding at this point but he won't because he simply can never admit defeat. Fuck him. I hope his fat ass gets dragged out of the White House on Jan. 20th.

A good point was made in this meeting though. It's ass-backward to have to certify results before an audit can take place. That said, fuck off team Trump. This state wasn't even close.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:OK I stopped listening once the Trump doucher started going off the rails about threats. Yeah, that's deplorable, but it doesn't matter to the task at hand.

Gonna get certified today and then they'll hold an audit. That's fine. There is no fucking way an audit is going close a gap of 150,000 votes. Trump REALLY should be conceding at this point but he won't because he simply can never admit defeat. Fuck him. I hope his fat ass gets dragged out of the White House on Jan. 20th.

A good point was made in this meeting though. It's ass-backward to have to certify results before an audit can take place. That said, fuck off team Trump. This state wasn't even close.

I feel like it is 80% because "that woman" is the governor, and so Michigan became personal for him.

The law says “shall “ certify. Not “may” certify. Fuck that fuck who is voting no. He doesn’t have the right.

Just certified. 3-0 one abstain

Just turned on the live feed (I assume it was live as I couldnt find the results anywhere). Shrinkle abstained, the othere three voted yes. So 3-0 or 3-1, don't think it matters.

All four voted yes to a recount, which was going to happen anyway (I think Trump had 2 days after certification to request a recount).

One observer noted that a republican observer wanted a whole table off votes thrown out because the counter wasn't wearing their name tag.

Trump's America....

Are there any red states that were won by a narrow margin? If so there was big time fraud in those states. They shouldn't certify.

During her certification Julie Matuzak (D) said Michigan needs to "modernize" their voter game. I giggled.

Aaron Van Langevelde You are the weakest link.

Would not want to be on Trump's staff tonight and I believe we are seeing the first fissures in the Trump Family attempt to take over the GOP.

One of the key GOP talking points seems to center on 40,000 1st time voters in Wayne Co who all supported Biden.

They find it impossible to believe that after seeing four years of Trump's America they took steps to have their voices heard. Talk about being tone deaf.